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  #1  
Old 05-27-2007, 09:52 AM
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2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

yes.....
i know ALL about the crappy/warping airbox that BMW put in my K1200GT
but......
i NEVER had the problem

then..
while at the dealer yesterday,they decide to take care of all kinds of "campaigns" on my bike

1. new center stand
2. oil filler cap
3. 9.1 software install

takes 16:16. i'm there 6 hours. i leave

instantly the bike surges/can't even ride it safely
go back.... and it turns out....
"never install the 9.1 software before you put in a new airbox/even on bikes that have never had the problem previously"

so....
they no more airboxes...they don't know when they will
and..... i can't ride my bike (safely)

oh... and..... on the way home
i (of course) wasn't very happy
so.... i was going 72 in a 50
memorial day weekend
and.... i get stopped
NICEST COP IN THE WORLD
wanted to take for 15 minutes about my 2 gps devices on 1 bike
bmw nav iii
garmin 376c
LOVED my bike

STILL HAVE ME A $210.60 ticket for "22 over"


it was a GREAT FUCK__G day
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:13 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg, very sorry to hear that, The dealer should not have let you leave for home on that bike. They should have loaned you a properly running bike until they could make it right. I'm pissed and it didn't even happen to me!
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  #3  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:14 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg, I too had 9.1 installed yesterday, it took 2 tries to get it in. I rode it 90+ miles on the way home from the dealer with no sign of high idle. I have 1 of the 1st GT's, and the original air-box. I gotta think they didn't get 9.1 in successfully.
After the 1st try they didn't realize it didn't take, the tech rode the bike he said the idle was high. I was glad because he said now it's documented and BMW will have to do something to fix it(new ECU ).
Before I left he wanted to make sure he had all the facts as to how and when the high idle happened. He was going thru the print out when he realized it didn't take.
They re-did it, it took and it seems to be alright, of course 90 miles is no where enough to be sure.
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  #4  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:22 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

i appreciate the posts
we went through the printout twice
it showed no faults and said that it DID "TAKE"
i asked them to re-do it as well

i told them..... that it happened right away and that the bike was COLD, so the airbox couldn't have been warped AT THAT POINT....
so, it HAD to be the software install
and they just didn't believe that

afterall the bikes i've bought from them.... i was very pissed off
my "officer experience" didn't help matters
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  #5  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:23 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Greg, very sorry to hear that, The dealer should not have let you leave for home on that bike. They should have loaned you a properly running bike until they could make it right. I'm pissed and it didn't even happen to me!

i should have demanded a loaner
you are correct about that
the 22-mile.... all in traffic home was quite ande "adventure" to say the very least
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:34 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I don't think the air-box warping has anything to do with high idle. On the way down to the BRPR we stopped at a light my idle was bouncing from 1500 to 2200 RPM, I turned it off and immediately restarted it. The idle was back to 1000 RPM.
The air-box sure didn't dewarp (is that a word) in 10 seconds.
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2007, 10:45 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
I don't think the air-box warping has anything to do with high idle. On the way down to the BRPR we stopped at a light my idle was bouncing from 1500 to 2200 RPM, I turned it off and immediately restarted it. The idle was back to 1000 RPM.
The air-box sure didn't dewarp (is that a word) in 10 seconds.

as usual, i am at the mercy of the dealership
the better part of an hour away
not open until tuesday, of course...
i guess i'll be spending NEXT saturday there as well
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  #8  
Old 05-27-2007, 11:25 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg:
First let me say I feel for you. But when reading your post I had a slight laugh to myself. I said this guy must be related to me. That kind of stuff happens to me all the time. I go to get something fixed and the bike runs worst than before I brought it there. While riding over to the dealer I found out my house was blown away by a tornado. Then call my insurance guy and he tells me I'm not covered. Then my wife tells me I have exactly 2 hours to buy her a new house fully furnished, and she is not kidding.
I swear if it was not for bad luck guys like us would have nothing to talk about. Good luck, try to stay calm, this is my new attitude towards everything. Other wise nice guys like us may go off the deep end.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2007, 11:35 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucev
Greg:
First let me say I feel for you. But when reading your post I had a slight laugh to myself. I said this guy must be related to me. That kind of stuff happens to me all the time. I go to get something fixed and the bike runs worst than before I brought it there. While riding over to the dealer I found out my house was blown away by a tornado. Then call my insurance guy and he tells me I'm not covered. Then my wife tells me I have exactly 2 hours to buy her a new house fully furnished, and she is not kidding.
I swear if it was not for bad luck guys like us would have nothing to talk about. Good luck, try to stay calm, this is my new attitude towards everything. Other wise nice guys like us may go off the deep end.

