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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:18 PM
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2004 K1200GT questions

I just recently bought a 2004 K12GT in great shape off a guy in Branson. As far as I can tell, and from what the seller told me, the thing is completely stock with no mods ever having been done. Can anyone here suggest things I should be aware of on this bike or that I should consider doing to ensure reliability when on the road?

I have a fairly new pair of Michelin PR2's on it, and I'm happy (so far) with these.

I dislike the windscreen (I'm 6' 1")
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:36 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Windscreen. Some go bigger, some like the smaller stock RS windscreen, some go smaller to a sport screen. To go bigger those folks are trying to get in calm air. To go smaller those folks are trying to get head into clean air. It becomes your preference. Being in between the two is the rough spot.

Maintenance. Do it regularly. It matters. Perhaps with the ABS system do it more frequent than required
Parts to expect to replace,
rear brake pads every 15k, front ones 60k
pivot bearings by around 50k
rear shocks usually before 50k
front shock usually before 80k
The rear main seal will leak at some point, Mine did at 7800 miles and then was approaching a need for that at a repair near 90k (when you do this it is involved so you do a number of things while there)
rear final drive 30-100k. It is a bearing that fails.

Experiment riding with the RPMs above 5k,
Learn to ride with a bit of body movement leading the bike into curves
Different brands of tires will make the bike feel different. Read on the forum the variety of experiences. Sport touring tires seem to last from 7k-12k depending on many varied factors
gas mileage for most 35-42 mpg
Yes the bike will have a pull to the right. ( I put all my daily things in the left bag and that tends to balance it out. It is also tire brand dependent, some seem to pull more to the right than others.

N JOI IT ENJOY IT.. SMILE and RIDE..... OFTEN

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Old 06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

+1 on Stephen's comments, two other things you'll definitely need, a good radar detector [these things are sneaky fast and damn fast ] and check your bike to see if the gas line disconnects which are plastic from the factory and are a known point of failure, with potential conflagration to follow with metal ones from the Beemerboneyard - http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html

Here's what the metal disconnects look like in place - you can see them with the fairing on,



By the way, I'm 5'11 and prefer the standard RS windscreen with airflow at shoulder level - to deal with noise I always ride with earplugs.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

How does it run when cold, can you startup and drive right away with no stumbles or bogs? There was a "silent" recall on the ECU to fix this so you want to make sure that has been done.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:10 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-K
How does it run when cold, can you startup and drive right away with no stumbles or bogs? There was a "silent" recall on the ECU to fix this so you want to make sure that has been done.

It runs well from start up. I'd been warned that if it's left on the side stand that it's normal for these bikes to sometimes smoke for a few minutes after a cold start up. I was also told about the idle "rattle," but neither the smoke nor the rattle has been an issue yet. I'll look into the silent service bulletin. Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:12 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
+1 on Stephen's comments, two other things you'll definitely need, a good radar detector [these things are sneaky fast and damn fast ] and check your bike to see if the gas line disconnects which are plastic from the factory and are a known point of failure, with potential conflagration to follow with metal ones from the Beemerboneyard - http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html

Here's what the metal disconnects look like in place - you can see them with the fairing on,




Thanks. This one will definitely be on my urgent list.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:18 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG
Thanks. This one will definitely be on my urgent list.
1+ Yeah I overlooked that one. Fix it sooner rather than later. If you can't get some disconnects from a place like beemerboneyard ASAP, at least go to Lowes/Depot and get a two brass fittings and clamps and join them mechanically. Just be sure to keep the lines labeled so they don't get crossed.

Now that you know, if they are the OEM plastic ones they will break soon. LOL

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Old 06-01-2012, 06:10 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Great bike when all is well....Do yourself a favor and start a bike fund..$30.00 per week should be close to what the tires and hidden cost will be.... Not trying to be smart but just laying it out there for you. I don't know what mileage you have on it but when shit goes wrong you ll be happy you have a fund to raid. ABS/ servo assist issues will pop up and if you need a new pump your into $2,500 at a snap. rear seal will fail and contaminate the clutch and an instant $600.00 - $800.00 with you doing the labor or add another $1,000.00 if you have a shop do it. Great bike otherwise and none will ever replace it. But start that fund.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:06 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG
It runs well from start up. I'd been warned that if it's left on the side stand that it's normal for these bikes to sometimes smoke for a few minutes after a cold start up. I was also told about the idle "rattle," but neither the smoke nor the rattle has been an issue yet. I'll look into the silent service bulletin. Thanks!

