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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:37 PM
viclava viclava is offline
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03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Just bought the bike and did some research on service history, and found out from a BMW dealer he former owner didn't normally go to for regular service, that they recommended a future final drive replacement or repair, but no notes, and the tech is no longer at the dealer😕.

So, I drained and inspected, because I can hear no obvious noises when rotating rear wheel and there is no lateral movement when trying to move wheel back and forth. I see these tiny shiny metal particles in oil, but not sure it's really dire, but then again, I'm new to BMW's all together. Any thoughts?

Well, I guess my pic files are too big, and I do not know how tommake them smaller to post😡

Last edited by viclava : 09-29-2017 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Pics
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:20 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

If only tiny bits, change the oil and check & change again in a thousand miles. If okay go to the normal interval. I suspect you have no worries. It probably is just too long. (flakes rather than very tiny bits, in the oil are a sign of impending disaster.)
Many people do much of their own service because of costs. Lack of service because of ignorance is a problem though. I had a tire change customer come in the other day and we started looking at this bike. Final drive pivot journal adjustment loose. Whether it is just the adjustment or the bearings, I don't know with out opening up things. The items needing attention were quickly adding up to the value of the 2001 RT. I pointed out that he would have a good bike for many more years if he caught up with what was needed and would be cheaper than a newer one. This rant is only here due to your maintenance reference.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by viclava

Well, I guess my pic files are too big, and I do not know how to make them smaller to post��

Here's your pictures from the MOA forum.





There's a final drive for sale in the classifieds for $175 shipped.
http://www.i-bmw.com/classifieds/sho...for-sale&cat=6
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:39 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Lee, thanks so much for doing that! Much appreciated. I figure I would put it out on a couple of the forums to hopefully receive some good input. I bought a used final drive off of EBay from a 02 with 17k miles for $180, I have it should I need to replace.

I suspect the tech who replaced oil about a thousand miles ago saw what I took pics of and made that recommendation. What are your thoughts? Is it hard to replace final drive?

Thanks in advance,

Scott
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2017, 03:30 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

If that oil is only 1000 miles old you may be using that ebay final drive. I would clean the plug and do your own 1000 mile check up.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Yea, kinda thinking so. I need to purchase a Clymer manual. In your estimation, what's the difficulty level for R&R the final drive?
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:30 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

About a two hour job at the shop. So count on a Saturday, If I was doing it I would set aside 3 or 4 hours. Some things that will come up; you are going to have the bike on the center stand and rear wheel removed, You will be removing the lower shock bolt, support the final drive on some blocks touching the brake disk. Now the interesting part, the lock nut on the inside journal shaft and that journal shaft will probably have loctite on it and you should not try to remove them without first heating them to about 250 *F. It will be enough to soften things. The inside one is the adjustment one, the outer one is the fixed position. I do suggest you use the Clymer book for the details and torques. The inner one is snugged down and then loosened then torqued to light amount, 7 Ft/lbs comes to mind but check. But things to check when you have the journals out how is the bearing condition of the one going in. Smooth is good. This is a good time to pull the drive shaft and moly lube the the splines both ends. Clymer will tell you how. I recommend you purchase a new rubber boot to go back in. Yours is old and the plastic snap ring inside is not up to snuff nor the rubber boot. It needs to be dry inside there. Use some rubber grease to help installation of the boot. Snap on back half first then the forward part.
You will need a 30mm deep socket for the lock nut on the journal pins. Factory technique is using a window socket with a 12mm allen L wrench fit inside to hold the journal while you torque the lock nut. You can cheat by marking the journal with a felt tip and a mark on the housing, torque up and see if things moved. Or you can contact me and I sell a window socket and 12 mm allen as a kit. see way back in classifieds.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:35 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by viclava
Lee, thanks so much for doing that! Much appreciated. I figure I would put it out on a couple of the forums to hopefully receive some good input. I bought a used final drive off of EBay from a 02 with 17k miles for $180, I have it should I need to replace.

I suspect the tech who replaced oil about a thousand miles ago saw what I took pics of and made that recommendation. What are your thoughts? Is it hard to replace final drive?

Thanks in advance,

Scott

I saw that final drive.Didn't buy it but did some other parts from the same bike.

