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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:15 AM
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Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

hey folks...

been doing a little maintenance on my '01 K12Rs. I had a little timing cover leak as well as a minor leak in between the water and oil housings of the pump. nothing major, just needed to clean and make a new liquid gasket.

everything has gone pretty well so far, but i ran into something i don't quite understand in the Clymer manual and i was hoping for some help.

this is the part in the manual i don't understand. i placed red arrows on the image to show the "play" that i see. the main part is the one highlighted in yellow:


in the CAUTION area it indicates to check the impeller for any detectable play as this can be a sign that the housing/drive gears are not properly centered with the output shaft.

first, i don't see what they mean by the gears being centered on the output shaft and second no matter what i did the housings, if i turned the impeller there was a little backwards and forwards play but nothing side to side. i feel that this play is normal as the gear teeth have very small spacings between their faces before they engage each other. i did part b when i installed and still no change. i manually turned the engine and the impeller seems to turn just fine.

i hope i've explained this well enough.

thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2010, 02:12 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

The gears being referred to do double duty. They provide a gear reduction to the water pump, and also act as the oil pump. Because they act as an oil pump, the tooth clearance (between meshed teeth) is almost zero. If there was more than a few thousandths of an inch tooth clearance (as shown by your red arrows), your oil pressure would suffer badly. The test (shown by the red arrows) is a red herring, and totally incapable of the precision needed to determine excess tooth-to-tooth clearance. The way to test tooth clearance is with a feeler gauge between the mating gear teeth.

The gears also fit into the housing with nearly-zero clearance between the tips of the teeth and the housing bore. Any increase in clearance large enough to produce a noticeable side to side clearance will result in a near total loss of oil pressure. In other words, a side to side test for clearance is basically pointless, because if the clearance were this bad, you would have noticed the oil light coming on at idle already. Once again, the only test for tip clearance that is any value at all, is to use a feeler gauge between the gear tips and the housing.
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:42 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

hey, thanks for the response, and please bare with me...

basically, i don't need to worry so much about this step in the manual. Do up the seal and mount it on the bike...ok...

after i had the pump mounted i grabbed the impeller with my fingers and i was able to turn it a few degrees in one direction and then back and that is what the arrows represent, they don't really point to anything. it was a very minor movement and in all honesty it seem fine to me.

i'm not sure which O-ring you are referring to as there was no other o-rings other than the 2 red ones that go on the water passage. was there supposed to be an oring that i needed to put on the output shaft after i slid the drive gear on the shaft? i didn't see anything about this o-ring in any diagram nor was there one in the pump when i too it off. the only other o-ring i see is #21, but i have no idea where this goes. (21 | 11411460403 | O-RING - 13,3X2,4 )

also, i used Permatex "Right Stuff" for everything.

thanks again.



maybe this image can help in discussion

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Old 12-10-2010, 06:09 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

My original comment about an O-ring was confusion on my part. I was thinking of the way the same oil pump mounts onto the K100 engine, which uses the same basic engine block as your bike. I later deleted that part of my response, but it looks like you saw it anyway.

That O-Ring is not present on your bike so ignore my comment on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deciacco
basically, i don't need to worry so much about this step in the manual. Do up the seal and mount it on the bike...ok...
Exactly.

Quote:
after i had the pump mounted i grabbed the impeller with my fingers and i was able to turn it a few degrees in one direction and then back and that is what the arrows represent, they don't really point to anything. it was a very minor movement and in all honesty it seem fine to me.
If the actual gear set was moving that much, your oil pump would be total trash! What is happening is that you are feeling the slack between where the small gear attaches to the output shaft. Nothing to worry about.

By the way, O-Ring #21 just seals where the oil pickup goes into the block. Nothing to do with what you are working on.

Quote:
also, i used Permatex "Right Stuff" for everything.

Just as long as it is a high quality silicone sealer.
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:14 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

Excellent! Thank you so much for you help. I'm much relieved and look forward to finishing up.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:01 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

I made this a sticky...RFW to the rescue once again
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:21 PM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
I made this a sticky...RFW to the rescue once again
Blush!
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:32 AM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

Just a quick note.... Permatex "Right Stuff" is in fact a silicone gasket sealer or gasket maker. BMW recommends their "Drei Bond" which is in fact a silicone product made by the Japanese company "Three Bond" (the German "drei" = "three"). Looking at the data sheet for "Right Stuff", it looks to be at least as good as Drei Bond (probably better), or Permatex's "Ultra Grey" that I have had good success with for gasketless sealing.

Just remember to use a very thin layer. When you bolt the parts together, the stuff squeezes out the edges, and you do NOT want globs of hardened silicone floating around in your cooling system!
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Bob.

No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:14 AM
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Re: Water/Oil Pump Clymer Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by summer
guys my car was over rev'd in 2nd gear. It was only driven about a quarter mile after that, but the check engine and oil lights both came on. it starts and the oil light is still on. then idles pretty rough, possibly a miss. Is the oil pump in the oil pan? or a timing cover? any ideas guys?

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Welcome to the site, but, this is a BMW motorcycle forum, you sure you're asking your questions in the right place? Nevertheless I expect that someone here will have some info for you.
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