Get a GS-911 on it and you can read the ECU version easily without tearing it apart.
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2012, 08:55 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Everyone has given you good advice so far. Also, replace the damn feeble stock horn with a Stebel Nautilus. It has kept people out of my lane several times and it's fun to watch the shit-scared look they get when you hit the horn.

If you need everyday storage space and don't want to use the side bags you can fit a top case. I have the Givi V46 and never take it off. It looks good, is very convenient and holds a bunch of stuff.
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:56 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Hmm.. Ok if adding stuff. Seriously consider adding the HID low beam kit from Pirates Lair. Easy install and wonderfully more light. I left the high beam along with a Silverstar in it. The cost of the HID kit equals what I have spent in H7 bulbs over the last few years. There are others but that was the easiest thing that made the most difference.

For wife, got a backrest for Pirate as well. It only goes on when she rides. Easy install and on/off. She appreciates it. That was a bit more $$ but it keeps her happy on the bike.
The other cheap thing for her is I did a rear seat cover off of ebay. An Anti-slip thing, Tribone or something similar for like 25 bucks. It stopped her from slipping around so much on the seat which she also liked.

I am sure there will be more. But do consider the HID kit for 60 bucks. When doing the install it is just as it says but you have to make an extra little width at 180 degrees, 1/8 inch more at most on each side for clearance of some tabs.

Isn't it about time for a ride report dude?

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Old 06-02-2012, 12:40 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

The big K will handle better with a v profile tire vs. a round profile. A set of aftermarket struts will eliminate the back end wallowing. You will want to augment the lighting if you do any night travel. Aftermarket shield is a must--lots of buffeting off the stock shield.

I agree with setting some money aside. The big K was the least reliable BMW I've owned out of 5. Also, until you get use to the bike, be careful with how hard you drive it into tight corners--she is front wheel heavy and ass light and will push in the the corners.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:41 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-K
How does it run when cold, can you startup and drive right away with no stumbles or bogs? There was a "silent" recall on the ECU to fix this so you want to make sure that has been done.
I have the same bike and it bogs down bad for a couple of minutes after start up. How do get the ECU replaced?
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by tas61
I have the same bike and it bogs down bad for a couple of minutes after start up. How do get the ECU replaced?

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIFvicSViKE

This is how it should run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8yYh_NnoZI

Here's a 296 ECU in the UK, but you can also just replace the EPROM if you do your own work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/bmw-k1200-rs...item460099ecf0

Here's some light ECU reading: http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=1022

Not that big a deal to change the EPROM, just pull the Tupperware then lift the tank up and set it to the right on top of the relay box to get to the ECU. You don't need to disconnect anything on the tank besides the sender wire and this is a good time to check/change the fuel disconnects to metal if they haven't been done already. I don't even bother disconnecting the battery and I swap ECU's frequently. Just don't turn the key on while you're in the process and make sure and do a TPS reset when the new ECU/EPROM goes in. K-Clive just swapped his EPROM, PM him and ask how it went.

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Old 06-03-2012, 08:50 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Thanks for the info. My bike isn't quite that bad, but not far from it. After I changed the oil, the air filter and the spark plugs it ran much better. I've had the bike for less than a year, so I'm playing catch up on the maintenance thanks to the previous owner.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:37 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
+1 on Stephen's comments, two other things you'll definitely need, a good radar detector [these things are sneaky fast and damn fast ] and check your bike to see if the gas line disconnects which are plastic from the factory and are a known point of failure, with potential conflagration to follow with metal ones from the Beemerboneyard - http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html

Here's what the metal disconnects look like in place - you can see them with the fairing on,


By the way, I'm 5'11 and prefer the standard RS windscreen with airflow at shoulder level - to deal with noise I always ride with earplugs.

If you have experienced failure of the OEM plastic QDs please consider taking a couple of minutes to file a report at

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/preview.xhtml
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Still enjoying my K12rs ...... both of them ( 2001 - 2004 )
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:22 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by tas61
Thanks for the info. My bike isn't quite that bad, but not far from it. After I changed the oil, the air filter and the spark plugs it ran much better. I've had the bike for less than a year, so I'm playing catch up on the maintenance thanks to the previous owner.

