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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 03-01-2012, 03:10 PM
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GregRS's journey into seal territory

gonna try and do a well written up journey into replacing the rear main seal on a 2002 K1200RS.

i have a leaking seal out of the transmission, and figure i might as well go all out and do it in one shot.

got my parts list together and ordered from bmw. a couple parts had to be special ordered so i anticipate a good week before i have everything needed, but will start disassembly ahead of time.



day 1, the fun begins

decided to go with a wooden platform to get the bike elevated for comfort while working. overall size is 6 foot by 2 foot. should have made it 6.5 feet. its a little tight.
if i had a garage, and funds i might have considered a lift table, but i don't, so gonna do what i can.

i tried to over build the platform since its only made out of 2x4 lumber, with 5/4 decking. 3 inch exterior screws all around, and plenty of them. predrill to avoid splitting.

basic frame, be sure to put it on legs so you can get your jack under it.




half decked. i put solid bridging in to help spread the weight around.




and bike parked on the platform. still have to brace up the front wheel to prevent movement, plus pick up some more lumber to brace the platform legs once it gets raised into the air.






tomorrow will be brace the front end, strip the tupperware, and strap it down for the lifting phase. i put a couple eye lags into the front corners to strap to.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:28 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Thankx for including us in this project... how many miles on this bike? Is this the first time it's opened up?
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:32 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

abouts 31,000 miles. i'm atleast the third owner i know of, so i'm just gonna assume its never been opened up before. it is possible it has all been done already, but i have no way of knowing.

the leak from the rear of the tranny isn't a fast drip, just leaving moisture on the under carriage. driveway is oil free. but decided to go all out with anticipated trips coming this summer, since i have the time.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:09 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

day 2

taking a little break for lunch, figured i'd get a start on todays log.


goodies are starting to come in already




getting naked so i can strap and secure before the lift




and we're off




both ends up and braced





oops, over looked one little step. cross member bolts are behind there too





and my drip, the whole reason for this adventure

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Old 03-02-2012, 01:17 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

EXCELLENT job documenting your work to ... begin your bike work, as well as the teardown to fix the problems with your bike. Looking forward to more photos and documentation of your surgery.

Here's another thread that gives a view of building a workbench for the bikes:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?...ighlight=bench
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:44 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

day 2, part 2


swing arm bearings, cap, thingy magigy was tight enough to make my 3/4 ratchet jump. put the heat gun on it for a minute, while tapping it with a rubber mallet and it spun off with little to no effort.





swing arm pulled in one piece, minus wheel. the drive shaft has to be pryed off, as there is a retainer clip inside holding it on.





drive shaft removed, right side is the output shaft seal, the left side is the cavity the clutch slave cylinder goes into. the oil in there smells like gear oil, not brake fluid. so that slave cylinder would be good, but replacing it anyway.





little bolts holding the abs unit into the battery tray assembly. it is a torx, but i was able to get it with a 7mm socket. a spanner, err i mean wrench would have been alot easier to get to them.






didnt want the abs pump to just be hanging, so i zipped it up to the frame





something to keep an eye on when lifting the frame, or dropping the motor to get the gear box off.





front side of the gear box, dirty, but dry, rest of clutch area was the same.






another oopsie,, this oughta be fun to get back together. guess thats why everyone removes the fuel tank/ air box






gotta determine the life left in this clutch plate. don't know but if i had to guess, i would say its near its end. pretty darn close to the rivets. has 02 printed on it so i assume its original.

update on the clutch plate. gentleman at max bmw went in the back and measured the thickness of a new clutch plate for me and got 6mm, i'm sitting at 6mm on mine, basically new. woot, that saved a few bucks on that one






got all the way to the point of pulling the clutch housing/basket? off the motor and had to stop since i cant find my torx set to remove one of the bolts to stop the plate from spinning on removal.












overall i would say not to bad for 5.5-6 hours time today.

also noticed the timing cover is leaking too. i think that will be another day's task
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:40 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Looks like good progress. Sachs, the mfg. of the clutch, tells me that the new thickness is 5.75 mm loaded. That gives you something to go on to evaluate your disk.

