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  #1  
Old 12-22-2008, 06:29 AM
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2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Source: 'Motorcycles.com'

2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Interview with BMW reveals new details


The newly unveiled S1000RR literbike from BMW is perhaps the most highly anticipated sportbike of 2009. Despite the German marquee’s somewhat stodgy reputation in the two-wheel world, BMW is jumping into a highly competitive pool of world-level roadrace competition.

We recently had the opportunity to sit down with the VP of BMW Motorrad USA, Pieter de Waal, unleashing a barrage of questions about the S1000RR and what it means to BMW as the historic company reinvents itself.
Much like Harley-Davidson, the ages of BMW riders keep rising. A few years ago the company decided it needed to appeal also to a younger, more adrenaline-driven audience. The affable de Waal explained how they are repositioning the brand closer to the car side of BMW – lighter, more exciting.
It began with the HP line of Boxer-powered high-performance bikes (the HP2 Enduro, HP2 Megamoto and HP2 Sport), then hit a new market with the “hard enduro” G450X dirtbike. Another new-to-BMW market will be served with the introduction of the S1000RR, which will tackle the intensely competitive Japanese literbike segment head on.
There are two major challenges in entering this class for BMW, something de Waal admits is “a high-risk project.”
The first is that the S1000RR absolutely must be competitive with its highly developed rivals. “It’s not like someone is building a bad bike,” de Waal commented. “They’re all extremely good.”
As such, BMW’s RR doesn’t reinvent the ultra-sports wheel, a development process that began 4.5 years ago. The bike has nothing externally visible that is a departure from the class formula. A perimeter aluminum frame and a 1000cc inline-Four powerplant is the same recipe the Japanese OEMs employ. No funky Duolever or Telelever front ends here.


'click' picture to see a larger version

“We had a big reality check in the company,” said de Waal candidly. “Basically, BMW did things to be different, not necessarily because it works better. Now, if anything is done differently, it’s because it works better,” he said, referencing the new G450X dirtbike whose clutch is directly connected to the crankshaft to create an ultra-short engine with its cylinder inclined 30 degrees.
One aspect of the S1000RR that will be different from the rest lies in the cylinder head, according to oblique hints from BMW. The popular theory at this point is some form of positive valve actuation, which basically means pneumatic valves (highly impractical for a streetbike) or a system in which the valves are closed mechanically instead of using springs.
You might recognize the latter method as what Ducati uses in its sportbikes. The term desmodromic comes from the Greek desmos (linked) and dromos (track). Ducati has some patents in this field, so if BMW uses a form of desmodromic valvetrain, it will likely be different in some way. This isn’t an idea new to German vehicles. Mercedes Benz used desmo valves on its championship-winning Grand Prix cars from the mid-’50s.
Speculation aside, the S1000RR will definitely be equipped with dynamic traction control, something quite welcome on a bike with something near 190 crankshaft horsepower; 165 horses at the rear wheel seems likely. Some of BMW’s high-performance cars are equipped with variable-length intake manifolds, so we might see something similar on the 1000RR, although de Waal wouldn’t admit as much.
As for the bike’s appearance, keep in mind that we haven’t yet seen exactly what the production bike will look like. We’re told to expect something exciting and less generic than what we’ve seen from the prototype racebikes thus far. With no new ground broken in the chassis design, we’re told to expect a fueled-up production bike to weigh in under 450 pounds, right around the tally of its Japanese competitors.

