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  #121  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:57 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
I swapped out the washer , I was able to not have to remove the clutch it was rather easy once it was described on what would happen when the idler pin was removed.
I took a long pick and ran it into the clutch gear then onto the underside of the starter gear and also used a magnet to hold the gear.
I then took a piece of thick wire and put it into the shaft and then slid the shaft out,
Meanwhile holding the washer with a second stronger magnet.
Once the washer was out of the position i used the other magnet to turn it in the case thus it was able to slide out.
I then took my new washer and put some thick sticky grease on it and with the magnet i was able to move it into position and then use a bent pick to push it into final position then slide the shaft into position.
I also adjusted the oil pump chain it was very loose it was easy to push it into the metal portion of the case,
now it has about 8mm of movement and can just be pushed into the front side of the tensioner plastic.
A quick start and it it sounds quieter ,
so a road test to follow.
This operation took about 40 mins to complete

Mrmerlin,
Very clever! I didn't think it could be done without removing the clutch.
Removing the clutch took a lot of effort when I replaced the washer. Took two of us to loosen the central clutch nut.
It goes to show that with some ingenuity one can avoid trouble. Wished you had posted your method a few months earlier!
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  #122  
Old 05-31-2012, 06:55 PM
elp_jc elp_jc is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by henkpenk
It goes to show that with some ingenuity one can avoid trouble. Wished you had posted your method a few months earlier!
Me too. I didn't want to mess with the clutch. Plus since I always wear ear plugs, the vibration only annoys me because I can feel it, but not enough to have done a clutch removal, plus all the tools needed for the job.

Hey Mrmerlin, are you a surgeon by any change??? I doubt most of us can do that precise job, but will be watcing the forum for evidence . I also wanted to check the oil pump chain, but didn't think it could be done without the clutch removed either. In fact, didn't even attempt to check it. But with only 5K miles, it should still be fine.

Just to clarify, there're no alternator parts that are contributing to the noise/grind, correct? And nothing will happen to the bike if it's left alone, correct? Just checking .

Finally, what's the deal with the chain tensioner some are mentioning? I thought as long as we have the one with the oil reservoir on top, we were fine. My 02/09 built bike has it. Is there a newer, better version? Just curious. Thanks gang.
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  #123  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:25 PM
K1300S_Flash K1300S_Flash is offline
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Question Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Okay this is my first post so be gentle

I have a K1300s 2010 model.

I believe is making the noises that you all are discussing. To be sure though I have managed to get a recording of the sound.

The sound is taken around 30mph between 2750-3500rpm - It sounds very like running a wet finger around a crystal wineglass full of water.

[STRIKE] Okay so the drop down for attachments wont let me add anything - advice please... [/STRIKE]

Now Attached


Cheers,
Attached Files
File Type: zip K1300s_Whine.zip (611.8 KB, 111 views)
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  #124  
Old 06-02-2012, 08:45 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

from the note you posted i would suggest to remove the side cover and inspect the oil pump chain also swap out the big washer
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  #125  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:34 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Ive just read this thread from page 1 -3 what a great read cant believe BMW wont address this problem, Tarmac your a" Legend" why someone in the dealer network cant take the bull by the horns like you have is just typical of whats wrong with the world today no one seems to give a shit anymore well done anyway you have given me some bargaining ammunition on my next purchase maybe next purchase
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  #126  
Old 06-13-2012, 09:16 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I really like this thread! High quality pictures and a deeply diving technical discussion.
Fortunately, my 2010 K1300s does not have this horrible rattling (or: not yet???). And why not?
But I feel between 3000 - 4000 rpm in decelerating vibrations and hear something like "grrrrrh", but with low frequency.
I hope, that this is not the beginning
BTW, I have about 10.000 km on it.

Matthias
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  #127  
Old 06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Matthias your noise is probably the washer thats been talked about here.

Also inspect the oil pump chain ,
and install a jump guard when you remove the clutch cover
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  #128  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:42 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lambretta
I really like this thread! High quality pictures and a deeply diving technical discussion.
Fortunately, my 2010 K1300s does not have this horrible rattling (or: not yet???). And why not?
But I feel between 3000 - 4000 rpm in decelerating vibrations and hear something like "grrrrrh", but with low frequency.
I hope, that this is not the beginning
BTW, I have about 10.000 km on it.

