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"K12S/KR" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 12-13-2016, 02:40 PM
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07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Okay so the Fall has not been kind to my K1200s ....

A bit about the bike:

-07' K1200s with 24,000 miles
-Airbox/software was updated at 20k miles (airbox was used, and installed by me. I brought to dealer for software update) Ran great till recently, no idle issues at all.
-FULL service at 20K (spark plugs, coolant, air filters, oil/filter, ect)
-PCV installed with autotune before the summer...and I havn't seen any issues with the bike until recently.
-OEM O2 sensor disconnected, autotune O2 installed in factory location.

Now on the idle issue:

A while back I noticed that when the bike was wet/cold it would sometimes idle erratically. Everything else seemed okay up to redline.

Now its getting to the point where the bike will always idle fine at first, until the bike warms up. It will start to idle erratically. If I gas it in N and shut the throttle I can reproduce the stalling affect.

If I cycle the key and perform the TPS reset and turn the bike back on, the idle will smooth back out and it will be fine...for a while. Then the problem will eventually come back.

Battery was just replaced...turning heated gear on or off has no affect on the idle (good or bad) Charging voltage is stable just above 14V.

I have my autotune set to a 5 min timer. IE, the AT starts calibrating after the bike is warmed up a bit. I cannot see this as an issue, because there is no tuning in the 2 first columns so idle should not be affected by the presents of the PCV or AT.

I have seen people having issue with the stock O2 sensor being disconnected but not sure if this is part of the issue. I am going to pull the tank tonight and see if one of my airbox clamps came undone...although my feelings is if it were an airleak, I would see this issue all the time, cold or hot and I would probably be seeing a lean issue in the higher RPM's as well. Maybe the PCV is compensating for this? Not sure as of now.

If TPS is bad, should it be seen in the PCV software? I am going to hook up the cable tonight and see what the PCV is seeing as far as TPS reading.

I will check the newer IAC/AIRBOX to make sure the newer system is not getting stuck...maybe its just dirty? has anyone seen these issues with the newer style airbox?

Not sure what else to check...I am starting to get annoyed with the big blue beastie as she has been giving me nothing but grief lately. Any insight would be appreciated.

-Dan
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2016, 09:58 AM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Update!

So I pulled the airbox last night and this was what I found. If I fiddle with the throttle I can reproduce the issue. I might be able to just re calibrate the IAC but I am not sure if that will ultimately solve the issue (for good). It may be an issue with the TPS that is causing the calibration issue with the IAC but I am not sure. First thing is I am just going to re calibrate the IAC and see if the issue comes back.

I did check the TPS voltage thru the PCV software...the voltage does jump around a little bit (very little) at idle but not enough to change the power commander from 0% to 1%. That isn't to say that the BMW computer isn't more sensitive than the power commander software. The jumpy TPS could be producing an odd IAC calibration which is learned over time.

https://youtu.be/O21mnlbWxYk


Dan
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11' Kawasaki Z1000 Black "The Z"
08' Kawasaki ZX10-R Metallic Black "Batmobike!"
08' Buell 1125r Black "Sadie" (poor sexy Sadie )
92' Suzuki VX800 Blue "Little Blue"
85' Harley Sporty Ironhead "Old Blue"
78' KZ650 - project bike that was never completed.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2016, 10:29 AM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Crickets...hmmm

Anyways,

So I went ahead and purchased a GS911 since they were on sale. I calibrated the IAC unit and at first I thought I was in the clear...at least till i took it out for a short ride. At first the bike was running great...and then it started to rain so I decided to head back home. On the way home I noticed it started its rough idle at a stop light. When I got home I was playing with it in my garage and it stalled a couple times. Back to the dwg board I guess.

I called the BMW shop that did the software update in order to find out what ver they updated the bike with. As I understand it, BMW is supposed to update the BMS-K and the ZFE (what ever that means). Maybe when they did the update, they only updated half the system? I had a spare air temp sensor, so I threw that in just to rule it out as a possible issue. Waiting to hear back from BMW as the service dept is closed on mondays.

Dan
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08' Kawasaki ZX10-R Metallic Black "Batmobike!"
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:17 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

I had similar issues with my 07... I did all the updates, airbox change & more but could never get the fueling issue resolved. I finally gave in & installed a Power Commander & apart from fewer miles per gallon, that did the trick.

Good luck Dan & keep us posted.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:26 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

If you have a Power Commander installed, and I have, and you have issues like you've described, the PC is the first thing I'd take out of the equation every time...
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:17 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete
If you have a Power Commander installed, and I have, and you have issues like you've described, the PC is the first thing I'd take out of the equation every time...

Thanks Pete. I don't think that the PCV isn't part of the issue. The power commander isn't even programmed in the 0%, 2%, or 5% columns. That doesn't mean that there could be a bad wire somewhere causing an issue...but I have some more news that seems promising...


As you can see below, I took the TPS out and off the throttle bodies assy. And what I found was interesting. If I played with the TPS enough...I could get it to produce some interesting results...for the most part it acted normally...but again, if I played with it long enough...BAM O.L.

So, since I ordered a new tps, I decided to crack it open. Its actually pretty easy once I figured out how to do it. Apparently you just have to press out the metal sleeves, and then the connector can be taken apart. What I found inside was clear evidence that something was going wrong.

