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Poll: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?
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Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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  #1  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:01 AM
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Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Old 01-29-2009, 11:13 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

An alternative would be to make helments optional but to have a differential in insurance for those who choose to go bare. In the event that someone who states they DO wear a helment (in order to get the lower rate) gets into an accident without one they should know and agree in advance that their insurance covering themselves will be voided.

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Old 01-29-2009, 12:32 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Insurance should have nothing to do with it.

We are required by Federal law to wear seat belts, drive and ride DOT approved hehicles, AND obtain a state drivers license before we can use our highways and roads[except walking and bycycles ].

If the beaurocrats[sp?] feel that we should be protected from ourselves, they definately have the right to require helmets.

I think that it is pretty obvious, in the states that do not require helmets, That many motorcycle riders do not know HOW to ride, much less bothering to protect themselves.
If you don't have 3,000 pounds of steel [and seat belt] to protect you, a helmet is a nice alternative.
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Old 01-29-2009, 01:12 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
...We are required by Federal law to wear seat belts, drive and ride DOT approved hehicles, AND obtain a state drivers license before we can use our highways and roads[except walking and bycycles ].
One thing that I personally have never driven nor intend to drive is a "hehicle"... not that there is anything wrong with that... just seems too "alternative" to me (like riding a green GT).

As for the poll, it is apparent that the motorcycling lobby is more active than the driving population because of the clear seatbelt comparison. There is no doubt that wearing helmets increases safety yet they are not required though seatbelts are. There IS doubt as to man-made Global warming yet the Govt tells us that we have to use specific light bulbs but they do not inject themselves with helmets, cigarettes, etc...
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Old 01-29-2009, 04:59 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
Insurance should have nothing to do with it.

You don't feel that insurance rates would be cheaper if the injuries/deaths and associated costs were lower? When I lived in a state w/o a helmet law it pissed me off that I had to subsidize other rider's stupidity.

Woody nailed it......we need a tiered level for those that wear a helmet and for those that don't. Funny, but I got a reduction in health insurance by being a non-smoker. When I was young and before there were seat belt laws, I got a reduction in my car insurance for agreeing to wear a seat belt. Never a hint of one for wearing a helmet (or any gear for that matter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
We are required by Federal law to wear seat belts, drive and ride DOT approved hehicles, AND obtain a state drivers license before we can use our highways and roads[except walking and bycycles ].

If the beaurocrats[sp?] feel that we should be protected from ourselves, they definately have the right to require helmets.

Yes, driving is a privilege, so they DO have the right to make laws concerning it. There are many that yell wearing a helmet is more dangerous because you are not as in-tune with your environment, it hinders your hearing sirens and horns, etc......and, yes, a smaller contingent claims that seat belts cause more harm than good and that there shouldn't be a seat belt law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
I think that it is pretty obvious, in the states that do not require helmets, That many motorcycle riders do not know HOW to ride, much less bothering to protect themselves.

So, you think that riders in states w/o helmet laws are worse riders? What does where you chose to live have to do with your riding skills or lack there of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
If you don't have 3,000 pounds of steel [and seat belt] to protect you, a helmet is a nice alternative.

I agree!
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2009, 06:58 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htheater
You don't feel that insurance rates would be cheaper if the injuries/deaths and associated costs were lower? When I lived in a state w/o a helmet law it pissed me off that I had to subsidize other rider's stupidity.

Insurance rates are not based on motorcycle head injuries. Many more car drivers can't pay their medical injury expenses than motorcyclists. The cost of head injuries for mc riders is too low to be of any consequence [compaired to the number and cost of auto and other injuries]

Woody nailed it......we need a tiered level for those that wear a helmet and for those that don't. Funny, but I got a reduction in health insurance by being a non-smoker. When I was young and before there were seat belt laws, I got a reduction in my car insurance for agreeing to wear a seat belt. Never a hint of one for wearing a helmet (or any gear for that matter).
I get a reduction for MSF training [and another 5% for being an instructor]. I also think that any one that rides a bike should have to go through formal training [and a harder riding test to get their license]. Motorcycle licensing in Europe is much tougher than in the US. And they are better overall riders [and car drivers].

