I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > Relax Zone > Chit-Chat
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

Chit-Chat A GENERAL, BMW bike (or other) forum for off topic discussions that may not fit elsewhere

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:33 PM
edl's Avatar
edl edl is online now
Greaser
Post: 3,130 Thanks: 1,326
Thanked 595 Times in 407 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Danville, Kentucky
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
I wonder how many folks have been caught due to OnStar from GM? It blew my mind the first time they sent me a monthly report with the data they allow you to see they have recorded. Nice little mic in every car and truck and GPS.
I donít use any that commie spy crap....except my dumb phone....sometimes my smart tv...and my washer and dryer....oh...yeah my computer...
__________________
I Can't Drink Canadian Whiskey
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'edl' for this post:
  #62  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:04 PM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is offline
Moderator
Post: 2,130 Thanks: 902
Thanked 1,396 Times in 784 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
Back (sort of...) to the subject - I just this morning read a news story about a 78 yr-old pensioner who was awakened by the sound of someone inside his home. One of the two intruders was armed with a screwdriver, and the old guy confronted him and managed to turn the tables and killed him - the second intruder ran away...

The pensioner (the VICTIM) is being charged with murder...

I've heard of this before in the U.K., and I've asked several times in threads like this about what Australian law says about a situation like the one above, but don't recall it being answered.

Do you have the ability to defend yourself, your family, and your home with the force necessary to stop the threat - without becoming the criminal?

I strongly believe in my inalienable right to defend my home...simple as that...

Hey Ken. Yes we can use lethal force to defend ourselves in any situation so long as we can reasonably show that we were defending ourselves from the same. If we find an intruder climbing through a window and take to them with a baseball bat we’re in trouble. If he comes at us with a knife etc we’re ok. Proportionate force is the key. The person would probably still have the matter determined by a court as a matter of process.
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Capt Howdy' for this post:
  #63  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:19 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 278 Thanks: 22
Thanked 44 Times in 34 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moncton, NB Canada
Re: The success of gun control in England

You can only repel an attack here with sufficient force to repel the attack. So if your pumped up and have a fear response and over react you will be charged. Finding a jury of peers to convict is another matter though.
__________________
2009 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:39 PM
kenthegrass's Avatar
kenthegrass kenthegrass is offline
The Cleaner - I solve problems
Post: 2,094 Thanks: 1,278
Thanked 534 Times in 334 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baneberry, TN USA
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
Here's a link to the story: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/591875...abbing-bailed/

He hasn't been charged with murder but he has been arrested on suspicion of murder. You'll see that he's been bailed. My guess is that he'll never be charged.

As for having the ability to defend yourself I posted this on the gun control thread a few weeks ago:

"Re: gun control- when DO WE SAY ENOUGH
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
What do your laws allow with regards to defending your home in, say, a forced entry by an intruder? If you legally own a firearm, and in the process of this forced entry you use lethal force to stop the intrusion - What happens to you in this scenario?

Are you allowed to defend your family and your "castle domain?" Are you likely to be treated like the criminal?

In the UK you would have to rely on the "self defence" defence which was altered in 2013 to bring it into line with the Florida stand your ground defence. However, the view is that the amendment arguably created more uncertainty. The previous position was that the defence was both subjective and objective.

The subjective element would be what as the householder I honestly believed the threat to me/my family was - not what some third party with the benefit of hindsight believed the threat to be. The objective element is whether objectively I used reasonable force to defend myself/my family.

There was a case back in 2002 involving Tony Martin, a farmer who lived alone in a remote area. His farmhouse was broken into by two pikeys - gyppo louts - and he shot and killed one of them using his shotgun. His problem was that he shot the gyppo in the back as the gyppo was attempting to escape. He was convicted of manslaughter."

Thx, Phillip, I got that - I'm asking about Australia - and my post specified... sorry for the confusion...
__________________
A product of "onfortunate upbringing..."


