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  #1  
Old 04-16-2015, 09:28 PM
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Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

During my Wilbers installation, I also needed to do a valve check, and inspect the cam chain guides/followers, since I had replaced the hyd tensioner with an Ape manual tensioner back in Dec '11. I had purchased the clutch basket tool, the Barnett clutch kit, along with the valve adjustment kit, and oil pump tensioner tools and gaskets for this.



So with the tupperware off, and all my farkles out of the way, I proceeded to work my way into the bowels of the beast.
First, drain off the radiator, and remove. Be prepared to clean the fins, as there is a lot of crap that gets thrown up there. Then there might be the occasional bird carcass.



Take some pics while disassembly, as sometimes you catch yourself putting something back where it may not have been. Don't want that to happen.

Then off comes the valve cover and clutch cover, so I can get the cam chain guides out and inspect these parts during the valve check, to inspect the clutch basket itself, and install the Barnett kit.
So the valve check went off without a hitch. The exhaust valve specs are .30mm-.40mm, and the intake valve specs are .18mm-.28mm As crazy as it sounds, all the exhaust were .35mm, right in the middle of spec, and the intake were .27mm, just at the loose end, but all in spec. So I left them where they were, since a tad loose is better than tight. We'll see where they are next time.

The cam chain guides/followers were hardly scuffed compared to the new ones, so they went back in as well. With the valve cover and clutch cover off, I can see how much tension I had on the chain, and left the Ape unit at the same spot. Originally installed with 14320mi. Now at 40000mi. New plugs from www.sparkplugs.com @ $12.06ea.

Now to the clutch. That nut is a bitch. But bumping it with the impact, it came loose. I seem to recall someone having a K13 clutch basket on a K12s, and thought I'd try it. I purchased a salvage unit from Rubber Side Up LLC in Texas, complete with discs, but no oil pump drive gear. So comparing the two clutches, the 13s has a different look in the metallurgy. Maybe it holds up better. But before I can proceed, the 12s has six tits/bosses on the oil pump drive gear, whereas the 13s has two slots/grooves on it.


k12s on left, k13s on right


Oil pump drive gear on back of clutch basket

So I order an oil pump drive sprocket from Max BMW to complete the install. When it comes in, I install and attempt to adjust the oil pump chain tension, but it is too tight. Lo and behold, the 13s sprocket has 26 teeth, while the 12s has 25. The only thing I can figure, since the part numbers on the oil pumps themselves are different, they must in turn have different size gears on them. And at $450 for a pump, I wasn't ready to tear into the motor any further. Thankfully, Rubber Side Up has a no questions return policy, and they honored it most graciously. Max also took back the drive gear.

So I revert to the stock basket, and replace the discs with the Barnett kit. Get the oil pump chain tensioned properly, and button everything back up.


Oil pump chain eccentric gauge.


Use the foot peg to hold the clutch basket tool while torquing back

Vacuum down the radiator with one of these: Uview Airlift 550000 -- NICE tool. So I'm able to run it, check for leaks, and confirm no strange noises, and I'm happy.

Except......
My fuel strip had gone out, and I had received the recall from the Mother Ship on it and the fuel pump. I had repaired my fuel pump housing back in Dec '11, and had no leaks, and since I was going to let them replace the strip, Ben at Champion BMW also looked at the pump and ordered me one of those. So I have a new pump assembly, and fuel strip. NOW I'm happy.
Clutch seems fine, I don't have that squeal that started to appear, and I'm ready for another 40000mi of sweet bliss on two wheels.
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2015, 05:28 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Robert

You are a GOD SEND! I too, have to replace my clutch. I also purchased the Barnett Clutch Kit. I also purchased ALL the "SPECIAL" BMW Tools needed to do the clutch. I have the crank shaft locking tool, alternator gear un-loader tool and clutch basket tool. I have the BMW Repair Manual on CD and the new crank case fasteners.

I didn't purchase the oil pump chain adjustment tool. Can the oil pump chain be adjusted without that tool???? Is it absolutely required to make an adjustment??

I'm a very good mechanic and I usually have ZERO hesitation to jump into a project like this CLUTCH REPLACEMENT but, MAN,,,,, I have that weird feeling that I'm not seeing everything that's required to get this accomplish properly. The repair CR ROM doesn't have very detailed sequencing pictures like most repair manuals that I have seen.