So, you think that riders in states w/o helmet laws are worse riders? What does where you chose to live have to do with your riding skills or lack there of?
I didn't say that [and no, I don't]. Pirate did a poll on number of crashes on this site and 175 riders had mutiple crashes and over 100 had at least one. If they had not been wearing helments, - How many of our group, would now be dead, or brain damaged??

I have friends who ride down to SC, and when they cross the state line they take the helmets off. "like to feel the wind in their hair" they say. Does that make them a better or worse rider? No, just more likely to have head injuries in SC than NC [and, in my opinion, stupid].

This is really a moot point here, as most, if not all, the people probably wear helmets [at least most of the time] but it is an important issue.

As you can probably tell, I feel that safety is too important to leave to the individuals judgement, especially when he doesn't have all the facts needed to make the judgement.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:23 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

a tiered insurance, or no-care if injured without a helmet is never going to happen. You can't even get higher premiums for smokers, obese people who do nothing to keep themselves fit and cost immensely more in the long haul than a couple of head trauma bikers each year. Its ludicrous that its not a universal law and testament to the validity that laws have little to do with common sense in this country and all to do with lobby, vocals and perception.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:24 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
Insurance rates are not based on motorcycle head injuries. Many more car drivers can't pay their medical injury expenses than motorcyclists. The cost of head injuries for mc riders is too low to be of any consequence [compaired to the number and cost of auto and other injuries]

I am not sure where you are getting your info, and, maybe mine is old, but, when I lived in Texas years back there was an article written by the state insurance commissioner that claimed the medical part of the insurance rate was double what it would be if there was a helmet law. Since the insurance rates are set by his department, I assume he knew what he was talking about.

In fact, my rates did drop dramatically when Texas enacted a helmet law (it was later repealed), so, I know he was right.

Maybe you are right and they wouldn't lower them now, but they did back then.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:29 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

You cannot legislate good judgment. I think Darwin should settle this argument for us.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:31 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911f
a tiered insurance, or no-care if injured without a helmet is never going to happen. You can't even get higher premiums for smokers, obese people who do nothing to keep themselves fit and cost immensely more in the long haul than a couple of head trauma bikers each year. Its ludicrous that its not a universal law and testament to the validity that laws have little to do with common sense in this country and all to do with lobby, vocals and perception.

I agree that the tiered insurance won't happen, but we can dream.....just like the fair tax! I also agree that many laws have little to do with common sense!

As far as smokers, I disagree. I get a substantial "non-smokers" discount on both my health insurance AND my life insurance and have for years. I have to renew my health insurance ever year and have to sign an affidavit that I have not, do not and will not take up smoking. My policy has substantial penalties if I do.

Once again, maybe times have changed for the life insurance as I have had that policy since college and every agent who tries to tell me that they can get me a better deal with term life is shocked at the rates I have on this policy (when I got it, Southland Life said it was an experimental policy and I was part of the test group....the rate is stupid low for whole life and term life wasn't as popular way back then).
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:41 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
Insurance should have nothing to do with it.

We are required by Federal law to wear seat belts, drive and ride DOT approved hehicles, AND obtain a state drivers license before we can use our highways and roads[except walking and bycycles ].

If the beaurocrats[sp?] feel that we should be protected from ourselves, they definately have the right to require helmets.

I think that it is pretty obvious, in the states that do not require helmets, That many motorcycle riders do not know HOW to ride, much less bothering to protect themselves.
If you don't have 3,000 pounds of steel [and seat belt] to protect you, a helmet is a nice alternative.

SO what if the gov. decides that motorcycles are too unsafe no mater what. What if boats are too unsafe, or bicycles, or skates, or snow mobiles, or guns, or knives .Then should they be able to out law motorcycles or any and all of the above, all togeather?

I think if you are of age you should be able to choose Helmet, no Helmet , seatbelt, no seatbelt. But don't ask Us to pay your doctor bills or plant you if you die, You should be on your own. You make your choice live with the results.

