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  #1  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:38 AM
roadwarrior roadwarrior is offline
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Clutch Slipping

Has anyone had a clutch failure in a K1300?

I bought my 2010 K1300GT EE with 34,000 miles in March. I bought the bike on spec and imported it from Ireland into the UK. It was last serviced at 31,000 miles at the end of 2015; so 2 years ago. After putting about 750 miles on the bike I decided to change the oil. I struggled to get the recommended Castrol Power 1 racing oil, and thus ordered Westway Lubricants 5w40 Motorcycle oil (wet clutch compatible). Besides the Westway oil was 22 for a 5 litre bottle vs 60 for 4x1litre bottles.

I replaced the oil, using the Westway oil, and a K&N filter. I put just over 3 litres of oil in the bike. One my first ride to work and back (12 miles), the oil light came on. I topped up with another 1/2 litre and the light went off. Every time I have ridden the bike since I get the checkmark when idling after a spell on the road. I then rode the bike for about 750 miles over the course of mostly short runs. My run to work is only 6 miles; One day while taking a 15 mile detour along the motorway, in 6th gear, I applied the throttle and the clutch slipped; the throttle increased but the speed of the bike did not.

There was no prior warning as to an impending clutch failure. There was no noise from the clutch. There is no difficulty changing gear or finding neutral. The bike DOES "clunk" into each gear, but I believe this is normal and is not excessive. There is no smell. The oil that I removed from the bike was clean.

Suspecting the oil is not compatible, I have purchased 7 litres of BMW Advantec 5w40, and 2x K&N filters, costing 130. I have since spoken to Westway Lubricants and they insist their oil is manufactured to ISO standards and has passed Wet Clutch friction tests. BMW is quoting about 200 to inspect the clutch, and 700-1300 to replace the clutch.

I am hoping someone will tell me it is most likely the oil at fault. Alternatively if anyone else has experienced the same thing and it was the clutch, I will not waste my time or cash replacing the oil and will (have no choice but to) suck up the clutch replacement.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2017, 06:22 AM
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Welcome aboard Jeff, attached link to some heavy clutch reading. 400four is in your neck of the woods and may be worth sending a PM.

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004

May I also suggest the next link, tell us a bit about yourself, pictures of bike, albeit with unhappy clutch, are a hit around here.

http://www.i-bmw.com/forumdisplay.php?f=152
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:42 AM
roadwarrior roadwarrior is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

I've had a (negative) development. See if this sheds any light for anyone here...

I work 6.5 miles from home. On the way is a motorcycle specialist, JWA motorcycles. I decided to take a detour and and speak to them; The bike seemed ok when I first started off from work. Within a mile the clutch started slipping. On the way to the garage, the bike lost more and more power...I was being over taken by citreons.

The guy I needed to speak to was not in, so I drove home. As I left the shop, there was no power. 10mph....then nothing. I had to push and coast the bike. I then turned the bike off while I pushed it up a hill by my house. Got to the top, and went to start the bike....nothing. Battery is dead. The trip has reset itself to 0.

Firstly, this obviously goes beyond incompatible oil, or even a defunct clutch.

Anyone got any clues?
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:26 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

I think you have multiple problems that probably are not related. Use the correct oil, you have figured this out. Your clutch is probably no good now. Buy a fresh battery. Stop going cheap, it does not work out most of the time. I will not work with this bike. You have purchased the most expensive to maintain BMW, the K bike. Sorry for your troubles. Give up the K&N filters go Mann. Also get a battery maintenance charger. You need to plug you bike in if you don't ride it every day. And the socket will need to be direct to the battery not through the bike CAN buss system. At 30,000 miles your clutch could easily have been ready to die anyway though. It all depends on how it is used. If the odd oil did cause the problem, it sounds like it has slipped enough to destroy it now anyway. I have 107,000 miles on my original clutch, I ride fast but don't do hard starts. I am meticulous about my maintenance and products that I use. I save money by doing most of my own work. I know some have no place to work on their bikes or no inclination to do so. No problem, but don't skimp.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:59 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Are you absolutely sure the clutch is slipping? I recently had a similar-sounding issue with my 2015 K1300s - applied power around 5000 rpm and the bike made some bad noises, but would not accelerate to a higher RPM. This happened twice, right after pulling away from the house before it was warmed up.

