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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 07-28-2018, 11:33 PM
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canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Thanks for the welcome messages. I acquired a 09 k1300s with 7100 miles on the odometer.

I have installed led lights from rigid industries, the can bus system will not turn the lights off.
I used the gps plug on the head for power by installing a repair plug and soldered a sae plug to the end. I checked system with one light and the can bus worked fine. Turning the key on activated the light and turning the key off, the system waited 60 seconds and turned the light off. After installing the second light, the can bus will not turn the lights off. I have put a simple switch in line for now. The led lights draw just over one amp each. The circuit should handle that low power.

Any solutions, my dealers service desk did not have a solution.


What a great bike, I have repaired loose mirrors but no real problems.


Thanks third gear
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:17 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Get a relay wired to the battery for power and use the GPS feed as the signal to turn on and off. If the dealer techs canít think of this you need a better dealer.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:28 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Whatí Iíve noticed on my 08 K12GT is that that GPS plug has some programming in the ZFE, where if the bike acknowledges that the GPS is on and my starcom is on, that port will remain powered until I turn off one or the other. This is beneficial for filling up at the gas station allowing the aftermarket electronics to stay on rather than rebooting every time. If I donít have my starcom plugged in or unplug it at anytime after the bike is off then 30seconds later the gps will loose power.

The hunch is that the accessory port is not sensitive enough to stay on with just a low current draw but when the draw increases the power will stay on. Iím using the gps port under the headstock and the accessory port on the left side by my foot and this seems to be true for both.

Iíve had my bike for since it was new with the same setup and this observation is very repeatable.
Hope this helps
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:29 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

If the power draw is that low, why not interrupt the power to the main headlight and jump onto that circuit?
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:59 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Connect like this, then you can dim the led as you like, and you get full blast when turning on high beam, lights only turn on when low beam is on.

This is the dimmer i used, they are available all over the internet, for bort RGB and single light, with or without moeds etc etc. I used for single light and on/off, so no blinking and that crap.
https://www.biltema.se/fritid/husvag...ine-2000034845
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File Type: jpg Connecting LED for both drl and highbeam function.jpg (87.2 KB, 16 views)
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:16 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Thanks for all the suggestions, my dealer did discuss the use of a relay while using the gps as a trigger. The can bus will work properly with one light in circuit but not two, the problem does not appear to be to little draw but too much? any suggestions to correct can bus issue, the easiest solution is the relay, that just requires another wire. I guess that I was hoping to solve the can bus issue with a resister, perhaps the adjustable led thingy will work.


Thanks for the suggestions
third gear.
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:00 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Ok gentlemen take notes. Here is how it works:

The GPS output port is shared in ZFE with the external Aux-port on the bike.
The Aux port is made to serve two purposes.
--Handle small extarnal loads
--and serve as a connector for a battery charger.

When a dedicated charger is connected to the Aux-port, the port will open up, even with no key in ignition, and will allow for the battery to be charged. This opening is handled by the ZFE.


So how does ZFE know that there is a battery charger connected to the Aux-port?

The dedicated charger applies a smal voltage to the input port, and this smal voltage applied to the port will signal to ZFE to open up, and the Aux-port is connected to the battery, and so is the GPS-plug. (none-dedicated chargers usually will not apply any voltage before they senses correct polarity)

So far, so good.

Then, what is the problem?

The problem occures when you connect a device to the Aux-port/GPS-plug that has electronics such as voltage regulator. Such electronics use a capacitor on its input for noise surpression.
What happens is that when the 30 seconds after ignition has been switched off are up and ZFE cuts power to the Aux-port/GPS-plug, the capacitor is still charged, and now, the capacitor will supply this voltage backwards to the AUX-plug. ZFE senses that there is a voltage on the plug after its been switched off and opens up the port again. This opening up again means that the capacitor voltage is kept allive, and every time ZFE tries to shut down the port it is opened up again due to the voltage from the capacitor.

You can fix the problem in two ways:
-- Use the port to control a relay, as the relay will drop its votage when the port is closed.
-- Use a diode in series with the load, as the diode will stop the feedback of voltage from the capacitor to the port, so a closed port will not re-open until ignition comes back on.


Why did this work for OP with one LED, but not with two LEDs?

Here is my educated guess:
The LEDs have electronics that drops the voltage to the LED. I can only think that the capacitor in one LED did not have enough power to keep ZFE open, but when two where connected in parallell, this was enough to keep the port open
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:20 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

The diode sounds like a good fix. I am sgt Shultz (I know nothing) about diodes. My electrical knowledge is pretty much limited to a 1960 HS class, transistors were the hot thing. MY question is can I solder the diode into the existing circuit, if yes what type of diode does it require?


I think you have solved the mystery of one verse two, now for the fun part. how to install a diode. Does it require a ground?

Yours Third gear
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:59 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Gear
The diode sounds like a good fix. I am sgt Shultz (I know nothing) about diodes. My electrical knowledge is pretty much limited to a 1960 HS class, transistors were the hot thing. MY question is can I solder the diode into the existing circuit, if yes what type of diode does it require?


I think you have solved the mystery of one verse two, now for the fun part. how to install a diode. Does it require a ground?

Yours Third gear

No, it does not require a ground.

A diode is like a one-way check-valve for electricity. Connected correctly it allows the current to flow from positive to negative, but blocks for any flow in opposite direction.