Breaking into this market won’t be easy, but there are a couple of factors that make it financially feasible.
First, de Waal notes that consumers in this market aren’t very brand loyal – they are looking only for the maximum performance and the best appearance, he says. Second, the literbike market can be lucrative. There are about 220,000 of the sports machines sold annually worldwide, so even just 5% of that pie equates to more than 10,000 bikes. And BMW isn’t looking to poach from their existing customers with its new sportsbike, as de Waal says 90-95% of S1000RR owners will be conquest sales for the historic brand.
If BMW wants to make a dent in this competitive market, it can’t offer up a boutique-style $40,000 streetbike. Although BMW is known for being one of the pricier brands, the company is aiming to keep the MSRP of its RR to within about 10% of its Japanese rivals, now priced around $12,000. As such, when the S1000 arrives in December of 2009, we hope to see it priced at about $14,000.
To keep its costs down as much as possible, component sourcing from other manufacturers and countries will be critical. BMW already has contracted Taiwan-based Kymco to build the G450X and G650 single-cylinder engines to BMW specs. We might expect a similar arrangement for the S1000RR.
Despite these turbulent economic times, World Superbike is ramping up for a renaissance season in which there will be factory-supported teams from no less than seven manufacturers. New to the series is the V-Four-powered Aprilia RSV4, plus BMW’s S1000RR. De Waal says BMW decided to enter WSB racing (not MotoGP) to prove a BMW production bike can beat the competition.
The S1000RR has already had a couple of public on-track displays, most recently at South Africa’s Kyalami circuit as part of a WSB post-season test on December 10-12.
Trackside observers say the pitch of the BMW’s exhaust note is higher than the other four-cylinder machines, giving credence to the theory that the S1000 revs higher than its competition. It’s also worth noting that the WSB rules have been revised for ’09 to remove rev-limit restrictions (14,000 rpm) for engines with a bore/stroke ratio of 1.5:1 or greater, so the RR will likely have a bigger bore and shorter stroke than its 1000cc competition, and the mysterious new valvetrain will allow for sky-high revs.
Although blessed with a two top-shelf riders in the form of multi-time WSB champion Troy Corser and perennial contender Ruben Xaus, the lap times logged at Kyalami showed the BMW near the back of the pack thus far, although it’s still early days for the developing German bike.
Of the 13 bikes at the test, the BMWs were in 11th (Corser) and 13th (Xaus) places in terms of best lap times over the three-day test. However, Corser’s pace was only 1.4 seconds off the quickest lap, and just slightly less than a second behind the developed Honda CBR1000RR of MotoGP veteran Carlos Checa.
“I am reasonably happy with what we achieved these three days because I always knew it wasn’t going to be easy,” said Corser. “In fact, the times we did were a bit better than I thought they would be. We weren’t chasing lap times here because we wanted to get to understand the bike first and that’s why we also didn’t use any electronic aids, like traction control for example.”


'click' picture to see a larger version

With the daunting task of competing with such heavily developed competition, it’s yet unknown if BMW will be ready to race at the season-opening round in Australia on March 1. We’ll know more after the next round of tests at Portimao, Portugal on January 24-25. However, it appears likely the S1000RR won’t be ready for prime time until perhaps the third round in April, according to a BMW spokesman. To qualify for inclusion in the WSB grid, a manufacturer has to produce a minimum of 1,000 bikes by the end of that season’s year.
In a class segment so highly competitive, customers expect a new or heavily revised bike every two to four years, and BMW acknowledges this product cycle and is willing to step up to the plate. De Waal told us that noted American designer David Robb is already working on a successor.
Looking further into the future, we can expect some big things from BMW. The company is set to spend in 2009 the most the motorcycle division has ever spent on research and development, according to a recent interview with Hendrik von Kuenheim, general director of BMW Motorrad.
Von Kuenheim also hinted at a new version of its luxury-touring bike, rumored to have a six-cylinder engine and on schedule to debut within two years. “I can’t comment on that, but let’s just say that traditionally BMW does have a lot of six-cylinder history in our automotive division,” the BMW head honcho told journalist Alan Cathcart.
Von Kuenheim also mentioned the company has been researching the supersport market. He says his engineers are split into factions who are pushing for either a Twin, Triple or Four. ““I think we have made our minds up what engine to go for,” he told Cycle News. “But, right now, I could not give a positive go-ahead because the business case isn’t there yet.”
Whatever the case, watching the progress of BMW over the next few years should be highly entertaining.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2008, 07:01 AM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Some personal speculations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by article above
One aspect of the S1000RR that will be different from the rest lies in the cylinder head, according to oblique hints from BMW. The popular theory at this point is some form of positive valve actuation, which basically means pneumatic valves (highly impractical for a streetbike) or a system in which the valves are closed mechanically instead of using springs.
You might recognize the latter method as what Ducati uses in its sportbikes. The term desmodromic comes from the Greek desmos (linked) and dromos (track). Ducati has some patents in this field, so if BMW uses a form of desmodromic valvetrain, it will likely be different in some way. This isn’t an idea new to German vehicles. Mercedes Benz used desmo valves on its championship-winning Grand Prix cars from the mid-’50s.

