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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:08 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Vibration etc, important new info.

It would seem that all the problems of vibration that has been proven to be the primary gear oscillating due to excess bearing clearance in the centre of the gear is caused by the use of a cheap, low grade bearing [£4 approx.) fitted at the factory, because this bearing is just made from tube that encases the rollers it is NOT really a precision bearing and will be influenced by the bore it is pressed into and also varies due to its cheap nature.

The good news is I have found a replacement that takes all the ďwobbleĒ out and eliminates the vibration at a stroke,
Cost is around £16 and is a fully machined and ground bearing made to a much higher standard and accuracy than the original, make and part number is as follows.

INA (Walzlager) bearings, part number NK35/30-TV-XL.
This bearing when pressed into 2 gears gave a perfect palm press fit to the sleeve and measured zero wobble. Vibes gone. Good luck.
Ben
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:28 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

A fuller recap of what, where and other pertinent details about this vibration, will make your discovery much useful as this thread gets searched in the future.

Thanks for the info!
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Old 03-21-2018, 03:15 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Needs to be a sticky.
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Old 03-21-2018, 03:32 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
A fuller recap of what, where and other pertinent details about this vibration, will make your discovery much useful as this thread gets searched in the future.

Thanks for the info!

Check out K1300 vibration by Bengarzy in another post, itís all there.
Cheers
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2018, 03:38 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
Needs to be a sticky.
If only....😎
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2018, 04:13 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
Needs to be a sticky.
Hence my request to recap the problem in this thread, as the mods wonít sticky two threads.
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:18 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
It would seem that all the problems of vibration that has been proven to be the primary gear oscillating due to excess bearing clearance in the centre of the gear is caused by the use of a cheap, low grade bearing [£4 approx.) fitted at the factory, because this bearing is just made from tube that encases the rollers it is NOT really a precision bearing and will be influenced by the bore it is pressed into and also varies due to its cheap nature.

The good news is I have found a replacement that takes all the “wobble” out and eliminates the vibration at a stroke,
Cost is around £16 and is a fully machined and ground bearing made to a much higher standard and accuracy than the original, make and part number is as follows.

INA (Walzlager) bearings, part number NK35/30-TV-XL.
This bearing when pressed into 2 gears gave a perfect palm press fit to the sleeve and measured zero wobble. Vibes gone. Good luck.
Ben


Thanks for the info Ben and all the work you have put into solving this problem and passing on the information.

Dusty
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:18 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

I don't want luck.....
Is this the spec so we can cross reference?
http://medias.ina.de/medias/de!hp.ec...-TV-XL?lang=en
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:51 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

The sleeve it rides on from BMW which costs $65. I recommend replacing that part too as the sleeve in the clutch I got off eBay had major wear.
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:34 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
Hence my request to recap the problem in this thread, as the mods wonít sticky two threads.
Iím in engineering, I have as little to do with computers as possible, hence I only know how to post and reply...........if itís by Bengarzy itís about this vibrations on the K bikes...
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:37 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
I don't want luck.....
Is this the spec so we can cross reference?
http://medias.ina.de/medias/de!hp.ec...-TV-XL?lang=en
Thatís the one.
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:40 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstumpf750
The sleeve it rides on from BMW which costs $65. I recommend replacing that part too as the sleeve in the clutch I got off eBay had major wear.
I agree, if there is measurable wear replace as a pair. None of the ones I have seen had any wear at all though.
I imagine if the bearing is a really bad fit it will attack the sleeve, the bike you got yours from must have been a delight to ride.......not😂😂
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:18 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

http://en.bearing.iranballbearing.or...29-NK35-30-TV/
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:46 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
Iím in engineering, I have as little to do with computers as possible, hence I only know how to post and reply...........if itís by Bengarzy itís about this vibrations on the K bikes...


Here is a link to the other thread.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Cheers Joe😊
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2018, 12:45 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
Cheers Joe��
Hugh, thanks for all of this info. While I am happy with our S it is also true that different bikes vibrate at different levels. Vibration issue goes all the way back to the original 1985 K100RS where a few were smooth and ours was awful. In that case it manifest itself in the footpegs. The root cause was never found, or at least never published. Whatever you ride in the future I wish you many many miles of fun.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:35 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