Matthias

Mine is also making this vibe on deceleration. I noticed it when i test rode the bike but thought it was the back pressure in the std exhaust that was causing it. For me it is by no means a problem, until it becomes a problem. I've been riding Guzzi's for 25 years so i'm used to rattly motors and vibes

I will mention it to my dealer and watch his body language closely for any negative reaction. I'll see if he wants to do the washer fix.
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  #129  
Old 07-04-2012, 03:41 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I've just had the washer replaced by a BMW trained mechanic who also adjusted the tension of the oilpump chain which was very loose. I made up several steel washers to try including one which was the same 40mm outside diameter as the original to retain the alignment of the gears but with a thickness 1.60mm and inside diameter 9.80mm. Once in position the whole assembly had very little movement with this large washer so we went with that. I'm pleased to report the rattle is now gone and, although there are still plenty of mechanical noises that particularly intrusive one is a thing of the past.
Thanks tarmac and other for the idea and suggestions.
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  #130  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:28 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hello!
I have quite the same rattle noise at my K 1300GT /2009.
But befor I do the job myself I will ask my BMW dealer if they have already an upgade solution for that problem.

Best regards Henry 1300GT
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  #131  
Old 08-06-2012, 09:54 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Excellent post Tarmac - I printed your findings and took this in to the dealer as well - we'll see how they address the issue that I'm also experiencing - they say there is no bulletin on this issue by BMW or on PUMA. Pierre
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  #132  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:39 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

make sure that the oil pump chain gets checked for looseness,
it seems that they are very loose and will touch the cases,
I have mine adjusted to about 8mm of play on the front run of the chain.

NOTE this could also be a noise maker as the chain touching the cases has to make some kind of noise
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  #133  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

My dealer has definitely noticed the issue on my bike - which I'm happy for. The mechanic could even hear it at idle too and related it more to the looseness of the cam chain up. We discussed the "washer"/spacer fix by Tarmac and he was receptive but also ambivalent because BMW has not produced any tech bulletin on the issue - he does have to have approval on any warranty work by BMW HQ. The cam chain looseness and known issue/bulletin on the cam chain tensioner was a way in although not directly applicable, and I think he will go the distance and change the washer since he will have everything opened up in that exact area. So far, I'm feeling appreciative for the dealer addressing the issue - my first experience with the service department for this dealer. I'm booked in for the work next week - 2 hour job so I can wait and ride home I'm told....I'm hoping that will be the case. I still find it disconcerting that BMW sells such a premium bike (at a premium price) that has this issue off the line - my bike has 7500 kilometres and I have to have the cam chain adjusted and convince them of another appropriate fix that yet another rider had to creatively develop in order to be addressed. I've owned the bike only 2 weeks, I noticed this problem immediately. How is that?

Will keep us posted.

Pierre
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  #134  
Old 08-17-2012, 10:09 PM
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Unhappy Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Don't feel alone, I have had my K1300s for a few weeks - and have the identical vibration issue from the start.
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  #135  
Old 08-18-2012, 06:41 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticlife
The cam chain looseness and known issue/bulletin on the cam chain tensioner was a way in although not directly applicable, and I think he will go the distance and change the washer since he will have everything opened up in that exact area. So far, I'm feeling appreciative for the dealer addressing the issue - my first experience with the service department for this dealer. I'm booked in for the work next week - 2 hour job so I can wait and ride home I'm told....I'm hoping that will be the case. I still find it disconcerting that BMW sells such a premium bike (at a premium price) that has this issue off the line - my bike has 7500 kilometres and I have to have the cam chain adjusted and convince them of another appropriate fix that yet another rider had to creatively develop in order to be addressed. I've owned the bike only 2 weeks, I noticed this problem immediately. How is that?

Will keep us posted.

Pierre

Hi Pierre, could it be that you mention cam chain adjustment but actually mean placing the cam chain jump guard? Other than timing there is nothing to adjust. (You're bike is a K1300 S, right?)
Then again, putting the jump guard in doesn't take two hours but half an hour at the most.
Puzzling!