wow Bruce....
i think you have me beat by a lightyear....
i was quite calm after the ticket... afterall, i ride over the speed limit ALL THE TIME...
and.... i deserved the citation

being an hour from my dealer and working 6 days/week..... rarely with time to ride/knowing that i'll be spending countless MORE hours at the dealer.... that's what has me "not-too-thrilled"

enjoy your sunday
and.... i agree that this whole event IS quite "laughable"
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2007 K1200GT
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg:
I might be exagerrating just a little. But you get the idea. I make an appointment for service and when I get there they don't have me on the schedule and it will be at least until next fall for the next appointment. This is the number one reason I do most of my own service. Usually I give the dealer the first service just to say I did and then warranty work only.
I rather spend my money on tools needed to do it myself. not to mention I save a huge amount of time. I can go out in the garage at night and to the service work. The same thing with tires, I got fed up with the time it took not to mention the cost. Plus I have a big trust issue, if my tires or wheels are going to come off the bike at least I can only blame myself. Bought a NoMar and never looked back.
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2007, 12:04 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucev
Greg:
I might be exagerrating just a little. But you get the idea. I make an appointment for service and when I get there they don't have me on the schedule and it will be at least until next fall for the next appointment. This is the number one reason I do most of my own service. Usually I give the dealer the first service just to say I did and then warranty work only.
I rather spend my money on tools needed to do it myself. not to mention I save a huge amount of time. I can go out in the garage at night and to the service work. The same thing with tires, I got fed up with the time it took not to mention the cost. Plus I have a big trust issue, if my tires or wheels are going to come off the bike at least I can only blame myself. Bought a NoMar and never looked back.

you are absolutely correct
of course, this "COMPUTER" or "AIRBOX" issue is something only a dealer can tackle
1. i don't have a ECU-programming computer (of course)
2. i can't get "approval" on replacement airboxes, as a consumer

my dealer treats me well
they have 3 bmw master technicians there..... a very well-staffed shop
but.....
their logic... on some occasions (like THIS one) escapes me
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Clearwater, FL USA

2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:35 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Please file a complaint at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
These high idle problems are safety problems that need to be fixed.
Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2007, 05:02 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

At the risk of sounding adamant - how is it an owner goes in for the new ecu and comes out with yet another software (9.1) download on the old ecu?

Look at it this way. If that happened in my bike it would mean the following. The old ecu (which, by the way couldn't accept the asc) loaded with the original 7.0; then, 7.l, 7.01, 8.1 and finally 9.1. Really!! Solving one problem and creating another.

Compare that with the new ecu BMS-KP with 8.1 pre-loaded at the factory!

If it's possible, have your dealer dump that old ecu with whatever code is floating around in it and replace it with the new ecu? It sure seems like the best bet for a smooth performing GT at this point.

It should be added that when exploring the options to correct the issues with my bike and before the ecu was replaced with the new ecu, there was a comment made by the tech that BMW has a "new", updated airbox available. Clearly, if the bike in question has a faulty airbox, or for that matter, another "mechanical" part that's defective, the new ecu will not correct that kind of problem. Having said that, my guess is that most of these issues on most of our bikes would go away with the new ecu installed.

Miles
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2007, 05:31 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg,
sorry for all the problems. The way I look at it is this: We have chosen a hobby ( like many) that is just a problem waiting to happen. From the mundane..rain shower to problems like yours. Another choice would be to not ride. I think about that option as I get older. I know one day I won't ride cause of age related issues. Today, just got back from a 2 day ride up to the Natches Trace and back. Total distance about 650 miles. Man Am I outta shape! So whats the point...I realized that like many sports one can be a part of.... M/Cing is tops. I plan on enjoying as long as I can & fully expect to have days like yours. I hate when they happen, but the alternative is worse.

BTW, did you have a radar detector in use?
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:04 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
At the risk of sounding adamant - how is it an owner goes in for the new ecu and comes out with yet another software (9.1) download on the old ecu?

Look at it this way. If that happened in my bike it would mean the following. The old ecu (which, by the way couldn't accept the asc) loaded with the original 7.0; then, 7.l, 7.01, 8.1 and finally 9.1. Really!! Solving one problem and creating another.

Compare that with the new ecu BMS-KP with 8.1 pre-loaded at the factory!

If it's possible, have your dealer dump that old ecu with whatever code is floating around in it and replace it with the new ecu? It sure seems like the best bet for a smooth performing GT at this point.

It should be added that when exploring the options to correct the issues with my bike and before the ecu was replaced with the new ecu, there was a comment made by the tech that BMW has a "new", updated airbox available. Clearly, if the bike in question has a faulty airbox, or for that matter, another "mechanical" part that's defective, the new ecu will not correct that kind of problem. Having said that, my guess is that most of these issues on most of our bikes would go away with the new ecu installed.

Miles

thanks for the post, miles
i am as frustrated as can be
i'm going to leave my bike at the dealer on tuesday afternoon, after work
and..... take home a LOANER
whatever bike they have for me
i'm going to have them contact BMW NA
i want a new ECU
i want the new airbox

they keep telling me that it's the airbox
i know all about the airbox issues...... my OCD over-forum use has me WELL-INFORMED as usual

when i left the dealership, after 6 hours of "FUN" the bike began to have the SURGING/HIGH IDLE RPM issue < 5 minutes out
the bike was COLD
there is NO way that heat could have warped the airbox at that point
and....

