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Poll: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?
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Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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  #121  
Old 06-13-2011, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bertbrumfield
...We are required by Federal law to wear seat belts, drive and ride DOT approved hehicles, AND obtain a state drivers license before we can use our highways and roads[except walking and bycycles ].

One thing that I personally have never driven nor intend to drive is a "hehicle"... not that there is anything wrong with that... just seems too "alternative" to me (like riding a green GT).

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  #122  
Old 06-28-2011, 03:52 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Every argument that I've ever seen made in favor of mandatory helmet use or in favor of insurance discrimination based upon (lack of) helmet use can be extended to be an argument in favor of banning motorcycles or in favor of insurance discrimination against motorcyclists.

Stop trying to make choices for other people.

(FWIW, I am an ATGATT boy, but I do not believe in making those decisions for others.)
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  #123  
Old 06-29-2011, 12:37 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrachrispy
Every argument that I've ever seen made in favor of mandatory helmet use or in favor of insurance discrimination based upon (lack of) helmet use can be extended to be an argument in favor of banning motorcycles or in favor of insurance discrimination against motorcyclists.

Stop trying to make choices for other people.

(FWIW, I am an ATGATT boy, but I do not believe in making those decisions for others.)

Well said!

I used to be ATGMOTT, all the gear most of the time... Specially when going for a short ride near home under hot weather. After reading what happened to GothMom last year as she was close to home I became ATGATT. If I remember, she was fully dressed. She still was injured. Could have been worst.
A question of personal judgement. Monday when they installed my new tires I saw a guy with shorts, sandals, t-shirt coming off his goldwing. I had to ask why? I had my summer well ventilated jacket with pants and all the protection as the temperature was over 90 F.
I was a professional skier for a while, only wearing a helmet for races. After seeing people badly injured after simple falls, I always wear my ski helmet. I would not want to gov. to pass legislation on ski helmets.

On that, safe riding.
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  #124  
Old 08-20-2011, 04:44 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I digress, I think helmets should be a matter of personal preference. There are too many people who need organs for donation and heaven forbid, the use of appropriate helmets will reduce the number of squids and knuckleheads who will have the opportunity to donate. Sweet mother of pearl! What else can our U.S. government do to impede personal freedom?
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  #125  
Old 09-30-2011, 12:33 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

On of that, you should be required to wear closed toe shoes and pants. This crap with shorts and a tanktop have to go. I have even seen a guy with rollerblades on while driving a bike? Maybe even go as far as stating you must be 21 to obtain a motorcycle license.
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  #126  
Old 10-22-2011, 09:04 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Yep, but only if they want to save their jaw, face, skull or life should they ever hit their head when dropping the bike.
Any other argument is just freedom of choice based, but I'm sure when some one else is assisting them to go to the toilet, they would have opted for the helmet.
I don't drive with out a seat belt, fly without gloves or anti flash clothing, or ride without a helmet and decent gear. Seen the results of ignoring this stuff too often.

Best wishes all.
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  #127  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:21 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Actually I note that as of 26 OCT 2011, 50.2% voted for compulsory helmets. If this were a HD forum, it would be interesting to see the response rate.
Surely BMW riders would be more conservative, less 'image' conscious.
And again, in Australia, I reckon the response rate would be higher as we are more open to being regulated on these sort of things which is ultimately for our own good and less drain on the public purse.
That being said, I'm riding my 47 Chief to a rally on the weekend, and I only ever wear an open face helmet on the Chief. No idea why, 60MPH on the Chief is the same as 60MPH on the K1200S it just feels better on the Chief, but I promise I won't have a skull face bandanna, protective leather sleeveless vest and white T shirt, attitude, or blip my throttle when people are listening!

Best wishes all.

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  #128  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:50 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Ken,

The amazing part is that even here we're pretty evenly split.
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  #129  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:46 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Blows my mind when I cross the bridge to IL and see kids in shorts w/ no helmet on their bikes.

Folks, I am sick of hearing all you "safety conscious" riders berate riders who don't wear helmets. I am one of them. I only wear a helmet if I am going on a longer (100+ mile) ride, or if the weather is bad (cold or wet) - and its full face (the only kind worth wearing). If I am riding over to a friend's house a couple of miles away, I may ride in my shorts. And I don't wear a seat belt either. Guess what - the speed limit in my town is 25. My bicycle goes faster. There are no two lane highways, only the super slab and congested main roads. I want to see everything out of the corner of my eye and hear everything around me. And I don't want anyone telling me to wear a helmet.

Fact is, most motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents due to inexperience. If I had a dollar for every rider that crashed because "I got cut off", I would be rich. Guess what - you ARE going to get cut off. Drivers ARE going to stop in front of you for no reason. The pavement by the car wash IS going to be wet or have some slippery chemical on it. There ARE going to be pot holes that swallow VWs on the road. Wearing a helmet will not prevent any of this. Part of being a responsible, experienced rider is to recognize these obstacles and to anticipate them. Leave yourself an out in traffic. Don't ride in the blind spot. Sure, we can all get wiped out by a rogue driver or a deer. But don't rely on a helmet to save you. Never saw any stats, but I would be willing to bet that for every crashed rider that "would have died without a helmet", a large percentage are single vehicle accidents with inexperienced riders, and there are significantly more rider accidents that the helmet wasn't an issue. Not saying they aren't good - but lets all make our own choices and more importantly make sure we know how to ride. That's what will save lives.
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  #130  
Old 10-26-2011, 09:18 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

There you go Rabid. I realise most in the US are huge on personal choice vs political - civil interventionism citing civil rights, amendments etc (and this thread is mostly US situation specific). It's a cultural difference that is interesting to many non US people looking in. Do not interpret that comment as a swipe at America, as it isn't (I have extensive experience in the US, and working beside deployed US Military and with American mates).
I have experience of flying Aero Medical evacuation of head injured riders both here in Oz, and over seas on deployments (both military and civilian), and believe me, a decent head injury is for ever.
I'm sure most here respect your individual rights, but I respect my rights (if I were paying US taxes) to not have to pay for a helmet less riders extended medical bills, rehab, etc due to lack of suitable PPE (personal protective equipment) no matter how good a rider they believe they are. As one member commented, it should come from their insurance or some other self induced penalty. If it's an informed decision to ride without a lid, let them be solely responsible for any negative out come as well. I think the intent of the thread deals with people traveling faster than 25 MPH in general.
Rant over.