Min. thickness is 4.5 per BMW manual.

My disk was 5.4 mm thk. at 30651 miles. I reused it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:45 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Looks like good progress. Sachs, the mfg. of the clutch, tells me that the new thickness is 5.75 mm loaded. That gives you something to go on to evaluate your disk.

Min. thickness is 4.5 per BMW manual.

My disk was 5.4 mm thk. at 30651 miles. I reused it.


went in and edited my post,,, bmw measured one for me, it was 6mm, right where i'm at.
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  #9  
Old 03-02-2012, 06:17 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
day 2, part 2
.....
.....
little bolts holding the abs unit into the battery tray assembly. it is a torx, but i was able to get it with a 7mm socket. a spanner, err i mean wrench would have been alot easier to get to them.






didnt want the abs pump to just be hanging, so i zipped it up to the frame




I am quoting just one section to which I would like to comment on:

There is no need to remove the battery-box or loosen the ABS-modulator. The type of screws / bolts used and their location makes this a royal pain. When the engine is lowered, it will pivot on the bolts / support of the front engine mounts. If the battery box is not removed, you need to lower the engine a few inches more to remove the transmission, but this does not cause any major problems.

I did not have time to recheck while posting this, but I doubt than the BMW service manual says to remove the battery-box. Before doing this job in 2007, I studied both the Clymer and the BMW service-manual to compare the steps.

As you lower (pivot) the engine enough to remove the transmission, you should watch the radiator hoses and the left side front belly bracket (near timing cover) that will cause interferences. In most cases, it is safer to loosen the radiators from their mounts (clips and washers) ahead of time.

For the same reasons as above, you should loosen the 2 big wires going to starter and alternator before the engine is fully lowered. Same story for the air-box, it should be removed before the engine is lowered.
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2012, 06:38 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

in all honesty, the batt tray wasn't to bad,,, i will agree on the air box and fuel tank though. those intakes i'm sure will kick my butt.
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Old 03-02-2012, 10:55 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Great write up & pics!
Takes me back to mine a few years back, except you're moving much faster. Well done!
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2012, 09:27 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

came up with the idea to bleed out the brakes and abs unit since i have alot better angle of working around the abs unit. shamefully i never got to it last year.

clutch will have to be done anywho
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:16 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Excellent post and fun to follow..to bad its rainy today as I was looking forward to the next installment of posts.....then again, you're probably fabricating overhead shelter as I type this out .

Its also good to know you live relatively close by!
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:57 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

as you said, rain supposed to stop this afternoon, think its over now.

just ran around and got some more goodies, like seal puller pick set, molly 60 paste, and tried to track down some speed bleeders to no avail. gonna have to figure it out.

also got a couple options to try out to reach the one hard to get to abs bleeder. i'll post up if i find a new solution.

rain cover? bah, i don't need no stinking rain cover. regular cover is over the bike though. new seals wont be here from bmw till tuesday. gonna try and bleed the brakes out today, pull the fuel tank, air box and clean oil off all the under carriage parts, and clutch housing, ect,,

mainly just a get ready to go day. hopefully i'll be back on the road wednesday. i'll see how bad those intakes are to put back on.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Excellent write up and photo documentation. Anyone can do the job with a fully equipped BMW shop, only a true mechanic can improvise like this I love it
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

my attempt at making the bleeder wrench, 7mm crapsman ignition wrench





hmm, remove one 10mm bolt and why not just use a 7mm 1/4 inch drive deep socket?dont know if this can be done with the unit in place, worth a looksie

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Old 03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

That is how I bled my brakes. All you need now is to grind down another 7mm socket and use it just for opening and closing the bleed valve.


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Old 03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Last edited by Herb : 03-03-2012 at 01:12 PM. Reason: duplicate post
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:19 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

No need to get hung up on Speed Bleeders. Just use one bleeder in the bleed line, or better yet, submerge the end of the bleed line in some waste oil to make a seal.

