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  #1  
Old 04-02-2018, 11:01 AM
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The success of gun control in England

Knife Attacks Propel London To Outpace NYC's Murder Rate For First Time In Modern History

https://www.dailywire.com/news/28939...ign=benshapiro
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:33 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Up close and personal.

There are more killings by blade than by bullets and suicide is still the leader in firearm deaths in the US.

If I remember rightly, there was a recent push in England to outlaw butcher knives in the home kitchen. The politicians saw this one coming... hide your rolling pins.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:54 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about.

At this point that could not happen in the US, but some politicans don't get it or just don't care. Its all about their anti-gun agenda and has nothing to do with what is right.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:52 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about.

At this point that could not happen in the US, but some politicans don't get it or just don't care. Its all about their anti-gun agenda and has nothing to do with what is right.
At this point it couldn’t happen here in a matter of days....but...as long as it takes...
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:04 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about.

At this point that could not happen in the US, but some politicans don't get it or just don't care. Its all about their anti-gun agenda and has nothing to do with what is right.

London is politically lost, freedoms are being sold to placate the Mayor's Muslim religion, no matter what he says. Only 10% of the police force is armed. They say more are being trained.

England can only defend themselves with a farmer's pitchfork. They have a long lost history of being conquered. They fought the crusades on foreign soil to not have to fight on their own. They have disarmed themselves and are sure to lose more with time.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:09 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about. At this point that could not happen in the US, but some politicans don't get it or just don't care. Its all about their anti-gun agenda and has nothing to do with what is right.

If you think you and a couple of like minded friends armed, can stand up to a platoon of USA army troops for any amount of time over 3 minutes your nuts. This thing about standing up to the government if needed is dopey, for whatever reason. Times gone by.

And I'm a weapons owner.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:29 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Looks like a dick measuring thread to me. The article is simply a comparison with London and New York.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:30 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:40 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about.

At this point that could not happen in the US, but some politicans don't get it or just don't care. Its all about their anti-gun agenda and has nothing to do with what is right.

You’ve got to be joking what about the UKs armed forces which are amongst the best in the world and then of course there’s their allies. Please advise how ‘small’ a force would be required America seems to be at war with itself over the gun control issue. No external forces needed there!
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:56 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Looks like a dick measuring thread to me. The article is simply a comparison with London and New York.

Too right.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:41 AM
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Red face Re: The success of gun control in England

At one time, long knives were outlawed in Italy.

But that was before modern firearms were available.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:21 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Looks like a dick measuring thread to me. The article is simply a comparison with London and New York.

True enough. And what a terrible time it is for the people of London. While the murder rate in New York has been steadily declining, such a dramatic rise in violent crime is never a good thing. Who knows if London or the UK will be able to get this under control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
You’ve got to be joking what about the UKs armed forces which are amongst the best in the world and then of course there’s their allies. Please advise how ‘small’ a force would be required America seems to be at war with itself over the gun control issue. No external forces needed there!

I absolutely agree. The British armed forces are some of the best fighting forces in the world. And while I do not know all of the rules associated with deploying them in country (The US has the Posse Comitatus Act) they are a very effective and lethal force. I am also pretty sure the UK has a robust police presence with special units designed to combat internal crime.

What passes for acceptable police behavior in the UK (and elsewhere for that matter) does not pass the standard in the US. Nor should it be compared. I was watching a documentary on the state of crime in the UK a few weeks ago and they have very little similarity to how the US police is curtailed. For example: The police had set up a road block and was running license plates. When a match was made in a database of a person who had been flagged, the car was pulled over, occupants removed, car searched, identifications verified, and either the car/occupants were released or an arrest was made witht he vehicle being impounded. That would never fly in the US as it is a violation of the 4th Amendment. So, very different circumstances.

I hope the folks in London and the rest of the UK can get their house in order.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:22 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Knife Attacks Propel London To Outpace NYC's Murder Rate For First Time In Modern History

https://www.dailywire.com/news/28939...ign=benshapiro

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Old 04-03-2018, 08:43 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
True enough. And what a terrible time it is for the people of London. While the murder rate in New York has been steadily declining, such a dramatic rise in violent crime is never a good thing. Who knows if London or the UK will be able to get this under control.



