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  #1  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:21 AM
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devonbiker devonbiker is offline
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K&N or Not?

Considering all options, nothings definite yet about selling my K1300R. Just wanted some advise whether fitting a K&N air filter to my bike with the Ackrpovic would be OK? I know it's best with some sort of fueler fitted but whats it like without messing with the fuelling and fitting a K&N?

Thanks
Paul
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:26 AM
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skapan skapan is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

I would not do it. Too many negative or questionable comments about aftermarket filters, and for certain the dealer will give you a hard time unless they are willing to install it themselves.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:36 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Hi Paul

If I was you I'd fit a boosterplug & some helibars. Transformed mine.

No measurable advantage in fitting a K&N.

If you did that and still don't get on with it, both parts would sell quickly on eBay and you would lose a lot less cash than p/exing it.

Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:59 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Click me
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2014, 12:06 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Tests have clearly shown that the way a K+N works (that is, hoping the dirt will stick to a gooey surface as the air whistles through the filter), results in an inferior filter as compared to any modern pleated paper filter. The so-called "technology" that K+N uses is what they used to use in the 1940s and early 1950s, before modern pleated paper filters were invented. The above tests showed that K+N quickly lost filtering efficiency as the gooey coating got coated with dust. Pleated paper filters, by comparison, filtered at least as good as a new K+N, and kept their filtering efficiency longer. As for flow resistance, the K+N was not noticeably better, and you have the hassle of re-oiling it often and disposing of the old crud.
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2014, 12:20 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
Tests have clearly shown that the way a K+N works (that is, hoping the dirt will stick to a gooey surface as the air whistles through the filter), results in an inferior filter as compared to any modern pleated paper filter. The so-called "technology" that K+N uses is what they used to use in the 1940s and early 1950s, before modern pleated paper filters were invented. The above tests showed that K+N quickly lost filtering efficiency as the gooey coating got coated with dust. Pleated paper filters, by comparison, filtered at least as good as a new K+N, and kept their filtering efficiency longer. As for flow resistance, the K+N was not noticeably better, and you have the hassle of re-oiling it often and disposing of the old crud.

BOB, I fully agree with you... BUT many owners in search or elusive performance improvements would rather believe the marketing bullshit of K&N advertising. This crap has been going on for 30 years at least within bikers in garage discussions (and now on the internet forums).

The ONLY use of K&N air-filters is for motocross or racing bike where you expect to clean the filter after every race. Also, the particles going thru is not so much an issue as these racing engines will need engine work often anyway.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2014, 02:58 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

I don't change my OEM Mahle from Austria, filters are definitely important to make tests with other brands or models
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2014, 04:40 PM
ChrisCannin ChrisCannin is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

I fit either a K+N or a DNA on all my bikes if I didn't think they made a difference I wouldn't fit one,even the likes of Rexxer ask what type of filter so the 'Doesn't make a difference brigade are wrong' if I lived in a desert or I was going to put 300,000 miles + then there may be a point of view but as I'm doing neither it's irrelevant,just look on this board folks don't keep a bike more than a couple years so why talk about engine wear,I'd be more worried how often people change their oil than what type of air filter.

The problem!! folks fit pipes and filters and do nothing else which just shows a basic lack of understanding about how an engine runs and what has been done to the bike to get it through the TUV.
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2015, 10:13 AM
Suicyco71 Suicyco71 is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

I have a k&n filter plus an arrow slip on and have had no problem with standard fueling no need for after market ecu suck as power commander.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2015, 10:54 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

I'm innately 'Scotch'; therefore I favor cleaning and re-using rather than shit-canning a $30+ filter every 15 to 20K miles. I had a 85 K100RT that I put a total of 230,000 miles on. At 190,000 miles the compression was tested and cylinder walls were inspected and mic'd. NO visible scoring or wear was present and only one cylinder was down on compression when tested; 5-lbs!
For me the K&N has proven an effective and thrifty choice for all my vehicles since the late 1970's.
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2006 K1200R 'Bebe'
Wunderlich/Rizoma handlebar conversion
Acerbis "Dual road" hand guards
K&N conical air filter
SW-MOTEC crash bars
VERY LOUD "Stebel" horn.
Oberon clutch slave cyl.
Moto-Zen levers
Pyramid hugger.