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Old 03-03-2012, 04:15 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

removed the fuel tank and air box, really a simple procedure. was able to get the intakes back on with out issue also. big relief there.





got the clutch housing off. hard to tell if oring on the output shaft from the engine was leaking or not. as soon as i started to work the clutch housing to get to the oring oil did start to come out.

the oring had some flex to it, not brittle. broke when i yanked on it though. camera wouldn't focus to get a shot of it, but there where cracks all the way around the oring.







finished off the day with some cleaning of pieces and parts.

almost squeaky clean,,

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Old 03-03-2012, 05:56 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Ouch greasy.....much worse than what I found on my bike. I see the tranny output seal is pretty recessed. That's pretty darn close from the lubehole on the output shaft. I am pretty sure the BMW "special tool" sets them there, not a very good thing looking at the LT guys having that seal leak shortly again after dealer repairs.

I mentioned an updated one at the slave, orange instead of black and also said sillicone. Rechecked some specs a couple days ago and looks more like a Urethane Seal or some other "Viton" related material.

Please tell us you slackened the front engine mounts before you started the jacking up & down.You don't want to break the rubber/metal bond at them engine mounts. BIG PITA to replace that.

Popped them intake manifolds did you....if you want to leave it there the airbox, some have done it with success but you really have to remove the tank and disconnect the air duct, that gives it just enough play to do the job.As you are now with the tank on, you may be ripping that connection off the plastic at the airbox/duct junction. I know, I reconnected my airbox after it popped then proceeded, carefully that time, to jack the motor up & down, reinstalled the tranny etc etc....no problems. But I did have the battery box off the bike so that may have helped there for clearances. Mine popped above that at the seams manifold/airbox and that is no fun to reinstall, so have a look there just in case them popped out.

In any case you should eventually remove the throttle bodies, inspect the breather hose and because I also had corrosion creeping toward the seals at the manifolds/engine block and I see some corrosion on your bike, well that corrosion left unchecked would probably have compromised them green O-rings and cause Vacuum leaks.

Clutch carrier retainer, I made one out of 1" UHMW , eyeballed the holes and angle of contact with the bellhousing then used the Forstner drill bits to deepen the holes so the OEM bolts could catch.10 minutes...done. Someday I'll put in in the planer just to make it look clean.



Because I see corrosion here and there in your pics, when you are at it unplug all the electrical connectors that you can see and check them well for corrosion, none of them are too weatherproof,or even have dielectric greases in them from OEM..... I found quite a few "greening" ones on my bike.

Check that driveshaft good, mine was "FAILED" at that age, I have some interesting pics as to why they fail, had to pull a U-joint out last week to figure that out, I am not impressed but....not for here.

A bad driveshaft will make that seal leak and maybe even blow the bearing in the tranny, a well known fact on some of the other BMW forums, but not here, have to go look at much older bikes to figure that one out.

Leaky timing cover.....that's an adventure on its own, you are right keep that for another day. I certainly found some badly applied BMW sealer there also turning to mush anyway. I certainly don't think BMW used the right product for the job there, much better stuff in the market now for them applications and I'll be darned what the books or the party line have to say about that. Did mine and later realized the oil cooler flange/engine block was also seeping, could have done both at the same time so for now I'll just ignore the other "Seep".

Take the starter apart and clean it.....you don't want the electrical gremlins overlooking that "cleaning" can cause you down the road.

Good job on the bench,that's giving me a little project now that my other BMW is in boxes & pieces....I can start the woodworking. I should have all I need in the woodshed, no need to spend money on that, enough expensive BMW parts on my wishlists as it is.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:59 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

slowly getting around to day 4

think todays task will be remove the throttle bodies, clean them, and replace the crank breather hose. plenty of oil around both ends of it, so it has to be bad.

gonna try and just run to the auto store and get some hose and run it through there.



oh, and see about loosening those front upper motor mounts before i fubar them


thanks to all for my little tips along the way. i am checking stuff you all point out.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:56 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Caught you with them mounts did I.... I see everything, not always a good thing.

Talking about mounts, I hope you read the book, some of them upper tranny mounts shouldn't be loosened up unless you want to re-enlign that tranny and that you really don't want to go there.