I have looked 100 different ways to find some You Tube videos on K1200 R or S engine maintenance and or clutch repair. There's NOT much out there that I can see or have found.

Any words of wisdom or words of caution that you can relay about doing the clutch replacement?? What's the reason for doing this:

Align the lettering (arrow) of the first plate projection with the bore (arrow) in the clutch cage.

It looks like I don't have to remove the clutch basket if I don't want to mess with the oil pump chain adjustment.

Was your basket worn or damaged?

QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS!


EXCELLENT Pictures by the way!! Had to LOL when I saw the Bird!


Thanks in advance

Bill
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:41 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Excellent Robert!
Thanks for making the effort.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:52 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Several bikes on the forum have made the switch to K13 baskets from the 12, no mention of oil pump chain problems.
Really glad you posted this, can you flesh it out with more details. Did the Barnett pack fit with no problems, correct stack thickness etc. The devil is in the details.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:32 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

I have some more pics I can load, and I'll try to give some more detail. All in all, the Barnett fit fine. They have a specific pattern to put into the basket. Theirs being marked with red and black paint, while the oem has lettering on the "fingers". I took some pics of them so you can see how they stack up.

I should have taken a pic of the 13 basket, as it had a different look to the metal. But I forgot to.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:45 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Jumping in on this thread, do you have any problems with your stock k12 basket? Mine has four of the springs either broke or loose so much so that the noise is pretty bad. Does anyone know of anyone that has tried to fix the basket springs? Or if there is any other option than BMW and a lot of $$$??
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:44 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Ok, here's the reprom description, along with some of my notes: I made a few edits here the next morning.

Remove plate cluster (1) and thrust washer (2).


Clutch plates can burn if installed dry.
Immerse the new clutch-plate stack in clean engine oil before installing.

These instructions are if you are installing a complete cluster from BMW. But they are relevent.

Do not change the positions of the lined plates relative to each other.
Slacken screws (2) until the clutch plates can be turned.
Before slackening cluster (1), apply a mark (arrow).
Immerse plate cluster (1) in engine oil.
The friction faces of the lined plates are wetted by oil.
Turn the lined plates to the positions indicated by the mark (arrow).

Notice the tabs on the discs are all aligned , except the outermost one. Mark a set of tabs, and the slot of the basket they came out of as a reference. Possibly try to mark the smaller tabs, as these will be a reference for installation. Not a big issue if you can't. Since you're replacing the discs, the screws will be removed, and the spring/pressure plate. Immerse the new discs in oil prior to installation.



The oem discs have lettering on one of the tabs, and these are smaller than the others, referenced in the insert in the pic below. This is looking at the back side of the cluster. I can't put my fingers on the Barnett paper, but I recall that this is the 'red' tab of their kit. This tab lines up with the slot/ small bore hole in the clutch basket, per the pic. I found it easier to put the discs into the basket one at a time, since the metal discs have the slots that need to be aligned with the internal basket, if that makes sense. It will once you see it. Once you get them in, put the pressure plate, bowl and screws in snug, but do not tighten. Slide the cluster out, and give it a second look, making sure you put the spacing washer in before final assembly. The reason I say not to tighten the screws yet, is when I did, my clutch thrust bearing and pressure head seemed to bind. So I slid them in while loose, jiggled them until centered, then tightened the screws for the pressure plate per sequence, and the thrust bearing spun freely. Once you have the screws tight, you can pull the cluster in and out as many times as you want without them moving.

Align the lettering (arrow) of the first plate projection with the bore (arrow) in the clutch cage.
Note:
There is only one position in which the plate cluster can be fitted into the clutch cage.


________________________________________
Install spacing washer (1) and plate cluster (2), noting the mark applied when the plate cluster was lubricated.
In order to insert plate cluster (2), engage a gear and turn the rear wheel by hand.




Tighten screws (1).
Pressure bowl to pressure plate
M6 tighten in diagonally opposite sequence 8 Nm

Before I tightened these, make sure the thrust bearing and pressure head spin freely.

Thrust bearing(5) and pressure head(4)



Barnett discs aligned.



