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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 08-19-2010, 09:02 PM
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Video of final drive repair

Rick found this video of repairing a final drive.
Thanks Rick
Thought I'd start a new thread and make it a sticky.
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv
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  #2  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:33 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: Video of final drive repair

This is an excellent 'how to' for those that think it's a simple repair. Just wait for some horsey pics at the start to pass by!

You can't easily show this using text posts and this Video captures the whole process except for the pinion. The author probably donated this vid to the riding community, but for those on slow connections it may be difficult to run. He could put this on some dvd blanks and sell them easy on Fleabay.

It's a long real-time video and you just have to be patient first time around, particularly getting to the meat of the crown wheel pre-load. He doesn't cover the pinion and the whole setup of shimming and pre-load from scratch or assuming a new crown wheel is being fitted, but we can wait for that on the next video!

What I learned (and I have repaired two RD's):

1. The rear wheel can fall off if the large crown bearing and cage gets totally smashed, because you were too stupid to have the bike trucked home. He makes all the right points about reasons for failure - no clear answer, but several possibilities.

2. Momma's oven at 200 degrees (F?) and freezer comes in very handy.

3. I liked the dial micrometer method, because you can calculate and pre-order the shim required, once you have the bearing. You can use more than one shim and when I did the last repair I ordered up some of the thinner sizes. I found the BMW pre-load method is just so confusing the way it is written around their service tools.

4. I liked using the air wrench on the bearing extractor. Never thought about that and it saves having to put tension on the extractor and tap the housing a step at a time.

The biggest problem for me first time was wanting to skip around the vid. as I quickly got impatient! I needed it on my hard drive, so right click on Lee's link and save about 315Mb to your hard drive. Just let it take its time if you are on a slow connection, then you can play off the hard drive and skip sections.

Thanks to the original author of the video and to Lee for sharing the link - Vox
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2010, 10:50 AM
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Re: Video of final drive repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
2. Momma's oven at 200 degrees (F?) and freezer comes in very handy.

Yes - its Fahrenheit - we use that measure over here in the colonies.

And I agree the video made the process seem not out of reach. I'd like to hear more about the pinion issue though.
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  #4  
Old 08-23-2010, 11:08 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: Video of final drive repair

Been there and it's even more unpleasant than what's here in the vid.

Special pin wrench needed for the pinion lock ring (but can be made).
Loctited parts.
Strong 'holding' jig needed to get the high tightening torque on the Loctited pinion nut.
Pinion nut needs to be replaced, not re-used.
Rather expensive looking pinion needle roller bearings, that I doubt could be sourced aftermarket.

Possibly a whole new ball game with pre-loads and tooth contact checks if components are replaced.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:27 AM
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Re: Video of final drive repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
Special pin wrench needed for the pinion lock ring (but can be made).
Loctited parts.
Strong 'holding' jig needed to get the high tightening torque on the Loctited pinion nut.

Yes I paid a lot of money to have the seal replaced....only to find out later that the wrench is the same as a Chevy Axle Nut Wrench, available at most Auto Parts stores for about $30.00.But it took 2 guys, heat and one of them very long (5-6 feet) 3/4" breakers bar to get it out,hence the high labor cost I had to pay.
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2010, 01:58 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: Video of final drive repair

I bought 6" of 1/4 thick wall steel tube (forgot the size, but a standard imperial size slips down) then cut verticals with a hacksaw for the pegs/pins and ground away the waste metal with the edge of an angle grinder. Then a wide slot in the opposite end to take a bridge of 1/4" flat steel with a 1/2" square hole in the centre for a torque wrench, tack welded the plate to the tube. Took about 1/2 hour to make once I got the metal.

Yes and then there was the next problem since they had Loctited the thing in, and another problem requiring a steel frame to hold and lock the pinion and drive whilst you put it all back with mega torque on the use once nut.

As I said, I'd like to see the next vid. cover the pinion.
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2010, 07:15 PM
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Re: Video of final drive repair

Vox do you have any photos of the "jig" you created?

Also, would an air impact wrench save all the headaches of a 14' long breaker bar, and 4 strong backs to lean on it?
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2010, 04:05 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: Video of final drive repair

Sorry no, but photo coming up soon as I am doing a better job on the first one I made. I looked at the photos in Clymer/BMW first and thought that looks damn complicated, do I need that and welded something quick and dirty. It worked the last time, but I now feel something stronger is needed. I've got some thicker steel angle and a spare drive on the bench, so I'll have another go. I also tried making a hardwood wedge to drive between the pinion and crown, kinda works but it's a 'squidgy' torque I'm not confident with so wouldn't recommend.

It's a stupid problem to meet and frustrating to solve, so I concluded their 'holding jig' and a solid vise is actually quite important. You don't want a pinion nut loosening whilst riding and there's only torque and Loctite stopping it.