Good luck finding something that even looks like that breather hose, but we would like to see what you come up with if the cost is less than BMW. Bloody PITA that thing even just looking at it. That one convinced me to buy a Borescope just so I can look in them crannies.

BTW, the O-rings under the intake manifolds are green ones, also not that easy to find aftermarket. The one under the coolant intake is red, you may also want to look in there, I did have corrosion on the bolts/seat and just in time I got them out of there, another couple years they may just have seized completely.One of them came out looking just like your modulator bolts.

Seriously, if any of them feels funny/tight when you try to remove them, work them out back & forth with some lube to clear the threads, otherwise the threads may just come out with the bolts....not fun to fix that believe me. Galvanic corrosion....Eeeek!

Looks like you may have to replace some of them clamps at the throttle bodies, some of them are not really reusable. BMW sells the screw on type but you have to be really careful when you install them so they don't interfere with the throttle mechanism.

You also should inspect the throttle plates, one of mine was loose and was starting to bind in there....just in case, you really don't want your engine to swallow such parts. That really surprised me finding a loose one, needless to say I did not like that at all.

Reinstall the throttle cables BEFORE you reinstall the throttle bodies unless you like to be very sneaky and waste time later.

Don't put Sillycone lube on any of the air/fuel intake parts, if that gets into the combustion chamber it will pollute your O2 sensor and make it fail. Vaseline is safe.

Put a layer of masking tape on the valve cover/crankcase cover if you work in there....I don't like tool marks/scratches on my stuff and that's too easy to do on them.

Careful if you use seal pullers....you don't want to scratch the surfaces and too easy to do with them pullers. Punch hole with an awl, a screw and the claw hammer way better, took less than 5 minutes pulling all them seals out and that's in the Clymer that method but they want you to drill a hole, I did not want to do that for obvious reasons.

Can you take some pics when you take the tranny output seal out, may be difficult but I'd really want to see where the OEM seal rides vs the lube hole on the shaft. Too many got caught with that "lube hole/seal depth" going back many years. I know they are just fine mounted right flush with the tranny but, lets say I just like to contradict the books and the "Special Tools" sometimes.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Caught you with them mounts did I....

yup, you got me on that one.




day 4's progress;

got the fuel rail and throttle body off, not good. the breather hose is completely done, fubar, trashed. cracks and splits all over it. ordered a new one from bmw.











the injector boots actually look good, bolts are nice and shiny. there was alot of oil everywhere from the breather tube.

the boots that connect to the bottom of the fuel rail are all still pretty pliable.

had a spring off on one of the throttle body returns, got that put back on.


for now i'm at a stand still waiting on parts. all the seals should be here tuesday, and don't know about the crank breather hose yet, hopefully not to long. but i have plenty todo before that arrives.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

[quote=GregRS
had a spring off on one of the throttle body returns, got that put back on.[/quote]

Some people have unhooked one of the springs to reduce throttle effort, something to consider.

That breather looked very messed up!!!
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
Some people have unhooked one of the springs to reduce throttle effort, something to consider.

i was thinking that when i put it back on, i do remember thinking the throttle was stiff when i first got the bike, gonna ponder over it abit, might just unhook it again.



for the breather, i didn't realize how it was before i went in there. just figured it would be like a car and just hook in somewhere. once i seen how it is, no way you'd be able to find a replacement.

i'm sure it could be home brewed for alot less, 4 elbows and 3 tee's would do it. a tee in the middle for the hose running to the crank, tee at #2 and #3 throttle body, then elbow up to #1 and #2, then elbow where needed to route to the crank case. hmm, maybe i shoulda thought about that before pulling the trigger on the beemer part.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:57 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Can you take some pics when you take the tranny output seal out, may be difficult but I'd really want to see where the OEM seal rides vs the lube hole on the shaft.

i will try and remember that for you. but for now,,,

from the face of the housing, its sitting 9/32" in,, or 7.1438mm





from the shoulder, or stop inside the, the seal is recessed 1/32" from that shoulder, or 0.7938mm






also, what involves clean the starter? not sure i understand what needs cleaning.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:10 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
.....In any case you should eventually remove the throttle bodies, inspect the breather hose and because I also had corrosion creeping toward the seals at the manifolds/engine block
Is this the breather hose that most people seem to have trouble with due to age (of the hose)? And, is this what BMW call a "distribution" hose?
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2012, 02:22 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Stiff throttle....before you muck around with the springs clean everything then use some good Teflon Lube at the shafts/pivots. Did wonders to mine.