I absolutely agree. The British armed forces are some of the best fighting forces in the world. And while I do not know all of the rules associated with deploying them in country (The US has the Posse Comitatus Act) they are a very effective and lethal force. I am also pretty sure the UK has a robust police presence with special units designed to combat internal crime.

What passes for acceptable police behavior in the UK (and elsewhere for that matter) does not pass the standard in the US. Nor should it be compared. I was watching a documentary on the state of crime in the UK a few weeks ago and they have very little similarity to how the US police is curtailed. For example: The police had set up a road block and was running license plates. When a match was made in a database of a person who had been flagged, the car was pulled over, occupants removed, car searched, identifications verified, and either the car/occupants were released or an arrest was made witht he vehicle being impounded. That would never fly in the US as it is a violation of the 4th Amendment. So, very different circumstances.

I hope the folks in London and the rest of the UK can get their house in order.

Australian police have number plate recognition cameras on their cars, they are running every plate that goes past the car, no pissing around with road blocks, no getting any permission.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:47 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Australian police have number plate recognition cameras on their cars, they are running every plate that goes past the car, no pissing around with road blocks, no getting any permission.

Yeah, that wouldn't stand in the US. While jurisdictions do run plate camera's, they are only looking for stolen cars unless there is a warrant out for the arrest of the owner/occupants. Usually this means due process where the police go in front of a judge to get warrants (arrest or search). Anything else would be a violation of our rights and could be thrown out of a court of law. Oh, and just because they get a hit on the plate for an arrest warrant doesn't mean they can just pull the car over. There must be some form of positive ID on the occupants.

Imagine finding a criminal, violating his rights and having that criminal walk out of court. It happens here at times. The police have a fine line to walk, and most Americans are good with this (I am!).
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:48 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by Beech
If you think you and a couple of like minded friends armed, can stand up to a platoon of USA army troops for any amount of time over 3 minutes your nuts. This thing about standing up to the government if needed is dopey, for whatever reason. Times gone by.

And I'm a weapons owner.
There is like minded USA army troops also....not all troops will fight for the commies against freedom loving Americans...
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:51 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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There is like minded USA army troops also....not all troops will fight for the commies against freedom loving Americans...

This is the truth. Most veterans, who have sworn to protect the Constitution will not allow a tyrannical government to thrive. And there are more veterans than active duty personel. And most veterans know their home town's very well.

Civil war will not be pretty.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:12 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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This is the truth.

Civil war will not be pretty.
But is inevitable.... We have lost control of our government...
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:15 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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But is inevitable.... We have lost control of our government...

I haven't given up hope. But I am also stocking up on ammo.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:55 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
If you think you and a couple of like minded friends armed, can stand up to a platoon of USA army troops for any amount of time over 3 minutes your nuts. This thing about standing up to the government if needed is dopey, for whatever reason. Times gone by.

And I'm a weapons owner.
IMO, our Gov't would never turn our Armed Forces on its citizenry, and if in the unlikely event that did happen, there would be an overwhelming majority that would never go along with such a thing.

Besides & if they did, I'd rather be armed & have a chance no matter how small, versus not being armed and have no chance at all.
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:08 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Looks like a dick measuring thread to me. The article is simply a comparison with London and New York.
Well if that's the case, then Chicago should've been included. Chitown definitely has the biggest dick by far, the bondefide John Holmes of American cities.

And like NYC & Londonistan, it's a 'gun free zone' city with gobs of leftist gun control.
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:18 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
If you think you and a couple of like minded friends armed, can stand up to a platoon of USA army troops for any amount of time over 3 minutes your nuts. This thing about standing up to the government if needed is dopey, for whatever reason. Times gone by.