Flakes in the oil?Not stuck to the magnet or magnetable?Hum.....use the 17k drive.
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:18 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Well, I'm a little confused. I'm just replacing the very rear final drive unit. Why do I need to take time whole drive shaft assuming out forward of the drive shaft? I guess I need a Clymer before I undertake this. I was under the impression that all I had to do is remove rear brake from rotor, remove wheel, and then R&R final drive. But then again, I have not done this before��. Sure wish I had someone close to me that has done this. I'm 2.5-3 hrs away from the nearest BMW mechanic or independent BMW mechanic unfortunately.
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Is there a tutorial video on this job floating around out there for this bike?
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2017, 01:44 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

For someone that has never done it, I think, Beech's time frame is a good reference. I did a swap on mine about a year ago and it took way less than that, but I was prepared and pretty much know the ropes on this. It is messy, but the physical work is not difficult at all. Beech's recommendation for pulling the whole drive shaft is to do preventive maintenance on the tranny end. I did not do that this time around. I did the route of marking the journal and housing, things worked well for me. I found the disc removal to be very easy, I had dreaded those bolts would be seized in their threads, but no, they were easy. A Clymer is very good to get, there is also the BMW shop manual, I used it this time around as I had misplaced my Clymer when I moved last (found it last week!). My rubber boot was fine and I used two large black zip ties to replace the prior ones I cut off. Finding one large/long enough was not happening, though I have since seen them in the HVAC areas of hardware and home supply stores. So, I guess what I am saying is follow the tutorial if you can find it, and follow at least one of the manuals, plan on at least half a day so you are not rushed, have all your tools and oil catchers and replacement oils ready, and you will be fine. If you need the relevant Shop Manual pages, let me know, maybe I can email them to you.
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

You are basically correct. But since you are there you should lube the front splines. You can pass on that of course.
But the pivot journals that need to be removed to take the final drive off from the shaft casing are loctite treated and If they have never been out since the factory you run a high chance of pulling the aluminum threads out with the journals if you don't follow procedures. The bearings that these journals fit into tend to get brinelled and you check for that by spinning the bearing inner race with your finger looking for any bumpy feeling. Or as with the front spline lube you could ignore it.
Yes, you need Clymer's book or the factory service manual on DVD.
30 seconds on google, here is your video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0_j8SuiFQI
I have not watched this as it is 30 minutes long.
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:27 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=49032
Several videos that may help. I followed the procedures for the LT. Three parts to it.
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:30 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9AGKqoLsL8
This is part 2 of the 3 part series that helped replace a transmission seal.
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:52 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Beech, Jako, thank you immensely for the assistance. I had been told about phasing and things like that, and was wondering if I was going to be getting in over my head, but I feel a little more at ease with your direction.

I have the service manual downloaded from the internet, but thought I should acquire the Clymer as well. Together with the video, I will take it on I think. I'm sure I will have more questions. Thanks for the replies.

Cheers
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  #16  
Old 10-07-2017, 03:08 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Anyone know where I can get the zip ties for the final drive boot?
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Old 10-07-2017, 06:15 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

$4.00 from BMW for a 450mm Ziptie?

450mm is 18".I can't tell you where to find 18" zipties but the 17 3/4" are more common. And yes they'll work.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:45 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

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Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
$4.00 from BMW for a 450mm Ziptie?

450mm is 18".I can't tell you where to find 18" zipties but the 17 3/4" are more common. And yes they'll work.

Thread hyjack, For the past 8 months BMW OEM part prices have cought my attention. They are WAY too much. Please dump your local dealer, dump your web dealer and buy whatever aftermarket part that will work. This is just robbery. beech. Tell your dealer why!!! Talk about it. Don't roll over. Buy a Ruckus from Honda.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:35 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Ruckus?Nephews had one.Both beat the crap out of it.Still running....!

I re-use most of my zipties.FD boot? Cut the long one in the right place.Use at the shorter swingarm end.

On my K? SS re-usable clamps.Re-used from a 1988 R100GS.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

I also have what I believe to be a leaking pinion seal on my '02, getting quite bad I think. Can anyone tell me who Bruno is that Chris Harris talked about in the vid that Beech posted?
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:13 AM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Bruno was sick last year.I don't think he is back in business.

Not that hard the pinion seal now that I am tooled up but I sure had to learn a few "not by the BMW book"tricks.Tooling up/learning was the time consuming part.Send it to Anton and have the whole thing checked up ?

Effing FD parts....sure went up in price.

Small leak?Big Leak? Doesn't take much gear oil to make a mess?Old crusties have learned to ignore small leaks and keep an eye on the oil level.
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:54 AM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

It seems to be getting worse and worse, of course its not gonna get any better but I have been keeping an eye on it and the funny thing is it doesnt seem like the fluid level is dropping at all. Keeping an eye on both the tranny and final drive and theyre both still up to the mark.

Now whose Anton??:
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Actually whose Anton and where is he located? I wouldnt even consider changing the seal myself from what ive read it has to be spot on. I'd just as soon have the whole thing rebuilt properly.
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:30 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Internet is effed up here.$$$$ for data.