And yes you can also spray some of that "Teflon" inside the throttle cables to make them slide easy.

Ugly hose....that new one you can lube with good rubber grease, will keep it pliable and may even prevent degradation. Not all that sure yet what gets them, I'd have to say chemical degradation from the wrong lubes applied there to loosen up the throttle.Some of the BMW rubber is not too chemical/petroleum resistant on the outside but you'd have to read lots of specs to get to that conclusion.

Looks like that hose was also making you suck crap into the engine, good thing you got to it.

The outboard one, you can get rid of that alltogether and plug the holes, autoparts stores should have plugs for them nipples.

Now clean them throttle plates and inspect the bore for binding, that also may be part of your stiff throttle as it was on my bike.

If you don't want to use strong cleaners such as carb/brake, Methyl Hydrate (Methanol) does pretty good at cleaning the muck inside/outside the throttle bodies. Cheap, easy to get and won't attack anything but your liver maybe....wear gloves!!!

Ohhhh the starter. I won't get into the why but if any carbon dust in there it may give you some not so very funny electrical gremins re the weird way BMW grounds the Load Shed Relay. Easy to open/clean but make sure you mark the casing/ends so you reinstall in proper enlignment. Methyl Hydrate...also good to clean them starter parts.

You got it there...do it, otherwise it is hard to get out later. BMW/Clymer wants you to go about as far as you are now to get that starter out.....I just don't want to show you the 20-30 minutes sneaky way in later.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:26 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

ok, will see how it comes apart

heres what i got for cleaning the starter, got brake clean too
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:30 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by OfftheGrid
Is this the breather hose that most people seem to have trouble with due to age (of the hose)? And, is this what BMW call a "distribution" hose?

cant say why, i would assume age and heat

from max bmws parts fitch's,,
fuel preparation diagram section
diagram 13_0542 - THROTTLE HOUSING ASSY/CONTROL UNIT

diagram item #5
part#11151465009
item name DISTRIBUTION HOSE
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:41 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

You are cleaning the brushes and the commutator on the armature. Requires starter disassembly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS


also, what involves clean the starter? not sure i understand what needs cleaning.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

OK...I'll stick my pic here, see if you can see how close from the lube hole the OEM seal rides. I am convinced the BMW special tool sets them there....way too close from the hole. Yep I reinstalled mine there and benchtested with the tranny on its side, took a day or so but.....leak again.

Mount it flush with the casing, easier to put it straight that way and plenty of room on the shaft for the seal to ride and no "possibly" installing a new one over a "possible" wear groove or....hitting that darn lube hole.

Bad pic...you can't see the chamfer at the lube hole but it is there and the seal was riding that. Leak....!

Unless....you want to study somewhere the cross-section on them Teflon seals, what happens to them as they wear etc etc.......! There:

http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/~pee...fe%20seals.pdf

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Old 03-04-2012, 03:07 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

the starter


dirty,







all better now, made sure to not hit the bearing with brake clean.



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Old 03-04-2012, 03:30 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

end of the shaft to face of the seal is 1" or 25.4mm

seal size, SHAFT SEAL - 25X40X6 so assuming 6 is its thickness
end of shaft to interior face of the seal will be at 31.4mm or 1.23622047244094"
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:10 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
cant say why, i would assume age and heat

from max bmws parts fitch's,,
fuel preparation diagram section
diagram 13_0542 - THROTTLE HOUSING ASSY/CONTROL UNIT

diagram item #5
part#11151465009
item name DISTRIBUTION HOSE
Thanks, this is a great thread you are putting together.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:30 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

thanks OfftheGrid, i'm trying to not get to technical with the whole disassembly, just some random photos and what not for guidance. and maybe make it not such an intimidating job.

there is already alex's list, and of course clymers.

if anyoen is on the fence of doing themselves, if you think you can handle it, go for it. i'm only on day 4 cause i started my tear down before my parts arrived.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
the starter


dirty,




all better now, made sure to not hit the bearing with brake clean.