Henk
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  #136  
Old 08-18-2012, 08:54 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Hank - yes, you're right it is the install/replacement of cam chain jump guard - his way of getting into the bike to get to the "washer" fix which he was considering to do upon my request. Pierre
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  #137  
Old 08-21-2012, 07:14 AM
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Talking Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
As I posted a few days ago, here is how I fixed the annoying rattle:


I bought my ’10 K1300S in May of this year. This is actually my second K13S. I had another ‘10 tri-color K13S which I regrettably sold last year. I really missed that bike so I bought another one just like it. I noticed the loud rattling noise/vibration in the 3.5K – 4.5K rpm right away. Though it had been awhile since I had last driven my previous K13S, I did not remember it making this noise. In fact I spoke to the new owner about it and he hadn’t noticed these rattling noises either.

The symptoms were a loud rattling noise and some abnormal vibration in the 3.5k – 4.5K rpm range, especially while decelerating in this range. It was always present regardless of engine temperature but it was a little less noisy when the engine was cold. It’s difficult to discern exactly where the noise is coming from but it sounds like it’s just underneath the air box around the alternator or starter. I also had random issues starting the bike when it was hot. The bike would start just fine cold and after a 30-minute ride and a brief stop it would barely turn over as if the battery was weak. I replaced the battery and this would still occasionally happen even with a full charge.

I took my bike in for service and discussed these issues with the technician. After a few days they called and said they couldn’t find anything wrong with it. They said the battery charge was a little low so they charged it. When I asked about the rattling sound they said they didn’t hear any abnormal noises. When I picked it up, I had them listen to the rattling noise and they were not impressed and said it was normal.

I usually always ride with earplugs and the noise is barely audible with ear plugs and a helmet. But I’m an engineer and just knowing the rattle was present really annoyed me. I knew the noise is not normal and that not all K13S have this rattling sound so I decided I would try to fix it myself.

Based on some of the previous information posted here and the symptoms my bike had I thought I would start with looking at the starter idler gear and alternator free wheel gear. So I ordered some parts and a few special tools and dove in.

I highly recommend getting the service manual DVD for reference and more detail on the following procedure.

Disassembly:
1. Remove the left/right fairing panels.
2. Remove the lower engine spoiler.
3. Remove the left/right fuel tank trim panels.
4. Remove the fuel tank.
5. Remove the starter.
6. Remove the clutch slave cylinder.
7. Remove the right engine housing cover.
8. Remove the crankshaft position sensor and install the crankshaft lock pin (BMW tool).
9. Remove the clutch plate cluster using the clutch cage driver lock (BMW tool).
10. To remove the clutch basket you need to unload the tensioning gear of the alternator free wheel. Turn the crank until you see a small hole in the alternator free wheel gear. Insert the locating pin (BMW tool) and turn it 90 degrees clockwise to unload the tensioning gear. The clutch basket can now be removed.

Now with the clutch basket out we can access the starter idler gear and the alternator free wheel mechanism. I rotated the alternator free wheel mechanism by hand and heard something rattle. The rattle was coming from a washer (spacer) that was next to the starter idler gear. The washer fit loosely on the shaft and had quite a bit of play. It also appeared to be somewhat oversized (outer diameter) because it overlaps the alternator free wheel gear teeth as well. Obviously the washer is there to keep the correct offset for the starter idler gear so it meshes with the alternator free wheel gear properly but I can't understand why they used a washer with such a large outer diameter. I was pretty sure this was the source of the rattle. So the next step was to replace this washer with a properly sized washer (spacer), one that fit the shaft without any play and the correct thickness to provide the correct offset for the idler gear.

