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  #1  
Old 08-05-2018, 03:37 PM
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Exclamation replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Read the install post and am looking at doing my 2003 KGT.
My book does not say how much oil to put in.
My plan was to pull the wheel and the total rt side slider off the bike. Tip it up side down to drain, replace parts and then fill (10w)and install.

Any concrete ideas on the amount to use in one leg? And how to be sure after putting in that amount, it is at the right level?
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2018, 04:09 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Jeff, manual says 1/2 liter.

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  #3  
Old 08-05-2018, 05:05 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

500 cc as I recall it does no more than lubricate serving no damping or rebound function.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2018, 06:15 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
Read the install post and am looking at doing my 2003 KGT.
My book does not say how much oil to put in.
My plan was to pull the wheel and the total rt side slider off the bike. Tip it up side down to drain, replace parts and then fill (10w)and install.

Any concrete ideas on the amount to use in one leg? And how to be sure after putting in that amount, it is at the right level?

Fork Seal change can be done from top without removing lower fork legs.
Although both job method have the risk to change parallel alignment of tubes if not done properly:
- method 1: removing each lower fork leg (to change seal and drain oil)
- method 2: pushing down inner tube from top by rotating triple clamp (to change fork seal)

IF YOU ONLY WANT to CHANGE FORK OIL: Under each lower slider, there is a drain bolt (needs a long and strong allen wrench to reach bolt head). Be mindful to check / clean area and bolt as this seals with an O-RING that you can re-use in most cases. Do the draining with top of fork cap removed (see attached diagram).

Filling is 500 ml (each leg) done from top of fork tube - the large nut over each of the handlebar risers / top triple clamp. I recommend to do the filling when bike is back on side-stand (after wheel installed). This way the fork is partly compressed when time come to install the cap - this reduces the air pocket volume (inside fork) and reduces pressure unto fork seals.

Unless you are a VERY heavy rider and feel everything to be too soft in the front, I would suggest to stay with 5W or 7.5W or 10W fork oil. There is no hydraulic damping or rebound in these forks - oil is only to lube the inner / outer tubes together. Hence grade change has minimal effect.
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File Type: jpg K1200RS_Front_fork_drain_bolts_AND_Fill-plug.jpg (79.7 KB, 9 views)
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2018, 07:33 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor
Fork Seal change can be done from top without removing lower fork legs.

It can, and is quite easy, here's a good thread on the subject. http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=26871
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2018, 09:36 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Did one today.Took 15 minutes.Other will wait until it leaks?If ever but I stuck it under the seat anyway just in case.

Seals at $12.00 Cad/pair. Identical to the OEMs but for brand name?NOK vs BMW NTN?

Many bikes on the road with the same size seals.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:33 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

I know the parts fiche shows O-rings at the fork drain plugs.But my 03 came from the factory with Aluminium crush washers not Orings.

Clymer also shows crush washers on page 92.I must have changed the fork oil 3-4 times over the years and still on my original crush washers.Last winter for sure with some mix of the same brands?5W and 10W if I remember?Nice blue color anyway....!

Drainage? Take your time.Overnight?A fair amount of oil stays trapped between the sliders and tubes.2-3 Oz at the bottom of my forks the next day?

BUT...pretty easy to pump the oil out from the top with a cheap transfer pump.Saves removing the wheel to access the drain plugs.

I would have used ATF instead of overpriced fork oil.But I did have enough expensive fork oil left from changing the purportedly "lifetime" oil in a GS.Ouch nasty looking stuff I pulled out of there....!Seals failure would have followed sooner than later from all the crap in that oil and grits/salty stuff under the dust seals.

Seals? AllBalls 55-108 for $12.83 cad/pair.Approx $55.00 cad for BMW OEMs.

Too soon to tell about durability?Only 70 miles and a few emergency braking practices to really compress the suspension and test my new tires? No leak.....but we'll see on the road soon.Starting tomorrow at 250Ks(kms)?Back in September at 260-265Ks?
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2018, 02:38 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
...
.....
Seals? AllBalls 55-108 for $12.83 cad/pair.Approx $55.00 cad for BMW OEMs.