1. i've NEVER had the problem before the update
2. the tupperware was NEVER removed for this update..... so, no one touched the airbox, even in error

i have to work on tuesday and cannot spend all day dealing with this issue
but....
they can keep my bike
and i'll let them ride is 100 miles, if they have to..... to make sure the problem is 100% fixed before i pick it up again
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcooper
Please file a complaint at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
These high idle problems are safety problems that need to be fixed.
Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS

i surely agree that this is a SAFETY issue
why bmw hasn't recalled the faulty airbox.... i have no idea
when someone crashes...... and/or worse because of the sudden surging and high-rpm idle.....

bmw will be in LOADS of trouble
especially when it is WELL-DOCUMENTED that they have known of this problem for some time
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2007, 06:07 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
Greg,
sorry for all the problems. The way I look at it is this: We have chosen a hobby ( like many) that is just a problem waiting to happen. From the mundane..rain shower to problems like yours. Another choice would be to not ride. I think about that option as I get older. I know one day I won't ride cause of age related issues. Today, just got back from a 2 day ride up to the Natches Trace and back. Total distance about 650 miles. Man Am I outta shape! So whats the point...I realized that like many sports one can be a part of.... M/Cing is tops. I plan on enjoying as long as I can & fully expect to have days like yours. I hate when they happen, but the alternative is worse.

BTW, did you have a radar detector in use?

i fully agree with your point

no...... no radar detector on the bike
i was a moron for speeding
- at that location
- on a holiday weekend

it was "MY BAD" all the way
nice cop....
great conversation
sad that he still gave me the well-deserved citation

STILL not in their computer..... by the way
was going to pay it and be done... online
but.....
holiday weekend, i guess

such is life

a classic case of:

"you play........ you pay"
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Greg Savel
Clearwater, FL USA

2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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Old 05-27-2007, 08:05 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I could not ride a GT w/o a gendarm locator
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:16 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
yes.....
i know ALL about the crappy/warping airbox that BMW put in my K1200GT
but......
i NEVER had the problem

then..
while at the dealer yesterday,they decide to take care of all kinds of "campaigns" on my bike

1. new center stand
2. oil filler cap
3. 9.1 software install


What was the reason they installed the 9.1 and what was in it before?

I upgraded to 7.0.1 at my 6,000 mile inspection to cure the jerking at low speeds. It worked and also made my low rpm shifts smoother.

I never had High Idle until last winter at 10,000 miles. I had four instances then one more at 14,000 miles. I reported it to my dealer at the 12,000 mile inspection. Not a chronic problem by any means but I did want to get it on the record so I told my local dealer I was going to report it to the NHTSA. They were all for that.

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200GT
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:49 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcooper
What was the reason they installed the 9.1 and what was in it before?

I upgraded to 7.0.1 at my 6,000 mile inspection to cure the jerking at low speeds. It worked and also made my low rpm shifts smoother.

I never had High Idle until last winter at 10,000 miles. I had four instances then one more at 14,000 miles. I reported it to my dealer at the 12,000 mile inspection. Not a chronic problem by any means but I did want to get it on the record so I told my local dealer I was going to report it to the NHTSA. They were all for that.

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200GT

i had 8.1 installed on the bike about a month ago because of some typical EFI "hunting" in 2nd and 3rd gear in the 2,500 rpm range

after the 8.1..... there was the typical "HOLE" in the torque/hp curve in 2-4 gears at 3,000-5,000 rpm

i had NOT expected to have anything done to my bike yesterday.....
but......
they weren't busy and decided to take care of ALL THE CAMPAIGNS currently open on my bike
the oil filler cap
the center stand having too much lateral "play"

i could never have envisioned....
- the 6-hour wait
- the 3,000 rpm idle/airbox(?) issues
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2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #21  
Old 05-28-2007, 12:54 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
I could not ride a GT w/o a gendarm locator

i have never had a radar detector on a bike
in fact.....
the last detector i owned was the ORIGINAL PASSPORT.... circa 1987.... and i'm NOT kidding

i always go over the limit
i did briefly own a SOLO a few years back
really didn't like it

have used valentine one a couple of time
nice unit
and i've read all the comparos and opinions about the Bel R65/Escort 8500 vs the V1....

it's LASER coverage that is so controversial
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2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2007, 02:30 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
i had 8.1 installed on the bike about a month ago because of some typical EFI "hunting" in 2nd and 3rd gear in the 2,500 rpm range

after the 8.1..... there was the typical "HOLE" in the torque/hp curve in 2-4 gears at 3,000-5,000 rpm

i had NOT expected to have anything done to my bike yesterday.....
but......
they weren't busy and decided to take care of ALL THE CAMPAIGNS currently open on my bike
the oil filler cap
the center stand having too much lateral "play"

i could never have envisioned....
- the 6-hour wait
- the 3,000 rpm idle/airbox(?) issues

Greg,
I think I will stay with the 7.0.1 for now. The bike runs GREAT! I will wait until they know for sure what is causing the High Idle. I know it has also affected some K1200S's and R's besides our GT's.
Last month when I had mine serviced they did the oil vent recall ( nice to have a dip stick I can read ), checked wiring harness and checked center stand.
Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200GT
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:47 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg,

Sorry to hear about your problems. My "S" was idling between 1500/2000 RPMs after it was warm/hot. Also, when shutting down the throttle the revs would hesitate before dropping. I took it to the dealer when it was acting up and they agreed there is a problem. I left the bike with them for a week. Of course, when they had the bike, it would not do that again, but they had another problem that when it was warm and would come to a stop, it would stall. They said that it is not software related and do not know what the problem is.
It seems that many K bikes are having similiar problems. Is BMWNA aware of this? Do they really have an answer to the problem? These bikes are expensive and should run perfect all the time.
Anyway, I rode the bike home and it stalls when I get home.I dont ride all week until Saturday morning, when it is relatively cool and before the love bugs are out, and it runs perfect.

