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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 08-14-2010, 09:08 PM
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Remove final drive

Looks like I need to remove my final drive to be repaired or replaced with a used one.
I'm 180 miles from the shop and do not want to risk riding it there.
I see I do not have the correct size allen wrench or open end wrench to remove the large nut at the back of the paralever where it meets the final drive.
The allen size looks to be about 12MM. The big nut is bigger than my largest socket, which is 27 MM.

I went for ride today and one time I thought I felt a slight vibration in the pegs. When I returned home I did the push pull on the rear wheel and can feel a slight amount of play. I checked with Debbie's bike and there is 0 play on hers.
When I turn the wheel I do not feel or hear anything, but when I put the bike on the centerstand start it up, and put it in gear I can hear a little grind each rotation.
I'll drop the final drive oil tomorrow, but with the play in the drive and the noise, it looks like it needs repaired.

I'll check threads this week and read my manual and probably deal with it next weekend.

At least this did not happen on a trip.
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2010, 09:02 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

That sucks, but please post pics of your repair. Your maintenance thread recently was excellent and I'm sure others may want to watch along as you go through this repair. Okay, okay, maybe it's me that wants to watch. Good luck with it.
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  #3  
Old 08-15-2010, 09:53 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Good Morning Lee,

Bummer!

We all would enjoy another of your fine photo and write ups of this job.

Standing by with coffee and smokes to watch! LOL
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  #4  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:39 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarnes180
We all would enjoy another of your fine photo and write ups of this job.




I was hoping someone had already covered the final drive removal, but I have not found a thread so far.
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  #5  
Old 08-15-2010, 11:21 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Best of luck with this. Two things to repeat to yourself as you through this process:

"Opportunity to excel" and

"No hill for a climber".


IIRC, the 12mm hex wrench can be improvised with hex stock and a socket wrench to twist the stock. I did this with the Concours (front axle clamp bolt[s]??). Sorry I can't think of a hack for the >27mm socket. If nothing else, there's always McMaster-Carr - if they don't have it, you probably don't need it.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:46 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Maybe these links will help.

http://227708.com/Other/bmwclutch01.html

http://www.largiader.com/removal/

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/final-drive-seal.shtml

http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4083

Good Luck
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  #7  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:49 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
Best of luck with this. Two things to repeat to yourself as you through this process:

"Opportunity to excel" and

"No hill for a climber".


IIRC, the 12mm hex wrench can be improvised with hex stock and a socket wrench to twist the stock. I did this with the Concours (front axle clamp bolt[s]??). Sorry I can't think of a hack for the >27mm socket. If nothing else, there's always McMaster-Carr - if they don't have it, you probably don't need it.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thanks for the wrench sizes. The local parts store has a 30MM socket, but it 1\2 inch. My torque wrench is 3/8" I guess I can use a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter, but that may throw off the torque???
I'm going to check Napa on Monday and I can alway have one of the guys at the Chevy garrage order what I need from Snap On.
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  #8  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:50 PM
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Re: Remove final drive


Thanks for the links David.
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  #9  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:54 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

I thought of another question.
I see I need to heat bolts, in order to soften the loctite, to remove the brake disk.
Do you use a heat gun for this?

I'm guessing the removal of the final drive is not hard, I just want to have a clear picture in my head and have all my ducks in a row before I start.
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2010, 01:26 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

A heat gun (or even a hair drier) used judiciously will work -- the idea is to only soften the Locktite, not to melt any plastic or rubber nearby.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=880
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2010, 03:16 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

I may need to talk to the shop Tues. because after more checking today, I’m not 100% sure the drive is bad.
I’m confused now after draining the drive oil today, there was no fuzz on the drain magnet. Yesterday I thought I heard some clunking in the drive when it was on the centerstand running in first gear. When I tried that again today I think I’m hearing slope in the driveshaft. I compared it to my Debbie's K1200RS and her bike sounds the same.
I do have a slight amount on play when I push pull on the wheel. My wife’s bike has no play.

I would think if there's any play at all, the bearings in the drive are getting bad.

Would a bad U joint give me play in the wheel?
I did make sure the wheel bolts are tight

I just made another check.
I pushed the brake pads back to get rid of that noise and spun the wheel while listening to a large screw driver pressed up against the drive.
I can here a faint tick each rotation. I did not think to do this when I had the oil out.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2010, 04:05 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Thanks for the wrench sizes. The local parts store has a 30MM socket, but it 1\2 inch. My torque wrench is 3/8" I guess I can use a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter, but that may throw off the torque???
I'm going to check Napa on Monday and I can alway have one of the guys at the Chevy garrage order what I need from Snap On.