Here is the challenging part. How to remove the shaft for the started idler gear? The only access to it is via a small port after you remove a plug. The shaft itself does not have threads and is pressed in... so it’s a tight fit. The service manual just says ‘use a suitable tool’. I struggled with this for a while and couldn’t get it out. I tried tapping the shaft so I could thread a bolt into it and use that to pull it out but the steel of the shaft was much harder than any of the taps I could find and I couldn’t cut a single thread into it. Very frustrating. After searching, I eventually had to order a special 'Snap On' internal shaft/bearing puller. It took 10 days to arrive. Once I had the puller I had the shaft out in 10 minutes. Having the correct tool for the job at hand always makes things easier. With the shaft out I could see just how poorly the washer fit on the shaft. It wobbled quite a bit and had lots of play. The idler gear itself fit perfectly on the shaft with no play whatsoever. I then found a replacement washer that fit perfectly on the shaft and was the correct thickness and had a smaller outer diameter so it would not rub against the alternator free wheel gear.

Before putting everything back together I installed the timing chain jump guard and adjusted the oil pump chain. Assembly is basically the reverse of the steps above. You need to unload the alternator free wheel gear again before installing the clutch basket.

Finally, no more rattling! Replacing the washer (spacer) definitely eliminated the 3.5K – 4.5K rattling noise on my K13S. Also, it seems to have solved my random ‘difficult to start/turn over when hot’ issue as well. The K13S engine is definitely not the smoothest engine out there, but at least it sounds normal now and it runs just like I remember my previous K13S did.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

-Tarmac









Thanks Tarmac.I have the same problem with my k1300s and the dealer doesnt give an rats ass.Can you please help,im looking for the sizes for the spaners to use,since my dealer doesnt want to help me with the tools.
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  #138  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:54 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Dirk C,

Check post #69 in this thread. I list the tools/sizes needed for the job.
Also, I just realized that the links for all my photos have expired. I can't edit my posts to re-insert them so I will make a new post with all the photos here later. Good Luck.

-Tarmac
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  #139  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:24 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Fellow Vibrating/Buzzing K1300S Friends,

Has anyone (besides tarmac) found any washers with the specied dimensions yet? I swear I've been to every hardware store and place you can by this stuff and can't find anything. The 3/8" is too big and the 7/16 too small . I even looked at the metric washers. I wouldn't mind sending money if anybody has found one yet and can get more.

Thanks,
Bill
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  #140  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:49 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I made mine from a hardware store washer it took some time with a file and sandpaper to get it to fit the rod
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  #141  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:36 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I'm in the same boat - dealer is working on it tomorrow and don't have a washer for them - let's see if they can find/make one in the shop..

Pierre
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  #142  
Old 08-29-2012, 05:09 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

make sure that the dealer readjusts the oil pump chain I will bet yours is loose
look for about 8mm play on the front run of chain,
it can be adjusted without removal of the clutch
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  #143  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:37 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjcbsr
Has anyone (besides tarmac) found any washers with the specied dimensions yet? I swear I've been to every hardware store and place you can by this stuff and can't find anything.
The washer is very easy to make if you have a lathe...a few minutes work really and you will get a much better washer than a cheap stamped one from the hardware store. If you can't find a friend or acquaintance with a lathe try a small local machine shop. Won't cost much to get one made.
When I did the mod I made a few of these washers so have two left over. They are 20mm outside diameter, 1.5mm thick with a 9.80mm bore (I ended up using one with a 40mm O.D.). I have no desire to get into washer production but the first two people who PM me can have the ones I've aleady made....
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  #144  
Old 08-29-2012, 10:57 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Got it done - replaced the washer and tightened up the oil pump chain. I got lucky and hit a good dealer and an excellent mechanic. I printed out Tarmac's instructions and also Mmerlin's posts too - created and edited a solid document with pictures to boot and it really helped. The mechanic came to get me to assist in the shop once the clutch was out and I appreciated that a lot - we worked on finding a washer that came close to Tarmac's specs and bore it out to properly fit the shaft and sanded it to get a good thickness so it slid into place like the original. The oil pump chain was a bit loose but not way out - we adjusted it as well. The mechanic took it for a 40 minute ride and then so did I - the rattle/vibration has been greatly diminished. I wouldn't say it is 100% eliminated as I was expecting (or hoping), but the difference is quite noticeable and it feels much better on deceleration.

