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  #1  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:19 AM
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Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

I'm having MAJOR electrical issues with my 2012 K 13s.

I'm seeking recommendations for a shop that has a knowledgeable and "experienced" mechanic/technicians.

My local shop's tech's are not very "seasoned" and seem to be having issues diagnosing the problem and solution to the issue (s) .


Thanks,


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Old 05-10-2017, 08:02 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

As a Product Support Engineer it was my experience that most Repair Technicians struggle when troubleshooting electrical/electronic issues. The complexity of these systems are just not easy to understand the details of software/hardware interactions. Swapping out parts is generally their strategy in the hopes that the new part will cure the problem. If not then try another part, and another part...we called it "Swaptronics Troubleshooting".

Solid State parts (ECMs/Displays) don't "speak" the way a broken mechanical part does. One has to have an accurate Electrical Schematic, an OEM Diagnostic Tool for Data Link messages, and a good Oscilloscope to "peel the Onion". A Systems Requirements Spec is invaluable but this is a document that is never shared outside the company walls. The Dealer Troubleshooting Guide is Authored using information from the SRS but is typically "dumbed down" and thus lacks the finer details of how the System functions.

It may be best to get a BMW Product Support Engineer involved before going any further. It's more likely this person has seen this type of damage/failure before and can properly assist the Dealer on how best to remedy the situation.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:31 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

This may help in your area?

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?...te+independent
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:46 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, in my area there aren't many shops around PERIOD.

I did reach out to a couple listed in the above posted thread to get their take on the issue.

Basically said that if the current shop can't diagnose the issue then they (the shop) should call BMW service rep directly to get some help.

Guess I'll give my shop a couple of more days and if no joy then suggest that they give the BMW rep a call.


Thanks.
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:28 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

It is unusual that they have not already emailed the Fatherland to get some help. When the bike is hooked up to the shop computer it is my understanding that it is also linked to Germany. Software checked for latest versions before work can proceed. If the shop techs can not figure it out they ask for direction from Germany. Un solvable problems are set up with "PUMA" requests. A German engineer will work with the shop. Of course inadequate techs may complicate things. Over the past ten years or so, I have seen bike quality improve by a long shot.
I hope your problems will be resolved quickly. Sometimes it is more than one specific problem adding up to what is going on.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:51 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
It is unusual that they have not already emailed the Fatherland to get some help. When the bike is hooked up to the shop computer it is my understanding that it is also linked to Germany. Software checked for latest versions before work can proceed. If the shop techs can not figure it out they ask for direction from Germany. Un solvable problems are set up with "PUMA" requests. A German engineer will work with the shop. Of course inadequate techs may complicate things. Over the past ten years or so, I have seen bike quality improve by a long shot.
I hope your problems will be resolved quickly. Sometimes it is more than one specific problem adding up to what is going on.

Spoke with the shop again today. They were still at a loss and indeed had started a PUMA request. Apparently, the corporate BMW tech stated that they needed to replace the Central Vehicle Electronics (CVE) module in order to communicate with their diagnostic tool. This is/was merely the first step in diagnosing if any other modules were affected.

As for the techs being inadequate, all I can say is that they are younger than I wish they were in this instance. Also, it will be interesting to see how many hours they billed for "diagnostics" (I'm a cynic LOL!)

Fingers crossed that it's only the CVE module.


Thanks.


Mike
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:46 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Mike can you describe whats happening,
what was the last thing that was fixed?
was the battery ever jumped?
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:53 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
Mike can you describe whats happening,
what was the last thing that was fixed?
was the battery ever jumped?

Had a lightning strike that came through the Battery Tender and apparently fried the battery and at least one control Module.

Turn the key on and only the headlight and dash come on. No other functions.

Previous battery never jumped.

Replaced with a new Yuasa battery.
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:29 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

"As for the techs being inadequate, all I can say is that they are younger than I wish they were in this instance." A sure sign of old age creeping in.
We all know lightning causes serious havoc. I won't be surprised if every solid state part of your bike is toast, so to speak. As for the techs, they have probably never seen anything like this and are justifiably mystified.
Lesson learned: thunderstorm, I unplug the TV and computer. Now that will include any bike on charge. I also have an appliance rated surge protector for my fridge as it has electronics in it too. File that charger in the trash can too.
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2017, 01:19 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Yeah, definitely getting older (LOL).

I'm sure that a bike being taken out by a power surge in't very common. Actually, I'm the only one that I've ever heard of it happening to (lucky me!) So the tech was also at a loss as to what to do.

Shop called today to tell me that the module should be in on Tuesday and they hope to have more info after they the the Module installed. Hopefully know more Wednesday.

I would highly recommend unplugging anything you don't want to take a chance on losing when there is an electrical storm.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to which items the surge takes out.

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:29 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Well, if one only carries liability insurance, then unplugging the bike may be sound advise? For those that carry physical damage, like I do as it's pretty cheap, the policy would cover this type of peril. My bikes are plugged in 24/7 for the last decade....luck of the straw I guess?
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:42 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

I was wondering about that. Has anyone ever successfully made a claim like this on a bike, or car for that matter.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:15 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
Shop called today to tell me that the module should be in on Tuesday and they hope to have more info after they the the Module installed.