Ride safe mate.

Ken
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  #131  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:27 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baytown
There you go Rabid. I realise most in the US are huge on personal choice vs political - civil interventionism citing civil rights, amendments etc (and this thread is mostly US situation specific). It's a cultural difference that is interesting to many non US people looking in. Do not interpret that comment as a swipe at America, as it isn't (I have extensive experience in the US, and working beside deployed US Military and with American mates).
I have experience of flying Aero Medical evacuation of head injured riders both here in Oz, and over seas on deployments (both military and civilian), and believe me, a decent head injury is for ever.
I'm sure most here respect your individual rights, but I respect my rights (if I were paying US taxes) to not have to pay for a helmet less riders extended medical bills, rehab, etc due to lack of suitable PPE (personal protective equipment) no matter how good a rider they believe they are. As one member commented, it should come from their insurance or some other self induced penalty. If it's an informed decision to ride without a lid, let them be solely responsible for any negative out come as well. I think the intent of the thread deals with people traveling faster than 25 MPH in general.
Rant over.

Ride safe mate.

Ken

Thanks Ken. Here is ABATE's angle. Quite interesting stats, regardless of what side you fall on. There is a lot of bad info out there.

http://63.160.255.13/bikers/Abate%20Mensa.htm
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  #132  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:50 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I've read pro and con on the helmet law.
Here in LA. it's law.
I've had 3 wreaks, all over 14 mph. I've not had the 1st hurt neck, but, after every wreak. either or both the helmet and or face sheild have scrapes and gouges in the plastic. I feel sure the plastic is tuffer then my skin and meat on my jaw, face, and side of head including my ears hanging out the side.
If I'd been bare headed, I would look like a sparring partner for "Ear Biter" Tyson.
Legal or not, my head goes in a helmet before I ride, around the block.

As far as riders quit riding before wearing a helmet. Then all they were before is a HD wanna-be. They sure ain't a real rider.
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  #133  
Old 01-22-2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

In my younger day i didn't want to wear the thing it was hidding my beautiful face and awsome hair going down to my waist, today 36 years later i still have a beautiful face with hair down to my ears, The fact is with a couple of accident i had (some of them being my own fault. without that helmet i wouldn't be here today to talk to you. It's your choice to wear a helmet (not here in Canada) But you only have one head and one life. In 1977 they had to remove buick cutlass of my face after he cut me off going into his driveway, the helmet saved me from brain damaged (maybe not) but kept me alive today after having over 486 stitches in my face and over 40 reconstruction surgery over the years i'd say helmet his there to stay for me.

Ride safe
stay alive someone needs you
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  #134  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:45 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

The ONLY additional law we need is a contributory negligence law that says if you fail to make use of readily available safety equipment the insurance of the person who is at fault does not have to pay.

20 some years ago a blind drunk crashed a light, hit another car and the passenger in the other car was thrown through the windshield, onto the pavement and slid 70 or 80 feet. She filed suit. The drunks insurance offered a nominal sum but she wanted MORE. The courts sided with the insurance companies argument that had she been wearing a belt/harness she would not have been injured, just as the driver was not injured.

Sometimes California germs it right.
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  #135  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:25 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethebike61
The ONLY additional law we need is a contributory negligence law that says if you fail to make use of readily available safety equipment the insurance of the person who is at fault does not have to pay.

20 some years ago a blind drunk crashed a light, hit another car and the passenger in the other car was thrown through the windshield, onto the pavement and slid 70 or 80 feet. She filed suit. The drunks insurance offered a nominal sum but she wanted MORE. The courts sided with the insurance companies argument that had she been wearing a belt/harness she would not have been injured, just as the driver was not injured.

Sometimes California germs it right.

So, let me get this straight, if your a pedestrian and you get him in a crosswalk by a car and you sustain a head injury, the driver is not at fault because if you were wearing a helmet you would have been safer. Your argument is completely ludicrous. It's positions like this that I expect from stuff shirt politicians who don't know the first thing about personal choice and riding a motorcycle.

If you can honestly say you wear head to toe full race leathers, dirt bike armor, inflatable jacket, helmet restraint system, etc. etc. etc. every time you ride your bike(and I do mean every time), then you might have merit behind what you posted, but it's more then likely you don't, and that's why people have to get off there band wagon about telling other people what's best for them.
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  #136  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xk49
So, let me get this straight, if your a pedestrian and you get him in a crosswalk by a car and you sustain a head injury, the driver is not at fault because if you were wearing a helmet you would have been safer. Your argument is completely ludicrous. It's positions like this that I expect from stuff shirt politicians who don't know the first thing about personal choice and riding a motorcycle.

If you can honestly say you wear head to toe full race leathers, dirt bike armor, inflatable jacket, helmet restraint system, etc. etc. etc. every time you ride your bike(and I do mean every time), then you might have merit behind what you posted, but it's more then likely you don't, and that's why people have to get off there band wagon about telling other people what's best for them.

The use of a helmet while walking is not considered necessary for your personal protection whereas on a motorcycle it is and if you call your friendly State Farm agent he can most likely quote chapter and verse on contributory negligence arguments in tort court.