I finally found a source for bearings via eBay. They are sold by an outfit called Radwell out of NJ that deals in NOS stuff. They buy unused parts from companies that go out of business and such. The ones I got had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a very long time. Country of manufacture is Germany. Iíve seen some listed as being made in Slovakia.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/INA-NK35-30...-/311891414805

http://www.radwell.com/en-US/
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:07 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstumpf750
I finally found a source for bearings via eBay. They are sold by an outfit called Radwell out of NJ that deals in NOS stuff. They buy unused parts from companies that go out of business and such. The ones I got had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a very long time. Country of manufacture is Germany. Iíve seen some listed as being made in Slovakia.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/INA-NK35-30...-/311891414805

http://www.radwell.com/en-US/

Iím pretty sure I got the last one!
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:58 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Tulips in Holland years back. The bid wars start. I have to admit, I have four! I'll never use them all. Parts in a few years for K bikes will be interesting. My alternator I paid 100$ for still looks good on the shelf.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:11 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Hugh, thanks for all of this info. While I am happy with our S it is also true that different bikes vibrate at different levels.
i had comments from BMW motorbike technicians at Worthingtons and Bikebiz about how smooth my K1300R engine sounded, and how other K1300 bike can be quite "rattlely" and buzzy. Also had a comment from Greyspikes when he rode mine to Armidale that it felt very smooth.
So did I just get a good one, or was it because i ran it in properly..... and started it properly (no sitting warm up) every time i rode it.
..... If all else fails, get a brand new BMW system 6 or 7 so it sounds quieter, or buy some of the heavy Throttlemeister bar ends off Pirate to take some buzz out of the handlebars.
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:56 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Golly gee gosh now im paranoid what if my bike is shaking and I have no basis for comparison never having ridden another like bike.
Damn its still cold winter will never end.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:07 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
Golly gee gosh now im paranoid what if my bike is shaking and I have no basis for comparison never having ridden another like bike.
Damn its still cold winter will never end.
Haha! Thatís why I bought one! Iím just assuming it will fail!
Itíll be my Ďantenna ringí
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:46 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

What is the difference in the INA NK35/30 and the INA NK35/30-XL? And, are SKF bearing acceptable? Thanks.
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:34 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

No one seems to know. Bengarzy told me via email that the bearing supplier he went to told him that was what he needed with no explanation of the XL. Iíve not found anything regarding it even on the manufacturerís website. Not sure if it makes a difference though. The spec is way higher than the stock formed cup bearing in all ways. It has precision tolerances, higher max rpm and higher max load. So I would not worry. Truthfully even a cheap Chinese version would be better than the stock formed cup bearing.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:12 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Now having gone back to the original thread, as I understand this, only one bearing is required per cycle? The photo shows a bearing in the clutch housing but addresses the rivets. The OP mentioned the primary gear. I'd like to know the specific location of the bearing or the name of the part(s) (primary gear?) in which the bearing(s) are installed. Thanks for your patience.

BTW, there are bearings listed here: http://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/INA...5-DIV-30-TV-XL

Use caution on buying bearings. I found several listings indicating the NK35/30 size, but in the description they were listed as 34x30 or an outer diameter of 50 instead of 45 and some had inner races in the photos.
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:56 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

It goes in the center of the clutch basket.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#...0-B3FD4E4CC044
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:02 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Ina/Schaeffler?

XL is for X-life:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...9WURxEaBTdDmG6
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:35 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Ben,

I appreciate you sharing your findings. I find it quite ironic how many are interested in making this swap now. My hand are very sensitive to vibration and when I mentioned this issue on my 2007, seemingly everybody here said "what vibration"? Similar with the piss poor fueling. I sold the bike and moved on. Those two issues sorted, it would likely still be in my garage.

I'm not going back, but I do appreciate your contribution that hopefully others can benefit from.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:39 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Xtra Life Eh? Well it makes sense one suspectsa higher rpm rating and a closer tolerance and maybe better materials or hardening yadda yadda. I do know when the TJ Jeep came out with nary a sign of hub lock people were freaking out. But those very pricey bearings they used in place worked fine to allow the hubs to be constantly engaged.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:48 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Has anyone changed it? Any difference?
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:04 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Not yet. I need to make a guide too to assist in pressing the bearing in and work has been keeping me too busy with OT. I also need to get a socket to remove the nut holding the clutch on and the crank lock tool along with a Barnett carbon clutch. And a gasket and bolts for the clutch cover. Damn I need a lot of stuff still. Guess I better start placing orders.

As for how it will feel? I expect it to end up butter smooth. A test fit of the new bearing to the sleeve it rides on resulted in no discernible slop, while the original was a complete rattle fest. I donít have the XL or eXtra Life version of the bearing. Iím not concerned because the specs for load and rpm are so much higher than the stock bearing itís of no concern.