Greg
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:13 PM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Let me hasten to add that I had 7.1 loaded into the "old" ecu and the bike ran fine with just a little stickyness in the throttle at slow speed. I was content with the way the bike was running until.....

.....I walked into my local dealership holding two saddlebags in each hand that had "frozen" latches (a bad batch from the supplier, I guess).

I handed the cases to the GM and he mentioned they had just received the 8.1 disc.

I questioned loading the 8.1 software since if I were interpreting the German websites correctly, 8.1 was not to be loaded onto the old ecu in the GT. (It was meant, somehow for the K-S/R).

The GM looked into it and came back with the argument that "tech notes" indicated 8.1 was fine with the GT and the "old" ecu.

Not So! Sixty miles into my trip back home from the dealer with my wife on the back, the bike started bucking, the idle went skyward.

With the long trip to Taos just ahead of us and the GM looking for a solution to the problem, ordered the next iteration of the ecu - BMS-KP.

It was installed (along with the pre-loaded 8.1 done at the factory) and the bike ran smoothly, no bucking, no high idle, no sticky throttle. Just like everyone else who had taken delivery of the Mk II '07 GTs that came with BMS-KP. It was also fortunate that BMW -NA had just come out with the "deal" on the new ecu's - that's supposed to last until the end of June!

As John Palamaro noted, the bike also seemed to run stronger, especially roll-on at higher rpms. Motorrad Magazine tested a K-R with the new '07 ecu and on the dyno it measured a full 10 hp more than than the same bike with the old ecu).

If you have an early '07 with any sort of fueling issue, I would emphatically encourage you to pursue with your dealer and with BMW NA the installation of the new ecu.

Folks, us early guys have an '07. Doesn't it make imminent sense that we should have the "delayed" ecu installed in our bikes. Are they trying to tell us that these later '07's are a different model year? An '07.5 maybe? Treating the whole bike like some later version of software? We have '07's; we should have the '07 BMS-KP ecu. These '07's should all have the same mechanical and electronic systems in my book.

By the way, you can't even get an "old" ecu if you wanted one. Why? A source has told me that all the old ecu's have been returned to Bosch!! That tells me something. In addition, thru the relevant bulletin, any repairs done to any GT involving the ecu "requires" that the replacement of the ecu will be accomplished with the new BMS - KP!

Just tell them you want a "fresh" ecu. You will get the new BMS - KP ecu, guarranteed!

If you have an '06 and choose (and this should be your decision, by the way) to replace the old ecu with the new one, you can but will not be eligible for the "deal" like the '07 owners who receive the new ecu before the end of June. The rationale seems to be that the '07 owners should have had this new ecu all along since it's the current model year.

By the way, the new system cases received at the same time as the new ecu also work as designed!

Miles
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring
Greg,

Sorry to hear about your problems. My "S" was idling between 1500/2000 RPMs after it was warm/hot. Also, when shutting down the throttle the revs would hesitate before dropping. I took it to the dealer when it was acting up and they agreed there is a problem. I left the bike with them for a week. Of course, when they had the bike, it would not do that again, but they had another problem that when it was warm and would come to a stop, it would stall. They said that it is not software related and do not know what the problem is.
It seems that many K bikes are having similiar problems. Is BMWNA aware of this? Do they really have an answer to the problem? These bikes are expensive and should run perfect all the time.
Anyway, I rode the bike home and it stalls when I get home.I dont ride all week until Saturday morning, when it is relatively cool and before the love bugs are out, and it runs perfect.

Greg

your issue is exactly the same as mine
not just the 3,000 idle rpm
but.....
the revs only falling to 1,500 - 2,000
making riding very dangerous
22 miles of STOP-AND-GO traffic will put unneeded stress on the clutch
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
Let me hasten to add that I had 7.1 loaded into the "old" ecu and the bike ran fine with just a little stickyness in the throttle at slow speed. I was content with the way the bike was running until.....

.....I walked into my local dealership holding two saddlebags in each hand that had "frozen" latches (a bad batch from the supplier, I guess).

I handed the cases to the GM and he mentioned they had just received the 8.1 disc.

I questioned loading the 8.1 software since if I were interpreting the German websites correctly, 8.1 was not to be loaded onto the old ecu in the GT. (It was meant, somehow for the K-S/R).

The GM looked into it and came back with the argument that "tech notes" indicated 8.1 was fine with the GT and the "old" ecu.

Not So! Sixty miles into my trip back home from the dealer with my wife on the back, the bike started bucking, the idle went skyward.

With the long trip to Taos just ahead of us and the GM looking for a solution to the problem, ordered the next iteration of the ecu - BMS-KP.