I just did the Eprom swap. Never had much of a problem with the bogging on cold startup after I did the throttle cable adjustment/TPS reset and my bike ran good but for the poor fuel consumption and slight surging on decelleration. That's gone....!

May be subjective, always seems that my bike runs better even when I just wash/polish it but no....it does run better with the 296 and fuel consumption has improved significantly. Now in line with the figures in the rider's manual, that is when I ride at the appropriate speed.

Only difficulty is opening the cover on the ECU,but I did have the right bits in my "Break into anything kit". Well glued there with sillycone the cover but starting at one corner with an old wood chisel will break the bond and then I watched the rest peel off one side as I moved the chisel. Still seals well without adding more sillycone, something I did not want to do just in case the 296 install did not work and I'd have to go back in there. No need to....!

Thanks again Mr. K-K....I'll keep posting them Thanks everywhere.

Also spark plug wires.....2 of mine were giving strange Ohm readings as I tested them. Fine when bent in operating position but when laid straight....no more Ohms.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:24 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Multiple small screwdrivers work well also. Start with one on each side of a corner and gently pry then work around from there. See which side the silicone is primarily sticking to then make it all go that way. If you don't rip the silicone bead then you have a nice built in gasket.

I'm in and out of my backup ECU so much I think I need to install a zipper on it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
I just did the Eprom swap. Never had much of a problem with the bogging on cold startup after I did the throttle cable adjustment/TPS reset and my bike ran good but for the poor fuel consumption and slight surging on decelleration. That's gone....!

May be subjective, always seems that my bike runs better even when I just wash/polish it but no....it does run better with the 296 and fuel consumption has improved significantly. Now in line with the figures in the rider's manual, that is when I ride at the appropriate speed.

Only difficulty is opening the cover on the ECU,but I did have the right bits in my "Break into anything kit". Well glued there with sillycone the cover but starting at one corner with an old wood chisel will break the bond and then I watched the rest peel off one side as I moved the chisel. Still seals well without adding more sillycone, something I did not want to do just in case the 296 install did not work and I'd have to go back in there. No need to....!

Thanks again Mr. K-K....I'll keep posting them Thanks everywhere.

Also spark plug wires.....2 of mine were giving strange Ohm readings as I tested them. Fine when bent in operating position but when laid straight....no more Ohms.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:37 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Lighting: The stock wiring to the head seems to be too small for the load and leads to some issues. Beef up the lighting, it is gawd aweful. HID is a good solution, I used the PIAA's as HID wasn't out yet.

Tires: Expect to get about 8k out of them if you aren't too agreesive.

Barbacks/Seat/Peg Lowering?: Give the stock setup some time, about 1,000 miles and see if you need to add barbacks and/or change out the front seat. I ended up keeping the seat and adding barbacks amd a peg lowering kit.

Backrest: The stealth backrest was the best option for me. I don't know if Pirate is still carrying them or not. Wish this option was available on my K13GT.

Storage: Having only half a pannier on one side is no fun on longer trips. You might also consider the BMW Softbags.

Clutch Slave: My clutch slave failed at around 30k, I heard this was an issue with a few bikes.

Suspension: Some people have replaced their stock suspension with Ohlin's at around 30-40k when the stock rear is done.

GPS?: I added a Zumo to mine. There are some great instructions on this site for tapping into the existing GPS wiring instead of going directly to the battery.

Enjoy the bike, but as others have said, watch the speed!
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-K
I'm in and out of my backup ECU so much I think I need to install a zipper on it!

I guess you left the lower front screw a little loose on the mounting bracket? Too tight and it is airbox removal time or the long needlenose pliers? But a little prying back & forth and my ECU came out without touching that screw, and then I used the long needle nose pliers to slacken the screw and make it easier to slide back in.

All good, even runs good on the regular fuel I had to put in there, no premium in the boonies sometimes. Unless that is you just happen to know the attendant and can wink wink some of the "Marked Purple Premium" sold for farm/offroad use and save on the road tax.