GONE
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Heated grips
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  #11  
Old 03-10-2015, 02:05 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonbiker
.............fitting a K&N?

Waste of money! Doesn't flow air any better than a stock filter. Doesn't filter any better when freshly "oiled" than the OEM filter, and it gets worse as it is used.
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

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- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2015, 02:12 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FR1956
I'm innately 'Scotch'; therefore I favor cleaning and re-using rather than shit-canning a $30+ filter every 15 to 20K miles. I had a 85 K100RT that I put a total of 230,000 miles on. At 190,000 miles the compression was tested and cylinder walls were inspected and mic'd. NO visible scoring or wear was present and only one cylinder was down on compression when tested; 5-lbs!
For me the K&N has proven an effective and thrifty choice for all my vehicles since the late 1970's.


My old K100 used only OEM filters for over 200,000 KM, and it never burned a drip of oil between changes. Compression was right on factory spec when I sold it. So what was the so-called advantage of using a K&N?
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2015, 04:14 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

The discussion of dubious improvement in engine performance with after market filters has always perplexed me. These bikes make 170-180 horsepower which very few of us will utilize very often, if ever. So, using a different filter to get a supposed performance increase that is useful in the general riding that most of us do is doubtful, and a waste of money, IMHO.
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2015, 09:56 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Gotta love the idea "The louder and more often I say it the truer it is".
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
There are more tests if you care to look. K&N properly sized and maintained has over 1% better air flow.
That is for equal surface area, K&N's for my K1200s were conical whereas the stock ones were flat giving substantially more surface area.
Now we can debate if that is good or bad or useless.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2015, 12:44 PM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
My old K100 used only OEM filters for over 200,000 KM, and it never burned a drip of oil between changes. Compression was right on factory spec when I sold it. So what was the so-called advantage of using a K&N?

Simply that 10 or more "servicing's" of the air filter cost me no more than the time to wash, dry, and re-oil.
__________________
Ride safe, happy and long!

2006 K1200R 'Bebe'
Wunderlich/Rizoma handlebar conversion
Acerbis "Dual road" hand guards
K&N conical air filter
SW-MOTEC crash bars
VERY LOUD "Stebel" horn.
Oberon clutch slave cyl.
Moto-Zen levers
Pyramid hugger.

GONE
2014 Triumph Rocket III Roadster 'Prudence'
Heated grips
Kaoka cruise control
Sport shield/Fly screen
Big o'l chrome engine-bars w/ highway pegs.
CRAZY LOUD "Denali" air horn.
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2015, 04:37 PM
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Former Oilhead Former Oilhead is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Its reusable. In the long run it will save you money.
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2015, 02:27 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Oilhead
Its reusable. In the long run it will save you money.
And cost you a lot of mess and disposal hassles. The money you "save" is trivial.... maybe $15 a year. Big whoop!
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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  #18  
Old 03-14-2015, 02:38 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

I have a quart of K&N oil. I keep it next to my motor oil and filters in a clean cabinet. It will last me many years. I have liquid soap for dishes. I never worry about doing my air filter, nothing to buy or remember. I could keep a stack of paper filters and do the same thing, but it would be more hassle. $10 for oil or $100 for a stack of filters.
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2015, 07:47 AM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