I don't want government to control my life so why should i want it to control other peoples lives.
Government should protect us from criminals and forgien agressors, NOT from ourselves.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:39 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

The reason people don't wear helmets is because of peer pressure, that's all. Has little to do with the "wind in the hair" blah, blah. In North Carolina we are required to wear DOT approved helmets. Getting a DOT approval rating must be fairly easy because of some of the helmets my Harley friends ride are little more than a plastic bowl and yet it has a DOT sticker. Some don’t even bother to strap it own.
I am still recovering from a fairly serious wreck back in Oct. My full face helmet saved my life; absolutely no question. And my friends, especially the ones that saw what was left of my bike know it. Since then I have had several friends ask me about a full coverage helmet. Some now are getting full face helmets.
I believe that if a person wants to ride without a helmet, and he/she is an adult let em. Where I have a problem is to see their wives, SO or children riding without adequate gear. I would be in favor of letting the rider decide for his/her self but if I were King, I would make it mandatory that the passenger wear a "proper" helmet.

And I have no problem with insurance differentiating.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:49 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikejockey
SO what if the gov. decides that motorcycles are too unsafe no mater what. What if boats are too unsafe, or bicycles, or skates, or snow mobiles, or guns, or knives .Then should they be able to out law motorcycles or any and all of the above, all togeather?

I think if you are of age you should be able to choose Helmet, no Helmet , seatbelt, no seatbelt. But don't ask Us to pay your doctor bills or plant you if you die, You should be on your own. You make your choice live with the results.

I don't want government to control my life so why should i want it to control other peoples lives.
Government should protect us from criminals and forgien agressors, NOT from ourselves.

the slippery slope argument.... very useful in discussions like this. Its why we can buy semiautomatics as an interpretation of the right to bear arms. but just as seatbelts haven't stopped high performance cars, I'm not sure its a realistic concern. Lack of universal helmet laws certainly hasn't stopped other infringements upon on/off road riders. The helmet law debate commonly degrades into individual rights etc. We do without so many individual rights every day (speed limits, taxes, drug use, profanity, nudity, licensing, insurance) that no one questions that its always funny to see the emotion this one brings up. Its the one case we are all happy to borrow from the outlaw harley mindset spilling over into the whole of motorcycling. I think a better poll might be who rides without a helmet?

Htheater: that is a smart policy and I'm sure there are others out there - but they are rare. But, rarely (ever) do they require verification (easy to falsify) and I have yet to see one adjusted for obesity/lifestyle/alcohol. in fact I keep waiting for the first attempt and the following law suit for discrimination.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:57 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911f
We do without so many individual rights every day (speed limits, taxes, drug use, profanity, nudity, licensing, insurance) that no one questions that its always funny to see the emotion this one brings up.

Some of you may go without these things....................
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:43 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

There is only one answer,#4. In a truly free country you should be able to do anything you like. Unfortunately such a country doesn't exist.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:29 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
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There is only one answer,#4. In a truly free country you should be able to do anything you like. Unfortunately such a country doesn't exist.
Maybe; but how's it free if I have to pay for the Ahole who's offe'd himself performing said act of 'freedom' ?
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:53 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htheater
You don't feel that insurance rates would be cheaper if the injuries/deaths and associated costs were lower? When I lived in a state w/o a helmet law it pissed me off that I had to subsidize other rider's stupidity.

Woody nailed it......we need a tiered level for those that wear a helmet and for those that don't. Funny, but I got a reduction in health insurance by being a non-smoker. When I was young and before there were seat belt laws, I got a reduction in my car insurance for agreeing to wear a seat belt. Never a hint of one for wearing a helmet (or any gear for that matter).

We are supposed to live in a country that protects the rights of individuals to make their own choice. Anyone should be able to do anything as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of another person. Pay as you go and a tiered premium is a good way to go. The individual can do as he wishes and so can the insurance companies. The job of government is to protect individuals from those that would try to impose or use force upon them contrary to the their (ie. individuals) will.
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Old 01-30-2009, 09:46 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikejockey
SO what if the gov. decides that motorcycles are too unsafe no mater what. What if boats are too unsafe, or bicycles, or skates, or snow mobiles, or guns, or knives .Then should they be able to out law motorcycles or any and all of the above, all togeather?

I think if you are of age you should be able to choose Helmet, no Helmet , seatbelt, no seatbelt. But don't ask Us to pay your doctor bills or plant you if you die, You should be on your own. You make your choice live with the results.

