I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1300 Series Motorcycles > K1300S > "K13S/R" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-20-2018, 02:24 PM
R111S's Avatar
R111S R111S is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 249 Thanks: 24
Thanked 103 Times in 66 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cental Illinois, IL USA
Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

I've noticed of late that when several weeks passes without riding my K1300S (due to Winter Weather) the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleeds down. Upon starting the engine there's a loud clatter from the Cam Chain that quickly ceases as soon as Oil Pressure refills the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner.

So yesterday, after several weeks of it sitting in the Garage, before starting the engine, I tried to rotate the engine via Trans in 1st Gear and then rotating the rear Wheel by hand...didn't budge or maybe I'm just too weak. So Plan-B was 4 or 5 quick jabs of the Starter button so that it doesn't start up but does build oil pressure and refills the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner. I then held the Starter button down and she fired right up with no clatter from the Cam Chain.

And yes I've seen the aftermarket Mechanical Cam Chain Tensioner and I'm not interested in one of those. I like the Hydraulic unit and just needed a way to avoid the start up clatter after it bleeds down.
__________________
'11 K1300S, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Corbin Seat, Low-Beam HID, Centerstand, Illmburger CF-Rear Hugger, Fenda Extenda, Philips 8-LED-DRL, Pair of 18W LED Flood Lamps, Rear Luggage Rack, Grip-Puppies, R&G Aero Sliders, OEM Hard Bags, Stebel Nautilus Air Horn, Bar-End Throttle Lock, Zumo 660LM, Nelson-Rigg Tankbag, Fuel Filler Neck Vent Holes, Aluminum Kickstand Foot, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers. Color: Red/Black.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-20-2018, 03:51 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

This should help a lot. Old age gets those O-rings in the tensioner.
11 31 7 705 460 SET: O-RING SET 1 $13.64
I change mine every other valve check, if I can remember.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Beech' for this post:
  #3  
Old 01-20-2018, 04:45 PM
R111S's Avatar
R111S R111S is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 249 Thanks: 24
Thanked 103 Times in 66 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cental Illinois, IL USA
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Thanks for the Tip Beech! Just thinking outloud...wonder what the OEM O-Ring material is? Maybe try one made of Viton instead?

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viton

"Viton o-rings are an alternative to Buna-N seals in BMW's automobile engine variable timing units, known as VANOS. In the VANOS, the Buna-N o-rings deteriorate. The Viton fluorocarbon o-rings have similar functional characteristics to Buna-N, but with much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics."

I recall the Mechanical Engineers for Large Cat Diesel Engines resorting to expensive Viton O-Rings when other types wouldn't hold up to harsh conditions.

A quick Google search found this seller of Viton O-Rings in Clarkston WA - they have the premium ETP version too:
http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...966b338bd5e572
__________________
'11 K1300S, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Corbin Seat, Low-Beam HID, Centerstand, Illmburger CF-Rear Hugger, Fenda Extenda, Philips 8-LED-DRL, Pair of 18W LED Flood Lamps, Rear Luggage Rack, Grip-Puppies, R&G Aero Sliders, OEM Hard Bags, Stebel Nautilus Air Horn, Bar-End Throttle Lock, Zumo 660LM, Nelson-Rigg Tankbag, Fuel Filler Neck Vent Holes, Aluminum Kickstand Foot, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers. Color: Red/Black.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:42 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 558 Thanks: 57
Thanked 277 Times in 177 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

As long as it doesn't happen on a weekendly basis,

Everything is ok....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:20 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Expense is no problem if you want to up grade. Buy a kit, measure the orings, (not listed on the parts fiche). You only get two orings in the BMW OEM kit For 13$!!!!. So if you buy 20 each of the viton for a buck or so each you can have some oring kits for sale for $10 each. Easy retirement.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Beech' for this post:
  #6  
Old 01-22-2018, 02:30 PM
rs530's Avatar
rs530 rs530 is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 539 Thanks: 218
Thanked 163 Times in 110 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marengo, IL us
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Dan,
You goy my curiosity going about the bleed down, I put my bike away for the winter October 15th and haven't started her since, been covered up with a tender on it, so being 50 degrees today I had to start her up, there was zero noise from cam chain, so if your having issues I'd definitely change out that baby while its winter, maybe your chain could also use an adjustment?? And that's why its so noisy upon start up with a little bleed down.
__________________
2016 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-22-2018, 03:22 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 558 Thanks: 57
Thanked 277 Times in 177 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The Chain is not adjustable.
You can only replace the chain.