Oem discs with lettering



The springs on original basket did rattle, but it is not as noticeable now. Also the slots in the basket had some wear, but for the cost, I let it ride. Original cluster before disassembly.

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Old 04-23-2015, 02:09 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Several bikes on the forum have made the switch to K13 baskets from the 12, no mention of oil pump chain problems.
Really glad you posted this, can you flesh it out with more details. Did the Barnett pack fit with no problems, correct stack thickness etc. The devil is in the details.

I was able to set the Barnett up in my basket, next to the k13 basket/cluster, and they both fit like a glove. Switched back and forth, and no noticeable difference.

This particular salvage clutch was from a 2012.
The part numbers on the basket, oil pump sprocket, and oil pump were different than my '08. Everything else was the same ie, bushing, needle bearing, oil pump chain, and guide.
All I can figure is they changed the gear on the pump itself, because I had no slack to even get it on. One different sprocket number for units up to 9/'10, and another from 9/'10, but since it was from a '12, I went with the newer one. Maybe the earlier one would have worked, but I was just ready to put it back together.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:11 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejakupi
Jumping in on this thread, do you have any problems with your stock k12 basket? Mine has four of the springs either broke or loose so much so that the noise is pretty bad. Does anyone know of anyone that has tried to fix the basket springs? Or if there is any other option than BMW and a lot of $$$??

I found some play in my springs, and the basket had some wear, but I don't know of any way to fix the springs, other than spending $$$.

It's still much quieter than before.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:14 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
Robert

You are a GOD SEND! I too, have to replace my clutch. I also purchased the Barnett Clutch Kit. I also purchased ALL the "SPECIAL" BMW Tools needed to do the clutch. I have the crank shaft locking tool, alternator gear un-loader tool and clutch basket tool. I have the BMW Repair Manual on CD and the new crank case fasteners.

I didn't purchase the oil pump chain adjustment tool. Can the oil pump chain be adjusted without that tool???? Is it absolutely required to make an adjustment??

I'm a very good mechanic and I usually have ZERO hesitation to jump into a project like this CLUTCH REPLACEMENT but, MAN,,,,, I have that weird feeling that I'm not seeing everything that's required to get this accomplish properly. The repair CR ROM doesn't have very detailed sequencing pictures like most repair manuals that I have seen.

I have looked 100 different ways to find some You Tube videos on K1200 R or S engine maintenance and or clutch repair. There's NOT much out there that I can see or have found.

Any words of wisdom or words of caution that you can relay about doing the clutch replacement?? What's the reason for doing this:

Align the lettering (arrow) of the first plate projection with the bore (arrow) in the clutch cage.

It looks like I don't have to remove the clutch basket if I don't want to mess with the oil pump chain adjustment.

Was your basket worn or damaged?

QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS!


EXCELLENT Pictures by the way!! Had to LOL when I saw the Bird!


Thanks in advance

Bill

Bill, you don't have to remove the basket just for the clutch discs, but you would need to for the oil pump chain adjustment. And I don't think there is another proper way to do it, without the tool and their crazy process.

I had a little wear on the basket, and the clutch had a little squeal just starting. Other than that, it was still pulling fine.
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Old 04-23-2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsdad57
I found some play in my springs, and the basket had some wear, but I don't know of any way to fix the springs, other that spending $$$.

It's still much quieter that before.


Thanks for all of your information. Great thread!!
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:15 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejakupi
Thanks for all of your information. Great thread!!

Glad to help if I can. I edited some wording this morning.
I was getting a little slap happy @ 1am.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:36 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Nice write up and pictures, Robert.
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Old 04-24-2015, 12:18 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Well, if it wasn't a 2600km trip (~1615m), I'd ask you to do that to my machine and pay you in the process

Nice write up - but doesn't seem for the faint of heart.. or the... not so mechanically-inclined (I'm a geek, what can I say? )
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:36 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

I have a stinking suspicion that the DAMPENING SPRINGS on my clutch basket could be the cause of my noise at idle (transmission on N) and when traveling at low speeds in gear, clutch out. When I apply the clutch lever, the noise STOPS.

IF,, there is slop in the springs or one is broken, are there any remedies/repairs that have been made to correct this issue short of replacing the entire clutch basket?

I have not disassembled the clutch as of yet but I will have to SOON!