Speaking of the tools to press the bearing out and in, I think Iíll make them available for loan to forum members.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:17 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Chris, where in NJ are you located?
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:23 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

For the idiots on the forum that have absolutely no mechanical skills (or tools), how long do you think a BMW tech (a master tech) would take to replace it?
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:48 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

I live off exit 100 of the GSP.

As for how long for A dealer do do it? Whatever time it takes to replace the clutch plus an hour to remove the old bearing and press in the new one. But the bigger trick is finding a dealer willing to do such a modification. Iím guessing you wonít. Both for liability reasons and because that would be admitting the vibration problem is real and has a cause and a fix which would open BMW up to lawsuits.

Better to find and independent shop that is up to doing that kind of work.

And if anyone says Max BMW I will smack you. Max is an asshole and treated me like shit with an obvious manufacturing defect on a body panel. So Iíll never grace his doors again and recommend no one else do either. Especially since several other customers were treated just as badly while I was there for different issues.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:02 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

who be he? this max?
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:23 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

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who be he? this max?
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:44 PM
slangford slangford is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

First off, many many thanks to Bengarzy; a true gentleman and engineer for all his hard work on this one. I have replaced said bearing, and as if by magic all the mysterious noises from the clutch have disappeared - it's like what I would have expected from new.

To answer some of the other questions here:

It took me around an hour for the complete job, but I have had the clutch out before, and I have got the tools for the job. Changing the actual bearing was around 3 minutes, once I'd located a suitable drift. If you have a hydraulic press the job would be a bit easier, but I managed to drift it out with a hammer with no problems. New one went in just as easy.

For anyone thinking about doing this job:

  • I wouldn't attempt it without the clutch basket holding tool
  • You should use a new gasket when putting the clutch cover back on
  • You might need a new gasket for the clutch slave, if you remove it (the job is easier if you do)
  • You're meant to use new bolts when you put the clutch cover back on - correct torque is 3Nm plus 90į, which stretches the bolts plastically, so they shouldn't be re-used. New bolts alone are a good £25 worth from a dealer.
  • You'll need to read the procedure in RepROM for removing and replacing clutch
  • Be very careful to align the clutch drive sprocket tabs with the corresponding cutouts on the clutch basket - failure to do so will lead to them breaking off and disappearing into the engine, which then involves taking the oil pan off (hours of work)
  • If you're not sure about any of this, probably best to get help from someone who's done it.

Again, thanks to Bengarzy (if I ever run into you, I'll happily buy you a pint or three!)


Steve
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Old 04-26-2018, 02:10 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
For the idiots on the forum that have absolutely no mechanical skills (or tools), how long do you think a BMW tech (a master tech) would take to replace it?
Having had mine to bits Bout 8 times, I can tell you itís all done in less than an hour so a tech should be able to equal that or better it
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:21 PM
jaredwilson jaredwilson is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Ben, Thanks for all your work in solving this issue! Much appreciated! Looking to order a bearing from Schaeffler.com. Forgive my ignorance on bearing specs, but should we check the box for the P5 tolerances?

Thanks!

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Old 04-28-2018, 12:20 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredwilson
Ben, Thanks for all your work in solving this issue! Much appreciated! Looking to order a bearing from Schaeffler.com. Forgive my ignorance on bearing specs, but should we check the box for the P5 tolerances?

Thanks!

Jared
Just thinking, you canít have a tolerance if you donít know the size or make the component the bearing is running on, BMW make that.
The only other bit of variation I know of is the 3 DOT, 2DOT, 1DOT you get on high quality ball races...... marked on the outer race edge is 1,2 or 3 dots denoting the running clearance of the bearing.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:29 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

In case people want to get this bearing. You may find, as I did, it listed as NK35/30-TV Precsion Bearing. This is the old designation. The same Schaeffler bearing is now NK35/30-TV-XL. I was told the listings often donít get changed for awhile. Sure confused me. They are now one and the same. They are available in North America through Motion Industries. Hope Iím not repeating info.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:23 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Just put an order for a NK35/30-TV-XL with my go-to bearing supplier here in sweden, they don't list it on their website but calling them there was no problem getting one.
Cost was about 200SEK/$23.

Will call my garage to get a quota on labour, if too high i will just order the gaskets and bolts, make my own tools as needed.

My big question is, should i replace the clutch while in there, and if so, which parts/manufacturer should i go for?