I don't want government to control my life so why should i want it to control other peoples lives.
Government should protect us from criminals and forgien agressors, NOT from ourselves.

exactly

Let's get this straight - you can choose to smoke cigarettes, you can choose to drink yourself to death, you can choose to enlist in the Armed Services, you can choose to buy a 500hp car, yet you shouldn't be able to choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmet? By the way, I would never ride without one, but I am more interested in preserving freedom than giving it to the govt.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:10 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinsRule
exactly

Let's get this straight - you can choose to smoke cigarettes, you can choose to drink yourself to death, you can choose to enlist in the Armed Services, you can choose to buy a 500hp car, yet you shouldn't be able to choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmet? By the way, I would never ride without one, but I am more interested in preserving freedom than giving it to the govt.

Yes, it's true that you can do all of the above but, it's also true that everyone of the above listed activities is subject to some kind of regulation. No smoking in certain locations and/or times...no drinking and driving (at least not getting caught doing it)...somebody in the armed forces will tell you exactly what you can do, when you can do it and who you can do it to... and have you ever heard of a speed limit?

The reality is we are all subject to rules in order to maintain order in our society. Most of us choose to cooperate with these rules and as a result, we are a better people. Those who choose to violate the rules are subject to the penalties that most of us choose to avoid by staying within the rules. All I ever suggested is that in the case of helments, if you choose to take the greater risk by exercising your right to not wear a helment, that you be willing to accept the greater expense assosciated with opting for that risk.

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Old 01-30-2009, 04:48 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by famdoc
Yes, it's true that you can do all of the above but, it's also true that everyone of the above listed activities is subject to some kind of regulation. No smoking in certain locations and/or times...no drinking and driving (at least not getting caught doing it)...somebody in the armed forces will tell you exactly what you can do, when you can do it and who you can do it to... and have you ever heard of a speed limit?

The reality is we are all subject to rules in order to maintain order in our society. Most of us choose to cooperate with these rules and as a result, we are a better people. Those who choose to violate the rules are subject to the penalties that most of us choose to avoid by staying within the rules. All I ever suggested is that in the case of helments, if you choose to take the greater risk by exercising your right to not wear a helment, that you be willing to accept the greater expense associated with opting for that risk.

Woody

while i agree with most of what you said i must say that the reason you can't smoke in some places is due to the adverse affects on others not to protect you. The reason you can't drink and drive is also due to the danger to others.
How does someone choosing to not wear a helmet put someone else in danger? It doesn't!! Not wearing a seatbelt in ex stream circumstances could i suppose but only if you slid across the seat and that caused you to loose control of your car/truck. NOT VERY LIKELY.
GOVERNMENT doesn't need to spend time or our tax dollars keeping people safe from themselves or paying the bill if people choose to do stupid things that cause themselves harm. We shouldn't have to foot the bill for others either. IMO
I wear a ff helmet by the way but that is my choice as i live in a state that does not require a helmet if you are of age.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:16 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Thank goodness you folks are NOT in charge of MY choices ! That's all I gotta say.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:17 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikejockey
while i agree with most of what you said i must say that the reason you can't smoke in some places is due to the adverse affects on others not to protect you. The reason you can't drink and drive is also due to the danger to others.
How does someone choosing to not wear a helmet put someone else in danger? It doesn't!! Not wearing a seatbelt in ex stream circumstances could i suppose but only if you slid across the seat and that caused you to loose control of your car/truck. NOT VERY LIKELY.
GOVERNMENT doesn't need to spend time or our tax dollars keeping people safe from themselves or paying the bill if people choose to do stupid things that cause themselves harm. We shouldn't have to foot the bill for others either. IMO
I wear a ff helmet by the way but that is my choice as i live in a state that does not require a helmet if you are of age.

An 18 yo daughter is riding on a friends bike and is injured. "No helmet, no pay policy". her family doesn't have money, care will be prohibitively expensive: intensive care, surgery, surgery, rehab, home care - 1.2 million the first year and ongoing 30K/year. Are you saying we aren't going to pay for her? A young man who is the bread winner with 3 dependent children has a life altering injury - no one is going to support him or the family? The idea that we are going to make, or could make, people pay the consequences is foolish - won't happen, can't happen in our society. No more than a smoker with endstage lung disease at medicare age is going to be left to suffocate. Again, this is an arbitrary issue that people rally a battle cry of individual rights around and its all a lot of noise.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:14 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Helmets save lives when worn on motorcycles.