Robert

Can you PM me the information on the salvage yard that you used to get your parts?
Thank You in advance.

Bill
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:46 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Robert does name the salvage yard in the thread and I asked the same question about my loose springs in the basket that I opened and confirmed, and it sounds like you have the same issue. Unfortunately there is no fix for the springs that I or anyone else has found. If you do find a way please share. Good luck.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:15 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Great write up---

Look forward to taking the valve cover off mine to take a peek at the valve clearances and see if the is excessive gap.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:44 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee

Robert

Can you PM me the information on the salvage yard that you used to get your parts?
Thank You in advance.

Bill

Hey Bill, here ya go..... http://www.rubbersideup.com/

He has some items on ebay. That's where I purchased the clutch from him.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:48 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Nice job Robert!
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:52 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

sorry to ask what may be a silly question but here goes. I want to just replace my clutch plates with Barnett plates. Looking at it do I just undo the m6 bolts in the middle of the basket and just remove and replace the plates ? No need to remove the basket ?
Thanks Ian
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:05 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Thanks for all the pics and info on this thread I have fitted a Barnett clutch kit to my kgt. No specials tools needed. The clutch is been well worth it no more noise like a bag of spanners and the pull away squawk has gone. I had put up with it for 6 months but I should have just done it.
Thanks again guys
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:40 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejakupi
Jumping in on this thread, do youhthttp://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004tp://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004have any problems with your stock k12 basket? Mine has four of the springs either broke or loose so much so that the noise is pretty bad. Does anyone know of anyone that has tried to fix the basket springs? Or if there is any other option than BMW and a lot of $$$??

A great thread showing what's required to change clutch parts out. A few months ago I was asked to do a similar job for an owner and a couple of workshops near me. They all found me through other work I had done on motorcycle wet clutches. As a result I'm now rebuilding clutch baskets with new springs. Have also done research into the squawk at take off. I'm now rebuilding the friction packs with modified oiling and replacement plates where required.
Since then I had a further three clutches open because of pack wear and the squawk at take off. Become clear that BMW have changed the design so often its hard to say exactly which clutch needs which parts to confidently send out parts kits. To avoid compatibility issues its best to have the engines original clutch parts upgraded. Even the latest changes to the baskets and friction packs I have seen from BMW still have the wear issue and squawk at take off.
Bit more on this which I will add to when more time.
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:13 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Rebuilding clutch basket springs is what I'm looking for. Can I get your contact info.?
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:31 AM
fourhundred4 fourhundred4 is offline
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Yes. Click on my name to the left of any post. Takes you to my contact details where you can choose to email directly or use Private Message (PM) through the forum.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:11 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Old thread sorry, but the bikes are in the zone now, Whey you insert a barnett clutch pack, do you remove the spacer and spring ring that are just inside the outer friction plate? (and leave them out.
This is a great thread and I found it in my files.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Old thread sorry, but the bikes are in the zone now, Whey you insert a barnett clutch pack, do you remove the spacer and spring ring that are just inside the outer friction plate? (and leave them out.
This is a great thread and I found it in my files.

Yes because the Barnett clutch packs do not come with the special friction plate that has room for the spacer and spring. Spacer and spring are anti chatter device to smooth the take off from rest and also improve the feel of the clutch. If I fit a Barnett pack sent here with a clutch hub and basket for rebuild, I fit a new spacer and anti chatter spring inside a special extra plate with room for them.

To clarify. Most 1300 engines have the anti chatter device. Much smaller number of 1200 engines have it. Introduced by BMW in later engines to avoid clutch chattering as you take off from rest.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:30 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourhundred4
Yes because the Barnett clutch packs do not come with the special friction plate that has room for the spacer and spring. Spacer and spring are anti chatter device to smooth the take off from rest and also improve the feel of the clutch.


<<<<If I fit a Barnett pack sent here with a clutch hub and basket for rebuild, I fit a new spacer and anti chatter spring inside a special extra plate with room for them.>>>>



To clarify. Most 1300 engines have the anti chatter device. Much smaller number of 1200 engines have it. Introduced by BMW in later engines to avoid clutch chattering as you take off from rest.




What do people do that don't send them to you? Just leave out the two and use the pack from barnett by it self?
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:12 AM
fourhundred4 fourhundred4 is offline
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
What do people do that don't send them to you? Just leave out the two and use the pack from barnett by it self?