The amount of time and repetitiveness involved to service and clean a K&N plus the cleaning of the intake and throttle bodies is not something an RS or GT owner has time and patients for!!!! They sound cooler but they make abrasive muck that wears out butterflys, their shafts and seats. Going "green" isn't cheaper or better for your investment!
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:00 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
Gotta love the idea "The louder and more often I say it the truer it is".
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
There are more tests if you care to look. K&N properly sized and maintained has over 1% better air flow.
That is for equal surface area, K&N's for my K1200s were conical whereas the stock ones were flat giving substantially more surface area.
Now we can debate if that is good or bad or useless.
Thats 1% in perfectly dry air, add a little humidity and see how that changes the numbers.
An oiled filter will mix with water particles, collect, decrease air flow and cause muck, where as a dry filter will allow humid air to pass and evaporate off.
The K&N has its applcations such as dirt tracks or really dusty areas and can be pulled and cleaned daily or even hourly and where engine tear down is practiced, for normal situation and riding it is just a waste of time, hassle and premature wear.
You have to ask yourself, "how is it possible to have better air flow if in fact it is cleaning the air better? " more pleats or surface area is only for a lager area of collection of dirt and serviceability time, it will not in any way allow more air flow with out redesigning the intake system.
Atmospheric pressure, size of the combustion chamber along with the size of the intake and the air filter housing engineered correctly dictate how much air is allowed in for combustion. An air filter that promotes more "air flow" and "better filtering" is nonsense unless they are comparing a dirty filter with a clean one or are comparing an aftermarket filter that does not meet a specific spec. that the engine manufacture outlines.
K&N seems to promote with trickery and words to get additional market beyond that of the off roaders, where their filter use is perfect.
K&N is now into air box and induction design that does allow for more airflow and actual HP gains but the air filter in of itself as an HP gainer is still a myth but it is a step in truthfulness and real design and outcome of HP gains although it is only around 5% JMO I think a lot of people throw these in and get a better sound tricking the brain into thinking they have more power. Anyone remember flipping the air filter cover over on their Nova or Chevy ll to get that 4 bbl to really scream.
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  #21  
Old 03-14-2015, 10:03 AM
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Former Oilhead Former Oilhead is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
And cost you a lot of mess and disposal hassles. The money you "save" is trivial.... maybe $15 a year. Big whoop!

Au contraire mon frere. Last time I priced a genuine part (13711464916) it was $50 USD.
Off the K&N website their price is $61 (BM-1299). Change your filter twice and you're saving $40.


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Old 03-14-2015, 10:21 AM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Oilhead
Au contraire mon frere. Last time I priced a genuine part (13711464916) it was $50 USD.
Off the K&N website their price is $61 (BM-1299). Change your filter twice and you're saving $40.

According to K&N you will only have to yank and clean that sucker 2 times in the life of the bike (100,000 miles) your saving huge bucks!!!! and I'm changing mine once a season (15,000 miles) embedded with bugs sticks and stones? maybe your increased air flow is really happening. Seriously, if your going that long i would put wire mesh over your snorkel, i have been meaning to do mine but never get around to it, just have to make sure it stays clear of debris.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2015, 11:36 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAK04GT
The amount of time and repetitiveness involved to service and clean a K&N plus the cleaning of the intake and throttle bodies is not something an RS or GT owner has time and patients for!!!! They sound cooler but they make abrasive muck that wears out butterflys, their shafts and seats. Going "green" isn't cheaper or better for your investment!



In over 30+ years and a dozen different motorcycles and cars I've never encountered "abrasive muck" collecting on or wearing out "butterflies, their shafts and seats".

I have always favored re-usable/renewable over consume, throw away, buy again. I personally cannot wait for an electric superbike that gets 200+ miles on a charge. Too never again need fresh oil, filters(air included), spark plugs, or adjust valve tappets etc will be a wonderful liberation IMO.
__________________
Ride safe, happy and long!

2006 K1200R 'Bebe'
Wunderlich/Rizoma handlebar conversion
Acerbis "Dual road" hand guards
K&N conical air filter
SW-MOTEC crash bars
VERY LOUD "Stebel" horn.
Oberon clutch slave cyl.
Moto-Zen levers
Pyramid hugger.

GONE
2014 Triumph Rocket III Roadster 'Prudence'
Heated grips
Kaoka cruise control
Sport shield/Fly screen
Big o'l chrome engine-bars w/ highway pegs.
CRAZY LOUD "Denali" air horn.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2015, 12:37 PM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FR1956


In over 30+ years and a dozen different motorcycles and cars I've never encountered "abrasive muck" collecting on or wearing out "butterflies, their shafts and seats".

