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Poll: I believe the self canceling turn signals work like this:
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I believe the self canceling turn signals work like this:

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:01 PM
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Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

An oldie but a goodie
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:46 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

200 meters.



do I win?
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:50 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

I know this sounds crazy but I swear they seem to have a lean angle sensor built into the damn thing. A low speed corner where the bike doesn't really lean over seems to leave the turn signals on longer than one where the bike leans.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2006, 04:08 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

It's magnesion I tell ya.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2006, 05:26 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

di-lithium crystals and STP mixed with hexametamoondust.
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2006, 12:26 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

When the bike reaches 21.1 gigawatts they cancel into the future.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2006, 07:32 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Cancell when they want to, I don't bother checking when.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2006, 02:08 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

They self-cancel?
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2006, 03:17 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

and the answer IS ??????
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2006, 08:24 PM
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Question Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

do cars have blinkers too????
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:37 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

200yds or metres, think it's in one of the books so RTFM
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2006, 01:58 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

It's a function of speed. Below an arbitrary speed, they cancel on distance. Above that abitrary speed, they cancel on time.
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2006, 12:54 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

I believe they are actually operated by a small group of lazy drunken elves that lurk somewhere inside the tuppeware on my K. Sometimes they cancel, sometimes they dont. I usually cancel them myself so as not to disturb the elves and risk them performing some unwanted electrical mischief on the bike.
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2006, 02:25 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exRtguy
I believe they are actually operated by a small group of lazy drunken elves that lurk somewhere inside the tuppeware on my K. Sometimes they cancel, sometimes they dont. I usually cancel them myself so as not to disturb the elves and risk them performing some unwanted electrical mischief on the bike.

I agree wholeheartedly. Not good to piss off the elves.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2006, 11:10 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

They seem to cancel whenever they damn well want to, I'm ususally home before they cancel.
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2006, 01:34 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

It seems that on my k1200s the indicators would self cancel according to the speed,as when I use them in town they seem to take quite a while to go off whilst outside at a faster speed they seem to go off much quicker.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2006, 08:40 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kralties
It seems that on my k1200s the indicators would self cancel according to the speed,as when I use them in town they seem to take quite a while to go off whilst outside at a faster speed they seem to go off much quicker.
this is just illusion outside of town it just seems quicker due to the time warp the bike goes into
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2006, 08:23 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

After all the posts on this stupid subject, has anyone ever contacted BMW Motorrad on this to see how they do in fact work??.
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:44 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

I know they self cancel but I never leave them on long enough to
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:13 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawK12GT
After all the posts on this stupid subject, has anyone ever contacted BMW Motorrad on this to see how they do in fact work??.

We wouldn't believe them anyway! I think they cancel when they are good and ready. Although, I think Ray has the correct answer.

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  #21  
Old 03-01-2006, 02:16 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

I always remember to cancel the turn signals on the BMW, but when I ride
my Ducati which doesn't have self cancelling turn signals I never remember
to cancel them.
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:07 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

What are those flashing lights for anyway???
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2006, 06:18 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Here is another twist, when I test rode a K1200S, the BMW rep said that whether you are gearing up or down is also a factor of when the signals cancel.
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2006, 07:47 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Idiots! Ride in Texas where no one uses signal lights. How they cancel themselves is redundant.
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoast
200 meters.



do I win?

You are correct is it STRICKTLY distance dependant...

ys
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  #26  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:08 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Mine works during daylight hours and when there is a full moon.
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2006, 10:57 AM
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Smile Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Self-canceling turn signalDocument:United States Patent 6982638Abstract:A self-canceling turn signal includes an inner wheel rotating at an inner velocity and an outer wheel rotating at an outer velocity. An inner rotational velocity of the inner wheel and an outer rotational velocity of the outer wheel may be measured and compared, and a turn signal may be responsive to a differential signal substantially proportional to the difference between the inner and the outer rotational velocities. The turn signal may signal a turn while the differential signal is greater than a predetermined differential signal.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2006, 12:26 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

What's the difference between 6 and 7?
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2006, 12:13 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

An independant researcher has discovered that the crossover point from staying on forever to cancelling based on time (20 seconds) is 20 Km per hour. Under 20 kph the turn signals never cancel. Above 20 kph and they cancel in 20 seconds regardless of speed or distance.