My earlier answer.

"Yes because the Barnett clutch packs do not come with the special friction plate that has room for the spacer and spring".

I'm only able to comment where owners made contact.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:29 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Old thread sorry, but the bikes are in the zone now, Whey you insert a barnett clutch pack, do you remove the spacer and spring ring that are just inside the outer friction plate? (and leave them out.
This is a great thread and I found it in my files.

Beech,
I'll look at my clutch that is out of the bike, along with the OEM discs in the old Barnett box and compare the two. I can't say offhand what I did until I look at them side by side.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:55 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourhundred4
My earlier answer.

"Yes because the Barnett clutch packs do not come with the special friction plate that has room for the spacer and spring".

I'm only able to comment where owners made contact.




Thanks, figured no room for them but I wanted to confirm. I could not remember where I had seen the info.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:35 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Ok, looking at the oem parts in the box, and the clutch pack with the barnett, both have eight fiber discs and eight metal discs.

I removed the screws that hold in the pressure bowl and pressure plate(called a belleville washer on ktm dirt bike). There is a wire ring that is in the outer circumference under the pressure plate's outer edge. There was nothing else on mine that I removed, as it would have been in the box with the oem discs.

Just mark the discs before removal, and put the new ones back in the same way. The first seven go in lined up, while the top one is offset.

Mine didn't have any kind of "anti chatter device".
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:57 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Actually there are two "wire rings" together they fill the space of the smaller outer friction plate. One of the rings is a flared spring that helps keep the plate off the aluminum hub when clutch is activated. I believe as mentioned to me that both these are left out when a Barnett clutch pack is used.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:48 PM
fourhundred4 fourhundred4 is offline
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

See attached.

Spring and its seat on the splines of the hub. Plate in foreground is same as all Barnett plates come. Special plate in background has larger diameter to allow spring and seat to fit inside. If using Barnett plate kits they don't have the special plate. You have to do without the springs. I think thats why Barnett only list pack for 1200 and not 1300 engines.
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Old 11-19-2018, 03:00 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Definitive clarity, thanks. The confusion as you say, comes from the two series of bikes and the discussions not re iterating the bike model as people get into this. (or old age and just not noticing )
With the price of OEM parts along with the refusal of BMW to sell friction/and drive plate sets, any move to a more affordable solution is a good one. We are seriously into the life cycle of these bikes where clutch work is going full tilt.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:05 AM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fednta
I want to just replace my clutch plates with Barnett plates

You can if its a 1200 engines clutch. Flange on the hub needs to be in good condition like this one. The black oblongs are just oil marks left by the friction linings. The face they run against is still true and flat. No grooves. If not then any new plates will wear down prematurely and the take off from rest might not be as refined and controlled as it should be.
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:01 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

You can get an oil pump drive sprocket with the same number of teeth to match the older k1200s oil pump.
Ive got one on my 2005 K1200s fitted with the latter basket.
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Old 12-20-2018, 12:13 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fednta
I want to just replace my clutch plates with Barnett plates

You can't fit Barnett plates or will need extra parts if its a 1300 engines clutch (or you can fit them but not likely to last long or give a clutch that is fit/very nice to use). Just as notice of this post comes in I am assembling both a 1200 clutch hub and 1300 clutch hub with new plates. Creating reconditioned lamellar packs for both engines.

Many 1300 engines clutches with issues are worn like in the last attached. A deep groove over half the width of the flange. Its the special narrow plate eats into the aluminium due to poor oiling and/or poor choice of original parts/design by BMW.

Even if like new as in the first attachment the Barnett plate against the flange will suffer damage due to the two extra oil feed windows tearing into the friction lining. Barnett don't make a plate that avoids those and has room for the required anti chatter spring and its seat as in the second and third attachments.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20181220_153957.jpg (44.5 KB, 19 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20181220_155833.jpg (126.7 KB, 27 views)
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:43 PM
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Re: Valve check w/Ape , Barnett clutch install

MAN,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure glad that I'm having YOU repair my clutch. There are TOOOO many BMW changes to sort out to have proper clutch operation. Hope to hear from you soon so that I can get my clutch to you..

Thanks for all that you do!

Bill
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