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"K13S "Tires Different tire-brands and suggestions

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  #1  
Old 11-26-2014, 05:25 PM
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What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Running a 2015 K1300s here. I do take it to triple-digit speeds a lot, not unfrequently over 130mph.

Stock tires: Metzler Sportec M3's.

For 30 years I rode a K100RS, and I found the stock recommended tire pressures too low. First, in terms of heating up more than 10% with aggressive or high-speed riding. I ended up running at 42/50 a lot, Metzler Laser on front, ME99 on back (I think). The tires would wear out first in the center, but then I have to do a lot of (high-speed) straightaways before I get to a decent set of corners. I found the higher pressure in the front significantly improved steering precision.

Enter the K1300s. At 36psi the front seems to wander a fair amount. Perhaps I'm just not used to the handling enough (2000 miles), or the Hossack front is showing its downside, or there are better-tracking tires to try.

What are other riders using for front air pressure? Anyone else feel like steering precision improves with a few more PSI? (40/42, and I ride two-up a lot).
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

The recommendation from BMW is 36/42. But of course that is for maximum longevity. I believe that most folks here advocate for slightly less (for one-up riding) in order to warm the tires a bit more for better cornering traction. At the track, the instructor had me reduce it to 32/32. That seemed to work great, but the tires would wear too fast at those pressures. So as a compromise between wear and traction I have been running 34/38 for normal one-up riding.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:53 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Without extra loads, no matter what tyre, this is the wise list...




Quote:
The tires would wear out first in the center, but then I have to do a lot of (high-speed)
Then is not problem of pressure, look for another tyre like Michelin Pilot road 2 or Metzeler Z8 they have hard center.


Quote:
or the Hossack front is showing its downside, or there are better-tracking tires to try.
May be is like you say, in noticeable the difference when the front tyre drops 5 psi in handling.


Quote:
I do take it to triple-digit speeds a lot, not unfrequently over 130mph.

Congratulations!, well, that speed eats tires...
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:43 PM
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Again: tire pressures for best handling?

I'm asking about steering precision.

I think the bike wanders a bit at 36psi front. I tried 38 and 40 and liked both of them better. Anyone else?

I'm surprised a bit about lowering pressure to get more grip on the track. With my previous bikes, lowering pressure would have made them very hard to steer precisely in the curves.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:56 PM
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Re: Again: tire pressures for best handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
I'm asking about steering precision.

I think the bike wanders a bit at 36psi front. I tried 38 and 40 and liked both of them better. Anyone else?

I'm surprised a bit about lowering pressure to get more grip on the track. With my previous bikes, lowering pressure would have made them very hard to steer precisely in the curves.
Craig:

I have not noticed any wandering on any of my KS's I had a 2007 K1200S and 2 K1300S's.

I weigh 160 lbs. almost always ride solo - almost always have the panniers on.

The recommended 36/42 works well with most tires. I have upped the front pressure to 38 when running PR4's - that tire is ribbed and the extra few psi helps slow down the cupping.

On the track lowering the pressure from the factory settings is the way to go - much better traction. Sure you may lose tire life - but on the track we are looking for best performance.

The big problem with the KS's they are somewhat heavy - long wheelbase - steering rake more severe than most bikes. These bikes tend to steer heavy/slow.

You ride two up and you run very high speed for extended periods of time - this well kill tire life.

Also lowering pressures will certainly affect the ride two up - also have to be careful too low and rim damage could occur - two up weight lower pressure and hit a pothole might be bad.

What I have experienced on all my KS's after about 2K miles the front end really starts to feel heavy/slow - but looking at the front tire plenty of tread left and minimal noticeable tire irregularities. By 3K miles it just plain bothers me. My last set of Q3's I did go 3K miles but the tires were shot. PR4's get better mileage but they also start feeling funny after a few K miles.

Many have installed the 31mm dog bones to help the steering - makes it much quicker.

My guess is the tires are worn enough especially the front that at those high continuous speeds the front is moving around. Also if you have the panniers on at those speeds and the weight is not distributed perfectly that may be your problem. Bags on running those speeds could be tricky for sure.