The the chain tensioner is a hydraulic/mechanical device.

Oil pressure controls its "tension"

The reservoir on top of the tensioner will loose some or all fluid eventually.
Pushing the bike around the garage or down the drive way for first startup too....

My bike 2005 K1200s, 15,000km since tensioner change will
rattle too at first startup after winter.

Like i said before,
If it doesn't happen every weekend, then its all a.ok
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-22-2018, 09:46 PM
R111S's Avatar
R111S R111S is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 249 Thanks: 24
Thanked 103 Times in 66 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cental Illinois, IL USA
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by rs530
so if your having issues I'd definitely change out that baby while its winter, maybe your chain could also use an adjustment?? And that's why its so noisy upon start up with a little bleed down.

It was even a few degrees warmer here Dan so I went for a ride too. Didn't rattle at all on startup so obviously didn't bleed down since last Friday (3 days ago). It's like Patirique says "doesn't happen every weekend".

My 2011 K1300S has under 15k miles and runs great. I change the engine Oil/Filter at 5k intervals with Shell Rotella T6 SAE 5-W40. I'm confident the Cam Chain isn't stretched.

My Gear-Head Buddies here shared with me that there's a very good Local O-Ring Supplier nearby. I'm going to take the Tensioner out and replace the O-Rings with Viton units.

I'll let you know when it's done and what it cost me for the O-Rings. I'm going for the Viton "ETP" version too since it's the very best of the various types of Viton (A, B, F, GF, GLT, GFLT, XLT, ULT, ETP, AFLAS, and BRFKM) against fluid immunity and has a wide temp range (-21C to 225C) as well.

Check out this webpage for the "FKM Type Comparison Chart" (scroll a little more than half way down):
https://www.marcorubber.com/viton-o-rings.htm
__________________
'11 K1300S, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Corbin Seat, Low-Beam HID, Centerstand, Illmburger CF-Rear Hugger, Fenda Extenda, Philips 8-LED-DRL, Pair of 18W LED Flood Lamps, Rear Luggage Rack, Grip-Puppies, R&G Aero Sliders, OEM Hard Bags, Stebel Nautilus Air Horn, Bar-End Throttle Lock, Zumo 660LM, Nelson-Rigg Tankbag, Fuel Filler Neck Vent Holes, Aluminum Kickstand Foot, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers. Color: Red/Black.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2018, 07:09 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 268 Thanks: 3
Thanked 104 Times in 75 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Did anyone ever get the size of these o-rings? Or a part number from a supplier?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:26 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Good plan, two O-rings for 18$ or so, what a joke. BMW is screwing itself. I'll order up a kit and see what I can figure out. 100 each size from my oring supplier and I bet it will not total 12$ with shipping.
I can see BMW stock, sorting, inventory etc.. Maybe $6 a kit. eh?
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-10-2018, 07:03 AM
ChrisCannin ChrisCannin is offline
Speed Demon
Post: 1,740 Thanks: 1
Thanked 308 Times in 219 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham, UK
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Mine used to do exactly the same but as I said in another post when I went from Castrol 10/40 to 5/40 and the other thing as I never had a centerstand it would be on its side stand and I bought I Ducati style paddock stand so it’s always up right but the bike hasn’t done the death rattle for some years.

And I can leave the bike standing for 6 months and it’s still good.
__________________
S1000XR
K1200r Sport
955 Tiger
R1100s
XT660SM
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-10-2018, 08:44 PM
Wayne H Wayne H is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: ALBANY, OR United State
Question Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCannin
Mine used to do exactly the same but as I said in another post when I went from Castrol 10/40 to 5/40

And I can leave the bike standing for 6 months and itís still good.