Going from 1/2" to 3/8" drive (or vice versa) won't affect torque readings. Think of it this way, you can torque a nut to 25 ft/lb with a 1/2" socket or a 3/4" socket; different socket sizes, but the torque wrench doesn't need to be adjusted for that. What does throw a torque wrench off is to offset the socket from the center of the wrench's head. There are multiplier tools which give you a lot more torque by adding an arm between the wrench and socket; the readings have to be adjusted accordingly.

- - - -

On the U-joint question... I don't know diddly about Beemer shaft drives. NTL, I can't see a U-joint in a shaft doing anything to the side to side play in the rear wheel. I can see a bad u-joint causing increased drive train snatch (well duh!), but I don't think that's your complaint. If you push across the wheel (side thrust, perpendicular to the rotational plane of the wheel) and it moves in the direction of the push, that says, to me, wheel axle bearing woes. But, as I said, I don't know diddly about this stuff.
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2010, 06:44 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
What does throw a torque wrench off is to offset the socket from the center of the wrench's head. , to me, wheel axle bearing woes. But, as I said, I don't know diddly about this stuff.

I was worried that the 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor would let the socket flop a bit throwing off the reading.
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2010, 06:52 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Just wanted to mention the great service from the folks at Beemerboneyard.
I emailed them figuring I would not hear back until Monday and I've had two replies from them today, which is Sunday, if you all read this later.
Mike at the boneyard mentioned it could also be pivot bearing if I do not have shavings on the magnet.

I also had a good PM from RFW and I'll copy it here if it's OK with him.
It sounds like the final drive will not fall apart tomorrow.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2010, 07:17 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I was worried that the 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor would let the socket flop a bit throwing off the reading.

As long as everything's concentric, it doesn't matter. There's play in the wrench's ratchet, for example, as well as some slop in even a 3/8" socket to 3/8" drive. If you're using a beam torque wrench, it really doesn't matter. If you're using a click-stop wrench, I suppose the slop might give a bogus "you're there" feeling, but compared to the real click, it'd have to be at the very low end of the wrench's range before it'd be confusing. Bottom line: not a problem.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:02 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
If you're using a beam torque wrench, it really doesn't matter. If you're using a click-stop wrench, I suppose the slop might give a bogus "you're there" feeling, but compared to the real click, it'd have to be at the very low end of the wrench's range before it'd be confusing. Bottom line: not a problem.

I have the click type, but if I have to change the drive, I need a bigger one. I see the one nut needs 160 Nm and mine only goes to 110.
It looking like I may not have to change the final drive, so the torque wrench will not be a issue.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:42 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Ah, the domino effect... ain't it grand? The final drive goes Tango Uniform and you have to buy a new torque wrench to handle one nut. The fun never stops, does it?

Here's hoping Beemerboneyard can save your day.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:52 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Here is a copy of a PM from RFW

Rear wheel play is generally accompanied by metal stuck to the magnet. Not grey-colored metal "powder", but rather, metal bits that look distinctly like tiny flakes and are fairly bright silver. The flakes are (usually) the result of the large ball wheel bearing Brailling. A bearing on its way out has increasing play, eliminating the normal 0.002~0.004" preload. With the preload gone, you get the beginning of play in the rear wheel.

But there can be other causes of play that do not result in magnetic metal bits. One is if either the big ball wheel bearing, or the taper roller at the other end, spins on its shaft, or its outer race spins in its housing, and wears a few thousandths of the aluminum housing or shaft away. In this case, reassembly with Loctite 601 Bearing Retainer will be useful. In either case, what wears is the aluminum shaft that the taper roller mounts on, or the aluminum housing that the big ball bearing seats in. I had both these problems with my old K100.

One thing for sure, failure on your bike is not about to happen suddenly. I rode 40,000km on my K100 after I discovered play. I just kept an eye on it. the fact that you are not seeing the results if bearing brinelling is a very good sign.

A slight amount of play is no big deal, so long as you make a point of checking for increasing metal bits (especially the bright silver "flaky" types) on the magnet. Drain the RD oil twice a year to keep tabs on things (oil's cheap!), and also MEASURE the rear wheel play at the rim, in mm, at several points around the circumference, and RECORD it. Then check every few months to get an idea of how fast things are changing.