'05 K12 S - KIA 6/21/11
'04 Ducati 999 - traded
'07 R1200 GS - sold
'99 R1100 S - traded
'05 K12 S - traded
'11 K13 S Magma Red - traded
'16 R1200 GSW Triple Black - traded
'16 K13 S MotorSport
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:45 PM
kenthegrass's Avatar
kenthegrass kenthegrass is offline
The Cleaner - I solve problems
Post: 2,094 Thanks: 1,278
Thanked 534 Times in 334 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baneberry, TN USA
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
Hey Ken. Yes we can use lethal force to defend ourselves in any situation so long as we can reasonably show that we were defending ourselves from the same. If we find an intruder climbing through a window and take to them with a baseball bat weíre in trouble. If he comes at us with a knife etc weíre ok. Proportionate force is the key. The person would probably still have the matter determined by a court as a matter of process.

Thanks for the reply, Captain. So, if you have a firearm, the better way to stay out of trouble is if the bad guy is packing as well; if he comes in like Barry Bonds (or, Brian Lara), you're swingin' it...

So how many break-ins involve firearms? Minority?
__________________
A product of "onfortunate upbringing..."


'05 K12 S - KIA 6/21/11
'04 Ducati 999 - traded
'07 R1200 GS - sold
'99 R1100 S - traded
'05 K12 S - traded
'11 K13 S Magma Red - traded
'16 R1200 GSW Triple Black - traded
'16 K13 S MotorSport
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 04-06-2018, 02:41 AM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is offline
Moderator
Post: 2,130 Thanks: 902
Thanked 1,396 Times in 784 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenthegrass
Thanks for the reply, Captain. So, if you have a firearm, the better way to stay out of trouble is if the bad guy is packing as well; if he comes in like Barry Bonds (or, Brian Lara), you're swingin' it...

So how many break-ins involve firearms? Minority?

Exactly...unless you can spin a good yarn

Most breaks are weapon free but there seems to be a spate of home invasions where thugs forcibly enter a house whether occupants are there or not. Weapons of choice are machetes, hammers knives screw drivers (the tool not the drink) and clubs of various types. Occasionally a firearm is produced.
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:17 AM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is offline
Moderator
Post: 2,130 Thanks: 902
Thanked 1,396 Times in 784 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I wonder how effective it is for you in the UK? Are there any statistics that show the reduction in crime due to this as opposed to how many times someone is stopped and searched just to be let go?

Hey Joe. Itís got nothing to do with safety. Itís all about revenue 😬
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-06-2018, 08:46 AM
justjoe's Avatar
justjoe justjoe is online now
Wookin' pa nub
Post: 11,254 Thanks: 3,936
Thanked 4,163 Times in 2,084 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Farragut, TN US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
Hey Joe. Itís got nothing to do with safety. Itís all about revenue 😬

I've actually used this line before during a traffic stop. My buddy Jerry got hit with radar and my detector alerted me. Jerry was in front and I couldn't signal him.

Well, at the stop we both pulled over. It was a sergeant and a trainee. The sergeant came over to my bike when the trainee was running Jerry's license, points at my detector and says, "what's that for?" I ask if he wants a serious answer or a funny answer. He gets an I just ate a turd sandwich look on his face and says "whatever you think is the best". I say, "Well, your job is to hide in the bushes and collect revenue from speeders, it's job is to keep me from paying revenue to your office." He says, "well, we just pulled you over for speeding." I corrected him, "no, you pulled him over for speeding" pointing at Jerry, "you didn't catch me!" At about this time Jerry jumps in with "shut the fuck up Joe!!!"
__________________
Joe

Keyboard Hero! Let the games BEGIN!!!

A product of "unfortunate upbringing..."


Find the official "non-official" 2018 Non-Invitational DGR Rally in Maggie Valley here!