Darn.....seems to hit the Rev limiter a little faster now, Oooops!
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:33 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
I just did the Eprom swap. Never had much of a problem with the bogging on cold startup after I did the throttle cable adjustment/TPS reset and my bike ran good but for the poor fuel consumption and slight surging on decelleration. That's gone....!

May be subjective, always seems that my bike runs better even when I just wash/polish it but no....it does run better with the 296 and fuel consumption has improved significantly. Now in line with the figures in the rider's manual, that is when I ride at the appropriate speed.

Only difficulty is opening the cover on the ECU,but I did have the right bits in my "Break into anything kit". Well glued there with sillycone the cover but starting at one corner with an old wood chisel will break the bond and then I watched the rest peel off one side as I moved the chisel. Still seals well without adding more sillycone, something I did not want to do just in case the 296 install did not work and I'd have to go back in there. No need to....!

Thanks again Mr. K-K....I'll keep posting them Thanks everywhere.


To PBEGIN:
I never felt my 2002 (K1200RS) had much of an issue related to this ECU Bulletin, BUT if you say you see some fuel-consumption improvements, I am willing to try this 296 ECU :-)

Other than EBAY for a used Motronic box, what is your "secret" source for this EPROM mister Pbegin ? Thanks !
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:54 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor
To PBEGIN:
I never felt my 2002 (K1200RS) had much of an issue related to this ECU Bulletin, BUT if you say you see some fuel-consumption improvements, I am willing to try this 296 ECU :-)

Other than EBAY for a used Motronic box, what is your "secret" source for this EPROM mister Pbegin ? Thanks !

Not secret...I keep saying thanks to him. Thanks Mr. K-K!

The price is right. I never even asked, just got a PM.

I know you don't have the stumbling when cold problem blamed on the 166s, certainly concurs with your assesment of that, as in the "Other adjustments" mentioned in the bulletin Etc...Etc..! Worked for me the Throttle cables/TPS reset and cured that stumbling.So I stir the pot on that once in a while because it was an easy fix for that problem. And if I recall so was yours?

Anyway, new Bosch plugs and NGK wires and 7L/100 Kms but that was riding hard. 2 bad wires and replaced the NGK plugs with Bosch,I think I made the consumption worse. 6.4/100 last year on average, not too bad but still "Idiot light" on at 225-230 Kms.Never saw the light on at 265 until I replaced the Eprom. Should have better average figures in the next few days but all points to the 5.8/100 at 120 km/hr from the manual.Just have to find some flatter less twisty roads to check that out.

May be subjective but bike runs better. Hard to say just yet, after so many miles we sort of get habituated to the way our machines are running and tend to overlook little things such as slight surgings but then when you change and then look back, it goes Oh Yeah.....funny that's gone, not that we really noticed before.There is something else I have noticed but will take a road trip to see for sure.

Most seem to take their clues that their engines are running better on acceleration, nothing wrong with that, , but I seem to get a lot of clues on decceleration and that is just as important when you ride them twisty roads.

Now if it could stop raining I could load up and hit the road for a few days at a more even pace and really see about the average fuel comsumption. So far so good.

Eh! Eh! Go for it, we'd like your input!
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:07 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Worked for me the Throttle cables/TPS reset and cured that stumbling.
Great 1st reply from NCS! You covered a ton of great stuff in that single post!
Regarding the cold stumble as K-K's clip shows, I'm having that issue & was thinking that it was time to redo the TPS reset. Thx pbegin for the validation of that being a 1st thing to check.

Other question: I'm running a Rhinewest chip (which made a dramatic improvement). Does the ECU replacement essentially just upgrade that chip?
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter
. Thx pbegin for the validation of that being a 1st thing to check.

And throttle cable adjustment. Mine had way too much slack, well 2 of them on my bike. But you know I wasn't really looking at fixing the stumble when cold,did not even know then about them bad 166s. Maybe better that way back then....! Just did not like the jerking caused by loose cable(s) when playing in the twisties.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:00 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter
Regarding the cold stumble as K-K's clip shows, I'm having that issue & was thinking that it was time to redo the TPS reset. Thx pbegin for the validation of that being a 1st thing to check.

Other question: I'm running a Rhinewest chip (which made a dramatic improvement). Does the ECU replacement essentially just upgrade that chip?
If you've got the Rhinewest chip, then your cold stumble shouldn't be because of the early ECU. The Rhinewest completely cured mine, which had the classic cold stumble when I got it. The newer stock ECU wouldn't be considered an upgrade, maybe a downgrade. I've got both chips (all three, actually), and prefer the Rhinewest, but the change is subtle.