Note that if you do remove the rear drive, be SURE to observe correct torque on the rear drive pivot bolts (that attach the RD to the swingarm)! One side has a very high torque rating, but the other side is only inch pounds! Tighten that one too tight, and the casting will crack!

One general point.... most dealers are totally incompetent when repairing rear drives. Almost all mechanics that I am aware of, simply replace a bad bearing using the same shims. This is in direct violation to BMW's repair instructions, which say that you must measure the preload whenever a new bearing is installed, and reshim as needed to get the correct preload. Each bearing has significantly different end play! To make matters worse, BMW's suggested method to determine preload, is incapable of producing the needed results to the required level of accuracy. I came up with a different way that (at least for the K100) was more accurate.

Regards,

Bob.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:55 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

More good info from RFW.

There are 2 pair of pivot bearings. One pair is located at the rear end of the swingarm (one bearing on each side of the swing arm) that allows the RD to swing up and down with respect to the swingarm. The other pair are located at the front end of the swing arm, and they allow the swingarm itself to swing.

If one or the other pair are not torqued to spec, the bearings will be loose, and the entire RD will have side to side play if the rear pair are loose. If the bearings at the front of the swingarm are loose, then checking the rear wheel for play will result in the entire RD AND swingarm wiggling side to side.

Have a second person push and pull sideways on the rear wheel, while you check for swingarm and rear drive casting play... in other words, does the entire RD and possibly the swingarm too, move a bit when pulling and pushing on the wheel?

But I emphasize... there is no need to turn this into an emergency dealer visit. Ride it and monitor the situation! There are no indications of imminent bearing failure.

Note that if the problem turns out to be a bearing race has spun, and worn a bit deeper groove in the casting (or in the shaft's shoulder, in the case of the inner race of the tapered roller), I doubt that a typical mechanic would notice it, and even if he did, it is unlikely he would know about the proper solution (Loctite bearing retainer compound). So listen carefully to the guy to see if he really understands the details of rear drives... most don't! And if his normal procedure is to simply replace a bearing, and reuse the shims without accurately determining preload with the new bearing, then walk away!

Note also.... this problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the pinion shaft or any of its bearings (they are a bitch to install and get proper gear contact. Ask me how I know!). Similarly, there is almost certainly no problem with the tapered roller bearing that is opposite to the big ball wheel bearing (other than the possibility that it spun on its aluminum "shaft" and cause a bit of shaft wear). Anyone suggesting these are the problem doesn't understand basic principles.

My educated guess here (having seen it before) is that the bearings are in good shape, but either....

1. The inner race of the tapered roller has spun against the aluminum shaft that it is mounted on, and worn a bit off the shaft's shoulder, thus reducing the preload.

2. The outer race of the big ball bearing has spun where it is pressed onto the RD cover, and has worn a deeper groove, thus also reducing the preload.

The solution for "1." above is to verify that the gear tooth clearance is still within the spec range and correct if necessary, then recalculate the require preload shim thickness for the shim behind the big ball bearing.

The solution for "2" above is simply to recalculate the require preload shim thickness for the shim behind the big ball bearing.

Just so you know, the shim that is used on the taper roller shaft is ONLY for setting the correct gear tooth clearance, and the shim used with the big ball bearing is ONLY for setting preload.

Regards, Bob
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:13 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

I had planned to take the bikes in this fall to have the fluid changed in the control circuit. I'll have the dealer check the play in my rear wheel at that time.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:59 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I had planned to take the bikes in this fall to have the fluid changed in the control circuit. I'll have the dealer check the play in my rear wheel at that time.
I searched for a pic of the RS final drive but couldn't find one. The large nut on the inside of teh swingarm has a lock screw inside of it. This is for the paralever freeplay ad has is not related to the bearing failures. If you have freeplay holding the tire/wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock, but no (or almost no)free play at 6 and 12 o'clock, is is just this paralever adjustment and not the wheel bearing.

The freeplay can be removed without the "special" BMW wrench but it is a bit tricky. Wish I could feel you from here Lee. Hopefully your dealer can do a proper diagnosis.


p.s. If you have much freeplay at 6 and 12 you're just another goat in Kentucky.
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:38 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
If you have freeplay holding the tire/wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock, but no (or almost no)free play at 6 and 12 o'clock, is is just this paralever adjustment and not the wheel bearing.

The freeplay can be removed without the "special" BMW wrench but it is a bit tricky. Wish I could feel you from here Lee. Hopefully your dealer can do a proper diagnosis.