Therefore, mandate them for motorcyclists.

But, to be fair...

...helmets save lives when worn in automobiles and trucks.

Therefore, mandate them for all drivers.

What's fair for the goose...

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Old 01-30-2009, 08:37 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vics
Maybe; but how's it free if I have to pay for the Ahole who's offe'd himself performing said act of 'freedom' ?
#4 in the poll states that the helmet less rider would be responsible for any extra injuries incurred. I.E lands on his head with a helmet hes covered by regular rates. He does the same thing with out a helmet. He has a choice of paying a higher premium every year for the privilege of not wearing one. Big fine if caught riding without insurance and no helmet.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:41 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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An 18 yo daughter is riding on a friends bike and is injured. "No helmet, no pay policy". her family doesn't have money, care will be prohibitively expensive: intensive care, surgery, surgery, rehab, home care - 1.2 million the first year and ongoing 30K/year. Are you saying we aren't going to pay for her? A young man who is the bread winner with 3 dependent children has a life altering injury - no one is going to support him or the family? The idea that we are going to make, or could make, people pay the consequences is foolish - won't happen, can't happen in our society. No more than a smoker with endstage lung disease at medicare age is going to be left to suffocate. Again, this is an arbitrary issue that people rally a battle cry of individual rights around and its all a lot of noise.

Your line of thinking will get motorcycles outlawed.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:42 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

agree to disagree

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Old 01-30-2009, 10:17 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Basically it comes down to this: ''People who don't wear helments don't have brains worth protecting.''

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Old 01-30-2009, 10:26 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I'm just saying arguing that helmets should or shouldn't be legal is just a matter of picking an arbitrary line in the sand. I personally don't care to waste my energy, or my AMA dollars defending the rights of idiots. I'd rather they put the money to keeping trails open and raising awareness of bike safety. I'm betting a lot of it goes to this argument. I could be wrong.
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Old 01-30-2009, 10:36 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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I personally don't care to waste my energy, or my AMA dollars defending the rights of idiots. I'd rather they put the money to keeping trails open and raising awareness of bike safety. I'm betting a lot of it goes to this argument. I could be wrong.

I do have to agree totally with you here
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:54 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
#4 in the poll states that the helmet less rider would be responsible for any extra injuries incurred. I.E lands on his head with a helmet hes covered by regular rates. He does the same thing with out a helmet. He has a choice of paying a higher premium every year for the privilege of not wearing one. Big fine if caught riding without insurance and no helmet.
So you are saying the "first time is free"? Insurance is paid based on your likelihood of an accident and your future accidents, not your previous injuries. Sure previous accidents apply to the rate, but merely as a prediction of your next accident. Meanwhile, the insurance is covering the dumb ass that got injured in the first place. I am with others, why should MY insurance go up when I am an ATTGAT guy? No ATTGAT does not mean that I am not going to get hurt, but any actuary will tell you that it means that I have a whole lot less chance of getting hurt, and when I do, my chances of having costs to treat be high will likely be less.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:15 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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You cannot legislate good judgment. I think Darwin should settle this argument for us.


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Old 01-31-2009, 08:40 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
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So you are saying the "first time is free"? Insurance is paid based on your likelihood of an accident and your future accidents, not your previous injuries. Sure previous accidents apply to the rate, but merely as a prediction of your next accident. Meanwhile, the insurance is covering the dumb ass that got injured in the first place. I am with others, why should MY insurance go up when I am an ATTGAT guy? No ATTGAT does not mean that I am not going to get hurt, but any actuary will tell you that it means that I have a whole lot less chance of getting hurt, and when I do, my chances of having costs to treat be high will likely be less.
What I'm saying is if you want to ride with out a helmet. extra insurance should be mandatory.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:42 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by vics
Maybe; but how's it free if I have to pay for the Ahole who's offe'd himself performing said act of 'freedom' ?