Don't know if I answered your questions or not - hope this helps you.
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:30 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Just do like you have done in the past. It is a subjective thing. Experiment with up or down a few and feel what you perceive is best. Everyone rides, weights and carrys different final weights. You are the best judge. Oh, and also different tires also like different psi's.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:21 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Well I must be the odd duck...

I found my K12S steering kinda mushy and well, not inspiring at all.. 36/36

Went to Metzler Z8's & kinda the same.. Put my pressure at 43/40 transformed the handling.. I too run big numbers on mine often enough.. Also lowered the pressure by 3lbs F&R for any type of twisties..

Try it.. You can alway's put it back to where you were..

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Old 12-03-2014, 08:46 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I hover between 215 & 230lbs. I have usually gotten good handling and mileage with 36-38psi in front, and 40psi in the rear for sub triple digit speed use. But the physics of mass, momentum and subsequent friction can have have much to say after 100mph.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:08 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FR1956
I hover between 215 & 230lbs. I have usually gotten good handling and mileage with 36-38psi in front, and 40psi in the rear for sub triple digit speed use. But the physics of mass, momentum and subsequent friction can have have much to say after 100mph.

If you ride more than 100 Mph, is more important the balancing than the pressure, good balancing (no more than 5 gr.) is very noticeable after 130 Mi/h...
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:48 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
If you ride more than 100 Mph, is more important the balancing than the pressure, good balancing (no more than 5 gr.) is very noticeable after 130 Mi/h...

True that; Bernardo. If I was commonly traveling at 130+mph even "I" would pay to have my tires dynamically balanced by a certified 'expert' rather than simply rely on that gorilla snot; "Slime".

I think however that the rapid wear spirited K1600 owners experience with their tires & brake pads is a good example of Mass x Velocity = toast
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:50 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I've gotten the advice from a couple of mechanics to increase pressure by 4 lbs esoecially in the front tire to reduce cupping

So run 40 front 46 rear

I just changed the front tire to the pr3 and put 40 and 42 rear
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:46 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulla10
I've gotten the advice from a couple of mechanics to increase pressure by 4 lbs esoecially in the front tire to reduce cupping

So run 40 front 46 rear

I just changed the front tire to the pr3 and put 40 and 42 rear
Hola Carlos

I think is a bit excesive. Tires are designed to bring a good balance between weight (bike and/or rider/pillion), steering geometry, suspensión and tyre wear, specially if it's multi compound like new designs.

I think this balance is achieved with the recommended pressures from BMW and the tyre specification, usually coincidents.

For example, if you have 40 on front, and ride alone, you have harder suspension, and the tire touches the road with less Surface and the tyre will wear most on the center. As advantage you'll have better and softer steering.

Definitely every rider likes and rides the bike in different ways, the advantage is you can "play" with pressures until find the most suitable for you
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:08 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulla10
I've gotten the advice from a couple of mechanics to increase pressure by 4 lbs esoecially in the front tire to reduce cupping

So run 40 front 46 rear

I just changed the front tire to the pr3 and put 40 and 42 rear
my mechanic says over inflation causes cupping. Less air than spec is better.
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:22 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Craig, my advice would be to do nothing much until you are rid of those horrible M3's. They are not a good guide for Tyres in general.

I tried a lot of pressure combinations but in the end just stuck with 42/36. Sometimes it's you who has to adjust, not the bike.
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:08 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I'll need a few rides up to Prescott (lots of curves) to get a good feel for handling changes with tire pressure. I have a new set of Pirelli Angel GT's waiting to be installed next month that I'll experiment on. (And hopefully they will get more miles on them than the M3's. I'm down to the wear bars on the rear at 2700 miles.)

It may be the wear, but lately I feel a distinct reluctance of the front to turn at low speeds. I'll figure that one out soon as I readjust the pressure in it. I'm at about 35 front, 38 rear now that it has cooled off.

Tire pressures used to be hugely important to handling on my older BMW's. Stock pressures, regardless of brand, just didn't give good steering precision in curves.
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Old 04-27-2018, 02:58 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I used the search so am bumping this back up

I have a track day coming up in a week and a half. On any other bike I’d drop 4lbs front and rear, but as heavy as the K13S is I’m unsure. Any suggestions for a track day?
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:32 PM
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Re: Again: tire pressures for best handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
I'm asking about steering precision.