Since you've got a cold stumble with the Rhinewest, start with the throttle reset. If that doesn't work, start looking for vacuum leaks and check the cable adjustments.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingiron
If you've got the Rhinewest chip, then your cold stumble shouldn't be because of the early ECU. The Rhinewest completely cured mine, which had the classic cold stumble when I got it. The newer stock ECU wouldn't be considered an upgrade, maybe a downgrade. I've got both chips (all three, actually), and prefer the Rhinewest, but the change is subtle.

Since you've got a cold stumble with the Rhinewest, start with the throttle reset. If that doesn't work, start looking for vacuum leaks and check the cable adjustments.

What "three" chips do you have?
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:08 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

All this talk of 166's and 296's is great stuff, but I've got a 477 in my 02 RS What's that I do not have any cold start/running issues but I would sure love a crisper throttle
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:00 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-K
What "three" chips do you have?
Old BMW (stumbler)
New BMW (from you)
Rhinewest
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:46 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

I would be surprised if 477 is a BMW number unless it is another number, because 296 is the current dealer fit all offering:

11CONTROL UNIT MOTRONIC MA2.4 EU21 13617657296 $1,441.37+core

Geeze, just look at that price!

But hey, they reckon they may have just discovered the Higgs boson, so anything is possible.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:17 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

I have seen a few of them 477s for sale on Fleabay, seem to be OEMs for around 2000-2001 and up to some 2002s or so, then the 166s came about then the 296s.

One size fits all now?....at a price.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:22 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Yes, but I have to say that being on a 296er myself now for several months from a very early ECU to this one, I have seen no problems at all, except a small improvement in gas consumption (?)

I seem to have bypassed any of the cold start and stumble issues and if they were there as bad as others said, this 'fit all' firmware version seems flawless as far as I can tell. What annoys me is BMW could have offered a shop approved chip upgrade to an existing ECU for far less money.

It just seems to have taken BMW a long time and several iterations of the ECU to get it right. But curiously, I think there are still some with the lower versions of firmware seeing no problems. I know cruise where fitted (not on my bike) uses sections of the code, therefore we have to be careful assuming an ECU variant could show the same problems for all bikes.

Interesting that the 166ers pop up on Fleabay fairly often - you should not pay top dollar! But now you know how to fix them.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:41 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

My ECU is # 7 665 477. I am wondering if BMW might have used a different unit for the Australian market which has (had?) less stringent emission regulations. Will fitting a Rhinewest chip give a crisper throttle while running on a stock exhaust? Fuel economy has always been around 50 mpg or 5.5 litres per 100 km. Naturally thats taking it easy with careful use of the throttle so I don't get those figures very often. Otherwise, 41 mpg or 6.8 litres if I'm really pushing it hard. Does an aftermarket chip reduce fuel economy?
Thanks
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:42 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
My ECU is # 7 665 477. I am wondering if BMW might have used a different unit for the Australian market which has (had?) less stringent emission regulations. Will fitting a Rhinewest chip give a crisper throttle while running on a stock exhaust? Fuel economy has always been around 50 mpg or 5.5 litres per 100 km. Naturally thats taking it easy with careful use of the throttle so I don't get those figures very often. Otherwise, 41 mpg or 6.8 litres if I'm really pushing it hard. Does an aftermarket chip reduce fuel economy?
Thanks

Mr FLYINGKIWI, you are not alone with a ECU # 7 665 477.

I did NOT remove the fairings recently to read the label on the unit, but according to the GS-911, this is the version I have on my 2002 K1200RS.

I bought this K1200RS brand-new in Canada. It is my understanding that in 2001 and 2002, the bike sold in Canada were much closer to Europe specs. Contrary ro USA specs, we do NOT have the charcoal-canister here in Canada on the K1200.