Life is good!
Reply With Quote
The following (4) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'justjoe' for this post:
  #69  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:05 PM
Welshman's Avatar
Welshman Welshman is offline
(Moderator) Tries to be slick but fails
Post: 2,463 Thanks: 4
Thanked 1,195 Times in 541 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: L'Aldosa, La Massana, Andorra
Re: The success of gun control in England

Well the 78 year old pensioner has been told he won't face any charges:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-face-charges/
__________________
BMW HP2 Sport
BMW K1300S MS
BMW R90S
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Welshman' for this post:
  #70  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:18 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 278 Thanks: 22
Thanked 44 Times in 34 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moncton, NB Canada
Re: The success of gun control in England

Now the thug's family can seek retribution. They look a poor unfortunate lot.
__________________
2009 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:42 PM
Welshman's Avatar
Welshman Welshman is offline
(Moderator) Tries to be slick but fails
Post: 2,463 Thanks: 4
Thanked 1,195 Times in 541 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: L'Aldosa, La Massana, Andorra
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
Now the thug's family can seek retribution. They look a poor unfortunate lot.

One of his other victims had this to say:

"Another pensioner targeted in a distraction break-in linked to Vincent said it was a "jolly good job" Vincent had been thwarted in his final break-in.

Cyril Goodearl, 78, who was robbed at his home in the pretty village of Farningham, Kent, last November said he would like to shake the hand of Mr Osborn-Brooks.

Asked how he felt about what happened to Vincent, Mr Goodearl said: "Jolly good job! That's got rid of another bit of scum. I am all in favour of capital punishment. They should never have let him out of prison.

"It's good riddance and he got what he deserved."
__________________
BMW HP2 Sport
BMW K1300S MS
BMW R90S
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'Welshman' for this post:
  #72  
Old 04-06-2018, 03:52 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 278 Thanks: 22
Thanked 44 Times in 34 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moncton, NB Canada
Re: The success of gun control in England

Well yah cant spin something like this. Anyone who dares to attack an elderly person deserves whatever pain they get. Home invasions used to be frequent hereabouts during the initial surge in drs handing out opiods like candy.
__________________
2009 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 04-06-2018, 07:23 PM
Aviator's Avatar
Aviator Aviator is online now
Certified Hooligan
Post: 1,177 Thanks: 358
Thanked 231 Times in 144 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chattanooga, TN USA
Re: The success of gun control in England

In the case of the old guy shooting an intruder at night in the dark....
Thank God TN is a Castle Doctrine state.
Now, I have opened another can of worms.
__________________
2007 K1200S
2014 R1200 GSA/W
2015 Husqvarna FE501S
2011 DR650
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 04-07-2018, 07:33 PM
travlr_45's Avatar
travlr_45 travlr_45 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 311 Thanks: 183
Thanked 165 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Savannah, GA US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Georgia is a castle doctrine state as well. Ga law also allows permitted owners to defend others as well in a life or health threatening situation!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-07-2018, 08:16 PM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is offline
Moderator
Post: 2,130 Thanks: 902
Thanked 1,396 Times in 784 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlr_45
Georgia is a castle doctrine state as well. Ga law also allows permitted owners to defend others as well in a life or health threatening situation!

As does Australian law up to the extent of death or grievous bodily harm as if it was you personally being attacked.
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 04-10-2018, 06:03 PM
travlr_45's Avatar
travlr_45 travlr_45 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 311 Thanks: 183
Thanked 165 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Savannah, GA US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Would be interesting to know the percentage of conservative gun owners verses liberal owners!
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 04-10-2018, 06:50 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 278 Thanks: 22
Thanked 44 Times in 34 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Moncton, NB Canada
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlr_45
Would be interesting to know the percentage of conservative gun owners verses liberal owners!
__________________
2009 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 04-10-2018, 08:24 PM
justjoe's Avatar
justjoe justjoe is online now
Wookin' pa nub
Post: 11,254 Thanks: 3,936
Thanked 4,163 Times in 2,084 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Farragut, TN US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Friends of the burglar who was killed set up a shrine in front of the pensioners house.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ooks-home.html
__________________
Joe

Keyboard Hero! Let the games BEGIN!!!