I'll try the air wrench, but my impression is the average air wrench reaches a max impact limit and doesn't always shift the high torque Loctited fasteners (like the swingarm bearing). I would be cautious that the 4 pins on the remover don't break. I wondered about oil quench hardening the end. As it is, I accept the pins might need to be re-cut which is why I started with a 6" long tube. I also used long cheater bars and I would try the 'cook in mommas oven' trick next time for release, where I was replacing the pinion oilseal anyway.

Pinion nut remover here: http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=27091

Last edited by voxmagna : 08-25-2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: Add link
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:23 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: Video of final drive repair

OK I finished the job a while back and just forgot I left this thread a bit open ended.

Here are some pics of the vise holding jig. I took a piece of sheet steel of some 4mm thick (well 2 pieces zip welded togther, as I hadn't got anything larger to hand) - thicker sheet, say 6mm would have been nice. Then I welded on a piece of 2" steel angle shown underneath, for the vise grip. The first horizontal mounting position requires the drive sat on the sheet and holes drilled corresponding to brake disk mounting position - bolts are used to fix the drive to the plate from underneath. I used some 32mm Tufnol rod as spacers to bolt through the brake caliper flange with M10 threaded rod. I don't have a lathe. I cut the Tufnol spacers with a hacksaw having fixed a worm hose clip on the rod to use as a guide. Drilling the Tufnol on center 10.5mm diameter by eye in a drill press wasn't too dificult either. In this position the drive is well and truly locked so you can get hefty torque on the pinion nut.

The other mounting positions are achieved by welding up some simple brackets, making spacers,and drilling new holes. You end up with several holes in different locations, I marked mine so I would remember which one's to use for each position.

Different clamping positions are needed depending on what repair operations you are doing.

Whilst the original video link is a very useful starter it has one flaw and that is at the last important stage of determining the shim to get the specified pre load.

If you look carefully you will see the dial micrometer in the video sat on the bench. There is no way you can accurately get a measurement of the crown assembly free play to calculate the pre-load shim required. Even using a magnetic base on my sheet steel, there was sufficient movement of the drive when you raise the crown assembly with spanners to give errors.

I didn't find it acceptable to repeat the measurements several times and take the average, as the variation is dial readings was huge and well outside the range of one shim size.

If you are levering the crown shaft against the drive body, the only place to fix the dial gauge is on the drive itself. You know when you have it right, because at most you will only see 2 thou variation as you check the space inside the housing at several points, before calculating the shim size which includes the extra allowance for pre-load.

Bob (RFW) has posted his feeler gauge method. In fact there is just enough room to slide in the tip of a (bent) feeler and I think this should be done first, to make sure you don't make a mistake reading the dial gauge!

The other feature of my holding and measuring jig is the 8mm thick circular steel plate that is bolted to the wheel flange using the ABS ring bolts. This was first drilled using a paper template aligned to ABS bolt holes, then cut out with a jig saw, to be about 3mm larger than the wheel hub flang. The reason the plate is so thick, is even 3mm steel can flex at the edges and you can see this on the dial gauge.

This plate provides a solid surface on which to rest the dial gauge, and the 3mm 'over hang' provides the lever points to raise the hub in the empty space, using open ended spanners. Because the dial gauge is fixed to the drive body, the reaction force from spanners lifting the crown assembly does not affect the measurement.

I didn't find putting the assembly in the oven and pre-heating gave sufficient time to get the measurement by lifting the crown assembly. By the time it comes out and the cover cools, the dial gauge is not responding when you try lifting the hub with the spanners.

Some skill is needed here, but I was able to leave the whole assembly in the vise with dial gauge attached and just whip around the cover seven times with a propane torch. The dial gauge should always go back to the same point if the assembly is first lifted, allowed to cool and then the case is heated allowing the bearing to drop. The vise jig is sufficiently rigid that you can gently tap the hub downwards to make sure the dial gauge returns to the same zero point, within a couple of thou.

I tested my 12 volt digital torque display impact wrench on this drives pinion nut several times and compared results with my clicker torque wrench before applying the Loctite. I'm now more confident the 12 volt impact wrench is the tool to use and much safer, but it will be a long time before I do 100K on a drive to say for definite it is ok!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fixing the dial gauge (small).jpg (114.7 KB, 201 views)
File Type: jpg horizontal inverted (small).jpg (90.8 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg Horizontal showing supports.jpg (81.8 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg underneath clamped in vise (small).jpg (66.4 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg Vise Jig horizontal (small).jpg (103.7 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg vise jig vertical (small).jpg (119.1 KB, 173 views)
File Type: jpg Do NOT do this (small).jpg (144.7 KB, 150 views)
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