I think the bike wanders a bit at 36psi front. I tried 38 and 40 and liked both of them better. Anyone else?

I'm surprised a bit about lowering pressure to get more grip on the track. With my previous bikes, lowering pressure would have made them very hard to steer precisely in the curves.


I'm running 38/42 cold and feel that the drop in with the PR4's is improved. Moving to Angel GT's mid summer.
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:28 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I agree, get rid of the OEM Metzeler Sportec M3s...very wooden feeling and not confidence inspiring. Have Pirelli Angel GTs (Non A-Spec) on my K1300S.

Tried the OEM recommended PSI (36fr / 42rr) and felt the steering was cumbersome and made the bike want to stand up (go straight) in corners when applying the brakes.

Raised the front to 38 PSI and suddenly the steering is light and leans over with much less effort. Also stays leaned over when braking in a curve. Stayed with 42 PSI in the rear.

I also have Riser Plates and highly recommend them if you tend to be aggressive in corners - totally transformed the handling for the better!
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:42 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

You want sharper response buy sports orientated tires, tho ones that talk track and street would be an example. The Angles and others (PR3/4) are touring slanted tires. You may be asking too much from the K bike as it is also leaning towards the touring end of the neural spectrum. A set of suspension lift plates will accomplish much of what you are looking for.
I also have to add to the OP (who is probably long gone) for readers thought reference, setting the rear tire to 50 psi cold and riding in Arizona on fairly hot pavement seems like trouble or short tire life. I don't even like going past 50 psi to set the bead on tire installation.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:34 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I run about 40/42. I say about because my readout is lower than the gas station and hand pressure gauge inuse, which both concur, about 2-3 psi higher than the tire pressure sensors.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:42 PM
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Re: Again: tire pressures for best handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
I'm asking about steering precision.I think the bike wanders a bit at 36psi front. I tried 38 and 40 and liked both of them better. Anyone else?

I agree, I like the feel at 39/42. Much lower pressure and it feels like I'm riding through sand. I have Angel GTs.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:16 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

MY mechanic at the BMW shop, he had been there over 30 years, said to put the fronts at 40 and the rear at 45.

I am running the Metzler Roadtech 01
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:53 AM
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Question Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Another thought.

Raising the back of the bike or lowering the front changes the steering angle.

Steeper equals sharper handling, flatter equals more stability.

The above assumes head shake is not an issue.

Raising and lowering can be done through suspension and/or tire pressure adjustments.

Tire profiles could also be considered.

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Old 05-17-2018, 01:51 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Interesting to hear people take the K1300s to the track. My K is only a street bike and even then I run lower pressures 32/32 for heat and grip. I find it works well but as it has been mentioned I expect the tires (Angel GT) to wear faster.

I ride advance pace on the track with a dedicated (not BMW) track bike and track tire pressures are much lower than street. In mixed weather I've used PR3's with 28 front / 26 rear cold tire pressure. On sunny days i'm on Pirelli slicks. If I did put my K on the track, I would start at 32/32 and adjust from there based on grip and tire wear/tears.

For those of you running the K1300s on the track, how competitive are you especially in the corners?
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:45 PM
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Question Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

So at 130 mph, do you use leak proof valve stem caps?

Assuming vertical valve stems...
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Always best to use leak proof caps. But any speed the K1300S will do is not enough to bleed air through the tire valve stem (assuming 40 PSI in the tire). Below is the calcs discussion.
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=248379
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:15 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stony
Interesting to hear people take the K1300s to the track. My K is only a street bike and even then I run lower pressures 32/32 for heat and grip. I find it works well but as it has been mentioned I expect the tires (Angel GT) to wear faster.

I ride advance pace on the track with a dedicated (not BMW) track bike and track tire pressures are much lower than street. In mixed weather I've used PR3's with 28 front / 26 rear cold tire pressure. On sunny days i'm on Pirelli slicks. If I did put my K on the track, I would start at 32/32 and adjust from there based on grip and tire wear/tears.