A product of "unfortunate upbringing..."


Find the official "non-official" 2018 Non-Invitational DGR Rally in Maggie Valley here!

Life is good!
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:18 PM
Welshman's Avatar
Welshman Welshman is offline
(Moderator) Tries to be slick but fails
Post: 2,463 Thanks: 4
Thanked 1,195 Times in 541 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: L'Aldosa, La Massana, Andorra
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Friends of the burglar who was killed set up a shrine in front of the pensioners house.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ooks-home.html

They are a bunch of pikey scumbags. You will have noticed that the OAP and his wife have been moved to somewhere safe. There is a concern that these pikeys or gyppos operate on an eye for an eye basis and the OAP may never be safe, which gives you an idea about the complete lack of any moral compass they have. They think it's OK for one of their number to attempt to terrorise an old man and his wife in their own home and steal their possessions, and if they die in the attempt, seek retribution for their criminal acts. Scumbags is too good a word for them.
__________________
BMW HP2 Sport
BMW K1300S MS
BMW R90S
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:01 PM
justjoe's Avatar
justjoe justjoe is online now
Wookin' pa nub
Post: 11,254 Thanks: 3,936
Thanked 4,163 Times in 2,084 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Farragut, TN US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
They are a bunch of pikey scumbags. You will have noticed that the OAP and his wife have been moved to somewhere safe. There is a concern that these pikeys or gyppos operate on an eye for an eye basis and the OAP may never be safe, which gives you an idea about the complete lack of any moral compass they have. They think it's OK for one of their number to attempt to terrorise an old man and his wife in their own home and steal their possessions, and if they die in the attempt, seek retribution for their criminal acts. Scumbags is too good a word for them.

At least his neighbors took a stand. I really feel for the oap, being chased out of his own home. Scumbags indeed.
__________________
Joe

Keyboard Hero! Let the games BEGIN!!!

A product of "unfortunate upbringing..."


Find the official "non-official" 2018 Non-Invitational DGR Rally in Maggie Valley here!

Life is good!
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:23 PM
Welshman's Avatar
Welshman Welshman is offline
(Moderator) Tries to be slick but fails
Post: 2,463 Thanks: 4
Thanked 1,195 Times in 541 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: L'Aldosa, La Massana, Andorra
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
At least his neighbors took a stand. I really feel for the oap, being chased out of his own home. Scumbags indeed.

I have no problem with his family and relatives mourning his death but to do so in the place where he attempted to terrorise an old man and his wife is adding insult to injury.

As I said these scum have no moral compass.
__________________
BMW HP2 Sport
BMW K1300S MS
BMW R90S
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Welshman' for this post:
  #82  
Old 04-11-2018, 06:37 PM
travlr_45's Avatar
travlr_45 travlr_45 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 311 Thanks: 183
Thanked 165 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Savannah, GA US
Re: The success of gun control in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
They are a bunch of pikey scumbags. You will have noticed that the OAP and his wife have been moved to somewhere safe. There is a concern that these pikeys or gyppos operate on an eye for an eye basis and the OAP may never be safe, which gives you an idea about the complete lack of any moral compass they have. They think it's OK for one of their number to attempt to terrorise an old man and his wife in their own home and steal their possessions, and if they die in the attempt, seek retribution for their criminal acts. Scumbags is too good a word for them.

A very good example for not only protecting our 2nd amendment but standing in support of the castle doctrine rule. The term " family funeral" may very well have had a completely different meaning in that circumstance!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Servo brake flush eric2 "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 11 08-10-2017 08:12 AM
A Texan's take on the UK riots... Kneedragger Chit-Chat 52 08-18-2011 08:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 PM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 1.66790 seconds with 15 queries