It was installed (along with the pre-loaded 8.1 done at the factory) and the bike ran smoothly, no bucking, no high idle, no sticky throttle. Just like everyone else who had taken delivery of the Mk II '07 GTs that came with BMS-KP. It was also fortunate that BMW -NA had just come out with the "deal" on the new ecu's - that's supposed to last until the end of June!

As John Palamaro noted, the bike also seemed to run stronger, especially roll-on at higher rpms. Motorrad Magazine tested a K-R with the new '07 ecu and on the dyno it measured a full 10 hp more than than the same bike with the old ecu).

If you have an early '07 with any sort of fueling issue, I would emphatically encourage you to pursue with your dealer and with BMW NA the installation of the new ecu.

Folks, us early guys have an '07. Doesn't it make imminent sense that we should have the "delayed" ecu installed in our bikes. Are they trying to tell us that these later '07's are a different model year? An '07.5 maybe? Treating the whole bike like some later version of software? We have '07's; we should have the '07 BMS-KP ecu. These '07's should all have the same mechanical and electronic systems in my book.

By the way, you can't even get an "old" ecu if you wanted one. Why? A source has told me that all the old ecu's have been returned to Bosch!! That tells me something. In addition, thru the relevant bulletin, any repairs done to any GT involving the ecu "requires" that the replacement of the ecu will be accomplished with the new BMS - KP!

Just tell them you want a "fresh" ecu. You will get the new BMS - KP ecu, guarranteed!

If you have an '06 and choose (and this should be your decision, by the way) to replace the old ecu with the new one, you can but will not be eligible for the "deal" like the '07 owners who receive the new ecu before the end of June. The rationale seems to be that the '07 owners should have had this new ecu all along since it's the current model year.

By the way, the new system cases received at the same time as the new ecu also work as designed!

Miles


miles.....
reading your post has made me madder than ever
but, i'm glad you posted this
HOW can i PROVE that 9.1 should NOT have been loaded in my OLD ECU?

why did the shop computer ALLOW the upload into my ECU?

i will call them tomorrow
but..... i need ALL THE AMMUNITION I CAN GET

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i am very very angry right now

yes.......
it's only a bike
but:

1. i have 25K in that bike
2. i live an hour from the dealer
3. i will be EXTREMELY BUSY at work this week

miles......
i'm very happy for your post
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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Old 05-28-2007, 04:02 PM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
miles.....
HOW can i PROVE that 9.1 should NOT have been loaded in my OLD ECU?

why did the shop computer ALLOW the upload into my ECU?


<<the Konstandfahrruckeln disappeared with the 7 version. With the 8 version there are problems with the GT the fingers of it rather leaves. Which concerns the double-clutch acceptance or retarded gas resetting, I heard nothing negative with the 7 version still. >>

Greg,

Above is just one post on one of the German websites. You can read it for yourself. It's difficult finding and translating posts that indicate version 8 (or 9) should not be downloaded into the old ecu.

One of the unfortunate problems with "downloading" is that apparently any version, whether intended or not, can be "forced" into the old ecu.

My understanding, get this, is that it's now easier for techs to download the new "instructions" to the "new " ecu since Bosch has programmed the computer to "stop" if an error in the download is detected.

All this, though Greg, is "chatter" and "noise". Just lean on them hard and get the new ecu installed.

Remember, they "burned" the old ecu's in inventory and all the new '07's are traipsing into the dealership with the"new" BMS-KP.

And yes, I'm angry for all of us. They'll diddle around with the centerstand, but not the ecu issues?

The problem is that the issue only affects owners of the early bikes; sales won't be affected by a thread like this since anyone considering a new GT will know that the new ecu will be installed. It's up to the owner to put enough pressure on the dealer/distributor to get the new ecu.

Miles
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Old 05-28-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg, no intention to make you feel worse here, however, been there done that! Unfortunately, history proved that the only way I could remedy my high idle and complete engine failure issues was... take delivery on a new 07. My frustration culminated over a 3-4 month period of "we can not replicate the problem at the dealership". Intermittent and can not replicate. This was following many times having the dealership take my GT home overnight, 100 miles round trip. Extremely frustrating.

I recommend that you ENCOURAGE your dealer to involve BMWNA NOW. I believe you that your dealership is a great one... technically savey personnel and all. Mine, likewise one of the best around...However, if your problem persist, your gonna need BMWNA involved to remedy. Just my opinion...Wish you the best.
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Old 05-28-2007, 04:39 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

How many want to bolt up some carbs?............man this is crazy.....it is beyond understanding that we should be having all these problems this far into the game. After all, BMW cars do not suffer from these maladies
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller

If you have an '06 and choose (and this should be your decision, by the way) to replace the old ecu with the new one, you can but will not be eligible for the "deal" like the '07 owners who receive the new ecu before the end of June. The rationale seems to be that the '07 owners should have had this new ecu all along since it's the current model year.