Dirty...

Poolish that commutator, that's the grooved copper part where the brushes run onto. Very fine sandpaper should do it as in fine fine....1500 to 2000 Wetdry. Make sure there is no residues left in the grooves or burrs on the edges.

If it is scratched that's not so good for brushes life but they can go a very long way like that. A good auto electrical place can turn them to like new. First "Special Tool" I ever used way back then, the starter lathe and the growler....!

You are doing good....!
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:05 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Polish that commutator, that's the grooved copper part where the brushes run onto. Very fine sandpaper should do it as in fine fine....1500 to 2000 Wetdry. Make sure there is no residues left in the grooves or burrs on the edges.

will do, i'll get some paper tomorrow for something to do. this waiting on parts is gonna kill me.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:33 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Poolish as in Poo !!!!...darn used 500Ml of metal polish yesterday on an exhaust. Pooped out.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:13 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
the starter

dirty,
Ahh the darned starter... I put mine back together with the magnets turned 180 degrees.
I learned the hard way that the starter spins in reverse if the housing/magnets get turned 180 degrees. Imagine my shock when I went to fire the bike up after getting it all back together & hearing the starter just whir... Back in I went to repeat 75% of the work.

If you're not sure of your starter magnet orientation, I also learned that you can bench test the starter to ensure that it spins in the direction that the starter clutches need it to be. Great job on this write up!
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:50 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter
Ahh the darned starter... I put mine back together with the magnets turned 180 degrees.
I learned the hard way that the starter spins in reverse if the housing/magnets get turned 180 degrees. Imagine my shock when I went to fire the bike up after getting it all back together & hearing the starter just whir... Back in I went to repeat 75% of the work.

If you're not sure of your starter magnet orientation, I also learned that you can bench test the starter to ensure that it spins in the direction that the starter clutches need it to be. Great job on this write up!

Now that's funny (or not), I think I read that before I got into mine. The marks on my starter did not mean anything, nothing lined up but....as per Clymer I scratched my own on there.

But yes to benchtesting them with jumper cables, put nut on and connect Positive first then Ground at the case. Doing the opposite, sparks at the Positive post may damage the threads.

Do that in a vise if you can.....lots of torque them starters, may just jump right out of your hands.

75% of the work again....maybe in Clymer or the BMW book, I can get that thing "out and back in" in less than an hour, but for the left fairing and a few fasteners, NO need to cut the bike in half.....again.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:25 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

cheated and used a scotch pad i stole from the kitchen

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Old 03-05-2012, 01:14 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

had a major oversite today, well maybe not, caught my mistake in time.

when i measured my clutch plate, i was in inches, 6/32 which is 4.76mm

ordering a new one. thought it looked a little close to those rivets,,,,glad i caught this and didn't put the old back in.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:15 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

My favorite....Scotch Brite. Wore a couple out poolishing saturday and them were the big commercial ones.

Eh....did you take them intake manifolds out from under the throttle bodies? Them seals are known to fail, you don't want to go back in there for a stoopid vacuum leak later.

There is a gap there under the manifolds, very good place for corrosion to build up. I wasn't joking about that creeping toward my green O-rings. But the worst was under the coolant intake.



A little work with the Grey Scotchbrites, then the Green ones:



Later some sanding at 1500, then checking the flatness and a little "lapping" of the manifolds on an appropriate surface. May give you some clues as to our fights with corrosion, had lots of practice in 30+ years.



LOTS to do as you are waiting on parts.

Lets see them clutch parts, namely the friction plates, if kind of cooked you may want to replace the spring thing, they loose their pressure if heated up.That caught me before ,replacing the friction disk only to have the clutch slip again right away. And that on a BMW where I could get the clutch out in about an hour unlike them bikes.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:18 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

i was cleaning up the clutch parts when i realized i screwed up on measuring the plate

cleaned all the debris off the parts


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Old 03-05-2012, 01:20 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

your scaring me with those damn intakes,, that clutch just put me in the hole for funds,,



cant find them orings on the parts fitch.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:26 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

know the size? can they be had locally?


found'em, intake manifold schematic,,,size 40.3X2.5
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
know the size? can they be had locally?