And I'm a weapons owner.
I agree in a typical battle, if there is a such thing, our military would run over a few locals with guns. Like they did in Iraq, Afgahastan. But I think more important is what the impact of an over whelming military force wiping out a group of what a lot would think of as loyal patriots. The news media would have a field day. The number of unarmed protests could be a force. I have to think our leaders think of the public opinion of such an action and choose to avoid it. Has anyone heard of the Battle of Athens? It is a more likely scene of what might happen. Keep in mind that a lot of locals with guns are exmilitary, so are not untrained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:37 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

If you agree with the protesters in this case really does not matter. What matters is if they were unarmed then the powers to be would have Pepper sprayed/Tazed them. But the fact they were armed made the government stop and listen. Public opinion increased. The protesters were heard, not suppressed. What would have been the end result if the troops were called in to do a full scale military assault? The guns were what made a difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:53 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by jimmm
If you agree with the protesters in this case really does not matter. What matters is if they were unarmed then the powers to be would have Pepper sprayed/Tazed them. But the fact they were armed made the government stop and listen. Public opinion increased. The protesters were heard, not suppressed. What would have been the end result if the troops were called in to do a full scale military assault? The guns were what made a difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

So the media was all over this. But did you hear about the outcome? Not a peep in the MSM. FYI, the case was thrown out of court because the Federal Government was found to have withheld potentially exculpatory evidence.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:10 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by justjoe
So the media was all over this. But did you hear about the outcome? Not a peep in the MSM. FYI, the case was thrown out of court because the Federal Government was found to have withheld potentially exculpatory evidence.
I bet the end would have been a lot different if the protesters were not armed. And no media attention.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:45 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

I agree with most of this. But I do feel license plate recognition is used to track and record where people are. Much like various video cameras. The new Ecall (auto safety call to LEO in case of a collision) in European cars and ours (on star) track and record vehicle location. California has plate tracking on many main freeways. We are monitored continually. The Seattle area ferries have cameras on the boats and docks. All faces are scanned and sent to a facility in Washington DC. Maritime monitoring. The US Post Office records you when you mail something at the desk. Your photo is tied to the package addresses. This post is scanned for key words by NSA. It is just not as simple as it seems. My firearms are for local protection from (or for) my neighbors in time of strife. I have my aluminum foil cap ready at all times.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:55 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by Rider19
A small, well armed force, executed properly, could take over England in a matter of days and the local population couldn't do a thing about. .

You’re forgetting one thing, my colonial friend. - we still have the Spitfire
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Yeah, that wouldn't stand in the US. While jurisdictions do run plate camera's, they are only looking for stolen cars unless there is a warrant out for the arrest of the owner/occupants. Usually this means due process where the police go in front of a judge to get warrants (arrest or search). Anything else would be a violation of our rights and could be thrown out of a court of law. Oh, and just because they get a hit on the plate for an arrest warrant doesn't mean they can just pull the car over. There must be some form of positive ID on the occupants.

Imagine finding a criminal, violating his rights and having that criminal walk out of court. It happens here at times. The police have a fine line to walk, and most Americans are good with this (I am!).


As much as I'd think that was true in our wonderful USA, this certainly isn't true, by a long shot.
Shown below is one (of thousands) example of a PD with license plate scanning technology that happens every minute of every day.
Every state has this and every state uses it without your consent.

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Old 04-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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They fought the crusades on foreign soil to not have to fight on their own. .

Can’t argue with that - we used the same tactic in the American War Of Independence.
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:19 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by JonK100RS
As much as I'd think that was true in our wonderful USA, this certainly isn't true, by a long shot.
Shown below is one (of thousands) example of a PD with license plate scanning technology that happens every minute of every day.
Every state has this and every state uses it without your consent.


I think I didn't explain myself well. Yes, they run these systems. But this cannot be the basis of a stop and search unless the vehicle comes back stolen or otherwise has some sort of warrant associated with it. While in England, they use this technology to pin all sorts of intelligence on the license and they can then pull over the vehicle for a stop and search.