The key is that the revs did not increase, just the engine noise.

Then my battery died.

Upon replacing the battery, the bike accelerates normally, leading me to think that the plugs weren't getting enough juice when the battery was nearly dead.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:37 PM
roadwarrior roadwarrior is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Use the correct oil, you have figured this out.

You are right (probably). I didn't cheap out on purpose; I actually had difficulty getting castor Power 1 racing; this oil while cheaper, was to spec; and I have used Westway Lubricants before on other things without issue. However, the bike is currently draining and will be left to drain for 3 days until Saturday. I am putting new oil and filter, and using the current recommendation of BMW Advantec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Your clutch is probably no good now.
What makes you say that? Shouldn't flushing the oil, by replacing it twice resolve it if this was the issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Buy a fresh battery.
Agreed. Battery is reading 11.7V and looks original. It is BMW. I have removed it and will replace it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
stop going cheap, it does not work out most of the time. I will not work with this bike. You have purchased the most expensive to maintain BMW, the K bike.
Agreed, although it wasn't entirely my intention. But yes...I should have stuck with a tried and tested product. The main thing is the wet clutch and I have ZERO experience of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Give up the K&N filters
I tend to agree. The K&N filters are nice with there socket fitting, but on the K bike with the shifter in the way I still needed to strap a chain around it to get it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
At 30,000 miles your clutch could easily have been ready to die anyway though. It all depends on how it is used.
I ride fairly fast but conservatively if that makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
If the odd oil did cause the problem, it sounds like it has slipped enough to destroy it now anyway.
Not disagreeing, but why?

THanks
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:39 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by phxazcraig
Are you absolutely sure the clutch is slipping?

Yes. RPM increase not in line with the acceleration. At the end tonight the bike stopped, even though it was in first gear and idling.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:18 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

I think if the clutch is slipping, (rpm going up, no bike moving in relation), this can burn up the little friction pads. Start with the battery. You have fresh good oil in it so you can see how it goes, so to speak. Do not buy a BMW battery they are too expensive and rather average in quality. 11.7 is serious bad sign. Trying to start a BMW with a low battery leads to other bad things. The newer ones have a computer function that will not allow starting below a certain voltage.
Yuasa YTX 14H-BS 12Ah 240CC (double check your battery for size as this is for a K1300S)
Charge it for minimum 4 hours before installation to get that last 20% capacity set up.
Please don't forget that trickle maintenance charger, it is really important. You want one that is not a constant charger but one that monitors the battery and charges as needed.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:03 AM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Please don't forget that trickle maintenance charger, it is really important. You want one that is not a constant charger but one that monitors the battery and charges as needed.

Oxford Oximiser 3x any good?
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:21 AM
roadwarrior roadwarrior is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Ok.

I have to accept that I have very possibly screwed my own clutch plates. The oil has only been in for 1000 miles and there is evidence of wear by the presence of filings on the magnetic plug.

I'm going to guess this is probably filings from the clutch. The attached photos show the plug as it was removed yesterday.

I hear people talking about clutch baskets; and if they shatter they take mist of the engine with them. What is the chance I have damaged the basket too? Obviously this is a me expensive repair bill and likely a deffo main dealer one at that if I have.
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Old 10-26-2017, 12:44 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Oxford Oximiser 3x any good?
From what I just read about it, this would be a good unit. There are several brands out there of course. Hook up a pigtail to your battery for it to connect directly. (fuse in line also).
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:42 AM
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Be nice to have a little feed back, in some cases.

http://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=2703.0
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:16 AM
roadwarrior roadwarrior is offline
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Re: Clutch Slipping

I had to change the clutch which was worn and also 2 plates at the front and back of the clutch pack that sits inside the basket.