To clarify, are you saying you went back to 10/40 and it is now good?
__________________
2014 K1300S
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Touring
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:43 AM
ChrisCannin ChrisCannin is offline
Speed Demon
Post: 1,740 Thanks: 1
Thanked 308 Times in 219 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham, UK
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

As per my post in 2011 I went from 10/40 to 5/40
__________________
S1000XR
K1200r Sport
955 Tiger
R1100s
XT660SM
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:10 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The 5 weight oil pumps up fast! One of the reasons turbo cars use 0 and 5WXX oils.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:24 PM
Wayne H Wayne H is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: ALBANY, OR United State
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Okay, now I see the logic.
I guess there is no check valve in the system so whatever oil is used it is going to bleed down out of the tensioner when the engine is shut down and engine oil pressure goes away.
__________________
2014 K1300S
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Touring
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:16 PM
millers millers is online now
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 7
Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The updated tensioner that BMW introduced in 2007 contained an oil reservoir to prevent chain rattle (or worse) at startup, that was its entire reason for being. It must have some kind of check valve or some method of maintaining the oil in the reservoir or what would have been the point of updating it? FWIW I had startup chain rattle on my original (non-reservoir) tensioner but since it was updated I have not experienced any since, as in none at all, regardless of how long the bike sits (even for months.)

The BMW tensioner works fine although some were not great out of the box (needed a little polishing of bore and cylinder to prevent hangups at low pressure, and perhaps the o-rings can fail over time although I personally have not had that happen.) But once you get it sorted it will work well and in that case the OEM tensioner is a much better choice (assuming you have have also done all the appropriate updates to the early bikes) than messing with manual units which in my view are a poor solution to a nonexistent problem.
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'millers' for this post:
  #17  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:04 AM
paulmogs's Avatar
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2015
Post: 2,227 Thanks: 1,527
Thanked 2,213 Times in 1,066 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mid-Western Australia, Straya mate
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Had me at non existant problem. What are you founding this statement on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by millers
But once you get it sorted it will work well and in that case the OEM tensioner is a much better choice (assuming you have have also done all the appropriate updates to the early bikes) than messing with manual units which in my view are a poor solution to a nonexistent problem.
__________________
Advise is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't. Erica Jong.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:39 AM
millers millers is online now
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 7
Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmogs
Had me at non existant problem. What are you founding this statement on?
I only meant that once you get a good OEM auto tensioner in place it works fine, so where is there a problem that requires messing with a manual unit? As mentioned, if an OEM tensioner doesn't work properly straight away it may need some touch up work, but it's easy and once done you aren't guessing about how to set up a manual one. What's the point?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:02 AM
paulmogs's Avatar
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2015
Post: 2,227 Thanks: 1,527
Thanked 2,213 Times in 1,066 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mid-Western Australia, Straya mate
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Begs the question, are BMW fitting the jump collar over the bottom chain sprocket?
Why? if the 'new improved' tensioner has no problem.

Have a look on APE's website. They make a lot of tensioners for non existent problems.

http://www.aperaceparts.com/protensioner.html
__________________
Advise is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't. Erica Jong.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:46 AM
millers millers is online now
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 7
Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmogs
Begs the question, are BMW fitting the jump collar over the bottom chain sprocket?
Why? if the 'new improved' tensioner has no problem.
That has more to do with the timing of the various fixes than the efficacy of the new tensioner. And the jump guard is a good 'safety net' idea regardless of which tensioner is used. And regardless, how many documented cases have there been of a cam chain failure with both a (properly functioning) updated tensioner and a jump guard in place? None that I'm aware of. What are we 'fixing' at this point?

Quote:
Have a look on APE's website. They make a lot of tensioners for non existent problems
Yes, they do.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP!!! With Southern California Motowerks Cam Chain Tensioner slatanik "K12R" Gen. Discussions 5 08-01-2017 03:14 AM
Socal Motowerks Manual Cam Chain Tensioner slatanik "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 4 06-30-2017 03:24 PM
APE Cam Chain Tensioner billywhizzz "K13S/R" Technical Q&A 78 01-08-2015 07:18 AM
APE manual cam chain tensioner installed Casey "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 56 02-09-2014 02:17 PM
Cam chain tensioner Davo "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 3 10-25-2012 12:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:35 PM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 1.35737 seconds with 16 queries