Miles

So the New ECU will work in the 06 K1200GT. Thats good to know.
The High Idle is a safety issue.
I still encourage anyone who has had a idle problem with the new K's to file a complaint with the Government. Hello BMW NA are you reading this forum!!!
Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcooper
So the New ECU will work in the 06 K1200GT. Thats good to know.
The High Idle is a safety issue.
I still encourage anyone who has had a idle problem with the new K's to file a complaint with the Government. Hello BMW NA are you reading this forum!!!
Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS


I think they do..... they better if they don't.
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  #32  
Old 05-28-2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Just did another 2+ hour 85 mile ride with 9.1, total 175 miles. The bike runs better than it ever has. Idle at 1K, very little if any hesitation. It's still way to soon to say it's fixed though. The high idle usually happens after a long run at constant speed, and I haven't done that yet. Unfortunately I wont get to ride again till next weekend so stay tuned.
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
<<the Konstandfahrruckeln disappeared with the 7 version. With the 8 version there are problems with the GT the fingers of it rather leaves. Which concerns the double-clutch acceptance or retarded gas resetting, I heard nothing negative with the 7 version still. >>

Greg,

Above is just one post on one of the German websites. You can read it for yourself. It's difficult finding and translating posts that indicate version 8 (or 9) should not be downloaded into the old ecu.

One of the unfortunate problems with "downloading" is that apparently any version, whether intended or not, can be "forced" into the old ecu.

My understanding, get this, is that it's now easier for techs to download the new "instructions" to the "new " ecu since Bosch has programmed the computer to "stop" if an error in the download is detected.

All this, though Greg, is "chatter" and "noise". Just lean on them hard and get the new ecu installed.

Remember, they "burned" the old ecu's in inventory and all the new '07's are traipsing into the dealership with the"new" BMS-KP.

And yes, I'm angry for all of us. They'll diddle around with the centerstand, but not the ecu issues?


The problem is that the issue only affects owners of the early bikes; sales won't be affected by a thread like this since anyone considering a new GT will know that the new ecu will be installed. It's up to the owner to put enough pressure on the dealer/distributor to get the new ecu.

Miles

so many wonderful and thoughtful words here
i will call them at 0900 EDT tomorrow and let you know what they say

thanks again for all of your help and encouragement
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live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerdude
Greg, no intention to make you feel worse here, however, been there done that! Unfortunately, history proved that the only way I could remedy my high idle and complete engine failure issues was... take delivery on a new 07. My frustration culminated over a 3-4 month period of "we can not replicate the problem at the dealership". Intermittent and can not replicate. This was following many times having the dealership take my GT home overnight, 100 miles round trip. Extremely frustrating.

I recommend that you ENCOURAGE your dealer to involve BMWNA NOW. I believe you that your dealership is a great one... technically savey personnel and all. Mine, likewise one of the best around...However, if your problem persist, your gonna need BMWNA involved to remedy. Just my opinion...Wish you the best.

your post has made me feel better.... not worse
i will ask them to involve BMW NA tomorrow morning

thanks again
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
How many want to bolt up some carbs?............man this is crazy.....it is beyond understanding that we should be having all these problems this far into the game. After all, BMW cars do not suffer from these maladies

that certainly is true
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
I think they do..... they better if they don't.

they certainly do as one of our long-time members had JUST that done to HIS bike..... and, it is running fine
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:41 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
Just did another 2+ hour 85 mile ride with 9.1, total 175 miles. The bike runs better than it ever has. Idle at 1K, very little if any hesitation. It's still way to soon to say it's fixed though. The high idle usually happens after a long run at constant speed, and I haven't done that yet. Unfortunately I wont get to ride again till next weekend so stay tuned.
i appreciate the update, very much
continued good luck to you

have a great week
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
The high idle usually happens after a long run at constant speed, and I haven't done that yet. Unfortunately I wont get to ride again till next weekend so stay tuned.

My experience is the same. Used cruise control for about 100 miles on one trip, hi idle started for the first time. My theory is the software fails to reset cruise mapping, which is fairly lean.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Why not trade up to the GS Adventure that you were looking at Saturday?
-new bike with no problems.....maybe
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:27 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobanne
Why not trade up to the GS Adventure that you were looking at Saturday?
-new bike with no problems.....maybe

LOL
well...
i would love to ADD the GSA to my garage
but, it cannot replace the KGT to me.....

cruise control
UNlimited power.... and smoothness
the GSA will NEVER have that
but..... i'd LOVE to own one

maybe one day soon
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:24 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I purchased my 07 GT last week. I have put just over 1000 miles on it and noticed the high idle problem and the bucking. I thought it was simply a different feel from my R1200ST and my not being used to it. Then I found that if I slightly open the trottle it would stick anywhere from 1500 up 3000RPM then if I bumped it up to 5-6K it would drop back down.
You can really feel this when riding in traffic. DC is not a fun place to ride with an idle problem.
My question is this. How much are these "repairs" costing you all? I just spent 20K on a bike and I have to pay to get it fixed? Not too happy if that is the case.
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:16 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher
I purchased my 07 GT last week. I have put just over 1000 miles on it and noticed the high idle problem and the bucking. I thought it was simply a different feel from my R1200ST and my not being used to it. Then I found that if I slightly open the trottle it would stick anywhere from 1500 up 3000RPM then if I bumped it up to 5-6K it would drop back down.
You can really feel this when riding in traffic. DC is not a fun place to ride with an idle problem.
My question is this. How much are these "repairs" costing you all? I just spent 20K on a bike and I have to pay to get it fixed? Not too happy if that is the case.