To get the plates the whole pack had to be ordered from bmw.

I now have a spare Barnett clutch if anyone needs one.

Mechanic said it was unlikely to be a result of the oil used.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:12 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Mechanic said it was unlikely to be a result of the oil used.

In this thread you say the Oil you used meets Spec. The Spec must be SAE 5-W40 JASO MA/MA2 Spec to work correctly with a Wet Clutch. I use Shell Rotella T6 5-W40. The last time I changed my Engine Oil/Filter it took 3.8 Liters to put it at the top of the Sight Glass marks.

Another idea about clutch slippage would be if the Clutch hydraulic line has air inside and expands as the engine heats up...thus dis-engaging the clutch and making it slip. Your's being a 2010 model I'd change out all the Hydraulic Fluids.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:04 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Roadwarrior, thanks for following up on the story.

I agree with R111S that clutch slippage can come from fluid problems. Not saying this was your prob, but a just a note that it happens. My Suzuki Bandit had the symptom of starting to slip the clutch, with the problem getting steadliy worse over a couple days to being almost not ridable. At the end I almost didn't get up the hill to my house. I read up on it on the internet and found that a rusty slave cylinder could be the culprit. And it was. So long ago that I don't even remember if I replaced it or just took it apart and cleaned it. Whatever damage may possibly have occured to the plates, it worked fine with the cylinder restored and new fluid.

Caused, naturally, by not changing the fluid. I hardly ever changed brake and clutch fluids on any of my bikes until now (like every 5-10 years when they got dark and cloudy), but I'm paranoid about changing fluids on the K-bike. It's like BMW designs on purpose for things to fail if not faithfully maintained.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:46 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

This is the reason BMW has been using mineral oil for many years now, no serious water problems as with using brake fluid for the clutch. I think most people ignored the clutch fluid over the years.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:28 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Roadwarrior, here's a question, the answer to which might be obvious but I have to ask anyway.

Now that it appears your clutch is toast (sorry 'bout that), does the bike still "klunk" when shifting from neutral to first?

The answer might shed light on why our bikes do that. One supposition is that the clutch is not fully releasing when it should. Fourhundred4 posts a lot of information in another thread which is linked above, and shows in some of his youtube videos that the last plate suffers from complete loss of friction material even though other plates are in decent shape. A BMW-fitted belville washer (late production only, I suspect yours should have it) is supposed to have been their effort to mitigate the klunk.

404 believes the real problem is lack of adequate lubrication to the clutch plates generally and that last plate in particular, and to address that he drills additional oil holes in the clutch basket at appropriate intervals. He also refits new dimpled steels and clutch plates obtained from other than BMW. He provides a new set of anti-rattle springs that in his opinion were severely under-engineered by the OE clutch supplier (not BMW). There is commentary about the roller bearing being insufficient; others also report balancing the clutch assembly can help.

From all posted by 404 he seems to have a superior handle on what and why the clutch does what it does, and how he can improve it. I'm on the far side of the world running a Barnett clutch set installed by the PO and my bike klunks a lot. Need to research alternatives before I consider stripping and shipping to Old Blighty at USD $70 each way.

Keep us posted as to your experience....
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
In this thread you say the Oil you used meets Spec. The Spec must be SAE 5-W40 JASO MA/MA2 Spec to work correctly with a Wet Clutch. I use Shell Rotella T6 5-W40.

The spec "JASO-MA" or "JASO-MA2" is extremely important. Either of these specs mean that the oil is intended for wet clutch. Car oils, no matter how expensive, can cause clutch slippage as a result of the friction modifiers they can contain, to reduce friction and increase mileage.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:51 PM
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Re: Clutch Slipping

maybe low volatge was causing traction control to act especially strange?
A shot in the dark.
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