Thanks Tarmac and everyone for contributing. Pierre
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  #145  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:47 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM400MAN
Hi all,I have recently purchased a 2012 K1300S and after 500klms started to experience the same noise and vibration problems.Been back to the dealer and am now in intense negotiation with BMW Australia,I am refusing to accept this bike back under any circumstance.Apparently BMW want to order a new alternator idler shaft from Germany,seems BMW have replacement parts to fix this problem so they have known about this issue from the start,but have deliberately denied of it`s existence.I am refusing to pay good money for a product that does not meet my expectation of a quality motorcycle,and no way will I allow the mechanics to open up the engine and strip it down.They have already pulled the clutch basket out and there is now paint missing from around the clutch cover.I still cannot believe that one of the biggest motorcycle builders can allow this debarcle to happen.Here in australia we have an organisation called the Consumers,Traders and Tenancy Tribunal,they have the legal power to enforce repair,replacement or refund orders and this is where I am now heading.Defently do not want another crap k1300 (am the owner of a great S1000RR) so am after my trade in back,a good old ZX12R Ninja. cheers,Steve Fennell

Hi Steve, just curious as to what happened with your k1300 noise/ vibration issue?
Did the dealer fix it or give you your money back?
I'm in a fight with my dealer, same issue, 2010 k1300r
They are now denying there is even a problem!
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  #146  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:04 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi GPK1300,

My dealer was very helpful and offered a repair on my original 2009 K1300s. However, I was still not happy and we agreed a replacement 2010 K1300s. The 2nd bike has none of the symptoms - it's fast and smooth and I'm very happy with it. I'd have to add the footnote that I've only done 3,500 miles so far though. I've already posted here that Ocean BMW in Plymouth (then surely all BMW dealers worldwide by now) are now aware of the fault and know how to repair it (back in 2009 / 2011 there was uncertainty). I'm still surprised to read in this forum that owners are attempting their own repairs - when surely BMW should be assisting with a warranty or recall repair. I'd never go for my money back, but dependent on consumer law wherever you are - a replacement or repair (if your dealer is competent) seems appropriate. In the UK the Sale of Goods Act covers this - there is complete consumer protection if the "goods" are not accepted.

I hope your BMW dealer / importer are helpful with this and get it sorted for you - not every example of this model has the problem and they are fabulous when running well!

Good luck!

SteveB
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  #147  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:55 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveB
Hi GPK1300,

My dealer was very helpful and offered a repair on my original 2009 K1300s. However, I was still not happy and we agreed a replacement 2010 K1300s. The 2nd bike has none of the symptoms - it's fast and smooth and I'm very happy with it. I'd have to add the footnote that I've only done 3,500 miles so far though. I've already posted here that Ocean BMW in Plymouth (then surely all BMW dealers worldwide by now) are now aware of the fault and know how to repair it (back in 2009 / 2011 there was uncertainty). I'm still surprised to read in this forum that owners are attempting their own repairs - when surely BMW should be assisting with a warranty or recall repair. I'd never go for my money back, but dependent on consumer law wherever you are - a replacement or repair (if your dealer is competent) seems appropriate. In the UK the Sale of Goods Act covers this - there is complete consumer protection if the "goods" are not accepted.

I hope your BMW dealer / importer are helpful with this and get it sorted for you - not every example of this model has the problem and they are fabulous when running well!

Good luck!

SteveB

Thanks Steve. I was actually asking RM400MAN , Steve Fennel i believe is his name , about the solution of his problem. A lot of guys seem to disappear from this forum unfortunately. I know you had a resolution, but unfortunately you have never been able to say what the mechanical solution was or what BMW said the problem was. I know you got a new bike but it would be nice to know what the specific fix was.
This is a terrible, unacceptable flaw for these bikes. My regional BMW Motorrad told us " we recognize the issue but there is no recorded fix to it", and " that's what a K1300 sounds like" Its likely going to court.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:42 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I've posted a video of the noise the drivetrain makes on Youtube. Just type in "BMW K1300R noise and vibration" and voila ! Enjoy the beautiful sound of a cement mixer that numbs your balls. What an excellent product. It goes 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and mixes a batch of grout to boot.
BTW I own a 2010 R1200GSA and what an amazing, well built bike it has been. The k1300 has been , and continues to be a disaster.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:02 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK1300
BTW I own a 2010 R1200GSA and what an amazing, well built bike it has been. The k1300 has been , and continues to be a disaster.