And just so that YOU will know this is what I wear EVERY TIME I ride...Shoei RF1000, European made TUV approved with armored inserts at the knees, shoulders, elbows, back and hips two piece zippered together per the European requirement suit, BMW TUV approved boots and leather gloves.

Maybe YOU choose to not wear it but I do. If you choose to not wear the gear then YOU should be responsible for your injuries that were a result of failing to use the gear.

You make the choice you should suffer the consequences of said choice.

And where did I say anything about what is best for YOU...personally I don't give fat rats ass what you do. If you want to take a 45 ACP and splatter your apparently limited brain across the wall, I could not care less.
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  #137  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:34 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsquad
I'm a pro helmet guy, and forgetting the safety aspect of a helmet in a crash. I'm sure I could not have taken the kind of trips I have without a helmet. I can't imagine a 500-600 mile day in the rain without the helmet between me and the rain which would likely feel like nails. Bugs, at times have been an issue, the sun, my helmet has a sun visor, music, road debris etc.... A helmet does a lot more than just protect you in a crash so I say wear it.

Back in 1982 when SC modified the law to exempt 21+ from being forced to wear on I rode from James Island to Ashley Phosphate Road (20 or so miles most on I-26) to work 2 times without my full coverage helmet.....never again.
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  #138  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord9669
In my younger day i didn't want to wear the thing it was hidding my beautiful face and awsome hair going down to my waist, today 36 years later i still have a beautiful face with hair down to my ears, The fact is with a couple of accident i had (some of them being my own fault. without that helmet i wouldn't be here today to talk to you. It's your choice to wear a helmet (not here in Canada) But you only have one head and one life. In 1977 they had to remove buick cutlass of my face after he cut me off going into his driveway, the helmet saved me from brain damaged (maybe not) but kept me alive today after having over 486 stitches in my face and over 40 reconstruction surgery over the years i'd say helmet his there to stay for me.

Ride safe
stay alive someone needs you
WOW!!
Now THAT'S a sordid tale that pulls out all the stops and lays it out in color... well, nearly - I don't think photos are necessary! Reminds me of the RoadRash Girl's story.
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  #139  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:49 PM
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Re: Helmets look cool

Today's helmets look cool. I feel safer and look cool and you don't have to see my face.
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  #140  
Old 05-22-2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Here's a question:
What helmet options might we have today if the industry wasn't mandated to meet DOT spec's?
Cooler, lighter, maybe even better protection? Our cars have better seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones... What real safety improvements have been made to motorcycle helmets in the past 30-40 years? How many more riders might happily wear a helmet if they had better options?
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  #141  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:24 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
You cannot legislate good judgment. I think Darwin should settle this argument for us.

I do so agree. Why does Man always have to interfere?
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  #142  
Old 05-23-2012, 02:20 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Woodrow Wilson said, " You can protect the citizens against everything except their own ignorance!" As for helmets, I don't leave home without it.
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  #143  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I think it is up to the individual to wear one or not wear one. IMO i think you're nuts if you don't but that is my choice. take out the possibility of hitting the ground I love my helmet when i take a golf ball sized bee off the face shield instead of my forehead!!!!

Although I shake my head every time i see someone without one I remember that this is a free country and should be treated as such!
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  #144  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

If the government should be able to dictate that riders should wear a helmet because it reduces head injuries, then they should mandate that car drivers should wear helmets, because it would also reduce head injuries. But they wont because car drivers are too large a special interest group, but they can get away with picking on bikers due to small numbers vs large numbers of self righteous closet fascists. I wear a helmet, full face in fact, because I choose to. And I still do when I'm in NH where it's not mandatory. But it should be free choice. Fucking self righteous fascists.
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  #145  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:06 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Wonder how they got that big speciel interest group to use seat belts?
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  #146  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:16 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

There is a big difference. I almost mentioned seatbelts, but didn't want to muddy the waters. But the difference is that seatbelts keep a car driver in the drivers seat and so in control of the vehicle. So I do believe a state is within it's authority to mandate DRIVERS to wear seatbelts to maintain control. For helmets though, I stand confidently by my statements above. I wore my seatbelt before it was mandatory, and I wear my full face even where not mandatory. But it should be my choice about the helmet, say for example I'm driving down a 30 mph street for a one mile trip, whose business is it if I wear a helmet?
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  #147  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:19 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokerecord
Wonder how they got that big speciel interest group to use seat belts?

Are you saying that car drivers wearing helmets would not decrease head injuries and fatalities? I'm guessing you will avoid answering that simple and relevant question.
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  #148  
Old 06-03-2012, 01:06 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

No, I didn't say ya or na. you said the state wouldn't fool with cars because of the number of voters, but, they did, with seat belts. The number of voters(speciel interest or lobbists) didn't figure in that law.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:13 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

You are comparing apples to oranges, driver's seatbelts vs helmets. You refuse to comment on my point, which is helmets in cars would reduce injuries and fatalities just like on motorcycles.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baytown
There you go Rabid. I realise most in the US are huge on personal choice vs political - civil interventionism citing civil rights, amendments etc (and this thread is mostly US situation specific). It's a cultural difference that is interesting to many non US people looking in. Do not interpret that comment as a swipe at America, as it isn't (I have extensive experience in the US, and working beside deployed US Military and with American mates).
I have experience of flying Aero Medical evacuation of head injured riders both here in Oz, and over seas on deployments (both military and civilian), and believe me, a decent head injury is for ever.
I'm sure most here respect your individual rights, but I respect my rights (if I were paying US taxes) to not have to pay for a helmet less riders extended medical bills, rehab, etc due to lack of suitable PPE (personal protective equipment) no matter how good a rider they believe they are. As one member commented, it should come from their insurance or some other self induced penalty. If it's an informed decision to ride without a lid, let them be solely responsible for any negative out come as well. I think the intent of the thread deals with people traveling faster than 25 MPH in general.
Rant over.