For example: A drug dealer has a known girlfriend. The girlfriend has car registered in her name. The cops can pull of the car of the girlfriend and search the vehicle regardless of any infraction. This cannot happen here and is in direct violation of our Constitution. I hope that clears it up a bit.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:22 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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If you think you and a couple of like minded friends armed, can stand up to a platoon of USA army troops for any amount of time over 3 minutes your nuts. This thing about standing up to the government if needed is dopey, for whatever reason. Times gone by.

And I'm a weapons owner.

It won't be a couple of like minded friends against a platoon. I suspect it would be a much more lopsided # in favor of the general populace. The total combined military personnel are about 450,000 give or take. ( which most will not turn on its own citizens) Ad to that the appr. 750,000 law enforcement personnel you have maybe 1.25 million people ( give or take) it's estimated there are 100,000,000 gun owners in possession of appr. 300,000,000 guns and an estimated 10 + billion rds of ammo. If only 10% decided not to comply...........well, you do the math! Bottom line is a forced confiscation not going to happen. Bundy proved beyond doubt if the people will stick together the govt is in the end powerless. I for one suspect that is one of the primary reasons for disarming the people.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:44 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by justjoe
Yeah, that wouldn't stand in the US. While jurisdictions do run plate camera's, they are only looking for stolen cars

You're joking, right? Every plate scanned is uploaded to a national database and can be used for realtime tracking of anyone without probable cause. There isn't any expectation of privacy for your publicly displayed plate on a public street.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:59 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I think I didn't explain myself well. Yes, they run these systems. But this cannot be the basis of a stop and search unless the vehicle comes back stolen or otherwise has some sort of warrant associated with it. While in England, they use this technology to pin all sorts of intelligence on the license and they can then pull over the vehicle for a stop and search.

For example: A drug dealer has a known girlfriend. The girlfriend has car registered in her name. The cops can pull of the car of the girlfriend and search the vehicle regardless of any infraction. This cannot happen here and is in direct violation of our Constitution. I hope that clears it up a bit.

Here's the UK Law: https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-...ch-your-rights

Not quite as broad brush as you describe it but in practice you're probably on the money.

Under the UK drink drive laws the Police could request the driver of a car to take a breath test only if one of the following situations applied:-

- the police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person has committed or is currently committing a moving traffic offence; or
- the police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of the vehicle has consumed alcohol; or
- the police officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of a motor vehicle was involved in an accident.

So if you were driving home and the Police hadn't seen you leaving a pub so the second situation didn't apply, then unless you were weaving all over the road or went through a read light so the first situation didn't apply, they couldn't stop you just on the off chance that you had been drinking.

However, this requirement was routinely ignored from Day 1. The Police would set up a road block and tell you that they were carrying out a stolen car check. If they then could smell alcohol on your breath the second situation would apply so they could breath test you.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:41 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

..only thing worse on the road than a drunk....is a phukwit with a phone on his ear.

Back to shootin & stabin.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:38 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

In Queensland they’re called Random Breath Tests ‘cos you can pull anyone over at anytime for that purpose
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:30 AM
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Question Australia's gun ownership levels return

Australia's gun ownership levels return...

This is a 2015 article.

Don't know how factual it is.

Quote:
“Over the last 10 years, the importation of fire arms has built up again, and now I know from customs figures that we have already replaced a million guns in Australia."

Professor Alpers said that nearly 90 per cent of Australia's gun deaths had nothing to do with mass shootings, but rather involved domestic homicides and suicides.

An Australian Institute of Criminology homicide study shows gun murders have steadily declined from the late 1980s and are now far outnumbered by murders with knives.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australi...-levels-return
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:12 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I think I didn't explain myself well. Yes, they run these systems. But this cannot be the basis of a stop and search unless the vehicle comes back stolen or otherwise has some sort of warrant associated with it. While in England, they use this technology to pin all sorts of intelligence on the license and they can then pull over the vehicle for a stop and search.

For example: A drug dealer has a known girlfriend. The girlfriend has car registered in her name. The cops can pull of the car of the girlfriend and search the vehicle regardless of any infraction. This cannot happen here and is in direct violation of our Constitution. I hope that clears it up a bit.