I'm looking forward R1200GSA after current K1200R. Also K1300GT is on my mind.
Does GT make the same noise?

Had a ride on 2008 R1200GSA and liked it. Power is nothing to compare with K1200R, but the wind protection and comfort were nothing to compare with KR. And all-round feature of GS is very tempting.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:14 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I would have to assume the K1300GT would make the same noise and vibration as it's a de-tuned version of the S and R. It has the same drive train. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Buy the GSA. If the GS and GSA had noise and vibration like the K1300's they would have fixed the problem a long time ago.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:41 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I know of 2 x BMW K 1300GT's which had their cam tensioner replaced in the past 3 months due to noise. Apparently when the bike stands for long, the oil runs back to sump and then it when the bike starts up, it runs without oil for a min or 2 and gets damaged. BMW replaced these under warrantee.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Guys, I talked to the helpful people at Ocean BMW and he said he fixed at least (3) K1300's with this noise/vibration problem at 3000-4000m RPM. These are the parts he changed:

11267684347 is the entire generator free wheel assembly
07119905412 is an o-ring

Depending on how accurately the assembly was manufactured results in how loud your bike is going to be. Mine is very loud.

That being said, what guarantee is there that the new assembly your dealer orders is going to be any better ? They may have to try several before you achieve a quiet bike.

There you have it. Sounds more like we bought a scooter built in China than a high tech German machine.

The vibration in this area is a fundamental flaw and they should be ashamed of themselves for letting these bikes go on the market. They should be even more embarrassed by trying to deny it and cover it up.

What is worse is the incompetence, and lack of knowledge of the problem or fix that most dealers have.
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  #153  
Old 09-06-2012, 02:41 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK1300
I've posted a video of the noise the drivetrain makes on Youtube. Just type in "BMW K1300R noise and vibration" and voila ! Enjoy the beautiful sound of a cement mixer that numbs your balls. What an excellent product. It goes 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and mixes a batch of grout to boot.
BTW I own a 2010 R1200GSA and what an amazing, well built bike it has been. The k1300 has been , and continues to be a disaster.

Sounds like a normal four cylinder motorcycle engine to me!
I think we may be making a little too much fuss about this issue. It is a rattle that occurs low in the rev range and many riders never even notice it. Furthermore it has no impact on the performance or reliability of the engine so I wouldn't even call it a problem. I'd regard it as a quirk of the K1300 and I've never owned a bike yet that didn't have a few of these....

I've done the washer mod and am pleased with the results but also sympathise with BMW Motorrad who are understandably are reluctant to engage on this.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
Sounds like a normal four cylinder motorcycle engine to me!
I think we may be making a little too much fuss about this issue. It is a rattle that occurs low in the rev range and many riders never even notice it. Furthermore it has no impact on the performance or reliability of the engine so I wouldn't even call it a problem. I'd regard it as a quirk of the K1300 and I've never owned a bike yet that didn't have a few of these....

I've done the washer mod and am pleased with the results but also sympathise with BMW Motorrad who are understandably are reluctant to engage on this.

Have you ridden a ZX-14 or FJR -1300? I have .They are four cylinder motorcycle engines last I checked. Smooth as glass.

It's hard to tell from the video , but it's unacceptable. Trust me.

Do you work for BMW ?
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  #155  
Old 09-09-2012, 05:06 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

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  #156  
Old 09-09-2012, 04:05 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

GPK1300 needs to do a search of lfoggy's posts so he can revise his comment (one of a total of 12).

I'd like to thank lfoggy for sending me a washer made to the correct specs. He only asked that I make a donation to charity as payment. to lfoggy.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:32 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
GPK1300 needs to do a search of lfoggy's posts so he can revise his comment (one of a total of 12).

I'd like to thank lfoggy for sending me a washer made to the correct specs. He only asked that I make a donation to charity as payment. to lfoggy.