this is 100% a warranty issue

TIME IS MONEY.....
but, actually money will NOT change hands

bring it in
it's dangerous
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  #43  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:18 AM
darkarcher darkarcher is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Thanks Clearwater. I am calling the dealer as I type.
I will update you on the progress.
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  #44  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:30 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher
Thanks Clearwater. I am calling the dealer as I type.
I will update you on the progress.

good luck
we look forward to your update

mention the ECU and the AIRBOX
those are the culprits.... i'm sure
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

i spent 1/2 hour on the phone with the service manager at my dealership
talked about it all.....
airbox
new ecu, etc...

he is fully aware of my position and the logical next step
they are coming to pick up my bike on their flatbed in less than 2 hours

i'll let you know what will happen
they already have a new airbox to put on today
i asked them to ride my bike.... AS MANY MILES AS THEY DESIRE (within reason) to determine IF the bike STILL needs that NEW ECU (which they do NOT have in stock, of course)
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  #46  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:55 AM
darkarcher darkarcher is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Spoke to my service manager. I told him that most likely I could show him the problem when I arrive because the bike must be hot to show the behavior. He said a bulletin came out on Tuesday concerning the airbox but it was issued for the K12 R and S. He said that the sticking throttle sounded like the same issue.
Hopefully we can get past this cause other than that the bike is really nice.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:40 PM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
they already have a new airbox to put on today
i asked them to ride my bike.... AS MANY MILES AS THEY DESIRE (within reason) to determine IF the bike STILL needs that NEW ECU (which they do NOT have in stock, of course)

Greg,

They have a new airbox, but they don't yet have the "new" BMS-KP ecu?

This little black box took two work days to air freight out to my dealer.

Even if the airbox fixes the high idle problem, I would suggest "insisting" on the new ecu. And, at the $250 deal that was available to me!

Here's the reason. Without the new ecu, you remain with a Mark I, early edition '07; but, with it installed you move up to the Mk II version of an '07 GT.

At the very least, you then have the option of easily installing asc for around $300 if you wish down the road.

Your bike w/o the Teves non-servo brake system is not an '07; likewise, imo, your bike without the BMS-KP ecu is "not" an '07.

This latest note, hopefully, is not putting undue pressure on you, but you are close having them pick up the bike today - have them "complete" the transformation of your bike to a "real" '07!

They do seem hell-bent on wiggling out of the very easy installlation of the new ecu for some reason - don't let them get away with it!

Miles
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:01 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
Greg,

They have a new airbox, but they don't yet have the "new" BMS-KP ecu?

This little black box took two work days to air freight out to my dealer.

Even if the airbox fixes the high idle problem, I would suggest "insisting" on the new ecu. And, at the $250 deal that was available to me!

Here's the reason. Without the new ecu, you remain with a Mark I, early edition '07; but, with it installed you move up to the Mk II version of an '07 GT.

At the very least, you then have the option of easily installing asc for around $300 if you wish down the road.

Your bike w/o the Teves non-servo brake system is not an '07; likewise, imo, your bike without the BMS-KP ecu is "not" an '07.

This latest note, hopefully, is not putting undue pressure on you, but you are close having them pick up the bike today - have them "complete" the transformation of your bike to a "real" '07!

They do seem hell-bent on wiggling out of the very easy installlation of the new ecu for some reason - don't let them get away with it!

Miles


Todd.... the service manager.... VERY WELL UNDERSTOOD MY POSITION
he knows that the AIRBOX could NOT have caused the problem since it occurred seconds after riding away, when the bike was STONE COLD

he HAS to check that first (so he says)
i told him repeatedly about the GERMAN website issues and now NON-existent OLD ECUs

i'll give them an opportunity to do "THE RIGHT THING"... all on their own
i'll let you know what happens

the bike is on its way to the dealer as we speak
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live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #49  
Old 05-29-2007, 03:40 PM
darkarcher darkarcher is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Spoke with the dealership at length. I was told that the ecm is a flash upgrade not the replacement of a module. Is that correct? It sounds like they plan on changing the airbox and upgrading the component software. If more needs to happen please let me know. I am bringing the bike in on the 13th of June.
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  #50  
Old 05-29-2007, 03:52 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher
Spoke with the dealership at length. I was told that the ecm is a flash upgrade not the replacement of a module. Is that correct? It sounds like they plan on changing the airbox and upgrading the component software. If more needs to happen please let me know. I am bringing the bike in on the 13th of June.

nope....
you need to demand the NEW ECU...
it's the flashing of the OLD ECU that is causing all the problems in the vast majority of bikes....
including mine

you know...
every time i start to feel guilty about demanding the NEW ECU...
i remember that... with all the farkling, i paid $25,000.00 of my hard-earned money... OTD.... for the bike 8 months ago...
the bike OUGHT to be 100% perfect... no question about it
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2007 K1200GT
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live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #51  
Old 05-29-2007, 04:00 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