We are still wondering conserning the 'new' Valve-train-system.. What are we to expect...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by article above
Trackside observers say the pitch of the BMW’s exhaust note is higher than the other four-cylinder machines, giving credence to the theory that the S1000 revs higher than its competition. It’s also worth noting that the WSB rules have been revised for ’09 to remove rev-limit restrictions (14,000 rpm) for engines with a bore/stroke ratio of 1.5:1 or greater, so the RR will likely have a bigger bore and shorter stroke than its 1000cc competition, and the mysterious new valvetrain will allow for sky-high revs.

..this follows the above and are this the 'BIG competitor gain' that BMW are waiting for.. IOW; Do they have a bike that will 'over-rev' the others and by this gain its access to the throne...?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by article above
Corser. said: “In fact, the times we did were a bit better than I thought they would be. We weren’t chasing lap times here because we wanted to get to understand the bike first and that’s why we also didn’t use any electronic aids, like traction control for example.”

I have high-lighted 'traction control '.
This is 'Good News'...:
We did know that BMW never used the 'qualifier tires'.. due 'adjustments' where the words.. But that they made lap-times like they did at Kyalami, without the use of 'Traction control'... well that is gooood news. IOW The BMW S1000RR are 'able and willing' to shatter the lap-times of Kyalami.. I would state 'easily'.. as they told us before: The Bike, both Corser/Xaus said this too, has enough raw-power, the aim is to get these abilities transfered to the road... and guys...why do they have the traction-control system... namely just to do that.. Transfering power to the surface for an optimum of Performance...

I almost cant wait to see the real results of The BMW S1000RR, when 'adjustments' are done....
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:48 AM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

HMMMMM... 1.4 seconds off the pace with traction control and the rest of the electronics turned off, think BMW is sand bagging????
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:36 AM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

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Originally Posted by Karlb
HMMMMM... 1.4 seconds off the pace with traction control and the rest of the electronics turned off, think BMW is sand bagging????

It would appear they aren't showing their hole cards just yet.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:35 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Interesting reading. It was also a bit funny to read that BMW has (in the past) designed some things just to be different...and not necessarily to be better.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:49 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Interesting reading. It was also a bit funny to read that BMW has (in the past) designed some things just to be different...and not necessarily to be better.
Yeah, I had that one tagged as well. “Basically, BMW did things to be different, not necessarily because it works better." Not quite a news flash, but it's nice to see BMW admit it.

Now thay need to paint that thing. Everyone knows what carbon fiber looks like.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:02 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Interesting reading. It was also a bit funny to read that BMW has (in the past) designed some things just to be different...and not necessarily to be better.
It is a funny and revealing quote ... I'm kind of new to BMW's... only been riding them for 5+ years, but that was my impression of BMW from the very beginning... they always seemed like kind of oddball bikes to me...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:04 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

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Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Now thay need to paint that thing. Everyone knows what carbon fiber looks like.

I think it's got a good chance to look nice with some bright colors on it...and no, not the BMW livery colors. Even if it is a Jap "clone"...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:06 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
I think it's got a good chance to look nice with some bright colors on it...and no, not the BMW livery colors. Even if it is a Jap "clone"...
Speaking of oddballs...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
It is a funny and revealing quote ... I'm kind of new to BMW's... only been riding them for 5+ years, but that was my impression of BMW from the very beginning... they always seemed like kind of oddball bikes to me...