I was joking about him working for BMW. I know he doesn't. I was not joking that thus far my K1300R has been a terrible motorcycle. Very annoying to ride, especially that it was strictly bought for fun. I did change the washer as per Tarmac, it did not make a lick of difference. Now they are changing the whole generator freewheel assembly. If that doesn't eliminate the noise and vibration, this bike is bye bye. I've noticed these bikes are not that popular in Canada and the guys selling them are losing their shirts. Wonderful !
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  #158  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:55 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

The original links to the pictures I posted expired and I have had several requests to repost them so here they are (in no particular order).

-Tarmac































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  #159  
Old 09-13-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Now the question yhat remains is: where fo i find or tell the dealer the correct size of the washer? Or where do i find a suitable replacement?
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:04 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hello,

Anybody can help to point out the chemical composition of the washer in question?

If i were to create a specific washer with the correct measurements at a local mechanic shop, i need to tell the people the material out of which i need the washer to be made of.

In other words i need to know how though it has to be, if it's thermally coated or treated? Or at least to know if it's steel or duraluminium.

Thank you
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  #161  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmered
Hello,

Anybody can help to point out the chemical composition of the washer in question?

If i were to create a specific washer with the correct measurements at a local mechanic shop, i need to tell the people the material out of which i need the washer to be made of.

In other words i need to know how though it has to be, if it's thermally coated or treated? Or at least to know if it's steel or duraluminium.

Thank you

THe washer sticks to a magnet so I guess it is made of plain carbon steel.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Any grade of mild or stainless steel will be fine if you opt for the 40mm diameter. If you are making it 20mm then the washer is only in compression so brass or bronze would also be ok too. Would not use an aluminium alloy however. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:56 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I understand. Thank you for the input and help.

A question though: I don't understand why BMW has kept with this 'flaw' for years now, on K1300 and i understand also in K1200 family. Did they intend to make the washer loose on purpose? If so why? And changing it with a tighter one how would that affect things?

BTW does that washer move along with the gear it offsets or is it supposed to be fixed?
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Well, they installed the new generator freewheel assembly which was back ordered for 13 days from Germany. The bike sounds exactly the same. New washer, new generator plus freewheel, clutch basket swapped out, sounds exactly the same.
Unbelievable that BMW sells this garbage.
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  #165  
Old 09-27-2012, 02:00 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

GPK1300,

Sorry to hear your issues are not resolved yet. I remember you saying that one of the first things they tried was adjusting the balance shafts. I assume they didn't remove the engine for this. I know the service manual mentions a quick procedure for this but they also have a detailed section on adjustment that can only be done with the engine out and requires dial indicators which tells me that proper adjustment is critical. If everything else has been replaced and it's still not right the balance shaft adjustment may be off.

-Tarmac
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:10 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I doubt they will remove the engine to do that. The noise is definitely from the generator/starter freewheel area . From research I've found some bikes are more harsh than others and some claim no issue at all. I find that hard to believe.
Anyways, I have given up on this. I'm trying to trade it in or sell it or even go to a lawyer and sue the fantastic Bavarian Empire known as BMW or "Bring Money With"
The dealer is telling me it's really not their fault but the warranty card states all issues should be resolved at the dealer level. The last I checked the sales contract has their name on it and I made the cheque out to them .LOL

They are all the same when you want your money back.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Wow - sorry to hear about your troubles man. I had the washer swapped out and it really helped, not sure if you did this already or not, but my rattle/vibration is mostly gone. I agree with you that you should not have to beg your dealer to address this issue properly - I took it upon myself to create a "document" based on Tarmac's instructions, comments and pictures and insisted this is what I wanted done as a resolution. My BMW mechanic even said that it was an obvious problem and that this fix worked.

We should get a petition going - my BMW mechanic would sign it I'm sure.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:44 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticlife
Wow - sorry to hear about your troubles man. I had the washer swapped out and it really helped, not sure if you did this already or not, but my rattle/vibration is mostly gone. I agree with you that you should not have to beg your dealer to address this issue properly - I took it upon myself to create a "document" based on Tarmac's instructions, comments and pictures and insisted this is what I wanted done as a resolution. My BMW mechanic even said that it was an obvious problem and that this fix worked.

We should get a petition going - my BMW mechanic would sign it I'm sure.

I support this also and i'm ready to back it up.