How so?? you don't have socialised medical, so whats coming out of your pocket?Further this seems to pre suppose that any one not wearing a helmet is penniless.
Wanna save lives, have a proper driving skills test to prove you can handle a vehicle no matter how many wheels.Outlaw cell phones in cars period. How many lives would that alone save?
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:46 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEddieb
Helmets save lives when worn on motorcycles.

Therefore, mandate them for motorcyclists.

But, to be fair...

...helmets save lives when worn in automobiles and trucks.

Therefore, mandate them for all drivers.

What's fair for the goose...


Absolutly, but we both know why that ain't gonna happen.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Backed up ER rooms, hospitals in general, health care costs etc - sure, MC accidents & care for those with head trauma etc., might be small compared to all the other preventable accidents however, it 'is' avoidable - and drives up all employer/employee health care costs - To me; that's not 'free' if I'm paying for Mr. 'Feel the breeze in my face'

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnod
How so?? you don't have socialised medical, so whats coming out of your pocket?Further this seems to pre suppose that any one not wearing a helmet is penniless.
Wanna save lives, have a proper driving skills test to prove you can handle a vehicle no matter how many wheels.Outlaw cell phones in cars period. How many lives would that alone save?
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:50 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I live in a state with no helmet law....and I can say that 90% of those not wearing helmets are HD and cruzer owners...Ill even say probly 95%.... God and cell phones are thinning them out every year...How in the hell can you avoid a crash ridding a tractor that cant manuver fast enough to get out of the way...just another way of looking at causes and avoidances......Its not just the helmetless rider that makes cost go up its those ugly noisy hunks of iron that ride the roads.....food for thought...Let me have it!
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:10 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vics
Backed up ER rooms, hospitals in general, health care costs etc - sure, MC accidents & care for those with head trauma etc., might be small compared to all the other preventable accidents however, it 'is' avoidable - and drives up all employer/employee health care costs - To me; that's not 'free' if I'm paying for Mr. 'Feel the breeze in my face'

Well, most sport bike accidents involve excessive speeding. So, I suppose if we mandate helmets we should also mandate speed governors on all bikes, too. Again, where do you draw the line? Surely excessive speeding is avoidable . . . .
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:35 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I was a key instrument in abolishing my states helmet law way back when I road a HD and wore a pin vest. I don't care what any helmetless rider tells you, not wearing a helmet has more to do with peer pressure than personal choice and/or freedom.
I'm responsible enough now to say I was wrong. Wearing a certified helmet should be mandatory and even a fullface one at that.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:51 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
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Well, most sport bike accidents involve excessive speeding. So, I suppose if we mandate helmets we should also mandate speed governors on all bikes, too. Again, where do you draw the line? Surely excessive speeding is avoidable . . . .

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...r-motorcycles/
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:19 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnod
How so?? you don't have socialised medical, so whats coming out of your pocket?Further this seems to pre suppose that any one not wearing a helmet is penniless.
Wanna save lives, have a proper driving skills test to prove you can handle a vehicle no matter how many wheels.Outlaw cell phones in cars period. How many lives would that alone save?

I'm not sure how widespread this knowledge is. i work in a hospital so just assume everyone knows this, but whenever I hear discussions on socialized medicine or the state of medicare its obvious that that is not the case.

Name any procedure (xray study, operation, even office visit). Lets say a prostatectomy since there are lots of old guys on this thread and we'll all be there someday. That might cost the hospital, all told, $15000 in costs. Someone with no insurance and no assets will not pay much at all. Medicare might reemburse $7000 for that. A contracted HMO maybe $18,000, a private insurer maybe 25,000. And completely out of pocket the highest charge of all.

This cost shifting is inseparable in medical care - without it there wouldn't be a hospital still surviving financially except for those in the richest communities that exclude all but the most affluent patients. It is exactly socialized medicine and it happens all the time. The degree it happens in your hospital, or your doctors office depends on their mix of patients and payors and indigent local population.