I have always favored re-usable/renewable over consume, throw away, buy again. I personally cannot wait for an electric superbike that gets 200+ miles on a charge. Too never again need fresh oil, filters(air included), spark plugs, or adjust valve tappets etc will be a wonderful liberation IMO.
It will over time, cleaning that build up from both the use of a K&N and crankcase venting will get the crud out that sits in the shaft bores. Normal crud from crankcase venting is bad enough and adding even more with a K&N is just adding more work and allow more abrasives muck to attach to the throttle components. again on an engine that is taken apart and rebuilt on a scheduled bases is one thing and that is the reasoning for using a K&N because of the ability to clean and re usability saves money and the components are removed and cleaned on a regular bases anyway.
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Old 03-14-2015, 06:46 PM
DOA DOA is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Bak, please post outside sources to support your statements like I did.
If you cannot find any perhaps you should reconsider your ideas.
K&N has posted
"There is much misleading information on the web in respect to air filtration including the Spicer report linked to this thread. The people making such claims are not accountable for them and the web enables them to distribute this misinformation at random. K&N does not have the luxury of not being held accountable. K&N has a legal and moral responsibility to the consumer and we take it seriously. See http://knfilters.com/MAF/massairpledge.htm for our Consumer Protection Pledge. K&N operates an ISO compliant test facility on a daily year round basis where we test our air filters in accordance with the ISO 5011 Test Protocol to ensure they will protect your engine as well as help your car run better. Furthermore, we are proud to have complete control of our product quality by doing our testing, development and manufacturing in California. Not only have we sold in excess of 20 million air filters worldwide but we continue to be used by many of the top racing teams throughout the world including the winners of the 2007 Baja 1000 and Baja 500 (and the 2008 Daytona 500)."
in response to tests like
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
Where they simply tested a smaller K&N compared to the paper. Instead of the recommended size for the application they used the same filtered area. This negates the advantage of cramming more filter area in the same space that K&N usually advertises.

Something to think about, or you can ignore the links and yell louder.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:53 AM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
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Re: K&N or Not?

Its early and I'm trying to figure out your post, but by quickly going through the links and test I can only come up with one question, is K&N saying that the test performed, linked to your post, is that the test was performed by using a smaller K&N filter and a smaller housing on the same test engine but the others used the OEM housing? and that is why K&N did so poorly? are you saying that the test was purposely set up for K&N to fail? or is it because they did not follow K&N recommended aftermarket intake install? if that is the case then the only test that would really change is test involving elapsed time till restriction, cleaning or replacement, its the passage of dirt that really matters and a modified air box really has nothing to do with that at all unless it is set up with a ventury to pull dust away and captured in a collection chamber , which a lot of off road equipment incorporates because of excess dust.
Don't get me wrong there is proof that a K&N can produce more HP as long as it is incorporated with a modified air intake system, which they sell,
I can see that all day long, even thou it would only add about 8 HP according to test done showing percent gain in other applications but at the same time it will not filter any better, it may filter longer because of size but the same dirt passage will be present because of the media used, that does not change, however there is no system available from K&N for our type bikes to take advantage of that fact the only bikes K&N support are the V twins and ATV applications, and they need it!
Please post any K&N test results using the ISO 5011 industry standard test performed by K&N it doesn't even have to be a caparison test, just a test result. I can find masive info on how they do it but for some strange reason no results. THIS IS A BIG RED FLAG! maybe I'm missing the key word in my searches. I will recant if it is available and shows that the K&N is superior or even equal to an dry cotton paper or what have you filter. K&N test them every day, so they say, so there should be endless test results abound.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:11 AM
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Re: K&N or Not?

I find this fascinating, from the K&N site, after bitching and complaining about the auto industry's irresponsibility of not covering a vehicles "warranty" because a K&N was used.
Its almost laughable when they take in all the kudos of wining races and being among leading racing circuits because their product is used "they are on the wining team" but then you go to their consumer page and you find this:

From K&N consumer page.
WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY OUR WARRANTY
Any K&N product used for 1: any type of racing or competition; 2: any off-road use, custom or modified applications; 3: any off-road or dual sport motorcycle/ ATV use; or 4: any illegal highway use, marine, or industrial applications. All K&N Air Filters not covered by our million mile warranty are warranted against defective materials or workmanship for one year from date of purchase with no mileage limitation. This includes K&N Air Filters sold for ATV's and off-highway or dual-purpose motorcycles.