Like PBEGIN, I have also seen a few 477 Motronic for sale on Ebay from bike in the 2001 or 2002 range.
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  #35  
Old 07-04-2012, 06:21 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
My ECU is # 7 665 477. I am wondering if BMW might have used a different unit for the Australian market which has (had?) less stringent emission regulations. Will fitting a Rhinewest chip give a crisper throttle while running on a stock exhaust? Fuel economy has always been around 50 mpg or 5.5 litres per 100 km. Naturally thats taking it easy with careful use of the throttle so I don't get those figures very often. Otherwise, 41 mpg or 6.8 litres if I'm really pushing it hard. Does an aftermarket chip reduce fuel economy?
Thanks

That was my feeling about my '97 ECU which did not suffer all the idle and stumble problems of the later bikes. EU manufacturers keep getting stricter emission rules put on them and I often wondered if the ECU's on the later bikes just went too far, because my mpg always seemed a bit worse than what the 'stumblers' were getting.

The question of replacing the firmware chip depends on the type of chip you have in there already. On my early ECU the chip used was an obsolete Texas memory chip and the ECU board layout and chipset was different to the later 166. I knew that 166 was one of the later chip ECUs which would take the 296 chip image.

You will have to make sure that the chip you have in your ECU box is NOT the older Texas chip, otherwise there is little you can change. The chip tuners got around the earlier and later ECU chip types by producing an addon piggy back board which plugged into the old Texas chip socket. Not something I would like in my ECU.

I would not expect an aftermarket chip to do better on fuel economy, but tune for more power. Therein is often the issue that the oem gives allround performance, whereas tuning can take something away but give back more power elsewhere. Taking off the stock exhaust with CAT gives an immediate weight loss but straight away the oem setup and ECU expects and compensates for the CAT no longer there, which is why the aftermarket mufflers and tuning chips are sold together. Chip, cams and muffler together are said to give the biggest improvement but cost a lot of money. If you have an ECU with the 27C512 chip then it is a fairly easy job to remove the tank and try a chip for feel. The real truth though comes from doing before and after dyno tests.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:52 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

My 2002 RS has the 477 ECU, but the previous owner had it upgraded to the Rhinewest chip. I don't know when he did that, but it has always suffered from a slow response from idle. I never had any cold start issues, just the engine would 'bog' a bit if I throttled up too quickly, worse when it was cold out.

I contacted Rhinewest a few weeks ago and they sent me a new chip with the latest version and that made a world of difference, very smooth and responsive throttle from idle now. Feels like a new bike, especially since I also adjusted the valves at the same time (6 of them at 73k miles). Everything else seems about the same, MPG in the low 40's on the highway and upper 30's around town.

I guess this doesn't really tell you much, other than Rhinewest had a chip based off some old code with the issue but the latest version is golden. They were super to deal with though, can't recommend their customer service enough, especially since I wasn't even the original buyer.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:05 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

I looked at code in some of the aftermarket chips and found on a HEX byte comparison that most of it is the same as the oem!

If you were a chip tuner following the antics of BMW's many upgrade fixes to fixes, you would be silly not to take notice of the code in their latest 296 ECU's, because they will be finding themselves into bikes through dealer swaps.

IF BMW regard the 296 as a final release 'fix all fit all part', then it is understandable that RW might follow a similar path.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:19 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
I looked at code in some of the aftermarket chips and found on a HEX byte comparison that most of it is the same as the oem!

If you were a chip tuner following the antics of BMW's many upgrade fixes to fixes, you would be silly not to take notice of the code in their latest 296 ECU's, because they will be finding themselves into bikes through dealer swaps.

IF BMW regard the 296 as a final release 'fix all fit all part', then it is understandable that RW might follow a similar path.

Derek,

You've pointed out something that everyone here needs to understand. No aftermarket chip company is reinventing the wheel, all they are doing is taking the base BMW code and making slight changes to it. We know this for a fact because we have seen the standard BMW text definition, some of which is reported by the GS911, in their code. My guess is that RW finally figured out the 296 is the end all beat all then made a minor byte change to call it their own and stuck it on their kludgey daughter board. Do you really think any company would take the time to recreate the code required for the cruise control equipped bikes? I think not! Don't believe me then put a GS911 on your Rhinewest cipped ECU and see what the ECU info looks like. Does it say Rhinewest for the maker or something else like BMW???

So to each their own, but paying >$300 for something that has a "subtle" difference in Racingiron's own words doesn't appeal to me! I've tested them all....166, Ztechnick, Rhinewest, EVO "special", my own modified and at least for me the 296 works the best.