No size in Max's fiche? I know they have to be the green ones, fuel resistant. Not too expensive from BMW if I recall. The ones at the fuel injectors, holy s..t they want lots for them. Probably no need to replace but them are pretty standard fuel injector O-Rings. Remember...NO SILLYCONE on them, just Vaseline.

Obscure EH! They put them with the Engine, not Fuel Preparation.

There you go: 116 114 651 69,O-RING - 40.3X2.5 $2.16 Ea.

Not trying to scare you, just do it right once. Don't know how you ride, but for me sitting on that bike for weeks at a time, roadside breakdowns and going to a dealer, not in my pocketbook.

BTW....new clutch disk there for $100.00:

http://marketplace.ibmwr.org/ads/kbps

Ouch buddy....I don't like that clutch at all, a little blue that's OK.....but that and blue more on one side than the other. Got an orbital sander? 180 grit wood sandpaper,won't cut into the metal no worries stuff is very hard, then the wire wheel on the angle grinder may clean most of it. But then.....I'd be putting a straight edge on them plates or set up the deflection gauge. And no way I'd re-install the pressure plate/diaphgram spring that came out of that.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:58 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

3/5/2012 1:41:42 PM

It is shown under intake manifold in the MAX parts fieche. Diagram 11_1887
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:01 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

it looked brand new under the intakes,,, maybe that bad breather hose leaking helped in the long run,,
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
it looked brand new under the intakes,,, maybe that bad breather hose leaking helped in the long run,,

Darn you are quick.....Laptop on top of the bike or what? Funny you are probably right with the leaky hose helping. Vaseline them O-rings and re-install.

The clamps, if the throttle bodies go in with the clamps on,they shouldn't really but you can carefully tighten those up after with them straight cutter pliers.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:50 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Enjoying your post, its a job i have to do and your report has encouraged me, great photo,s Len
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:33 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Eh....Budget repairs, I sure understand the budget thing these days.

There is a complete clutch assembly there, not far from you, 6mm on the disk and plates look just like they should at 30,000 miles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K-1200-RS-2000-Clutch-Assembly-/140679734357?hash=item20c12a6455&item=140679734357&pt=Motorc ycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:57 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

already got the clutch plate attached to my order for the breather. should be here in 2 days.



and just incase anyone is curious, no i don't have a snap on box full of tools todo this with.
this pic pretty much shows all i got, minus a few random items, and torque wrench's

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Old 03-05-2012, 06:13 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
i was cleaning up the clutch parts when i realized i screwed up on measuring the plate

cleaned all the debris off the parts



That....all the blue stuff and glazing on the metal plates, not good and not as they should look like at that low milleage. If it cleans up good, if there are no spots & grooves good, if there is no deflection on the plates from all that heat it was subjected to....even better. Understand I don't cook my clutches like that,and very few here do also. Finding such a one during a rebuild ??? Would probably make another addition to my wall ornaments in the shop and send me to E-bay for cheap parts.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:42 PM
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GregRS GregRS is offline
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

both surfaces are smooth as can be.

i've got 3-4k miles on this bike, and do what i can to get off the clutch quickly.
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  #59  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:02 PM
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McFly McFly is online now
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Nice work Greg & for the repair tag along!

I noticed your Clymer manual... have you found it to be handy to have during your project? Thorough with a high degree of detail, etc.? Wish they had one for the K12S!
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:16 PM
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GregRS GregRS is offline
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by McFly
Nice work Greg & for the repair tag along!

I noticed your Clymer manual... have you found it to be handy to have during your project? Thorough with a high degree of detail, etc.? Wish they had one for the K12S!

the detail is pretty good so far with what i've needed it for, the starter for instance and the fuel intake system.

to be honest, really haven't used it to much in the tear down, just when i hit a wall and don't see how something comes out. or something that looks a little fragile, and tricky.

it will mainly be used during my reassemble for torque values.
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