With that being said, I have no idea if the mechanical failure was something that I had caused playing with it on the bench, or if it was something that happened naturally. Either way, I am hoping that it wasn't caused by my bench play because it could mean I have actually found the issue....

Those "fingers" on the tps are extremely fine...and im guessing they are very susceptible to becoming bent. This could of be a production issue...since other K1300's have had success with their idle issues after replacement...but again I am not sure. Another thing to note, is that the mating pieces looked to be in great shape...the tracks were clear and had little to no track wear.

I will update this thread when I get and install the new TPS.

Also, for what its worth, I went ahead and cleaned up the throttle bodies and pulled the fuel rail and injectors to clean those up too. They didn't seem all that dirty and I doubt have anything to do with the sporadic idle issue.

Dan
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2016, 01:04 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Yours is already out, but when you put the tips back in, the PC software lets you see the taps sensing. You can " set" the 0 and 100% positions.
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2016, 01:16 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete
Yours is already out, but when you put the tips back in, the PC software lets you see the taps sensing. You can " set" the 0 and 100% positions.

yes...i re calibrate the TPS all the time. It used to help when the rough idle first started happening...but eventually it stopped having an effect.

Dan
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11' Kawasaki Z1000 Black "The Z"
08' Kawasaki ZX10-R Metallic Black "Batmobike!"
08' Buell 1125r Black "Sadie" (poor sexy Sadie )
92' Suzuki VX800 Blue "Little Blue"
85' Harley Sporty Ironhead "Old Blue"
78' KZ650 - project bike that was never completed.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:47 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Honestly.. I don't think I've ever seen a 2006-2007 K1200S that idled good... I ended up putting a Booster Plug on mine and it helped tremendously... Didn't cure it 100% but it's much better..

I'd offer to sell you one, but thanks to another one of Barry Obama's executive orders... as of 2 weeks ago we can no longer sell them..

IMHO a Power Commander is the only way to go... and I'd suggest you buy one while you can.. They're about to be taken off the US market as well...
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2016, 02:03 PM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
Honestly.. I don't think I've ever seen a 2006-2007 K1200S that idled good... I ended up putting a Booster Plug on mine and it helped tremendously... Didn't cure it 100% but it's much better..

I'd offer to sell you one, but thanks to another one of Barry Obama's executive orders... as of 2 weeks ago we can no longer sell them..

IMHO a Power Commander is the only way to go... and I'd suggest you buy one while you can.. They're about to be taken off the US market as well...

Idling "good" and what my bike was exhibiting are two different things lol

I already have a PCV, which doesn't touch anything near the idle RPMS...for a good reason. The AT would wind up fighting with the IAC...when i first installed the AT, I will admit that I tried to tune idle and all it did was create a symphony of idle issues. The thing is, the bike should at least idle without stalling, without the use of any piggieback systems...That is the whole idea of having a IAC. Secondly, I have owned an 05' with the original airbox and while it would sometimes hang and act silly, it was never to this extent. The whole point of me updating the airbox on this 07', was to increase idle behavior, not make it worse.

The other thing I don't like, is that the devises like the BP somewhat arbitrarily increases the idle mixture by messing with the signals coming from sensors like the temperature sensor...which is not accurate or an acceptable solution to me. The whole reason to go with the PCV, was so that I could define what AFR values I want the bike to run at...

Dan
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Past But Never Forgotten:
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05' BMW K1200s Black/Yellow "Bumble"
11' Kawasaki Z1000 Black "The Z"
08' Kawasaki ZX10-R Metallic Black "Batmobike!"
08' Buell 1125r Black "Sadie" (poor sexy Sadie )
92' Suzuki VX800 Blue "Little Blue"
85' Harley Sporty Ironhead "Old Blue"
78' KZ650 - project bike that was never completed.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2016, 10:10 AM
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Re: 07' K12S - Idle issue (has new airbox)

Alright, so I decided that I am going to remove the PCV and purchase a AF-Xied (thanks pirate ) lol

I did some reading on both the BP and AF-Xied and I decided to go with the AF.

I figured that since I have the whole bike apart...it would be a good opportunity to see if this module that everyone is raving about works as advertised/and see if the source of the issue is coming from the PCV or not (which i doubt) If I like the AF-Xied, I can offset the cost of the unit by selling the PCV/AT.

I looked at it this way. The PCV is an amazing tool. But its extremely complex. Not to mention you cant really fart around with the AFR values around idle without the AT constantly fighting the IAC. Half of the reason to get a PCV was to be able to smooth out the idle...which I cannot do with the AT because the bike fights you the whole while.

Other reasons why I decided to give the AF-Xied a try:
-It retains the stock o2 sensor...something I really didn't like about installing the PCV.
-Its relatively cheap.
-Its simple to install/uninstall
-Its adjustable (very limited)
-It only affects the bike in closed loop mode.
-Less invasive than the PCV.

If this works the way it should, I will be a happy man. I am still under the impression that the TPS is the real fault here. When it comes in, I will install everything and report back.

Dan
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05' BMW K1200s Black/Yellow "Bumble"
11' Kawasaki Z1000 Black "The Z"
08' Kawasaki ZX10-R Metallic Black "Batmobike!"
08' Buell 1125r Black "Sadie" (poor sexy Sadie )
92' Suzuki VX800 Blue "Little Blue"
85' Harley Sporty Ironhead "Old Blue"
78' KZ650 - project bike that was never completed.
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