In theory you are spot on.....However, if your plate gets run and the name associated with the plate comes back as a questionable personality, the boys will find a reason to stop you. Looks like you didn't come to a complete stop at that stop sign sir, could you please step out of the car.
Yes, our laws are the best in the world and our DOJ is clean but there are ways around every written law and LEO's who have been doing the job a day or 2 know how to work it.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:14 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
In Queensland they’re called Random Breath Tests ‘cos you can pull anyone over at anytime for that purpose

same here in NSW, and we have TV ads by the police that tell you, every patrol car is an RBT, (random breath test).
You got to be a real deadshit to get in a car or ride if your over the limit.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:21 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK100RS
Yes, our laws are the best in the world

what a stupid fckn comment.
Best for who? The family that got killed by the drunk driver.....
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:25 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by KiwiMat
what a stupid fckn comment.
Best for who? The family that got killed by the drunk driver.....

How the fuck do our laws keep someone from killing someone while breaking the law? Talk about a stupid fucking comment.
Criminals don't follow laws, what extra law would keep that from happening?
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:31 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK100RS
How the fuck do our laws keep someone from killing someone while breaking the law? Talk about a stupid fucking comment.
Criminals don't follow laws, what extra law would keep that from happening?

calm the fck down mate. Im just calling you on your comment that your laws are the best in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK100RS
Yes, our laws are the best in the world

I have been told many times to keep my opinions about America to myself and here we are, a thread about London, and all the yanks chiming in with there opinion and dick measuring.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:33 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK100RS
How the fuck do our laws keep someone from killing someone while breaking the law? Talk about a stupid fucking comment.
Criminals don't follow laws, what extra law would keep that from happening?

Perhaps we should have a poll on who has the best laws

Best criminal law, best tax law, best family law - where do you draw the line.

I find it hard to believe that the litigious nature of America is an indication it has the best laws.

You're entitled to your opinion but it's one which is incapable of being substantiated anymore than if I claimed that UK laws were the best in the world or KiwiMat claimed Aussie laws were the best in the world.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:38 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by KiwiMat
calm the fck down mate. Im just calling you on your comment that your laws are the best in the world.



I have been told many times to keep my opinions about America to myself and here we are, a thread about London, and all the yanks chiming in with there opinion and dick measuring.

And I'm calling you out for a classic liberal thinking comment. Laws don't keep criminals from committing crime, that's why they are criminals.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:44 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonK100RS
And I'm calling you out for a classic liberal thinking comment. Laws don't keep criminals from committing crime, that's why they are criminals.

thats cool, im calling you out as the classic arrogant American.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:49 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

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Originally Posted by KiwiMat
thats cool, im calling you out as the classic arrogant American.

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Old 04-05-2018, 08:14 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Back (sort of...) to the subject - I just this morning read a news story about a 78 yr-old pensioner who was awakened by the sound of someone inside his home. One of the two intruders was armed with a screwdriver, and the old guy confronted him and managed to turn the tables and killed him - the second intruder ran away...

The pensioner (the VICTIM) is being charged with murder...

I've heard of this before in the U.K., and I've asked several times in threads like this about what Australian law says about a situation like the one above, but don't recall it being answered.

Do you have the ability to defend yourself, your family, and your home with the force necessary to stop the threat - without becoming the criminal?

I strongly believe in my inalienable right to defend my home...simple as that...
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:15 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
Here's the UK Law: https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-...ch-your-rights

Not quite as broad brush as you describe it but in practice you're probably on the money.

Under the UK drink drive laws the Police could request the driver of a car to take a breath test only if one of the following situations applied:-

- the police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person has committed or is currently committing a moving traffic offence; or
- the police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of the vehicle has consumed alcohol; or
- the police officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of a motor vehicle was involved in an accident.

So if you were driving home and the Police hadn't seen you leaving a pub so the second situation didn't apply, then unless you were weaving all over the road or went through a read light so the first situation didn't apply, they couldn't stop you just on the off chance that you had been drinking.