LOL...I just put up the cash last week. So I haven't had to deal with it as long but it doesn't make it less annoying to me. I will push hard for this ecu. I may have to head down and have a face to face. Where do you take your bike for service. If I can get another dealer to admit that this is the problem then perhaps it will help my arguement.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:47 PM
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Question Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Do youz guys think I will have these problems?
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  #53  
Old 05-29-2007, 08:10 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher
LOL...I just put up the cash last week. So I haven't had to deal with it as long but it doesn't make it less annoying to me. I will push hard for this ecu. I may have to head down and have a face to face. Where do you take your bike for service. If I can get another dealer to admit that this is the problem then perhaps it will help my arguement.

i agree fully
but, most dealers already know of the problem.... but BMW is not going to be so quick to "give away' expensive ECUs..... in THEIR mind

i figure we'll ALL have to fight... bike-by-bike for this upgrade
i'm ready for the fight..... for the money spent.... i HAVE to be ready
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #54  
Old 05-29-2007, 08:11 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
Do youz guys think I will have these problems?

i wish i could say
personally, i feel that 100% of the K bikes..... GT, S, and R need the NEW ECU...... no questions asked
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:19 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg,
If needed would your tech be willing to contact mine ( not to astute) and explain what needs to be done?

I sure hope it does not come to that. The reason is the dealer is 4 hrs away. What is BMW's loaner policy. I get the feeling that a loaner bike is not promised>>>>>>>>>>
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by racegun
Greg,
If needed would your tech be willing to contact mine ( not to astute) and explain what needs to be done?

I sure hope it does not come to that. The reason is the dealer is 4 hrs away. What is BMW's loaner policy. I get the feeling that a loaner bike is not promised>>>>>>>>>>

i'm sure he would
they have my bike now
i did NOT get a call back from them this afternoon

it is possible that THEY won't do the "right thing" and deny my new ECU request as well

i'll keep you informed
i'm giving them EVERY OPPORTUNITY to make things right with my bike
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2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:29 PM
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Lightbulb Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I am confident the power of this wonderful forum will facillitate repairs!
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  #58  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:20 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
i wish i could say
personally, i feel that 100% of the K bikes..... GT, S, and R need the NEW ECU...... no questions asked
Nope, our 2007 S (October build date) is perfect. 9500 miles, hot starts (99 in Big Bend), cold starts in West Virginai (37º and raining), alledgedly doing tripple digits and staying as smooth as a baby's butt, smooth idle, wonderful sound at startup that causes a every time I crank it, and 45 mpg 2-up.

Not trying to be argumenative, just trying to instill some hope. The 2007 K1200S really is absolutely positively the most comfortable, best handleing, most FUN bike I've ever owned !!!! Even if it is eating tires like candy.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:56 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Nope, our 2007 S (October build date) is perfect. 9500 miles, hot starts (99 in Big Bend), cold starts in West Virginai (37º and raining), alledgedly doing tripple digits and staying as smooth as a baby's butt, smooth idle, wonderful sound at startup that causes a every time I crank it, and 45 mpg 2-up.

Not trying to be argumenative, just trying to instill some hope. The 2007 K1200S really is absolutely positively the most comfortable, best handleing, most FUN bike I've ever owned !!!! Even if it is eating tires like candy.

i like the hope you offer
my bike is at the dealer now
i'll let you know what they decide to do
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2007 K1200GT
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live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #60  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:41 AM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Nope, our 2007 S (October build date) is perfect. 9500 miles, hot starts (99 in Big Bend), cold starts in West Virginai (37º and raining), alledgedly doing tripple digits and staying as smooth as a baby's butt, smooth idle, wonderful sound at startup that causes a every time I crank it, and 45 mpg 2-up.

Not trying to be argumenative, just trying to instill some hope. The 2007 K1200S really is absolutely positively the most comfortable, best handleing, most FUN bike I've ever owned !!!! Even if it is eating tires like candy.

This needs to be clarified.

I have both an 05 K-S and an early build date '07 GT. The '05 K-S operates perfectliy with the "old", original ecu and has just one software update done more than a year ago. It's perfect.

My early '07 GT has had a whole series of software updates and while one problem was addressed, another popped and got entirely rotten when 8.1 was downloaded into the original ecu.

Hey, Tim, I'm the same guy! It's what really kept BMW from saying I was in any way a "disgruntled" customer!

The engine in the GT is different in many respects leading off with different cams and is tuned completely different and makes torque at a different rpm with 15 fewer hp than the K-S/R. IMO, attempting to match these characteristics with an ecu developed for the original K-S was a big mistake. It just didn't take.

8.1, when it first came out, was clearly only to be used for the K-S/R, not the GT. By that time BMW had addressed the ecu issue for the GT and had Bosch develop the new BMS-KP for the GT. There was some baloney that it was developed to accept asc. Well, that begs the question; how come the old ecu couldn't accept asc? They knew well before the launch of the GT that asc would be an option on the GT. And here's the clincher - asc? It's not available on the K-S/R.

Finally, there's a "Limited Time Offer" to upgrade "just" GTs to the new ecu! Why not the K-S/R? There is some blather the limited time offer is for those "thinking" about retrofitting asc, but the new ecu was installed in my bike w/o also adding asc. And, knock wood, it fixed the high idle and what I refer to as BBS (or should that be just plain BMW B.S.?) BBS = Bucking Bronco Syndrome.

Miles
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