Ride safe mate.

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You may want to move to New York City. They are now outlawing carbonated "soda" beverages over a large enough size. Self righteous fascist dictators. Those tax payers health related expenses I'm sure will drop, so it will be okay. They should outlaw soda altogether. And ketchup, tons of sugar, coffee with sugar, oh, ice-cream, sun exposure, laying at the beach, smoking, drinking, eating red meat, riding bicycles, playing sports, crossing the street, skateboarding, chocolate candy, all of these things cause unreasonable health care cost increases.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:14 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

No thanks Rabid. I'm more than content living and being an Australian, looking out on to the Great Barrier Reef when I'm ever at home.Cities aren’t my bag baby! (Must admit, I even drove straight past NY last time I was in the States no offence!)
I'm still in Afghanistan but did see a report via BBC on theNY Mayor intent to ban Super-Sized sweet drinks. Mate, I don't want to highjack this thread, but you gotta admit, there's a lot of really fat or diabetic people out there who are sucking your (and my Aussie) health care dollar dry. Same can be said for head injured bike riders whose injury is solely due to the intentional lack of a helmet, no matter who was at fault. I'm pro seat belt,helmet and body armour type of bloke. I'm fine with limiting the size of sweet drinks being offered. It's not the availability issue, it's the mental conditioning that it brings, that it is the only size to drink, same with big fries serves vs.what you really want. Excess is better from the McDonalds and Coke perspective.(I'm a Pepsi Max man myself!)
I wish you well mate, and ride safe no matter how you’re dressed or what you drink!
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:16 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Sorry, posted twice due to the poor e-mail comms here.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:07 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

To answer your make believe question. Yes, helmets would be safer, as they would while skating or even walking around everyday, throw in knee pads and shoulder pads and some steel toed boots. We'd all be safer if we stayed in bed all day with bannisters on the side. Now to what you are dodging. You said they fooled with riders because they were few numbers to complain. But, would not fool with cars, because there were so many. I replied, they passed the seatbelt law for cars, so your reason didn't make sense. That's all I said, and nothing about what would actually be safer. I'll go for my 3rd ride since this post started.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:53 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Congratulations on riding your motorcycle, you must feel special. You are unique on this board with that, I'm sure. I have multiple bikes because I don't ride them. Okay well actaully I ride a ton, including earlier today, can't say I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

Anyway, now that you finally admitted my point is true that health insurance costs would go down if car driver helmets were mandatory too, then what is the difference between cars and bikes, if not percentage of the population, that allows for only bike helmets to be mandatory?

I will mention again what you seem to imply that I disagree on seatbelts. Seatbelts are different, because they keep a driver in the drivers seat so able to control the car, resulting in higher safety for innocent bystanders other than the driver, while helmets only add to the safety of the rider, not the innocent bystanders.

And I'll also remind you the point that I wore my seatbelt before it was the law. And also that I wear my full face helmet, not because it's the law, but because I decide for myself that it is right for me, not because busy bodies believe it is right for me. I also wear it in NH where it is not mandatory.

Now live your own life, and let others live theirs as they see fit. Go for another ride so you can brag you did four rides, you'll then be even more awesome to me.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:00 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I think I've changed my mind. And since even with mandatory helmet laws, ten percent of road fatalities are still motorcyclists, we should just outlaw motorcycles all together. You should do the right thing and turn yours in first. It seems to me that as dangerous as it is and expensive to society, you are being extremely selfish by riding three times since 2009 when this thread started. Or did you mean three times since you started typing that post? You shouldn't text while riding...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokerecord
To answer your make believe question. Yes, helmets would be safer, as they would while skating or even walking around everyday, throw in knee pads and shoulder pads and some steel toed boots. We'd all be safer if we stayed in bed all day with bannisters on the side. Now to what you are dodging. You said they fooled with riders because they were few numbers to complain. But, would not fool with cars, because there were so many. I replied, they passed the seatbelt law for cars, so your reason didn't make sense. That's all I said, and nothing about what would actually be safer. I'll go for my 3rd ride since this post started.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:35 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Maybe I just don't understand. Please explain exactly why mandatory helmets should be the law.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:14 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
Maybe I just don't understand. Please explain exactly why mandatory helmets should be the law.

Because young people think they're never going to have an accident - and it is a terrible waste if somebody dies or ends up in a wheelchair. Young people, yes - because those who have reached my age (59) usually don't think twice about wearing a helmet. They've had close encounters enough to know they only control part of the ride. BTDT.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:15 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlikehell
Because young people think they're never going to have an accident - and it is a terrible waste if somebody dies or ends up in a wheelchair. Young people, yes - because those who have reached my age (59) usually don't think twice about wearing a helmet. They've had close encounters enough to know they only control part of the ride. BTDT.

So outlaw motorcycling all together then, why not by that logic? There are still extremely high fatality numbers even with helmets.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:38 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Here are some government stats.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811390.pdf

Note that in 2009 in NH, where everywhere you look there are helmetless riders, there were only 17 fatalities, and 35% of those had helmets on.

Here in Massachusetts, 49 fatalities. Can you say, "false sense of security invincibility"?15% of fatalaties weren't wearing helmets it says. I find that extremely hard to believe as in 40 years I don't remember seeing one helmetless rider, so I'm assuming they are counting guys who's helmets came off during the crash.

Even if I'm wrong about the one point, and they are nout counting guys that lose their helmets as helmetless (hard to believe as stated above), 57% of fatalities were wearing helmets.