However, this requirement was routinely ignored from Day 1. The Police would set up a road block and tell you that they were carrying out a stolen car check. If they then could smell alcohol on your breath the second situation would apply so they could breath test you.

Good morning (afternoon) to you Philip!

No, I'm not completely up on the laws in other countries. I was basing my statements on a documentary I was watching concerning the use of surveillance in the UK. Part of that was traffic enforcement. They talked about the level of intelligence (data on citizens) that was in use and they blatantly pointed out a drug dealers girlfriend as she passed by. They stopped the car, had the girlfriend get out and then searched the vehicle. That would have been a completely illegal stop here in the US and any evidence would have been thrown out of court (with a competent attorney of course).

It was very Orwellian.
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:19 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
I have been told many times to keep my opinions about America to myself and here we are, a thread about London, and all the yanks chiming in with there opinion and dick measuring.

Agreed! We, as an international community, should be talking about making our countries better. The crime statistics in London give me cause for concern, not as a citizen of the UK, but as an international traveler and someone who has compassion for my fellow man.

London has gotten to this point with the consent of it's citizens. It will get out of this situation only from the actions of it's citizens. All else is bullshit.
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:23 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
I believe in the right to defend my home...simple as that...

This is truly the basis of the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. It is a list of our inalienable rights, those rights we are born with, to protect ourselves and to be free from government instrusion.

When this basis is not adopted universally (meaning every man, woman and child), it kind of blows my mind. This is also part of the misunderstanding we commonly have around here in my opinion.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:29 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
I have been told many times to keep my opinions about America to myself and here we are, a thread about London, and all the yanks chiming in with there opinion and dick measuring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Agreed! We, as an international community, should be talking about making our countries better. The crime statistics in London give me cause for concern, not as a citizen of the UK, but as an international traveler and someone who has compassion for my fellow man.

London has gotten to this point with the consent of it's citizens. It will get out of this situation only from the actions of it's citizens. All else is bullshit.

ok.. good response and a compassionate view, but might have missed my point in my quote.
Next time somebody from outside the USA has an opinion in a thread about your country, and one of your countrymen tells them to STFU, and that they have NO PLACE having an opinion on the goings on in the USA....and we should drop to our knees and be thankfull for USA keeping us safe, i need you to tell them thats not OK..... and give an intelligent compassionate response with a twist of unbiased dark humour that we love so much!
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:41 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Man should say what ever they want... Knowin where a man stands is important....very important...
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:08 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

All I gotta say is if you're going to be measuring dicks, you'd better measure when it's not so cold out.
And yup, I'm an asshole American thru and thru. Now GFY
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:41 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
Back (sort of...) to the subject - I just this morning read a news story about a 78 yr-old pensioner who was awakened by the sound of someone inside his home. One of the two intruders was armed with a screwdriver, and the old guy confronted him and managed to turn the tables and killed him - the second intruder ran away...

The pensioner (the VICTIM) is being charged with murder...

I've heard of this before in the U.K., and I've asked several times in threads like this about what Australian law says about a situation like the one above, but don't recall it being answered.

Do you have the ability to defend yourself, your family, and your home with the force necessary to stop the threat - without becoming the criminal?

I strongly believe in my inalienable right to defend my home...simple as that...

Here's a link to the story: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/591875...abbing-bailed/

He hasn't been charged with murder but he has been arrested on suspicion of murder. You'll see that he's been bailed. My guess is that he'll never be charged.

As for having the ability to defend yourself I posted this on the gun control thread a few weeks ago:

"Re: gun control- when DO WE SAY ENOUGH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
What do your laws allow with regards to defending your home in, say, a forced entry by an intruder? If you legally own a firearm, and in the process of this forced entry you use lethal force to stop the intrusion - What happens to you in this scenario?

Are you allowed to defend your family and your "castle domain?" Are you likely to be treated like the criminal?

In the UK you would have to rely on the "self defence" defence which was altered in 2013 to bring it into line with the Florida stand your ground defence. However, the view is that the amendment arguably created more uncertainty. The previous position was that the defence was both subjective and objective.