Thanks Tim, I did not know that. I'll check the freeplay both ways tonight.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:52 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Lee, check out this video from the LT site on replacing the rear drive bearings.

http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:46 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Lee, check out this video from the LT site on replacing the rear drive bearings.

http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv
Hmmmm, Lee! Are you at home or in some distant service station side lot?
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:40 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Lee, check out this video from the LT site on replacing the rear drive bearings.

http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

Thanks Rick, but I was only planning to swap my final drive for a used one. The way it sounds from some of the replies I probably will not need to do that.
I'll still watch the video when I get home for the education.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:44 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Hmmmm, Lee! Are you at home or in some distant service station side lot?

You mean like this


No I'm home and have plenty of time to have the problem looked at.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:40 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Ooooohhh... that can't be good - all the tupperware off in the mini-mart parking lot. Wha' happened?
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:41 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
Ooooohhh... that can't be good - all the tupperware off in the mini-mart parking lot. Wha' happened?

If you knew me, I'd tell you I had the urge to do a deep cleaning on the bike, and you'd believe me

Actually a QD broke. The damp area around the bike is from wiping it down with soapy water so the cases would not stain.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:49 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
If you have freeplay holding the tire/wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock, but no (or almost no)free play at 6 and 12 o'clock, is is just this paralever adjustment and not the wheel bearing.


I have a little freeplay at 3 and 9 and hardly any at 6 and 12.
When I say a little play at 3 and 9, it's very little. I feel it more than I can see it.
As you well know I'm a little fussy (don't laugh) so when I felt a little play I thought I better figure out what's wrong.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:53 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

FYI.........I made this thread a "Sticky"..so it won't get lost down the road
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:12 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I have a little freeplay at 3 and 9 and hardly any at 6 and 12.
When I say a little play at 3 and 9, it's very little. I feel it more than I can see it.
As you well know I'm a little fussy (don't laugh) so when I felt a little play I thought I better figure out what's wrong.
If you only feel a little and can't really see it you aren't usually in any trouble yet.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:38 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Rick, thank's for posting up that video - its most informative, and makes the rebuild of the rear end appear to be less of a black art than I thought it might be. Good luck Lee.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:46 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Just finished the video. I now know where the pivot bearings are and finally see what the shims are all about.
Thanks Rick.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:56 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Here's some pics & a tool list, though I'm only sure this would be 100% valid up through the '02 KRS, as I think they changed some FD stuff in '03. It's an FD spline lube, but you have to take the FD off to do it. I've done this probably 4-5 times now.

http://www.unlikelyprofessor.com/beemer/fdsplines.html

It's not hard, but do take your time.

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Old 08-19-2010, 10:06 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiba
Here's some pics & a tool list, though I'm only sure this would be 100% valid up through the '02 KRS, as I think they changed some FD stuff in '03. It's an FD spline lube, but you have to take the FD off to do it. I've done this probably 4-5 times now.

http://www.unlikelyprofessor.com/beemer/fdsplines.html

It's not hard, but do take your time.

--chiba

Thanks for the good info.
I'll open a new thread showing the link and make it a sticky.
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:20 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
I searched for a pic of the RS final drive but couldn't find one. The large nut on the inside of teh swingarm has a lock screw inside of it. This is for the paralever freeplay ad has is not related to the bearing failures. If you have freeplay holding the tire/wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock, but no (or almost no)free play at 6 and 12 o'clock, is is just this paralever adjustment and not the wheel bearing.

The freeplay can be removed without the "special" BMW wrench but it is a bit tricky. Wish I could feel you from here Lee. Hopefully your dealer can do a proper diagnosis.


p.s. If you have much freeplay at 6 and 12 you're just another goat in Kentucky.
Tim, you were right
My final drive is fine and the pivot bearings are fine. Just needed a pivot bearing adjustment. $36

I went to Kansas City today to have the brake fluid changed in the control circuit and had the Tech check the final drive. Only took him a few minutes to figure out the problem.
It wasn't a very fun ride down this morning. Lightning light crazy and raining hard when I left in the dark at 6:00 AM. The first 30 miles or so I could only go 40 to 45 MPH because I could not see. Well, I could see when the lightning bolts flashed
60 deg. when I left and mid 80s when I arrived in KC. 57 deg. and black clouds when I arrived home.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:08 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Remove final drive

eppe rboy:
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:06 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Good deal!