No one has the patience to find out what happens at exactly 20 kph.
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2006, 03:58 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

This ain't rocket science, people! The answer is in your bike's manual.

In the case of my '86 K100RT, the signals cancel by one of two circumstances.

- Below 50 km/H (30MPH) they cancel after a specific distance (forgot what the distance is, but about half a block).

- Above that speed, they cancel after a specific time has elapsed.

Hardly seems to need a poll to figure this out!

Bob.
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Old 05-23-2006, 06:06 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:Hardly seems to need a poll to figure this out!

Gosh, Bob, I sure have missed your posts!!! Glad to see you are still in form!
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2006, 01:37 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
Quote:Hardly seems to need a poll to figure this out!

Gosh, Bob, I sure have missed your posts!!! Glad to see you are still in form!
Hmmm. Note to self. Looked harsher than it was intended. Need to use more of those smiley thingies.

Aha. There we go!

Bob.
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Old 05-24-2006, 06:54 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
Hmmm. Note to self. Looked harsher than it was intended. Need to use more of those smiley thingies.

Aha. There we go!

Bob.

Can't find it... Appears that we've still got no consensus!!!
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2006, 09:27 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

"The use of turn signals is something I don't bother with, quite simply, it's beneath me; I leave that up to my chauffer and his staff. Even when having tea and crumpets in the twisties I still need'nt bother with such trivial dribble as peasants and turn signals."

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Old 05-24-2006, 03:12 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott13
"The use of turn signals is something I don't bother with, quite simply, it's beneath me; I leave that up to my chauffer and his staff. Even when having tea and crumpets in the twisties I still need'nt bother with such trivial dribble as peasants and turn signals."

Prince Charles

A chauffeur for a bike! I love it!!! Probably he's more concerned about wind resistance of his ears?

Bob.
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2006, 06:50 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
This ain't rocket science, people! The answer is in your bike's manual.

In the case of my '86 K100RT, the signals cancel by one of two circumstances.

- Below 50 km/H (30MPH) they cancel after a specific distance (forgot what the distance is, but about half a block).

- Above that speed, they cancel after a specific time has elapsed.

Hardly seems to need a poll to figure this out!

Bob.

We're a challenged group, can you refer us to a specific page #!
I actually checked mine once and at 30, 40 and 50 MPH they canceled at a different elapsed time..... so maybe it's a distance thing??
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:28 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousi
..... so maybe it's a distance thing??
..... or maybe it's a time thing??
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2006, 08:42 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
..... or maybe it's a time thing??


Prove it!
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2006, 09:09 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

It's an accelration thing. When accelerating they cancel faster. When decelrating they cancel slower.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:28 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousi
We're a challenged group, can you refer us to a specific page #!
I actually checked mine once and at 30, 40 and 50 MPH they canceled at a different elapsed time..... so maybe it's a distance thing??

Sure. Page 13 of the K100/K100RS/K100RT Riders Manual (first published 1984).

The signals auto-cancel....

"- after approximately 10 seconds at main-road speeds -above approximately 30 miles per hour or 60 km/h, or...
- after approximately 210 m (690 ft) in local or slow-moving traffic."

Don't know how this applies to other models, but this is the way it works on all the K100s.

Bob.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:10 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousi
Prove it!
I said maybe...
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  #42  
Old 05-25-2006, 12:33 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveD518
It's an accelration thing. When accelerating they cancel faster. When decelrating they cancel slower.
Steve
Sorry, that just ain't so. There are no acceleration sensors on any BMW bikes. Besides, what has acceleration got to do with anything? Why on earth would any designer link signal action to how fast you are changing your RATE of speed (which is all that acceleration is)? Suddenly accelerating at 100MPH is no different than suddenly accelerating at 10MPH, yet CLEARLY the signals behave differently in these two situations.