Let me add one other thing. There is no doubt in my mind that a bad TPS reset or incorrectly adjusted cables will screw up any of them so do the easy and basic things first if you have a problem.
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2012, 11:56 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Yes I had come to that conclusion a while back when we last spoke. But it is good to remind others that there is no real magic in the aftermarket tuning chips, just changes to a few bytes in the oem code and an awful lot of marketing hype. I did some trawling around the car chip tuning sites and those guys use some clever software tools to locate the fuelling maps in chip code and change it. I think they can pretty well get the complete structure out. VW Golfs and Sciroccos are common prey!

I really doubt the aftermarket chip suppliers we know about could take the EFi components, develop their own code from scratch and license it as wholly their own. I guess that is why Fleabay has a field day with some clones, because the chip tuners would not want to sue on something that is not entirely their own IP and I would not think Bosch gave them any rights either. What we may be saying is the commercial chip tuning companies are doing no more than the ECU hackers and there are a few interesting forums where they hang out.

It all gets rather sneaky when the chip resellers sold their (or rather custom BMW code) chips with dongles to try and prevent people reading and cloning them. As far as I know the exception was Staintune who were really selling mufflers without CATs and had to have a chip to work with them. Since that one does not do much with the stocker, it is readable but of little use.

Unless you have one of those French power restricted bikes, I think chip tuning will only get you something different with downsides. If BMW could have done better and kept the engine life, I think they would have done it. A different story though if you are making physical changes to the cams, muffler and other tweaks because the chip code has to be modified for the new motor characteristic.

The only tuning mods worth looking at are those with dyno charts you can go and verify before and after on your own bike. But then very few would pay up the bucks for mods and post their dyno results with very little change. If you want lower mpg, higher emissions, shorter engine life and more power, then it is relatively easy to throw more fuel into the motor or change the throttle characteristic giving the impression of better acceleration. If you don't believe this, just temporarily take all of the free play out of the throttle cable and go ride. Your impression will be faster acceleration, because for the same wrist position as before, the bike is going faster!

A good test on your tuning efforts without dyno kit is whether the top speed fully loaded has increased, stayed the same (or gone down!). When the bike can get up to 165mph+ with ease and hold it on the track your tuning efforts have worked. But then you would be past the redline because you tuned the motor, made no changes in the motor internals for higher redline or did nothing about the driveline ratios. If you never ride the redline in 6th and want your bike 'tuned' you would be better off changing the final drive ratio.

Take the top speed down from 155 to say 125-130mph to redline and the bike should accelerate like Sh*t. In fact, so fast the slowish BMW shifts could become frustrating. But you would need an effective rpm limiter, an anti G suit and plenty wampum for tires.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:54 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Beautifully put Vox
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:14 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Well that 296 sure works beautifully on my bike.Much better smoother throttle response at slow speeds and that to me is critical when riding them single lane mountainside roads on gravel. Makes them switchbacks much easier to negotiate.

3 days on the road in all conditions and my milleage has improved significantly over the 166. Staying at 4,000 Rpms, mixed highway and gravel backroads with 94 Octane non-ethanol, got 5.528776978 L/100km on the last tank. That's 42.54 mpg/US.

Even had one tank at 5.3 l/100, must have been tired after a day on the seat for that one.

Average over 2000 Kms was 5.734 l/100km (41.02 mpg/US), in line with BMW's posted figures.

Higher speeds well.....will have to wait after a month at work and then installing them PR3s first of course.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:38 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Exactly what I found. I do not think their 296 was a performance tweak, I think they just got it working the way it should have been in the first place.

Your only problem with testing the high speed end will be knowing when to stop accelerating!
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:59 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
Exactly what I found. I do not think their 296 was a performance tweak, I think they just got it working the way it should have been in the first place.

Your only problem with testing the high speed end will be knowing when to stop accelerating!

Rev Limiter???....seems to hit that a little faster now. Only problem here, besides the worn tires I wouldn't trust at speed is finding a straight road long enough. Time to hit the good old USAs and some long stretches of desolated highway I may already just know. Have to wait a few weeks....!