A little late to this thread, but regarding proper torque settings...

The will be times when you just can't get a socket in where you need it, or don't have the right socket/driver. Its come up for me on driveshaft bolts, exhaust nuts, and the various large nuts and allens on driveshaft housings.

Proper torque settings don't require a torque wrench (though that's the easiest way to go most of the time). IOW, if you can get any sort of box-end or open end or even allen wrench onto or into the fitting, all you need is an extension of some sort and a "fish-scale". Sometimes there's some math to do, but you can usually keep that easy.

IOW, if you need to torque a large allen to 120 ft lbs (let's say), insert an allen wrench, put a pipe on it, and measure a set distance on the pipe. In this case if you measure 24" out, you can just put on the fish scale and run it to 60 lb. (120/2 for the 2 ft. extension). Seems crude but should be about as accurate as a torque wrench, assuming your scale is about right.

If you need to use a box- or open-ended wrench, try to keep the angle at 90 - otherwise there's some add'l math to do, but Google came up with this page that explains everything and includes a calculator:

http://www.freeinfostuff.com/TorqueE...eExtension.htm

On combination wrenches, you can often get the drive of a torque wrench to fit into the open-end, with the box-end on the fitting. That's what's always worked for me on the one or two K1200RS exhaust nuts that are hard to get a socket on.
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Old 04-11-2011, 03:32 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

i'm having trouble removing the left, inner pivot pin. I was able to very easily remove the lock nut, but the pivot pin seems to be pretty tight. I used a heat gun on it set at max temeperature (1000, which is more like 800 to 900 probably) and it is still hard. I can loosen it a bit and move it back and foth, but it gets to a point where it feels pretty stuck when I try to loosen it and pull it out. even with a long braker bar it feels too hard and I'm afraid to go further and strip the threads. I'm guessing the thread lock is the cause, but I would think the heat gun would take care of it.

here is the gun that I'm using: http://goo.gl/zrQpZ

shouldn't this be an adequate gun? is there something stronger that I should be using?

the pivot pin on the other side came off very easily.

thanks.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:45 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Bloody Loctite on Aluminium/Alloys.....%^&*(^*(%$*( ^&*(()))$%^%@

Sorry about the rant, I've been through that before, pulled the threads right out, not my screw up either, but got to fix it.Glad it wasn't a pivot pin.

Keep heating it up and get some penetrating lube in there. Slowly work it back and forth trying to gain a bit each time. Take your time, lots of time, it should free out eventually.

I don't have much patience for them noisy heat guns,too wimpy to heat up a large mass of metal. I usually get the torch out but ....gotta be careful! I'd just shield the paint, heat the pin, but that's me and I have a couple thermometers.

No need for Loctite in there, I just rechecked mine yesterday and everything was still "In specs" after a year.
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:05 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

After many hours of frustration I was able to remove the free bearing pivot pin from the swing arm. i don't know what happened, but it appears as though the two were fused together. Even with heat I was not able to easily turn the pin to remove it. Eventually, it came out but now I need to re-thread the bore.

does anybody know what size tap I need for the free bearing pivot pin?

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Old 04-15-2011, 11:32 AM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by deciacco
does anybody know what size tap I need for the free bearing pivot pin?
If it is item 15 in the diagram below then it is:

P/N: 33172335110 / PIVOT PIN / $26.68 / 24mm X 1.25


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Old 04-15-2011, 12:10 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

you're right, i didn't even think to look there. thanks.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:25 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by deciacco
you're right, i didn't even think to look there. thanks.
Need a tap?

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT...-SearchResults
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:26 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

i'm glad you sent me that link, i wasn't having much luck...now i need to decide if i want to replace the whole swing arm or try to tap it out. I can get a swing arm for about $100 from ebay and the tap is $60...i'm worried about not being able to tap it out straigh and true.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:24 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by deciacco
i'm glad you sent me that link, i wasn't having much luck...now i need to decide if i want to replace the whole swing arm or try to tap it out. I can get a swing arm for about $100 from ebay and the tap is $60...i'm worried about not being able to tap it out straigh and true.
But... then you have to replace the whole swing arm, and the pivot pins that attach the swing arm to the frame are a BEYATCH to remove. Try the tap first.