How many more must die before we come to our senses and babysit formerly free americans and outlaw motorcycles all together!

The real travesty is the people who are fooled into believing they are getting security for trading in their liberty, and as it was said long ago, whoever wants that will get neither.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

It seems that some relative newbies to I-BMW have become quite obsessed with this thread... perhaps some 2-wheeled therapy would help...
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
It seems that some relative newbies to I-BMW have become quite obsessed with this thread... perhaps some 2-wheeled therapy would help...


YEah it's been raining about 2 weeks straight and I bought my K 3 weeks ago ha! My points are valid though, and more importantly TRUE
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:12 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Seriously though, I'm more convinced now that I looked at the federal government statistics. You guys that have ridden in NH ( I can't speak for other free states where it's up to the rider), but you go to NH when the weather is nice, and the place is infested with bikes without helmets, even two-up, no helmets. The people are riding the way people should ride, carefully and cautiously, and as the statistics show as in the link I posted from the US GOV. WEBSITE STATISTICS, only 17 fatalities in 2009. But come to my fascist state, MA, on nice days, there are squids everywhere with their helmets on but riding like maniacs because the state is protecting them, and there are far more fatalities.

As with so many things, the masses refuse to see the truth, they are brainwashed that big government is the solution, even when the statistics prove otherwise.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:04 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
So outlaw motorcycling all together then, why not by that logic? There are still extremely high fatality numbers even with helmets.

Be careful with what you wish for... In Europe (I live in the Netherlands) there is a very severe exam before you get a driver's license. The license to ride a motorcycle is even harder to get - and as a result many young people don't even try anymore. The average age of the motorcyclist goes up, because there are not enough newcomers. Inevitably this will result in a change by and from the manufacturers: less powerful bikes, mainly tourers will be developed as the sport bikes no longer have buyers...

In France there are no bikes over 100hp, Belgium introduced a law regarding 'safe clothing' on bikes and Holland has a '3-tier' license: you start (minimum age 18) on a max 34hp bike, after two years you can ride a heavier bike and after that you can get every bike you want.

(Good) helmets are the norm (and the law) over here, and drinking alcohol when riding a bike is frowned upon. A helmet has to comply with the European standard (no brain-buckets over here).

If you believe that riding without a helmet is as safe as riding with a helmet, then by all means do so - people who believe that are right, they actually don't need one.

To come back to your remark: yes, if motorcycles were outlawed there would be less deaths in traffic. Just wait for the politician who discovers this and phrases it right to the 90% of the population who don't ride.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:52 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlikehell

If you believe that riding without a helmet is as safe as riding without a helmet, then by all means do so - people who believe that are right, they actually don't need one.


Frits

I think the second "without" should be "with" but I agree with you anyway.

I won't even ride my bicycle without a helmet.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:26 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I'm one of the few who voted 'Confused'

If I was still living full-time in the USA, I'd vote for a mandatory helmet law just to p!ss off the life-style crowd, and hopefully get some of them to stop riding and thus reduce the noise levels on the road.
An added benefit is that that the moving roadblocks that the lifestyle group ride creates would be a lot easier to navigate at speed...

In the past I've always been pretty religious about wearing a helmet, with maybe only 10 miles in my 'western' riding life without a helmet: I've been riding for over 32 years now, if that means anything.

However, I now spend most of my time overseas (SE Asian country), and while they have a helmet law, it is only enforced in a few big cities, and periodically in some of the more rural areas / provinces.
And, it seems to apply only to the 'driver': the one to many passengers (2 or 3 are common, I've seen 7 plus rider) on the motorcycle can go bareheaded.

What does this have to do with anything? Well, mostly the helmeted guys (in an area where the law is not enforced) are going a fair bit faster than the 'free' riders.
I've ridden without a helmet myself, and noticed that I'm maintaining a much higher speed while wearing a helmet.

At the end of the day, now I kind of like having the freedom to decide what I will wear, and how I will ride. Most riders here are doing 40 km/h most of the time, and even out on the open road I target a much lower cruising speed than I would venture in a relatively unenforced area in the US. Typically I aim to hold 45 to 50 mph, which is faster than 95% of the traffic in the bigger islands contiguous to where I live.
When not wearing a helmet, I've noticed I tend to hold 30 to 35 mph on the same roads.

Can I hurt my head if I fall? Yup, a friend of mine has just done that, and is still suffering some memory loss. But I've been down here in the islands a few times: twice due to my SO crashing (the local law mandates a licensed rider as a passenger for a learner rider...), and once due to a slippery wet road, cheap 50/50 dual sport tires (Chen Shing), and of course my own stupidity.
In none of those did my helmet touch the road, I believe part of the reason was the relatively slow speeds involved.

In my previous riding life, I have damaged helmets about 50% of the time, all of those where the helmet was damaged were at speeds over 45mph (one was well over 120mph, speedo was showing 140 before I lifted the throttle and lost the front).



Maybe I am not sure where I am going with this, but I think what I am saying is, based on some hearsay and an extremely limited statistical base, helmets may be a much bigger advantage to a certain group of riders (the faster ones) than others, and in fact may induce a higher level of risk-tolerance.

And as a possible corollary to this is, if we mandate helmet laws for all, or increased insurance rates for non-helmeted riders, should we also mandate something similar for, say, riders who ride faster than 45? Or riders who ride bikes with non-ABS or unlinked brakes? Or those who ride with heavy loads and / or luggage?

Seeing as I like to push things along as 'time-efficiently' as possible, on balance, I'd rather settle for an education approach, starting with mandatory helmet usage up to the age of 21.
This would obviously work better in a country like the one I was raised in, where you were only allowed a car license at 18, but could legally ride a 50cc from 16, so that a large proportion of kids started off on bikes.
Or like here in the islands, where bikes make up a big majority of the vehicle population, and so there is much more exposure to riding from an early age.