If you do not think you are paying for the underinsured, the bad health, the overweight, the unhelmeted you are simply ignorant of the facts.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:23 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

So my guess is it's a lot cheaper for a hospital when there is a fatality. So maybe no helmets works in their favor?
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:08 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by TwinsRule
So my guess is it's a lot cheaper for a hospital when there is a fatality. So maybe no helmets works in their favor?

you've got a point there. we'd have to do away with 911 and ambulances just to be sure, but that would save a lot of other money as well
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:57 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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There is only one answer,#4. In a truly free country you should be able to do anything you like. Unfortunately such a country doesn't exist.

I agree completely!!!
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:02 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinsRule
Well, most sport bike accidents involve excessive speeding. So, I suppose if we mandate helmets we should also mandate speed governors on all bikes, too. Again, where do you draw the line? Surely excessive speeding is avoidable . . . .
Works for me! We really all should slow down....
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:51 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Why stop at just wearing helmets........ make it full face helmets. And add full body armor, gloves and boots. Every bike has to have flashing head and brake lights.

Each riding group has their own "peer pressure" that will dictate what they wear. You
show up riding a HD with all the gear we wear and they'll laugh you out of the place.
Funny, when we go to NH or Maine, most motorcyclist aren't wearing a helmet and most bicyclist are. Go figure ...

Each state should be able to make their own rules regarding the helmet law. But,
my feeling is that anyone choosing not to wear one should be carrying an organ
donor card.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:35 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

there are a fewe grey areas in making & enforcing the rules

a few years ago the fed govt was able to coerce the states into helmet laws

thru funding of hiways projects

with more & more states going with the option of helmets

im not sure what changed

liabilty ...... health insurance..... etc is also a component of helmet laws

some states are no fault...... others like VA have guidlines & mandatory insurance

i remember when they came into effect in 69-70

i didnt used to wear one .........................& now it feels totally strange

not to [this year at indy motoGP i went 1 day w/o]

i rarely wear a seat belt & i know it would be better if i did

i wear the very best helmet i can find

im flawed














greatly
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

A riders choice, just like gear - but make my rates based on whether I wear gear,helmet & cc's. Evolution In Action = EIA
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:00 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I read an interesting thing some time ago. It said that everyone could make their own decision whether or not to wear a helmet but....in the event of an accident involving brain death, where the individual was NOT wearing a helmet, the individual would automatically become an organ doner! Interesting thought.
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:05 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I voted No. I want them out of the gene pool.....
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:39 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Mo. is voting on the helmet law soon I think. Blows my mind when I cross the bridge to IL and see kids in shorts w/ no helmet on their bikes.

I might suggest, like europe, new riders, or kids of a certain age wear helmets. At the very least.

My unlces in England tell me when they learned to drive, in the 50's, you usually started off on a bike, which makes it a more friendly cage enviorment i think. Plus the emphasis on safety, instruction etc... ALlthough its needed with roads like they have.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:07 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

If you elect to not wear a helmet, then you must not be intelligent enough to make your own decisions.... A helmet saved my life....make it mandatory!
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:18 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I worked at a horse racetrack for years and saw hundreds of "spills". The rider always goes flying head first. Often they ended up with head or spinal injuries, much like bike accidents....and....those don't "heal" real quick. I'd be interested to know how many riders who have had a serious crash in the past still ride with no helmet. I believe if a rider is not intelligent enough to wear a helmet then he needs someone smater to make that decision for him. A helmet saved my life.....I would be dead if I hadn't been wearing one. Make it mandatory.
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  #53  
Old 04-02-2009, 01:10 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I think it should be mandatory for helmets to be worn. I think people who ride motorcycles without helmets are drawing negative attention to motorcyclists. Its bad enough law enforcement and other government agency's are cracking down on motorcylists. Proper safety and riding skills is whats to blame, not speeding when it is safe to do so.
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:22 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

IL just this week defeated mandatory helmet usage. On the plus side, we can continue to buy lotsa guns without limits as a result of another vote. Can't be all bad.

geo
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:08 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick52
If you elect to not wear a helmet, then you must not be intelligent enough to make your own decisions.... A helmet saved my life....make it mandatory!

Kind of! You can still make your own decisions, even if they are poor decisions.