If the BMW boys were reading our forums they would have seen that "musing" by our members on more than one occassion.

So Mr. Chas, you care to characterize the folks that buy "oddball" bikes?
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
So Mr. Chas, you care to characterize the folks that buy "oddball" bikes?
Walk into your bathroom, stand in front of the sink, and look straight ahead...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:10 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

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Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Speaking of oddballs...

Takes one to know one. Afterall, you're the one that did the "oddball" observation.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:11 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Takes one to know one. Afterall, you're the one that did the "oddball" observation.
Can't argue with that one... how incredibly boring it would be to be "normal"...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:11 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Walk into your bathroom, stand in front of the sink, and look straight ahead...

OK...I did that. Now what?

I do see a very handsome young fellow looking back at me! Oh, sorry...it's just my reflection.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:12 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
OK...I did that. Now what?

I do see a very handsome young fellow looking back at me! Oh, sorry...it's just my reflection.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:13 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

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Can't argue with that one... how incredibly boring it would be to be "normal"...

Yeh...you don't have to worry about that. So I guess that makes you abnormal.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:13 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Walk into your bathroom, stand in front of the sink, and look straight ahead...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:14 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

We really know how to f*%k up a good thread in a hurry, don't we Doug??
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Hey, by-the-way...I'd like to point out that it was YOU that wrecked this thread. I'm here just to defend myself...Mr Supermoderator.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:16 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarthog

You'd better watch it Don. Charlie is not above kickin' you in your bad laig...anything to get an advantage!
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:27 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Doug, must I remind you that you're still on probation, and my patience with you is wearing thin??
Now, back on subject before we both get reduced to "banned spammer" status. Sure, the S1000RR's were at the back of the pack, but lets put that in perspective... we're talking about 1.4 seconds behind highly developed bikes in what was practically their maiden voyage... I think that is phenomenal. I will venture to guess that they will regularly finish in the top ten this season and perhaps on the podium. After a season of development, who knows?? Now, if BMW can just get Troy Bayliss to come out of retirement...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:32 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Now, if BMW can just get Troy Bayliss to come out of retirement...

Geesh. To finish your thought, "...come out of retirement to ride for BMW!"

I don't think havin' him back on Ducati would help the "cause of the home team".
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:40 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Geesh. To finish your thought, "...come out of retirement to ride for BMW!"

That was actually my thought, so I edited my post...
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:09 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
If the BMW boys were reading our forums
Dont you think they do Doug...??

Remember when they 'invited us all to a track-trial at Nurburgring??? To 'test' The K1200S.. They where very spesific conserning 'revealing rumors'... We then had Greg Gorman as a member, he made a lot of valuable promo for The KS.. for 'them'....

I am convinced they read 'all' forums.. they even have employees doing nothing else then 'read the market'.. and the market are at the forums... my 2 cents

BTW: Who was in that mirror Charlie...
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:31 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by locus
BTW: Who was in that mirror Charlie...
Doug keeps this picture taped to his mirror...
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:36 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

thats true Doug....
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:11 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by locus
thats true Doug....

Nah...that's actually Charlie. He was on his way to NYC for a date with Flyboy!
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  #28  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:27 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

sportbiking has many POVs & bmw's entyr into that narrow focused endeavor

will be appreciated by some

many of those hot hyper performance bikes are priced in a very narrow range

no less many of the performance enhancements are very similar products
that are bought to deliver very similar results
in fact some are interchangable

the average buyer of those hyper models will spend on average another $5k

in performance goodies & accessories within days or weeks of purchase

a bike costing 10-11k that can run 9 sec 1/4s & 180mph+
an investment of $5k can pump it up even further

yet a bike costing 15k or more initially may actually be out of range for many

in comparison if that 15k makes neither cut...........it wont sell well

w/o a doubt they are lookin for performance & its easily delivered on a relatively
reliable platform that few can exceed the performance results delivered