Just another thought.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:32 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
Frits

I think the second "without" should be "with" but I agree with you anyway.

I won't even ride my bicycle without a helmet.

You're right - I changed the text accordingly. Thnx!
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:51 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

This is always an interesting discussion to me. I usually fall somewhere in the middle but leaning towards support of helmet laws, and am often amused by those on the extreme of either side. The US has a strong tradition of personal liberty and responsibility. We don't like being told what we MUST do, even if it's a very sensible thing to do. However, it is accepted in this country that driving on public roads is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. If you want to ride a motorcycle naked on your private land, you're free to do so (as long as I don't have to see it!). If you want to use public roads, you have to agree to a multitude of restrictions. Yes, the government could outlaw motorcycles altogether tomorrow. They build the roads, they get to say who uses them. Don't like it? There's a ballot box near you.

Now, leaving aside the privilege vs. right argument above, many decry the helmet laws based on the fact that they only protect the wearer, and not the rest of the public. Bob summarized this argument and refuted it thusly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
The usual justification for mandatory helmets (other than the government simply acting as a Nanny State) is that the reduction in injuries resulting from forced helmet use, will reduce health care costs. In the few remaining countries like the US that have essentially no state-run health care system, this reason is obviously irrelevant.
However, the US does have a form of state-guaranteed healthcare, requiring hospitals to provide emergency care to all who need it. A percentage of the helmetless victims are bound to be also insurance-less and not independently wealthy, so the costs of their medical assistance are necessarily rolled into the costs the rest of us pay, through higher doctor bills, insurance premiums, taxes, etc.

XRx accepts the seatbelt laws (a sentiment many helmet law opponents do NOT share):
Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
Seatbelts are different, because they keep a driver in the drivers seat so able to control the car, resulting in higher safety for innocent bystanders other than the driver, while helmets only add to the safety of the rider, not the innocent bystanders.
Well, the purpose of a helmet is not solely to protect the rider after he leaves the bike. An airborne pebble, bird, large insect, or other object with an unfortunate trajectory could certainly cause a helmetless rider to lose control and endanger those innocent bystanders that are protected by your seatbelt usage. I suspect this is actually a stronger argument for the helmet than the belt, as the forces required to engage the seatbelt locking mechanism of your average car are high enough that car control is usually no longer an option. My experience with foreign object impacts tells me that I've had several on the helmet that resulted in minor effects, but would've been ugly without the lid.

Oh, and when someone starts screaming about STATS, I get really suspicious. For example, XRx notes that the bastion of helmet choice freedom, NH, had only 17 fatalities in '09 and the "fascist" MA had a whopping 49. This demonstrates, his logic goes, that MA's helmet law causes riders to have a "false sense of security invincibility" so more of them take their chances and pay the ultimate price. That sounds great until you realize that the population of MA is roughly 5 times that of NH, but the motorcycle fatality total was less than 3 times higher. Put another way, NH had 13 motorcycle deaths per million people and MA had 7.5. Go back just one more year, and it's even better for "fascist" MA: In 2008, NH had 22.3 deaths per million and MA had 6.3. Now, this is a simplified view, but I think you'll agree it's at least better than "California had more deaths than Wyoming, so the Pacific Ocean must be killing people!"
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I have to refute these, respectfully.

[quote=racingiron]If you want to ride a motorcycle naked on your private land, you're free to do so

I believe not, a friend years ago got a ticket for riding his ATV helmetless on private property, at a friend's house.

...so the costs of their medical assistance are necessarily rolled into the costs the rest of us pay, through higher doctor bills, insurance premiums, taxes, etc.

Same goes for eating too many donuts, hunting, playing sports, riding in cars near water with politicians that make these type of laws...

An airborne pebble, bird, large insect, or other object with an unfortunate trajectory could certainly cause a helmetless rider to lose control

Face protection is not mandatory, just a hard hat, virtually no protection from flying debris.


Oh, and when someone starts screaming about STATS, I get really suspicious. For example, XRx notes that the bastion of helmet choice freedom, NH, had only 17 fatalities in '09 and the "fascist" MA had a whopping 49. This demonstrates, his logic goes, that MA's helmet law causes riders to have a "false sense of security invincibility" so more of them take their chances and pay the ultimate price. That sounds great until you realize that the population of MA is roughly 5 times that of NH, but the motorcycle fatality total was less than 3 times higher.
... "California had more deaths than Wyoming, so the Pacific Ocean must be killing people!"

I considered this too, but in reality, it is apples to oranges, as population doesn't equal number of riders, and also lots of MA riders go to NH, but I'm guessing not vice versa, so population not very accurate. The point is very few fatalities in a no mandatory state, and the mandatory state has basically just as many fatalities.[/quote]
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:52 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
I believe not, a friend years ago got a ticket for riding his ATV helmetless on private property, at a friend's house.
I learned something new. This varies by state, of course, but in MA they require all OHV riders/passengers to be helmeted. However, that law is completely separate from the one that applies to motorcycles operating on a "public way."

Quote:
Same goes for eating too many donuts, hunting, playing sports,
However, those activities, with the possible exception of hunting, aren't considered privileges granted by the government.

Quote:
Face protection is not mandatory, just a hard hat, virtually no protection from flying debris.
I have to disagree on both points. First, MA General Law contains the following sentence just after the helmet provision:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section7
If a motorcycle is not equipped with a windshield or screen, the operator of such motorcycle shall wear eye glasses, goggles or a protective face shield when operating such vehicle.
Now, you may note that the shields on many modern motorcycles provide virtually no protection for the rider's head, and most "eye glasses" are hardly better, but the intent of the law is clear, especially considering when it was written. Second, my personal experience with foreign object impacts tells me that several have been on my helmet shell and would have very likely caused control problems had the shell not been present.