In other words the only application that is covered is us old codgers rolling down a perfectly paved and dust free road going the speed limit, sorry GS guys.

lets see... they claim that their filters only have to be cleaned every 50,000 miles but yet they wont even cover up to the first cleaning, hell they wont even cover 10,000 miles for an average rider in a year. I'm impressed!!

To me this is "a way out" of being held responsible for any damage to any engine component due of the use of their products, but they claim to be the leaders in the industry and stand behind their product ?.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2015, 09:04 AM
sailor's Avatar
sailor sailor is online now
K1200RS doctor
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Location: Montreal, QC Canada
Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAK04GT
I find this fascinating, from the K&N site, after bitching and complaining about the auto industry's irresponsibility of not covering a vehicles "warranty" because a K&N was used.
Its almost laughable when they take in all the kudos of wining races and being among leading racing circuits because their product is used "they are on the wining team" but then you go to their consumer page and you find this:

From K&N consumer page.
WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY OUR WARRANTY
Any K&N product used for 1: any type of racing or competition; 2: any off-road use, custom or modified applications; 3: any off-road or dual sport motorcycle/ ATV use; or 4: any illegal highway use, marine, or industrial applications. All K&N Air Filters not covered by our million mile warranty are warranted against defective materials or workmanship for one year from date of purchase with no mileage limitation. This includes K&N Air Filters sold for ATV's and off-highway or dual-purpose motorcycles.

In other words the only application that is covered is us old codgers rolling down a perfectly paved and dust free road going the speed limit, sorry GS guys.

To me this is "a way out" of not being held responsible for any damage to any engine component due of the use of their products, but they claim to be the leaders in the industry and stand behind their product .

In addition to the famous quote: "It must be true because I saw it on the internet"
From now on we have another one: "It must be true because the manufacturer says so" ;-)
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jean (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 95,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K1200RS parts for sale here:
http://www.i-bmw.com/classifieds/sho...500&ppuser=144
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2015, 12:32 PM
DOA DOA is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alinor, FL USA
Re: K&N or Not?

HEHE,
have you read your BMW warranty. 3 years and so many exclusions, like:
light bulbs, brake pads, linings and rotor assemblies, clutch plates, steering head,
wheel and swing arm bearings and ball joints, fuses, control cables, poly V-belt
replacement, drive chains, belts, sprockets and pulleys, exhaust pipes and
mufflers for discoloration of finish and rubber items such as hand grips,
heated hand grips, foot rests, foot shift and control cable shields.
Would you buy a bike that had all that fail in the first year?
I am not saying K&N's warranty is worth anything, just that it is typical.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/...C_Warranty.pdf
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2015, 01:15 PM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: At the lake - Meredith N.H., U.S.A.
Re: K&N or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
HEHE,
have you read your BMW warranty. 3 years and so many exclusions, like:
light bulbs, brake pads, linings and rotor assemblies, clutch plates, steering head,
wheel and swing arm bearings and ball joints, fuses, control cables, poly V-belt
replacement, drive chains, belts, sprockets and pulleys, exhaust pipes and
mufflers for discoloration of finish and rubber items such as hand grips,
heated hand grips, foot rests, foot shift and control cable shields.
Would you buy a bike that had all that fail in the first year?
I am not saying K&N's warranty is worth anything, just that it is typical.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/...C_Warranty.pdf
I dont have a v belt, i dont have a chain or sprocket. Bulbs, brake pads, rotors all are common wear parts and would never expect coverage on any of that any way. all the other things listed i have had no issues with other than grips wearing out and an ABS/assist servo unit crapping out but that was 8 years old with over 120,000 miles not bad i must say other than that pesky abs unit that should have been made a safety recall I'm pretty happy with the quality over all.

Where is that K&N test data? just yankin your chain.
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  #31  
Old 03-15-2015, 02:29 PM
DOA DOA is offline
Twisted Wrister
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alinor, FL USA
Re: K&N or Not?

Next to the BMW test data!
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