Have a look at my previous post for a quote from the K100 manual to see how this really works.

Bob.
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  #43  
Old 11-05-2006, 07:31 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Attachment 2771

Let me explain! The self cancel is activated when you pass thru the vertical plane and stops (the signal) when you return to upright position. If you continue turning; ie: in a circle in a parking lot, never returning to vertical...you'll continue blinking. Try it; and take movies to post here for all to see.
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  #44  
Old 11-05-2006, 08:22 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

So, how do they work? I know from experience that there is a sensor in the final drive on my 98 Taxi that reads a notch in the hub as it turns. At least that's what my local dealer tech (Jon Ross of Capitol BMW/Triumph in Raleigh) told me. I can testify to the notch thing as the final drive was replaced with a part that did not have the notch and the self cancelers did not work at all. Once the replacement for the replacement was installed viola the cancelers were back. The question is is this the only factor or is there more to it? Since the cancelers did not work at all with the notch missing it lead me to believe the hub sensor was either the only component or an intrigal part of the system.

Waiting on further enlightenment...

Tom T. in NC
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Old 11-05-2006, 06:50 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob1949
Attachment 2771

Let me explain! The self cancel is activated when you pass thru the vertical plane and stops (the signal) when you return to upright position. If you continue turning; ie: in a circle in a parking lot, never returning to vertical...you'll continue blinking. Try it; and take movies to post here for all to see.
Not only is this incorrect, it cannot possibly work. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this is so hard to figure out. The answer was in my bike's owners manual, and quoted in an earlier post. Doesn't anyone read their owners manuals?

Read the earlier quote from a BMW manual as to how these things actually work.

As for sensing the bike being vertical, this is impossible. Because when a bike leans into a corner, centrifugal force perfectly cancels the lean of the bike. Therefore, if you are leaned into a corner (say) 30 off the vertical, and you had a plumb bob hanging from the bike, it would ALSO point at the same 30. It would obviously NOT point straight down! No matter what angle you were to lean at, any sensor (whether a plumb or, or an electronic acceleration sensor) will always sense "down" as being the same angle as you are leaning at, and so no sensor would be able to tell if you were leaning into a corner, or riding in a straight line since"down" would always be sensed as being parallel to your wheels even if you are leaned way over.

But more to the point, no BMW bike has any sensor of any sort that can measure the acceleration caused by gravity in the first place. Check any bike's electrical schematic; there are none!

As was quoted earlier from a BMW manual. the signals are switched off if one of two situations occur.

1) Above 50 km/h they cancel after a specific time.

2) Below 50 km/h they cancel after a specific distance.

Information on "distance" is obtained from the electronic speedometer, and a simple electronic timer is used to determine elapsed time. It is just that simple!

.
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Old 11-05-2006, 07:00 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

I could be wrong Bob, but I think he was joking! He had to be.
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Old 11-05-2006, 08:32 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Only thing missing was the movie.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2006, 01:45 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
I could be wrong Bob, but I think he was joking! He had to be.
I hope so. I assumed he was serious, and the engineer in me basically was recoiling in horror. Maybe it is me that is too serious here!
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Old 11-06-2006, 07:20 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

RFW:
Bob, No offense intended. The subject is just too tempting. BTW, we all know signal cancellation is driven by lunar phase? I'll be serious, from observation on 2 K bikes over 60,000 miles, the signal stops after approx 1/10 mile on the odometer...all the time, night and day, at any speed, not subject to any lean angle.