Too soon to tell about durability?Only 70 miles and a few emergency braking practices to really compress the suspension and test my new tires? No leak.....but we'll see on the road soon.Starting tomorrow at 250Ks(kms)? Back in September at 260-265Ks?

Pierre,

I agree the BMW OEM fork seals are way overpriced, BUT in my mind the "AllBalls" brand is at the other end - often cheap quality seals.

As you said this is common size fork-seals (35 x 48 x 11) and can often be found in many JAPANESE motorcycles dealers (Honda CB750 1970-1982 , Yamaha SR500 1978-1985...)

Have a nice trip ;-)
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:29 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

AllBalls gets their bearings/seals all over the place.The ones from Fortnine sold under the AllBalls name are NTN branded.NTN is the Japanese company that supplies seals to Honda altough they have a large presence in the USAs.

NTN:

https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/corpora...tory_1950.html
So correction to my original post,Aftermarket(All Balls) are NTN and the BMW NOK.

http://www.nok.com.sg/Corporate/nok.aspx

All Japanese?Will match my new tires....!
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2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:02 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
AllBalls gets their bearings/seals all over the place.The ones from Fortnine sold under the AllBalls name are NTN branded.NTN is the Japanese company that supplies seals to Honda altough they have a large presence in the USAs.

NTN:

https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/corpora...tory_1950.html
So correction to my original post,Aftermarket(All Balls) are NTN and the BMW NOK.

http://www.nok.com.sg/Corporate/nok.aspx

All Japanese?Will match my new tires....!

As you said above: "AllBalls gets their bearings/seals all over the place."
This is my complain about the "Allballs" brand - quality can vary greatly depending on the kit you are buying from them.

In general, NTN Bearings and Seals are good quality and are OEM to many motorcycles brand from Japan (as you have mentioned). But, with "AllBalls" aftermaket kits, you will get other sources than NTN sometimes.

QUESTION did I just read you will be riding tires from Japan - are you testing the new Bridgestone T31 ?

I will also need new tires soon and was planning to try Dunlop-RoadSmart III in same price range as the Bridgestone T31. Not interested anymore in Pilot-roads 3 or 4 or 5 - "been there / done that": good grip BUT too expensive and they do not wear well on our K1200 in last 30%.
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:27 PM
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Exclamation Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

OK, read comments - But

Lets say I try to do the job from the top and not remove the wheel or the total rt side from the bike. I suck out fluid and then replace the seal ( I guess you turn the top triple tree out of the way) and then go to fill it one of the amounts you guys have stated. However, people have also stated that you will probably not be able to get t he recommended amount in because you are not pulling out 'all' of the fluid.

So, the question is, how to gauge when to stop adding fluid?
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:29 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
It can, and is quite easy, here's a good thread on the subject. http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=26871

that article is what I read and left me with these two questions.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:58 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
OK, read comments - But

Lets say I try to do the job from the top and not remove the wheel or the total rt side from the bike. I suck out fluid and then replace the seal ( I guess you turn the top triple tree out of the way) and then go to fill it one of the amounts you guys have stated. However, people have also stated that you will probably not be able to get t he recommended amount in because you are not pulling out 'all' of the fluid.

So, the question is, how to gauge when to stop adding fluid?

You just pull the fork tube out through the triple tree, you don't rotate the triple tree.

As for the amount of fluid, a measuring funnel is what you need. You can measure how much fluid you drain out of each tube, and replace it with a like amount, but it is not that critical as it serves no suspension purpose, only lubricant. So if you don't measure how much fluid you drained, put 475 cc of fluid in, instead of 500 cc, then you don't have to worry about overfilling, and there will be plenty of fluid to serve the purpose of lubrication.

To measure quantity I have one of these laying around from my old two stroke pre-mix days, you can source it from any motorcycle shop, I found it on line here, https://www.motosport.com/product/?a...segment=badger

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Old 08-06-2018, 09:21 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

A cheap transfer pump will suck all that fluid out.If you are worried about an oz or two of residual?I just inserted my gun cleaning rod down with a few pads at the end and sopped it out.The bigger shotgun pads.