Fact is this, you cannot legislate good judgment. I don't want my government to legislate this type of decision for anyone. Next thing you know, they will be telling us whether riding a motorcycle at all is safe and if it should be legislated to a larger degree than it is currently.
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:38 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick52
A helmet saved my life.....I would be dead if I hadn't been wearing one. Make it mandatory.

oooh, I'd hate to see the scars that would run 360 around my face and head if I hadn't worn a helmet during a high side!
Even the time I put my foot in a dip in the downhill, off camber, gravel driveway and went down, hitting head first - THAT
would have been quite nasty. I only lost my memory for a while and had quite the headache from that little spill. Can't
imagine the carnage without a helmet.

Even knowing that it is stupid to ride without a helmet, I'd hate to see mandatory laws put into place. Even knowing the
financial cost of hospitalizing and treating non-helmeted head injuries and the likely rise in insurance costs - I still don't
want the gov't mandating more restrictive laws.

Perhaps if more people knew of RoadRashQueen - a helmet saved her pretty face and probably her life:
http://www.rockthegear.org/index.php...oadrash_queen/
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:02 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy1
oooh, I'd hate to see the scars that would run 360 around my face and head if I hadn't worn a helmet during a high side!
Even the time I put my foot in a dip in the downhill, off camber, gravel driveway and went down, hitting head first - THAT
would have been quite nasty. I only lost my memory for a while and had quite the headache from that little spill. Can't
imagine the carnage without a helmet.

Even knowing that it is stupid to ride without a helmet, I'd hate to see mandatory laws put into place. Even knowing the
financial cost of hospitalizing and treating non-helmeted head injuries and the likely rise in insurance costs - I still don't
want the gov't mandating more restrictive laws.

Perhaps if more people knew of RoadRashQueen - a helmet saved her pretty face and probably her life:
http://www.rockthegear.org/index.php...oadrash_queen/
Muddy I just got finished reading Brittany's story and all I can say is DAMN!!! That girl is one of the strongest people I have ever read about. That story is sad but at the same time very uplifting and positive. I hope other people that ride will take the time to read what can happen in an instant. Most all of us know someone that has had a bad accident or died but this story could help save lives if people would just realize the importance of riding gear.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:40 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I personally believe that riding without a helmet is not a smart thing to do.

ATGATT

If we keep making more and more laws that do nothing but protect idiots from themselves, while other societies are letting survival of the fittest be the rule, we will soon have the dumbest society on the planet. If we stop protecting stupid people the death toll will rise, but so will our nations IQ.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:44 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I wear my full face helmet all the time. I wear it no matter what bike I ride or what state I am in. I have been involved in a few accidents over the years and each time my helmet was damaged. So for me law or no law does not come into play as far as my decision to wear a helmet.

If I could write a federal law in regard to helmets, I would manadate all first time licensed riders under the age of 21 must wear an approved helmet. All first time licensed riders over the age of 21 be mandated to wear an approved helmet for one year. Then I would let the individual decide.

I also would like to see different insurance rates. I can not understand why this would be any harder than the step system in use now. And lets say if a person is stopped for a traffic violation, the officer could have a line item for wearing helmet or not. This gets sent to the insurance company and you now have an increase in your rates.

I really can not agree with mandating helmet use for everyone forever. I agree everyone should wear a helmet but it does need to be our choice. My reasoning for helmet use for the new riders is simple, most people will continue to do what they have been doing in the past, so just maybe more people will do the right thing.

And as far as the person who gets injured while not wearing a helmet and has no money or the right insurance, nothing is perfect, but if we can collect even a partial amount of the insurance money for those who decide not to wear a helmet it is a huge step in the right direction.

Just my thoughts, I know this subject will most likely be debated long after I hang up my helmet for the last time.
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Old 04-29-2009, 01:35 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

My take on it is that wearing a helmet (and other protective gear as well) should be made mandatory. I do not want to intervene into other people's life and I don't want to make decisions on their behalf: it is the cost "of scraping someone else's brains off asphalt" after these morons (yes, morons!) have an accident and their helmet-less heads bang against the pavement. If you choose to to be stupid and ride w/ out one - it is your problem, but I do not want to pick up the bill in form of taxation to fix you up!

Making rates vary depending whether you wear a helmet or not will not work, in my opinion. It will simply make more people to ride w/ out any insurance at all, which is even worse.
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