i dont know what a 1000rr will cost
many can only divine the performance envelope
it has the potential to deliver & compete altho
price may be the largest factor to healthy sales & the competitive edge
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  #29  
Old 12-25-2008, 06:20 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Regarding pricing ------------ Ducati's superbike is way more expensive than the Japanese bikes.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2008, 08:49 AM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnowhy
Regarding pricing ------------ Ducati's superbike is way more expensive than the Japanese bikes.
thats why their not very popular
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  #31  
Old 12-27-2008, 04:50 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnowhy
Regarding pricing ------------ Ducati's superbike is way more expensive than the Japanese bikes.

by comparison i agree

yet the most recent article i read yesterday suggests the same concern exactly as i expressed it

it was presented to a BMW rep directly about the obvious "premium"
thru out the model line

the response was they are tryin to bring it out within $1000 of the ZX14 & busa

my point exactly
asked
& answered
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  #32  
Old 12-27-2008, 06:23 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Hi Red. BMW will sell a lot of S1000RRs if that is the case. Maybe they can see fit to bring the price of their whole range closer to that of the Japanese competition.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2008, 03:37 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnowhy
Hi Red. BMW will sell a lot of S1000RRs if that is the case. Maybe they can see fit to bring the price of their whole range closer to that of the Japanese competition.

possible that bmw will......................

its obviously a factor when someone is looking at several bikes from diiferent

manufacturers................price is a huge factor

when one is clearly levels above or does some distinctly different

$$$$$ might not be factor.......seldom the case

the 1300 will be Directly compared to that genre of Hyper Performance Bikes

setting an elitist level with no other comparisons wont help sales

it will Have 2 b priced right & run Strong
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:25 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tail
possible that bmw will......................

its obviously a factor when someone is looking at several bikes from diiferent

manufacturers................price is a huge factor

funny price has never been a huge factor for me in deciding what bike to own, other than exotically priced bikes (read 25k+ for me) once you get below 20k I dont ever think price difference between makes at all, just what do I want to own.
I would think this is more the norm for those in their 30's and above as by then most of us are making a living wage and can afford (within reason) just about any bike we want to ride) certainly 2-3k in price difference isnt going to be a deal breaker to a lot of folks if the bike calls to them, just ask ducati
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:40 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

all the KTM dealers will protell you different about the RC8

nice bike .........Aint sellin

pprice point was a Major factor on the Kawi Concours
they nailed it..............................& caught many people attention
at that price point

ducati has always been a boutique marque
with little comparing
getting 25--30 & 75k+ plus for a bike is what they do

sell living room art

when the w2 starts to get phat
i agree its Not a major consideration
yet when the bikes are the direct competition performance & category

it is
the new bmw will be competing against established marques
in exposure.... sales & racing
if its priced at a premium many will asked..................what makes up that difference

most dont mind paying morer if they can quantify the advantage
yamaha has rededicated themselves to racing this year
there are reasonable expections from bmw this year
i for one hope they set the bar high & exceed expectations

more competition is always a goood thing

but if they dont deliver
this model could falter
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:12 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tail
all the KTM dealers will protell you different about the RC8

nice bike .........Aint sellin



I agree with you on the RC8. A striking machine!Kinda off topic, but I would sell my wife for a KTM X-bow. (If I had a wife that is)
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:08 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

The S1000R will be priced under $14,000 USD. How do I know? A fast friend who will be spending a lot of time with one in 2009.

I can't wait to see the valve mechanism BMW choose. I'll bet we'll be able to see the bike up close and personal at track days sometime this year/ Hopefully soon, but its anybody's guess.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:25 PM
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Re: 2009 BMW S1000RR – A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Arcane
The S1000R will be priced under $14,000 USD. .
conventional wisdom would say your correct, I for one cant wait to be able to see one in the flesh. If the bike is all it shows to be so far (to me at least) I will own one, if not, I will get a used 1098s, used Mille factory or RC8 to share the garage with the GSA any way I look at it I win
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