For those of you running the K1300s on the track, how competitive are you especially in the corners?


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Old 06-04-2018, 02:48 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I would love to get another K bike back on the track.
With magnesium wheels, some homemade riser plates and an LSL handlebar riser kit I flipped upside down to get a more aggressive ergo, I felt I could wrestle the bike around a track pretty nicely. 190/55 rear tire helped. Yeah, And I pretty much stripped all the bodywork off an R model. Damn, I was stupid.

Yes, it took a little more muscle, but with the lightweight wheels and jacked up rear end, it was not as bad as you would think.


I was only running intermediate pace at the time. I would have loved to have stuck with it and see if it would have taken me to an advanced pace. In my mind, there is absolutely NO reason why not. Advanced pace is still not race pace and race pace isn't at the limit riding. I thought the duolever excelled at a 9/10 pace. I wish it had chain drive and 4 inches chopped off the wheelbase, though. And 50 less pounds.


Someday!!!! when I get bored of the gixxer seven fiddy I'm currently tracking. GAWD! the torque and power of that 1200 was awesome. And it would not run wide on exit. OR get the front end nervous when you stand hard on the brakes.
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:40 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Deleted thread drift.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:11 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Sorry if I went off the reservation...

30-32 psi for the street. I can't push hard enough on the street to feel a huge difference.
Track 30-32 Hot front. 28-30 Hot rear.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:42 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Since I started this thread, I've gone through several sets of tires and put 19,000 miles on the K1300s. The M3's only lasted about 2700 miles. I'm on my 4th set of Angel GT's now, though I replaced 2 sets early. (One puncture, one change before going on a long trip).


What I've found is 38/42 works well for me. I've tried various pressures in the rear, and I generally don't find much difference. The front is another story - 2 psi up from 36 makes a big difference in the curves.


I see comments through this thread that make me think people have misunderstood just what I was writing about in terms of 'steering precision'. Here's what I mean.
-It's not moving around at high speed/straight lines. The bike is rock solid at high speeds, probably due to long wheelbase and aerodynamics.
-It's not a matter of maximum traction.
-It *IS* a matter of the bike going exactly where I want it to in a curve. When I ride, there are many times I feel there is one safest path through a corner with sand/gravel in it, and that is often about 1 tire width wide. I want to be able to point the bike exactly on that line and have the bike go exactly there. With 38 PSI in the front, (or a bit more), this happens. With 36psi in the front (or less), the bike may or may not end up on the line I want.



Angel GT's rock, by the way. Extremely confidence inspiring leaned over when new to about 3000 miles or so. After that, they are flat-spotted enough for me to resist, then fall into, tight turns and make low-speed cornering somewhat unpredictable. (Not a problem if pushing it and going from sidewall to sidewall where I'm back on mostly-unused tread again.)
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:56 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

What causes a tire not to track where it is steered (or be perceived not to track) with 2 psi less pressure I wonder.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:43 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

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Originally Posted by jcw
What causes a tire not to track where it is steered (or be perceived not to track) with 2 psi less pressure I wonder.


I have always thought changing tire pressure changes the tire profile as well as its temperature. More pressure rounds out the tire and lets it run cooler.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:44 AM
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Question Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
Always best to use leak proof caps. But any speed the K1300S will do is not enough to bleed air through the tire valve stem (assuming 40 PSI in the tire). Below is the calcs discussion.
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=248379

Not sure that a definitive answer is concluded by the end of the thread.

But agree, a metal cap with an o-ring is advisable for all motorcycle wheel valve stems.

A defective valve stem can cause a leak even parked.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

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Originally Posted by DOA
I have always thought changing tire pressure changes the tire profile as well as its temperature. More pressure rounds out the tire and lets it run cooler.