Quote:
I considered this too, but in reality, it is apples to oranges, as population doesn't equal number of riders, and also lots of MA riders go to NH, but I'm guessing not vice versa, so population not very accurate. The point is very few fatalities in a no mandatory state, and the mandatory state has basically just as many fatalities
As I wrote, it was a simplified view, but seems better than saying one state had "only 17" and another had "far more." (Apples to bananas?) It's notable that you've now softened your stance to "basically just as many." Both sides in this debate have a long history of attempting to use statistics to prove their points. As one who comes down near the middle, I'd say the stats aren't nearly as conclusive as either side wants us to believe. I took a closer look at some of the numbers, and roughly computed a value for fatalities per 10,000 registered motorcycles. The results for several states in your region:
NH = 3.6 (no law)
MA = 2.6
ME = 3.3 (no law)
VT = 2.4
RI = 2.1 (no law)
CT = 7.7 (no law)
However, like you mentioned, riders don't always stay in their state, especially in an area like New England where the states are relatively small. Then you have to take into account an urban population like Boston which will have more commuters and presumably higher risk traffic conditions. Comparing the numbers nationwide adds further complexity. For example, here in the south the riding season is much longer than in New England, which might explain why all of the states down here (regardless of the existence of helmet law) have a much larger number of deaths per 10,000 registered bikes.

In the end, I agree that education (not just for riders, but ALL users of public roads) is probably the most effective safety strategy. I also recognize that's a difficult goal to attain, especially in today's economic climate. "Nanny-state" rules such as helmet laws are far easier for lazy politicians to enact and claim hollow success. However, I don't view these rules as trampling on anyone's constitutional liberty.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:27 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlikehell
Be careful with what you wish for... yes, if motorcycles were outlawed there would be less deaths in traffic. Just wait for the politician who discovers this and phrases it right to the 90% of the population who don't ride.

To the contrary, YOU, are making MY point. It is the same mentality as the mandatory helmet mentality, that emboldens the nanny-staters to dictate what is safe and not, and those fascists would BE the ones to outlaw motorcycles incrementally. It's like the old saying, if you throw a frog in a pot of boiling water it would jump out, but if you put a frog in warm water and gradually turn up the heat, he would sit there until boiled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingiron
I learned something new. This varies by state, of course, but in MA they require all OHV riders/passengers to be helmeted. However, that law is completely separate from the one that applies to motorcycles operating on a "public way.".

I don't know man, I've also familiar with another case where a driver with a suspended license was recognized driving his truck on his own property by police and prosecuted. I think you overestimate the power of private property with the nanny-state fascists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingiron
Now, you may note that the shields on many modern motorcycles provide virtually no protection for the rider's head, and most "eye glasses" are hardly better, but the intent of the law is clear, especially considering when it was written...I don't view these rules as trampling on anyone's constitutional liberty.

The intent of the [utopian] law, and it's [fascist] effect are as usual, very different, and exactly why it shouldn't be law.

I somewhat regret bringing up the statistics, as the real relevant issue is personal liberty, and the statistics being far secondary, but my points about the statistics are also valid, showing the high rate of fatalities even with helmets, so on our way down this slippery nanny slope, we will make motorcycles more and more illegal, as above mentioned with power and age limitations, mandated by some politician looking for a new way to be relevant, getting away with it by picking on a small enough minority group. And also, you can't just dismiss my point about the false sense of security of helmets also getting people killed.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:36 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

From a different perspective, I do have another take on it.

I am big on states rights. Meaning giving each state the right to decide for itself what is good for it. The basic logic being that if a state gets it right or wrong, it is only that state that deals with the consequences. As opposed to federal statutes, where if they crooks, I mean government officials screw it up, it is the whole country that gets screwed. So along that line, I am far more tolerant of state mandated helmet laws, than as this poll implies, a federally mandated helmet law.

Also on another note, I can't help but mention that it's many of these same nanny-state-mentality people that dictate what a motorcyclist can't do with his own body, would angrily scream that the government keep their laws off a womans body when she wants to kill her unborn child. "Keep your laws off my body". Again, to me it should be up to each state to decide, instead of some self-important DC vermin dictator.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:46 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
From a different perspective, I do have another take on it.

I am big on states rights. Meaning giving each state the right to decide for itself what is good for it. The basic logic being that if a state gets it right or wrong, it is only that state that deals with the consequences. As opposed to federal statutes, where if they crooks, I mean government officials screw it up, it is the whole country that gets screwed. So along that line, I am far more tolerant of state mandated helmet laws, than as this poll implies, a federally mandated helmet law.

Also on another note, I can't help but mention that it's many of these same nanny-state-mentality people that dictate what a motorcyclist can't do with his own body, would angrily scream that the government keep their laws off a womans body when she wants to kill her unborn child. "Keep your laws off my body". Again, to me it should be up to each state to decide, instead of some self-important DC vermin dictator.

How are the state politicians any better (or worse) than the federal ones? The only difference to me seems that the state guys haven't managed to make the big time yet.

For me, helmet laws are either a good idea or they aren't, the locality doesn't change any of that.
'State rights' is just another political play by interest groups who suspect their agenda would be swamped by the majority at the federal level.

If you have 'state rights' why not have 'city rights'? That makes it even more local.

At least if we had a federal law, it would end the migration of loud-pipers / freedom lovers up to NH on weekends, so we would get a bit more peace.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:00 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshelver
How are the state politicians any better (or worse) than the federal ones? The only difference to me seems that the state guys haven't managed to make the big time yet.