My dealer also tested the bike and confirmed unofficially that the issue exists but they had no idea (or so they said) of it's existence nor about the fix. Since then and thanks to Tarmac and the others on this forum, i compiled and translated the fix procedure and showed it to the dealer.

At first i expected them to be skeptic about the material i brought with me but instead they were glad and decided to help me as follows:

1. Postpone any effort from my part to build a correct washer and have it replaced under warranty till they submit a PUMA case to BMW and see what feedback they get.
2. If that fails, perform the washer change after i somehow build the correct washer at a local engineering shop.

I for one don't hold my breath with the PuMA case and i already started to look for a shop to build my specific part (washer).

Keep you posted.

PS: Already ordered the BMW service DVD. BTW nobody here is kind enough to share the data with us? Maybe upload it to a file sharing site?
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:32 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

FYI... I posted all the BMW tools I bought for this job along with a new generator freewheel assembly in the classified section.

-Tarmac
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:40 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

PM to you on your items for sale.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:36 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

PM resent. I would like to purchase all except the Gen Freewheel assembly just in case that PM doesn't make it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:24 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

PM sent earlier today
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  #173  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:54 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Guys,

Using tarmac's correct measurements for the washer, i gave the local shop those exact measurements and here's what they gave me:





Compared to the washer from BMW which is 40mm, even for 16mm this looks sooooo tiny. Can this really be it?
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  #174  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:10 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

It looks about the right size.
If it matches the dimensions I provided than it is correct.

-Tarmac
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  #175  
Old 10-12-2012, 03:21 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I used a washer which was was 40mm O.D., 9,80mm I.D. and 1.60mm thick and this worked well. Rattle was almost completely eliminated and the function of the washer to maintain gear alignment was retained.
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  #176  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:00 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
I used a washer which was was 40mm O.D., 9,80mm I.D. and 1.60mm thick and this worked well. Rattle was almost completely eliminated and the function of the washer to maintain gear alignment was retained.
Hello, but from my understanding wouldn't a 40 mm washer still rub? I mean the original washer from BMW, as posted in this thread, has a rubbing zone that from my understanding comes from incorrect size (outside diameter).

Correct me if i'm wrong.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:46 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmered
Hello, but from my understanding wouldn't a 40 mm washer still rub? I mean the original washer from BMW, as posted in this thread, has a rubbing zone that from my understanding comes from incorrect size (outside diameter).

Correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure the rattle comes from the washer oscillating on the shaft due to the inside diameter being too large and the washer being too thin. If you make the I.D. exactly 9.80 and the washer 1.6mm thick then it can't rattle much, even when it's the same original O.D. of 40mm. I tried both sizes and 40mm worked just as well as 20 mm. The advantage of the 40mm is that it still works to maintain the gear alignment as intended by BMW.
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  #178  
Old 10-15-2012, 03:29 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
I'm pretty sure the rattle comes from the washer oscillating on the shaft due to the inside diameter being too large and the washer being too thin. If you make the I.D. exactly 9.80 and the washer 1.6mm thick then it can't rattle much, even when it's the same original O.D. of 40mm. I tried both sizes and 40mm worked just as well as 20 mm. The advantage of the 40mm is that it still works to maintain the gear alignment as intended by BMW.
Ummm wait but is the alignment assured by the thickness of the washer and not the outside diameter?

Should i make another washer but with the OD of 40? I'm confused now...

And you still didn't tell me if the 40 mm washer is rubbing on it's outer regions because it's too large (40 mm?). This is the only explanation i can think of...
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  #179  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmered
Ummm wait but is the alignment assured by the thickness of the washer and not the outside diameter?

Should i make another washer but with the OD of 40? I'm confused now...

And you still didn't tell me if the 40 mm washer is rubbing on it's outer regions because it's too large (40 mm?). This is the only explanation i can think of...

Take it apart and have a look at the assembly. All will become clear.
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  #180  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:59 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

It seems to me the smaller inner diameter is all that's really needed to correct the rattle, no? I'd be afraid to run a thicker washer, especially under warranty. You do not want it rubbing hard against another gear. Since I wear earplugs, I'm leaving mine alone. Especially since I didn't read about the fix when I had the cover off for the chain jump guard.
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