But not yesterday.....new fluid and I had only seeped out a little so I only replaced the seal.

Transfer pump,just like mine.Less than $10.00 on Amazon but I have seen them on the shelves in quite a few American stores.


https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enter.../dp/B0181EDCZ6
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Yamaha RD200 at 16
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Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:37 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor
As you said above: "AllBalls gets their bearings/seals all over the place."
This is my complain about the "Allballs" brand - quality can vary greatly depending on the kit you are buying from them.

In general, NTN Bearings and Seals are good quality and are OEM to many motorcycles brand from Japan (as you have mentioned). But, with "AllBalls" aftermaket kits, you will get other sources than NTN sometimes.

QUESTION did I just read you will be riding tires from Japan - are you testing the new Bridgestone T31 ?

I will also need new tires soon and was planning to try Dunlop-RoadSmart III in same price range as the Bridgestone T31. Not interested anymore in Pilot-roads 3 or 4 or 5 - "been there / done that": good grip BUT too expensive and they do not wear well on our K1200 in last 30%.

Dunlop Roadsmart III.Made in Japan.

To replace a pair of Korean made but with Japanese technology "economy" pair that also did pretty good for me over the last 7000kms. Plenty of thread left but no on the road tire replacements for me up there.

Give a month....them Dunlops won't have much thread left.
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:23 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
A cheap transfer pump will suck all that fluid out.If you are worried about an oz or two of residual?I just inserted my gun cleaning rod down with a few pads at the end and sopped it out.The bigger shotgun pads.

But not yesterday.....new fluid and I had only seeped out a little so I only replaced the seal.

Transfer pump,just like mine.Less than $10.00 on Amazon but I have seen them on the shelves in quite a few American stores.


https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enter.../dp/B0181EDCZ6

Two good bits of info - the cheap pump and the rod = outside the box.

Thanks all.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:02 PM
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Exclamation Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

One more thing -
when I loosen the pinch bolts for the slider to get it out and do the seal, does it collapse so far down into the bottom tubs to be hard to get out?
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
One more thing -
when I loosen the pinch bolts for the slider to get it out and do the seal, does it collapse so far down into the bottom tubs to be hard to get out?

Well, forget that above.
This job has come to a stretching halt . Can't get the little allen head screw out of the top triple clamp (underneath) to get the bars off . Seems to be a 5mm head (5.5 to large and no US seem to fit). Best fit is a 5mm 3/4 allen socket, but can't get a ratchet wrench on it (the tube is in the way) . Next fit is a stand alone allen tool that I have and can't get enough leverage with it being to short.
Have to get the bars off to get the top triple clamp loose to get the seal out . I'm stuck.
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:51 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
Well, forget that above.
This job has come to a stretching halt . Can't get the little allen head screw out of the top triple clamp (underneath) to get the bars off

Mind, you don't lose that screw down into the bowels of the bike, you'll never get it back out. Ask me how I know.
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Old 08-08-2018, 04:16 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
Next fit is a stand alone allen tool that I have and can't get enough leverage with it being to short.

Hook a box end wrench over the allen wrench to get some extra leverage, or buy a 6" long small pipe nipple to put over the end of the wrench.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

I was just thinking about that screw on the road today.As in probably no need to separate the bar mount from the top plate to slide the tube up or back down.

Loosen the two pinch bolts and see if the tube turns.I bet it does.If it turns it will slide.

I think I may have shortened my other seal change time by 5 minutes.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2018, 12:28 AM
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Re: replacing fork seal 2003 KGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
I was just thinking about that screw on the road today.As in probably no need to separate the bar mount from the top plate to slide the tube up or back down.

Loosen the two pinch bolts and see if the tube turns.I bet it does.If it turns it will slide.

I think I may have shortened my other seal change time by 5 minutes.

you will still need to turn the bars to get them out of the way to pull the slide and remove the seal. Plus, you will have to put a jack under the motor if loosening one side of the suspension
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