Which diode to chose depends on the amount of current that flows. There are diodes that handles only 100mA, and there are diodes that handles several 100A, the difference lays in size.
For a set of LEDs, and the fact that the port will not handle more than 5A, a diode that handles 6A will do, such as these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pack-6A10-Diodes-6-amp-1000-volt-Quick-and-free-shipping-from-USA/132114125153?epid=2180730789&hash=item1ec29d9161%3Ag%3A4UwAA OSwSlBYuYw5&_sacat=0&_nkw=dide+6A&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDe sc=0

Due to a voltage drop over the diode, there will be some heat, and therefor it is best if you are able to connect one diode to each LED cable. It is simply connected to the + cable leading to the LED, that is, cut the cable, solder the diode inbetween the cut and cover it with a heat shrink tube. (if you want to be realy pro, chose a heat shrink tube with glue inside. This will waterproof the joint)

If there is a seperate regulator for the LED (rather than built into the lamp) then you must connect the diode between supply + and the regulator, and if one regulator handles two LEDs, one diode will have to do. Try it out and check that it does not gets too warm. If so, use two LEDs in paralell).

Remember that what you try to obtain is to block any reverse voltage being fed back to the Aux-port/GPS-connector.

There is a gray band on the diode body. Make sure the grey band is closest to the LED. If you screw up and connect in reverse order, nothing will be damaged, it's just that the diode will block flow in the wrong direction.
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:21 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

The mystery develops. Rigid industries tech dept. says no capacitors in their system. IT
does have a board for regulation of voltage, They had no idea what is going on, they said it should work the way I have wired. They recommended a relay be installed. I will go to plan B.

Thanks to all for your ideas and suggestions.

Yours, Third gear. Happy trails to you.
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:53 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Whether by design or accident, it seems that the Nav feed latches on if you draw more than a certain current from it. You could just fit a switch in line and turn the lights off manually, but a relay is probably the better option anyway since that would leave the 5A or so available for its intended purpose - the Sat Nav - while you have your lights on.
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:15 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Gear
The mystery develops. Rigid industries tech dept. says no capacitors in their system. IT
does have a board for regulation of voltage, They had no idea what is going on, they said it should work the way I have wired. They recommended a relay be installed. I will go to plan B.

Thanks to all for your ideas and suggestions.

Yours, Third gear. Happy trails to you.
Voltage regulators use capacitors to maintain i steady current......
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:08 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

I may be wrong but as far as I know the small "christmas tree light" in the headlight assembly operates outside the CAN system. So perhaps it's worth checking if this can function as a switched source to power a relay.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:51 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by henkpenk
I may be wrong but as far as I know the small "christmas tree light" in the headlight assembly operates outside the CAN system. So perhaps it's worth checking if this can function as a switched source to power a relay.
The canbus does nothing with the lampf, the lamp warnings come of the fact that the computer montiors if there is a bulb or not.

But the parkinglight in front is monitored as well, take it out and you get lampf!

But you can still tap in to it to power a relay if you want, but that will make that relay on all the time ignition is on.

Best way is to tap in to the low beam power to get signal for the relay, that way any extra lights only come on with engine running.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:48 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

update on electrical issue. I installed two 3 amp diodes. lamps did not turn off with can bus. They burned steadily.

I went with plan B, and installed relay using the gps outlet as trigger. all works turns on and off with can bus.


Thanks for all you help. Time to ride


Happy trails to you. Third Gear
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:34 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias_K1300s
T

But you can still tap in to it to power a relay if you want, but that will make that relay on all the time ignition is on.


I thought that's what Third Gear is looking for. Lights go on when ignition is on and go out when ignition is off.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:10 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by henkpenk
I thought that's what Third Gear is looking for. Lights go on when ignition is on and go out when ignition is off.
Running a relay from it to power extra lights will make those lights turn on imidiatly when the ignition is on, even thou the engine is not.

Better to tap in to the low beam and signal the relay, that way you can turn ignition on without the lights coming on draining the battery.

Likewise will they stay on for an extra period after the ignition iss off wich drains battery also.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:35 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

About switching off: I never use the kill switch. I always use the ignition key to turn the engine off. That way the small bulb in the headlight assy is switched off and in this case a relay.

I agree that tapping into the low light is a better way but there is a chance that this will trigger a LAMPF message on the dash display.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:41 AM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by henkpenk
About switching off: I never use the kill switch. I always use the ignition key to turn the engine off. That way the small bulb in the headlight assy is switched off and in this case a relay.

I agree that tapping into the low light is a better way but there is a chance that this will trigger a LAMPF message on the dash display.
Trigger lampf! ? no, only if the bulb is broken. As long as there is a bulb there tapping in a signalwire for a relay will not have any effect on the lamp warningsystem. The signal of a relay is only about 20-40mAh current, a halogen bulb draws around 3,5-5A. Likewise will the system also detect and signal a broken bulb still as the signalpower to the relay is to small to imitate abulb.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:13 PM
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Re: canbus issue on 09 k1300s

Mattias is correct, the way it is currently wired causes lights to turn on immediately and indeed there is a 60 second delay to turn them 0ff. I am uncertain if that will cause a problem. The lights are about 2amp pull. Unless the battery is weak it shouldn't become a problem. I will reconsider taping into low beam circuit.

Happy trals to you.
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