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Old 04-15-2011, 03:01 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

thanks for the motivation sign there...went ahead and ordered the tap...will report back
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:21 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Lee's is an old thread, but still quite useful. I recently changed tires and 'suddenly' heard and felt a strange sound and vibration. It really reminded me of tire whine and feel. So, since the Pirelli GTs were a new tread and profile, etc, to me, I assumed that was likely the cause. Nope. No change in sound or feel at any lean, not affected by brake application front or rear, pitch and frequency only change with speed, nothing else. Hmmm, must be bearings, lets try the front first since that is relatively easy and cheap to have done. Ordered the parts and had Dave at The Zen House in Point Arena, CA do the job. Nope, no change, but the bike has 137,000 Miles and it had been a while since they were done, so, okay. Testing the rear wheel by myself, pulling at various clock points, some movement felt and seen, but hard to tell if it was the pivot pins or not. So, I raised it up on the center stand and ran it a bit. TONS of bucking and jiving....so I ordered a used drive shaft from BBY....In the meantime, I had various PMs with Pierre and Vox. Came to the conclusion (especially since my Wilbers shocks are 1/2" longer than stock) that my diagnosis was in error and sent the drive shaft back without even opening. What is left? Check the gear oil and see if it is a small amount of paste or lots of it plus larger particles. But, while on a short ride, I decided to confirm more about the feel and sound. Sure enough while coasting with the engine off on a slight downhill, I could confirm that the grinding feel and sound were at the same rate as the rear wheel rotation (should be 2.75 times per wheel rotation if it was the drive shaft...). So, I went ahead and ordered a 45k mile FD from BBY. It arrived with minor damage due to its prior association with an exploding drive shaft. But, nothing structural and once installed you will never see it inside the swing arm and boot. I did decide to use the inner pivot bearing races from my FD just in case since there was minor abrasion on the 'new' ones. A day or two later I spent 3 hours start to finish in my gravel driveway doing the R&R of the final drive. Since you pretty much get gear oil on anything you touch, I opted not to take photos as this is all documented well elsewhere. First thing was to drain the gear oil and this confirmed a LOT of filings on the magnet and it was much more coarse than paste. I could feel small grains of metal through my nytril gloves, though no outright flakes of any real size were seen. So, I pulled the old FD off and since I did NOT use thread lock to reinstall the pivot pins when I did the clutch R&R in 2006, these came off very easily, as did the brake disc retaining screws - no heat gun needed to my surprise. Install went smoothly after cleaning up all the bearings, races and splines and applying a generous coating of BMW red grease I bought when doing the clutch job (only 2" are gone now out of the entire tube). The rear ABS sensor gap is in need of adjustment, but it takes a long thin T25 to remove it to get to the adjusting screw....later. So, I cleaned everything up, changed clothes and put on ATGATT approved outerwear and took it for a test spin. YES! Smooth again. It was really an easy job and would have been even easier with a garage space, etc. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this and all the other threads on FD repair.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:51 PM
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Re: Remove final drive

Updated..(there is a question for RFW, Lee, or other knowledgeable folks at the bottom)..So, my wife and I finally sold our bed and breakfast, got our 'green cards' for temporary residence in Mexico, and are shipping down what little money we have left after capital gains, to finish the house in San Miguel de Allende. With this in mind, I finally took my original final drive to Zen House in Pt. Arena where Dave rebuilt it for me in less than a week from drop off to pick up. Just over $500 all told. Took it home and on Saturday this week, had him mount up a set of PR-4s so I can ride it down to SMA when we move at the end of September, '18.
BUT!!!
I did not refresh my memory by re-reading the posts above and on final installation of the inside pivot bearing (fixed outside at high torque, inside at about 7), I overtightened the bearing and it got kinda notchy. I backed it out, reread the torques I had just read and found my error.
Since fixing this error properly involves total removal of everything I had just finished installing followed by driving out and replacing the bearing set with a new one that I don't have (I looked at the ones on the 'spare, and they are indented).I finished buttoning it all back up. Did a test ride to the bottom of my driveway, 1/4 mile. The rebuilt FD was immediately noticeably smoother than the 'spare' I had just removed, which was WAAY smoother than the original when I had pulled it 2 years ago.

Question: Can I ride it 3,500 freeway miles as is? If I know I am going to R&R this bearing as soon as I can get settled, what are the drawbacks of leaving it as it is until I can do that? I can't forsee any damage to other parts, the rollers can't escape and cause damage. But I am certain the plastic cage for the roller bearings has been compromised and the whole thing needs to be R&R'd.
Thanks for your patience and considered replies.....You will all be welcome to stop in and visit when on your next ride through Central Mexico!
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