I always liked Vancouver.
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:09 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Has anyone considered that it may be the PFM principle that makes the turn signal cancel? Herb
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  #51  
Old 11-06-2006, 12:10 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob1949
RFW:
Bob, No offense intended. The subject is just too tempting. BTW, we all know signal cancellation is driven by lunar phase?
Well at least that explains the little Lunar Phase-O-Meter that I noticed in the bike's electronics.
Quote:
I always liked Vancouver.
Well, right now, it is pouring rain. Has been without letup since last evening. About 15mm (3/4") average an hour. All evening, All night. Will continue most of the day too. This bit of dampness has been going on almost continuously for nearly a week. I still ride every day to and from work (15km each way), but it is getting more tha a bit annoying, and I think if you had to put up with this all the time, you may find your liking for the place may be tempered somewhat!
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  #52  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:42 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vics
An oldie but a goodie
2007 K1200S Owners Manual actually states EXACTLY what two parameters the signals cancel under. I would post the answer, but something tells me a direct reading of the 2007 owners manual might be more interesting.

p.s. Not sure if it's in the 2006 K1200S manual, so that settles the "what year" question once and for all.
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Old 12-04-2006, 05:59 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
2007 K1200S Owners Manual actually states EXACTLY what two parameters the signals cancel under. I would post the answer, but something tells me a direct reading of the 2007 owners manual might be more interesting.

p.s. Not sure if it's in the 2006 K1200S manual, so that settles the "what year" question once and for all.
As I stated months ago in this thread, the owners manual for my 20 year old K100RT also specifies exactly what parameters are used to cancel the signals. I am astounded that there is any discussion on this subject at all! I rather doubt that BMW omitted this information form the manual of ANY bike they made with auto-cancelling signals.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:04 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
As I stated months ago in this thread, the owners manual for my 20 year old K100RT also specifies exactly what parameters are used to cancel the signals. I am astounded that there is any discussion on this subject at all! I rather doubt that BMW omitted this information form the manual of ANY bike they made with auto-cancelling signals.

In my K1 manual there is a description as well, in my K1200RS manual there is none, my K100LT manual is missing. This is all beside the point: if you're in to reading manuals you're just to lazy to do some real life checks on how it all works - just as people who who keep their workbench clean: they're just to lazy to look!
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:47 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlikehell
......... if you're in to reading manuals .............
Picked up the manual October 28th. The bike Oct 31st. :banana santa:
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:08 AM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

It 300 meters. I assume that it is due to the fact that in Germany the yellow direction signs are usually placed 300 meters before a crossing.

Tom
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:05 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Mine never seem to work. And when they do it's never at the same time or distance.I purchased a yamaha xs1100 back when they came out in 1978.It was a new thing way back then and they worked very well.BMW wiring has allways been a sore spot with me.It would be nice if they hired a couple of Japs to over see and design there electrical systems.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:39 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Self canceling turn signals work by turning them selves of by themselves, i.e. they cancel themselves.
Hope this helps.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:42 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
Mine never seem to work. And when they do it's never at the same time or distance.I purchased a yamaha xs1100 back when they came out in 1978.It was a new thing way back then and they worked very well.BMW wiring has allways been a sore spot with me.It would be nice if they hired a couple of Japs to over see and design there electrical systems.
They solve the problem by not having self cancelling signals! At least my friend's ST1300 doesn't and he goes on for miles with the things blinking.

The self cancelling signals on my good old '86 K100RT have always worked exactly as the manual states. Below city speeds, they cancel after a specific distance. Above that speed they cancel aftger a specific elapsed time. WHat's so hard about that?
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No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:58 PM
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Re: Self canceling turn signals..So how DO they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
They solve the problem by not having self cancelling signals! At least my friend's ST1300 doesn't and he goes on for miles with the things blinking.

The self cancelling signals on my good old '86 K100RT have always worked exactly as the manual states. Below city speeds, they cancel after a specific distance. Above that speed they cancel aftger a specific elapsed time. WHat's so hard about that?
well I gave up on mine shortly after buying my k12s. I recently have been testing them after my last post and they are working better than before but not 100%.It may have something to do with a computer up grade.I know my vest would not work after my last up grade. It is a 5 amp wieder vest .so i went out and got a 3.6 I think amp black jack vest.It sucks unless it is still fairly warm out. I then wired the bikes outlet directly to the battery and used the can bus wire for the outlet that my radar detector uses. Lot of work for somthing that should have worked in the first place.
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