Bike is an 09 with 63500km on it, dont know if it ever has been replaced. Bike is really clunky into 1st gear, like i am smacking it in with a big sledge hammer no matter how smooth i try to do it.

On the bearing issue and solution, hat's off to bengarzy!!
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:31 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

The Barnett carbon clutch is probably the best choice. Itís what Iím gonna use and Bengarzy swears by them. I used their Kevlar clutches in a couple of VFR750s and a Triumph Sprint ST. Never had a problem.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:44 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Could not find any on their site for the k1300s......
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:01 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

http://www.barnettclutches.com/12/bm...bmw-k1300.html
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:20 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

A question for bengarzy. But first thank you for sharing your findings. My question, after replacing the bearing (and sleeve if nessessary) did you see any difference in changing gears? Seems like if the basket has the potencial to travel in an eccentric path, the clutch plates might drag and not rotate freely. This could lead to the lack of complete disengagement of the clutch. The ĎClunkí. Just musings.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:55 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

https://youtu.be/dL5-fOwTXoo?t=25s
Maybe the roller design is completely different and for the last versions Bmw already used the NK seriers rather than HK. I've already ordered a new NK and wait for possible vibration increases.....mine is 11/09.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:11 PM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

vm5 , looking at your video i thought i could do this myself....but Bmw does not sell springs separate.

Then there is the question of the rivets, where to find ones that are strong enough, or will any steel rivets work as long as it is the correct size?

Maybe the holes in the basket could be tapped and the rivets replaced by 12.9 bolts that are put in place with loctite ?

Would be a great job during the long winter to take the entire clutch apart, make the oil grooves in the center slightly larger, maybe some extra oil holes in the inner clutchplate carrier, replace the bearing, springs and clutch plates and balance the entire thing before refitting to bike.

But parts as rivets and springs are needed first.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:18 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias_K1300s
vm5 , looking at your video i thought i could do this myself....but Bmw does not sell springs separate.

Then there is the question of the rivets, where to find ones that are strong enough, or will any steel rivets work as long as it is the correct size?

Maybe the holes in the basket could be tapped and the rivets replaced by 12.9 bolts that are put in place with loctite ?

Would be a great job during the long winter to take the entire clutch apart, make the oil grooves in the center slightly larger, maybe some extra oil holes in the inner clutchplate carrier, replace the bearing, springs and clutch plates and balance the entire thing before refitting to bike.

But parts as rivets and springs are needed first.

I read in one of the long threads on here that the rivets are tapered and need to be replaced with tapered ones. Cant recall which thread.
Also Bengar\y checked into custom springs may have fotten em made not sure his threads are pretty much definitive for this issue though.
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  #50  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:24 PM
jaredwilson jaredwilson is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
I read in one of the long threads on here that the rivets are tapered and need to be replaced with tapered ones. Cant recall which thread.


I believe it's covered in this one: http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004

Also, Patrique83 provided a very good explanation of the tapered rivet issue on one of his youtube videos. Definitely worth a look.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:49 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow
A question for bengarzy. But first thank you for sharing your findings. My question, after replacing the bearing (and sleeve if nessessary) did you see any difference in changing gears? Seems like if the basket has the potencial to travel in an eccentric path, the clutch plates might drag and not rotate freely. This could lead to the lack of complete disengagement of the clutch. The ĎClunkí. Just musings.

If you fit the Barnett clutch pack and DONT refit the belville ring and washer, everything is great.
Every clutch in all types of bikes I have removed this regardless, as itís benifits (slightly more progressive clutch action) are far out weighed by clutch drag and clunky shifting.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:51 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vm5
https://youtu.be/dL5-fOwTXoo?t=25s
Maybe the roller design is completely different and for the last versions Bmw already used the NK seriers rather than HK. I've already ordered a new NK and wait for possible vibration increases.....mine is 11/09.
Nope, our two Ks were last of the build and have always had this cheap, poor precision bearing.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:35 AM
vm5 vm5 is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
Nope, our two Ks were last of the build and have always had this cheap, poor precision bearing.


Well, thank You for the information. The NK35/30-TV-XL is now in my hands together with the key to dismatle the clutch. I look forward to open it an change the roller.
Did You suggest to remove the anti judder spring also maintaining the original first smaller disc (smaller because has to host the anti judder spring) ?
I'm also thinking to modify the release bearing pin adding a spiral slot to the original two linear ones already present, hoping to let the oil flow better. When I'll do it I'll post a picture.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:31 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vm5
Well, thank You for the information. The NK35/30-TV-XL is now in my hands together with the key to dismatle the clutch. I look forward to open it an change the roller.
Did You suggest to remove the anti judder spring also maintaining the original first smaller disc (smaller because has to host the anti judder spring) ?
I'm also thinking to modify the release bearing pin adding a spiral slot to the original two linear ones already present, hoping to let the oil flow better. When I'll do it I'll post a picture.