The subjective element would be what as the householder I honestly believed the threat to me/my family was - not what some third party with the benefit of hindsight believed the threat to be. The objective element is whether objectively I used reasonable force to defend myself/my family.

There was a case back in 2002 involving Tony Martin, a farmer who lived alone in a remote area. His farmhouse was broken into by two pikeys - gyppo louts - and he shot and killed one of them using his shotgun. His problem was that he shot the gyppo in the back as the gyppo was attempting to escape. He was convicted of manslaughter."
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Good morning (afternoon) to you Philip!

No, I'm not completely up on the laws in other countries. I was basing my statements on a documentary I was watching concerning the use of surveillance in the UK. Part of that was traffic enforcement. They talked about the level of intelligence (data on citizens) that was in use and they blatantly pointed out a drug dealers girlfriend as she passed by. They stopped the car, had the girlfriend get out and then searched the vehicle. That would have been a completely illegal stop here in the US and any evidence would have been thrown out of court (with a competent attorney of course).

It was very Orwellian.

Joe

You're right. if you are a criminal and want to move around by car in the UK then stay off the motorway network and probably a lot of the main non-motorway network as well.

Philip
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:03 AM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

I wonder how many folks have been caught due to OnStar from GM? It blew my mind the first time they sent me a monthly report with the data they allow you to see they have recorded. Nice little mic in every car and truck and GPS.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:02 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
ok.. good response and a compassionate view, but might have missed my point in my quote.
Next time somebody from outside the USA has an opinion in a thread about your country, and one of your countrymen tells them to STFU, and that they have NO PLACE having an opinion on the goings on in the USA....and we should drop to our knees and be thankfull for USA keeping us safe, i need you to tell them thats not OK..... and give an intelligent compassionate response with a twist of unbiased dark humour that we love so much!

Yeah, I can't herd the cats on this one. When somebody decides to take pot shots at the US in general, that is basically talking about me so I do respond. I try my best to post a rational argument, but I have been known to tell folks to mind their own business. Especially trolls.

And I also agree that if you are up in arms about for-in-ers posting smack about your country you shouldn't take pot shots at that country.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:03 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
Joe

You're right. if you are a criminal and want to move around by car in the UK then stay off the motorway network and probably a lot of the main non-motorway network as well.

Philip

I wonder how effective it is for you in the UK? Are there any statistics that show the reduction in crime due to this as opposed to how many times someone is stopped and searched just to be let go?
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:52 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I wonder how effective it is for you in the UK? Are there any statistics that show the reduction in crime due to this as opposed to how many times someone is stopped and searched just to be let go?

Joe
I've no idea. Clearly the Police in the UK think its a good idea. And as you, I'm sure, know you can find a statistic somewhere to support any proposition you want. Here in Andorra there is so little crime it's not something I or anyone else I know worries about .
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:59 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
Back (sort of...) to the subject - I just this morning read a news story about a 78 yr-old pensioner who was awakened by the sound of someone inside his home. One of the two intruders was armed with a screwdriver, and the old guy confronted him and managed to turn the tables and killed him - the second intruder ran away...

The pensioner (the VICTIM) is being charged with murder...

I've heard of this before in the U.K., and I've asked several times in threads like this about what Australian law says about a situation like the one above, but don't recall it being answered.

Do you have the ability to defend yourself, your family, and your home with the force necessary to stop the threat - without becoming the criminal?

I strongly believe in my inalienable right to defend my home...simple as that...

Ken

Here's an update on the story: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...vious-robbery/

His relatives are predictably saying "he shouldn't have died ......blah blah blah", well in that case he could have avoided death by not attempting to burglarise the old boy's house.

From my perspective zero sympathy.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:19 PM
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Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
Joe
I've no idea. Clearly the Police in the UK think its a good idea. And as you, I'm sure, know you can find a statistic somewhere to support any proposition you want. Here in Andorra there is so little crime it's not something I or anyone else I know worries about .

As it should be! What causes crime and how do you fix it? if you figure that out I'll split the proceeds on selling the idea with you!
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