Sidewall flex generates heat.
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:10 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

I weigh 180, run Pilot Power front (great tire $90), PR4rear, have bags on most of the time, ride agressively most of time, avoid slabs, confront potholes, and have been running 39f/41r. I have been using this method/tire combo for the time I owned my K12S and now K13S (13 years). Before the PR4, I ran the 3 and 2. Virtually no front cupping. Rarely using brakes helps reduce front tire cupping.
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:27 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
Since I started this thread, I've gone through several sets of tires and put 19,000 miles on the K1300s. The M3's only lasted about 2700 miles. I'm on my 4th set of Angel GT's now, though I replaced 2 sets early. (One puncture, one change before going on a long trip).


What I've found is 38/42 works well for me. I've tried various pressures in the rear, and I generally don't find much difference. The front is another story - 2 psi up from 36 makes a big difference in the curves.


I see comments through this thread that make me think people have misunderstood just what I was writing about in terms of 'steering precision'. Here's what I mean.
-It's not moving around at high speed/straight lines. The bike is rock solid at high speeds, probably due to long wheelbase and aerodynamics.
-It's not a matter of maximum traction.
-It *IS* a matter of the bike going exactly where I want it to in a curve. When I ride, there are many times I feel there is one safest path through a corner with sand/gravel in it, and that is often about 1 tire width wide. I want to be able to point the bike exactly on that line and have the bike go exactly there. With 38 PSI in the front, (or a bit more), this happens. With 36psi in the front (or less), the bike may or may not end up on the line I want.



Angel GT's rock, by the way. Extremely confidence inspiring leaned over when new to about 3000 miles or so. After that, they are flat-spotted enough for me to resist, then fall into, tight turns and make low-speed cornering somewhat unpredictable. (Not a problem if pushing it and going from sidewall to sidewall where I'm back on mostly-unused tread again.)

Ditto to everything you said as it mirrors my experiences almost exactly!

BTW, I was riding my K1300S in your State last month on Rt. 191 (old "Devils Highway") going north between Morenci and Alpine...what a nice stretch of swervy Tarmac!
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:40 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
Ditto to everything you said as it mirrors my experiences almost exactly!

BTW, I was riding my K1300S in your State last month on Rt. 191 (old "Devils Highway") going north between Morenci and Alpine...what a nice stretch of swervy Tarmac!




I haven't been on that road for many, many years - and never on a motorcycle! I'll have to remedy that, but it's a 525 mile round trip for me, and that's pretty tough to do in one day on roads like that. I actually haven't been on the road since 1981, in a Honda Civic Wagon.


Did you see any wildlife? I came upon the occasional herd of havalina in some of the curves.
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:41 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
Did you see any wildlife? I came upon the occasional herd of havalina in some of the curves.

No we didn't encounter any wildlife on the road...just saw roadkill and a Wrecker was picking up an H-D on one of the curves about halfway through. He said it was the 2nd wrecked Motorcycle he'd picked up in the last 2 weeks. No one else was there, not even the H-D Rider, as he or she was already taken away by Ambulance. The Wrecker Driver had a nice Siberian Husky sitting in the Cab.

So what is a "havalina"? We don't have any critters by that name here in the Corn & Bean Fields.

Lastly, we left Mesa AZ in the morning and arrived in Glenwood NM before dusk.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:37 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Havelina is a type of wild pig. A herd in a corner can ruin your whole day.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:14 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Not a pig except similar in appearance. Up to 2 feet tall, 3 feet long, 35-55 pounds. In family groups of 10-50 animals. Not something to meet around a corner.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:20 PM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Headed to the track again next week and realized I never shared my experience about the last time. At the recommendation of the guy everyone said was the on track tire expert, I went with 32 from and 28 rear. He only gave me those numbers after asking me the bike and what tires I was running. Handled great but more physically challenging due to the size of the bike. I’m used to riding the S1000RR and the weight difference was clear, but I was still able to put in similar lap times, I just had to work harder.

Most importantly I was faster than all my friends
They were not pleased being passed by “the old guy on a shaft drive cruiser”
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:46 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

What are you taking this time?
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:39 AM
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Re: What tire pressures for best (or good) handling?

Quote:
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What are you taking this time?

My K13S is all I have
The S1000RR is California superbike school’s. I’ll be a student again on Tuesday with their bike and a corner Marshall for them on Thursday. I get to ride some sessions on my bike in exchange for corner marshaling for free.
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