Remove both parts of the ďanti judderĒ belville and disc but also fit a set of Barnett clutch plates, they donít judder or grunt .
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:02 PM
vm5 vm5 is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Maybe my modification will bring no benefits but, waiting to have the time to pull the new high quality roller and do more holes on the basket, i decided to try a modification to the release pin.
Don't laugh. I saw on Youtube that a small quantity of oil arrives on the basket at the low speeds, then i'm trying this modification hoping that it drag more oil when, with the pushed clutch, the pin turn slowly than the clutch (that turn anti clockwise).
In the next days I'll near if the "clunck" noise engaging the first gear will be reduced.

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Old 06-27-2018, 07:15 AM
vm5 vm5 is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

I decided to modify the oil passages on the basket and to add the new bearing. Then there's a little footage of the stranges things about the clutch. I look forward to the road test, because the new bearing with 0 tolerance seems a little too tight and I hope that it doesn't affect the gearbox functionality.
https://youtu.be/BThfiL5Y9bk
https://youtu.be/DYbHiYRiW8E
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  #57  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:11 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Fingers crossed for your road test. The machining on the oil jet pin looks well done. The spiral is beyond my pedestrian ability. The idea of a spiral cork screwing into the source of the oil flow has some elegance to it. Effective or not let us know. Beside there being an additional opening allowing more oil through, the spiralling action would sort of scoop oil into it. If there is little pressure behind this pin, the spiral might make little difference. Either way, that pin is a beautiful little thing and I hope for the best.
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:13 AM
vm5 vm5 is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Well first test after changing the bearing and adding more oil passages to the first clutch disc.


I concluded that i need to dismantle another time te clutch to find the right play with the NK bearing; it's too tight and it becames impossible to find the neutral because the gears continue to turn despite the clutch engaged.

The positive aspect is that i cannot think how less noisy the engine could be with the new bearing and this is an optimum result.

Maybe on my clucth basket the bearing seat is a little tight (with the original bearing i had only noise but not many vibrations) and it compress the bearing too much.


Now i think to pair the central ring to the clutch basket by hand on the lathe with sandpaper....a long job if you want to do it well.


It had looked like to be an easy job.....
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:30 AM
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

The proper method of experimentation is to introduce one variable at a time. When one makes more than one change at a time, one does not know which variable is causing the effect or if the combination of changes is causing the effect. That being said, I wish you good fortune with your experiment.
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:11 PM
vm5 vm5 is offline
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Re: Vibration etc, important new info.

Oh yes i think so, make more modifications simultaneusly could cause a lot of troubles.
Well, the first modification to the release pin seems to give beneficts with the engine cold, making the engage of the first gear quieter.
The change of the bearing was the second step but suddenly i saw that the inner bush of the bearing was too tight to put into. I tried the same to use the motorcycle with the new bearing (the original one let the basket gear move for more than 0,2 mm.....) but the search of the neutral was very difficult. And with the increase of engine temperature it get worse.
As the diameter of the bush increased under the effect of the temperature (caused by the too tight match)
Today i took away the bush and , with surprise, i discovered that his dimension goes from 35,01 mm to 35,02 from side to side (a conical profile.....). At the same time i think that also the seat of the bearing could be too tight and compressed the bearing but i preferred to modify the bush.

Lathe, paper sand, polishing machine, a lot of checks step by step and the bush fit in naturally without having to force it (now is 34,99 from side to side).
Tested and now is a little more noisy than yesterday ( so much better than in origin) but the search of the neutral is as usual very easy.

Moral of the question:
My k1300 wasn't noisy, only a little when release the gas driving down the hill.
I decide to open the clutch to increase the oil passages because i saw that there was a lot of clucth with only the two external discs damaged.

Now if somebody hasn't a noisy motorbike i suggest, in case of installation of NK bearing to check the clearance with the inner bush before installing all. The original HK bearing is ver very poor and made in a way that, if too tight installed, finish to adapt and develop more clearance. The NK no (in my opinion) and is much more precise (more rollers and different material and realization ).
I hope i was able to explain, with my poor english , my experience.
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