Hey Vox...someone is working on a Fuel/Milleage computer for the Ks, I haven't read the whole thing, but there:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788474
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:44 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Thanks for that link. I read through it and it has all the right concepts. I am still thinking about something but not so sophistocated as that because one of the problems you often hit with bikes is not much space and you have to be careful about adding control buttons and weather proofing. Take something like the oem designed trip computer. An awful lot of work goes into the ergos, making the display visible and easy to operate with gloves and stay waterproof.

I am just going to settle for monitoring the injector pulse width to get approximate 'fuel rate per second' on a 10 digit led bargraph. All I am curious about is holding cruise speeds at optimum throttle settings for lowest consumption and what difference shifting higher or lower might make to the fuel flow rate. That is a lot simpler than a trip computer and I only need to find space and weatherproof a small led bargraph, which will work at night without a display to read or a backlight.

Monitoring the injector opening time does not give absolute accuracy of fuel used over time to tell you what is left in the tank. The problem is the elecronic pulse firing the injector may me measureable but how the injector responds is variable as the mechanics change with the speed of firing. This is only a small problem for an active Efi loop in realtime, but the small errors accumulate over time to give inconsistent results for fuel remaining. I suspect the oem trip computers work better because they have characterised the injector pintle response and make corrections.

With worldwide recession coming our gas prices should come down, but the sad thing for some of us is we may not have the jobs to pay for it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:03 AM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Vox is loosing me in the in the monitoring procedures.... But that's why I put that link up there.

Optimum throttle settings for lowest consumption, used to be built in the dash of some Oldsmobiles like the 98s, a little gauge going from Red to Green. Just a Vacuum Gauge really....never kept them much in the Green back then when gas was cheap, or I should say free in my case.

Yep, gas has gone up here last week, new "Carbon Tax".
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:18 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

I'll have to retract my previous statement, my highway mileage did noticeably increase with the new RW chip. Just went on a longish trip this weekend and measured 50.1 mpg and 49.8 mpg on two separate occasions. I'm quite pleased!

If anyone has a line on the 296 ECU code, please send me a message. I'd like to upgrade my brother's 2000 RS chip at his next tuneup, he'd appreciate the mileage boost.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:00 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Yep, gas has gone up here last week, new "Carbon Tax".

I thought it was just us that had all these concerns about burning fossil fuels!

Anyway, Industry seems to have found a way around some of this. They call it 'carbon trading' It is rather like currency, those that don't produce much of it but have credits can sell theirs on. Before very long you do not need to be producing much to make a profit, just sell carbon credits. We have EU farming policies a bit like that where farmers can get paid for doing nothing with their land.

Let us say you have three bikes but only run one. You rack up carbon credits on the other two and that reduces the gas bill for the bike you ride. Own enough bikes and you have no gas bill at all. Considering you and your family could be pushing more carbon out from 3 bikes, you are a hero for saving the planet. I think that is how it could work.

With all this exploitation going on at taxpayer expense, it is easy to see why Europe is in a mess.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:36 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAK04GT
Great bike when all is well....Do yourself a favor and start a bike fund..$30.00 per week should be close to what the tires and hidden cost will be.... Not trying to be smart but just laying it out there for you. I don't know what mileage you have on it but when shit goes wrong you ll be happy you have a fund to raid. ABS/ servo assist issues will pop up and if you need a new pump your into $2,500 at a snap. rear seal will fail and contaminate the clutch and an instant $600.00 - $800.00 with you doing the labor or add another $1,000.00 if you have a shop do it. Great bike otherwise and none will ever replace it. But start that fund.

That fund is called American Express in my house.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:38 PM
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Re: 2004 K1200GT questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
I thought it was just us that had all these concerns about burning fossil fuels!

Anyway, Industry seems to have found a way around some of this. They call it 'carbon trading' It is rather like currency, those that don't produce much of it but have credits can sell theirs on. Before very long you do not need to be producing much to make a profit, just sell carbon credits. We have EU farming policies a bit like that where farmers can get paid for doing nothing with their land.

Let us say you have three bikes but only run one. You rack up carbon credits on the other two and that reduces the gas bill for the bike you ride. Own enough bikes and you have no gas bill at all. Considering you and your family could be pushing more carbon out from 3 bikes, you are a hero for saving the planet. I think that is how it could work.

With all this exploitation going on at taxpayer expense, it is easy to see why Europe is in a mess.

Obama is doing his best to catch up.
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