If the Wiring Harness suffered damage, say like melted insulation such the some wires are now shorted together, a new ECM could be damaged as soon as power is applied. One way to expose this beforehand is to do a thorough short test on every conductor of the wire harness. It is time consuming and tedious work involving a Volt Meter and a Matrix Checklist to mark off each circuit after it checks good. One should look for evidence of melting on every inch of all Wire Harnesses as well.

It would also be good to unmate and thoroughly examine every Connector Body for visible signs of melting. A melted Connector can short terminals together.

Didn't you say earlier that the bike powered up and ran once, post lighting hit, and then it wouldn't run again afterwards? It's just speculation on my part but Wire Harness melting or Connector melting may have been the culprit.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:04 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
Well, if one only carries liability insurance, then unplugging the bike may be sound advise? For those that carry physical damage, like I do as it's pretty cheap, the policy would cover this type of peril. My bikes are plugged in 24/7 for the last decade....luck of the straw I guess?

Yes, had I had comp/collision insurance it would have been covered.

My theory is that if I wreck the bike and it's my fault then that is the chance I take. No complaints from me as I do this at my own peril.

Should someone crash into me or cause me to crash then their insurance would pay for damages.

In this case, it was no ones fault per say. Just a freak occurrence.

However, since I only have liability then I'm just going to have to eat it.

It sucks but it is what it is.

My advice (regardless of what insurance you carry) is to unplug anything you don't want the possibility of being damaged in an electrical storm.
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:25 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
If the Wiring Harness suffered damage, say like melted insulation such the some wires are now shorted together, a new ECM could be damaged as soon as power is applied. One way to expose this beforehand is to do a thorough short test on every conductor of the wire harness. It is time consuming and tedious work involving a Volt Meter and a Matrix Checklist to mark off each circuit after it checks good. One should look for evidence of melting on every inch of all Wire Harnesses as well.

It would also be good to unmate and thoroughly examine every Connector Body for visible signs of melting. A melted Connector can short terminals together.

Didn't you say earlier that the bike powered up and ran once, post lighting hit, and then it wouldn't run again afterwards? It's just speculation on my part but Wire Harness melting or Connector melting may have been the culprit.

I honestly don't know how thorough the tech was when he was diagnosing my bike. I highly doubt he was that thorough.

I guess we'll find out if there is a harness issue when he plugs in the new ECU.

Yes, directly after the strike/surge, I unplugged all three Tenders from my bikes and started them all up. They all ran fine and functioned normally. My Yamaha and Ducati still function normally.

In regard to a harness being melted, do you believe that the SAE cable going from the Tender to the bike would have melted before a wiring harness?

How about the positive cable from the battery itself?

In all of my other household appliances that were damaged, there was no damage to any cables. The surge took out the motherboards or internal electrics.

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Old 05-12-2017, 01:27 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
I was wondering about that. Has anyone ever successfully made a claim like this on a bike, or car for that matter.

My friend had a Toyota Tundra that took a hit a couple of years ago. His insurance covered it.

It would be no different than a tree falling on your vehicle during a storm.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:43 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
In regard to a harness being melted, do you believe that the SAE cable going from the Tender to the bike would have melted before a wiring harness?

How about the positive cable from the battery itself?

It's difficult to speculate about what suffered damage and what didn't. Lightning Strikes do very strange things. It's similar to other types of Electromagnetic phenomenon in it's unpredictableness (that's a word I just made up).

If you're familiar with Fluid Dynamics then you know it's also a non-exact science that just can't be pinned down. Meteorologist suffer this and thus can never be 100% accurate in their weather forecasting despite their best models and powerful computers.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
It's difficult to speculate about what suffered damage and what didn't. Lightning Strikes do very strange things. It's similar to other types of Electromagnetic phenomenon in it's unpredictableness (that's a word I just made up).

If you're familiar with Fluid Dynamics then you know it's also a non-exact science that just can't be pinned down. Meteorologist suffer this and thus can never be 100% accurate in their weather forecasting despite their best models and powerful computers.

Quite familiar with Fluid Dynamics.

I've been drinking quite a bit lately


Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the new ECU replacement.

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Old 05-22-2017, 09:06 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Update:

The shop installed the new module ($1160) and is now able to communicate with the bike's electronics.

Unfortunately, it is saying to replace ALL modules.

The shop has a PUMA going and is waiting for BMW to respond with any suggestions for a fix.

Worse case scenario is that I'll have to replace the four remaining modules.

I know one of the remaining four lists for $970. I believe it's the engine management module.

The other three are the switchgear module, the ABS module and the TPMS module.

No idea what they will cost.

What a fooking mess!
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:14 PM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Instead of the TPMS module, just get the alarm system retrofit kit. Then you will have TPMS and security system. If you want to stick with just TPMS, I've seen several TPMS modules on ebay at reasonable prices.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:17 AM
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Re: Experienced BMW Shop Recommendations?

Darn bike was just about totaled. Must be a message. You're stick to it will save the poor thing.
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