For me, helmet laws are either a good idea or they aren't, the locality doesn't change any of that.
'State rights' is just another political play by interest groups who suspect their agenda would be swamped by the majority at the federal level.

If you have 'state rights' why not have 'city rights'? That makes it even more local.

At least if we had a federal law, it would end the migration of loud-pipers / freedom lovers up to NH on weekends, so we would get a bit more peace.

Perhaps because it's the foundation of our nation? Our republic was never intended to have a massive overreaching central government.

The intent was to allow each state to self-govern, allowing an almost Darwinian process to determine what works best rather than an elite group hundreds or thousands of miles away. Tell me, which form of taxation works best, income or property? What about term limits, vehicle safety or emissions standards, and gun laws?

Here's one for you; Do helmets truly reduce the number of fatalities per accident? BTW, Florida collects this particular piece of data.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Oh, the Florida 2009 Traffic Crash Statistics Report specifically states:

"Fifty-three percent of motorcyclists and their passengers killed were wearing helmets while 12% of bicyclists killed were wearing helmets. Thirty-seven percent of motorycliclists and their passengers killed were not wearing helmets while 88% of bicyclists killed were not wearing helmets"
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  #175  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:39 AM
it_mike it_mike is offline
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

BTW, similar statistics for 2010. The 2011 report isn't out yet.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/hsmvdocs/CS2009.pdf
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  #176  
Old 06-10-2012, 11:49 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshelver
How are the state politicians any better (or worse) than the federal ones?

As I stated above, here's anoter way of saying it. Bad state law on average only affects 2% of the citizens of the USA, whereas bad federal law affects 100%. Quite simple really. And also it's even better than that, because citizens can move to another state with a state gone bad, but nowhere to run from the federal level. This is a self evident and undeniable truth, that many people refuse to consider and/or admit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by it_mike
The intent was to allow each state to self-govern, allowing an almost Darwinian process to determine what works best rather than an elite group hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Great way of putting it.

Also I've often considered that again it's the same general voting block that in some arguments invoke Darwin and evolution, are the same that at every turn want to outlaw natural selection from humanity. I can go into many examples of what I am talking about.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:39 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
I think you overestimate the power of private property with the nanny-state fascists.
I was surprised about the MA OHV law, and I admit that I am disturbed by it. However, that's a completely separate issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
The intent of the [utopian] law, and it's [fascist] effect are as usual, very different, and exactly why it shouldn't be law.
The intent (of the faceshield provision) is clearly to protect the rider from hazards that would cause loss of control, thereby endangering other road users. I contend that the helmet provision at least partially has the same purpose. How is that any different from the seatbelt law?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
I somewhat regret bringing up the statistics, as the real relevant issue is personal liberty,
And that's where I think many people go off the tracks. Use of the public roads in a vehicle is not a RIGHT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XRx
And also, you can't just dismiss my point about the false sense of security of helmets also getting people killed.
Yes, I can dismiss it because it's presented as just a gut feeling, much the same as you presented your opinion that a statistically significant number of MA riders go to NH, but not many vice-versa. Your opinions might be true, but I'm not going to accept them on faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by it_mike
"Fifty-three percent of motorcyclists and their passengers killed were wearing helmets while 12% of bicyclists killed were wearing helmets. Thirty-seven percent of motorycliclists and their passengers killed were not wearing helmets while 88% of bicyclists killed were not wearing helmets"
Those numbers alone are meaningless. What are the overall usage numbers? Then you have to get into the demographics of helmet users vs. non-users. "Simple" statistics are often deceptive.
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  #178  
Old 06-10-2012, 02:24 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I can tell you by experience, though only anecdotally. I live next to the NH border here in MA. Trust me, there is much better riding in NH, with the white mountains being up there and far less congestion on average. When you go to NH most of the riders don't have helmets, so I can tell you they are not going to MA, since MA would make them put helmets on, which they chose not to. But MA riders do go to NH. And again, with all of this helmetless riding in NH, only 17 fatalities in 2009, and 35% of those HAD HELMETS ON, according to the data above from USA.GOV.

Yesterday I rode up there, and it was my pleasure to see people happily putting around town in whatever they chose to wear for protection. You can almost smell the freedom and lack of baby-sitters.

Yes it is a privelege to ride public roads, not a right. Keep empowering and emboldening the fascists, and it may not be even a privelege soon.

Again, I do wear a full face, and padding, and when in a car a seat belt, because I choose to. But I don't believe in empowering politicians to dictate others' behaviour.

After I hit send I'm going for a ride in NH again :-)

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  #179  
Old 08-05-2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

We are able to LEAGLY buy cigaretts to smoke until your lungs fail, alcohol to drink until your liver needs replacing or your pancreas falls out , eat ourselves into obesity and become diabetic without any government intervention.......but the state can require/demand I wear a helmet for my own PROTECTION.... Do you think it is for my own good ? Bet you money is involved.
Imagine if all car drivers and passengers were mandated to wearing helmets !! Why not ?? It would save lives , wouldn't it ?? Isn't that the point of all this ??
Unfortunetly our personal choices affect the people arround us.
P.S. I might not ride ATGATT , but always wear a lid.
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  #180  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:48 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim goose
Mo. is voting on the helmet law soon I think. Blows my mind when I cross the bridge to IL and see kids in shorts w/ no helmet on their bikes.

Okay wait, help me understand here. Are you saying when you cross the line, you actually see more people in shorts?

Me, I know when I cross into NH where helmets are optional, The gear is similar, just some choose no helmets or helmets, but the shorts are in both states. But many, including me, are helmets and shorts, usually, since it is joy rides when I'm in NH. When I'm commuting in MA, I'm in full gear because of specifically the DENSITY of idiots, not the fact that they are idiots, but the density of them at commutin time :-)
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