Anton Largiader.I posted the link to his shop in Virginia already on another thread on FDs.

But there you go:

http://vamotorrad.com
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:01 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Thanks Bud! Ill give him a shout.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:34 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

I have a follow up question before replacing my final drive unit with the eBay unit I acquired. The FD I got off eBay is an 02 with only 17k miles. Mine is the 93 w/71k but am wondering if it is just a swap or is there shimming to be done in the R&R process? I was under impression shimming is done internally in the FD gearing.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:55 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by viclava
I have a follow up question before replacing my final drive unit with the eBay unit I acquired. The FD I got off eBay is an 02 with only 17k miles. Mine is the 93 w/71k but am wondering if it is just a swap or is there shimming to be done in the R&R process? I was under impression shimming is done internally in the FD gearing.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Rebuilding the unit will require shimming the drive gears, swapping the units just requires care. Good luck with it!
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:12 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

I have a follow up question before replacing my final drive unit with the eBay unit I acquired. The FD I got off eBay is an 02 with only 17k miles. Mine is the 03 w/71k but am wondering if it is just a swap or is there shimming to be done in the R&R process? I was under impression shimming is done internally in the FD gearing.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:14 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Thx CJS350👍🏻
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:51 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Shimming is done when rebuilding. Just swapping out, go for it. Read up on proper torque for pivot bearings.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:57 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Thx Beech!!
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:32 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Shimming is done when rebuilding. Just swapping out, go for it. Read up on proper torque for pivot bearings.

Buying a used FD, arent you pretty much gonna have to have it shimmed eventually, especially if they came thru from the factory shimmed improperly? Mine is gonna be done with only 26k miles on it, well actually im having it done cause what the hell, if im having the pivot bearing seal done why not?
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:06 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Buying a used FD, arent you pretty much gonna have to have it shimmed eventually, especially if they came thru from the factory shimmed improperly? Mine is gonna be done with only 26k miles on it, well actually im having it done cause what the hell, if im having the pivot bearing seal done why not?

Years ago I bought a spare drive.Paid less than $100.00 including a mint rotor.

15Ks.Now has close to 100Ks.No signs of doom yet.But yes I did verify the shimming way back then and found it correct.

Now......will it take me there and back next summer?I think so.Otherwise I'll have to install my spare bearing under a shade tree.But only IF it is the big bearing,I have 2 drives here that are failed and NOT the big bearing.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:10 PM
viclava viclava is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

What parts if any are aluminum in the FD? I ask this, because when I inspected the FD oil last time I changed it, it had very small flakes but none of them were stuck to magnet.

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  #35  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:18 PM
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Beech Beech is online now
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Buying a used FD, arent you pretty much gonna have to have it shimmed eventually, especially if they came thru from the factory shimmed improperly? Mine is gonna be done with only 26k miles on it, well actually im having it done cause what the hell, if im having the pivot bearing seal done why not?
The new bearing is different from the original. 19 balls rather than the 17 of the old style. If it is open change the bearing.
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Old 10-25-2017, 05:47 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Years ago I bought a spare drive.Paid less than $100.00 including a mint rotor.

15Ks.Now has close to 100Ks.No signs of doom yet.But yes I did verify the shimming way back then and found it correct.

Now......will it take me there and back next summer?I think so.Otherwise I'll have to install my spare bearing under a shade tree.But only IF it is the big bearing,I have 2 drives here that are failed and NOT the big bearing.

Wouldnt mind finding a deal like that. Kind of torn between searching for a newer FD or just having mine checked and rebuilt. Decisions, decisions! Probably just end up having mine serviced.
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:37 PM
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Not many deals left.Jimtheenthusiast got the last one.Brand new FD on fleabay for????

I was looking for a deal on mint front rotors.Got them with all the bobbins etc from the same bike Mr.Viclava got the FD from.I am good for another 240,000 kms for less than $100.00.
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:48 AM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

I'll just have my FD rebuilt then, hopefully with it done properly and periodic maintenance aka changing fluid regularly it will last me a good long time.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:32 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Finally...Finally shipped my FD out to Anton VA. Motorrad today ! Only about 3 mos. later than I wanted.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:08 PM
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Sea Gull Sea Gull is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

I feel for you....I still have yet to send my original one off and the more I ride the bike with the used temporary one, the more I see I really need to send this off soon!!!
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:30 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: 03 k1200rs final drive oil inspection pics, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Gull
I feel for you....I still have yet to send my original one off and the more I ride the bike with the used temporary one, the more I see I really need to send this off soon!!!

May as well just send it out and get it done, for me it was a matter of $$$$ !
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