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  #301  
Old 12-31-2014, 03:32 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Have read the link now posted by Bob, got it now, the system works by generating a vacuum and replacing it with the coolant, hence no air, I cannot agree with Bob on the cam chain tensioner thread but this is good....life would be boring though if we all agreed lol
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  #302  
Old 01-01-2015, 07:06 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by billywhizzz
Hello Armin, I am English and my English is terrible so don't worry about yours, certainly better than my German.

How did you get the air out of the cooling system? Usually running a bike with the radiator cap off does the trick but everyone seems nervous on the K12/13, probably because of the position of the water pump.

Shaun

Hello, it is no problem to get the air out of the system without special tools.
After i replace the chain, i mount all parts of the cooling system, i filled up the cooler by way of the cooler cap. After that i remove the little black screw at the left side, which is in the hosepipe near the water pump. Then my 2 sons hold the bike in a angle of 30 to the right side. So the air goes to the highest point. i have filled the system with a medical syringe for horses :-) . After that they raise up the bike. I repeat this 3 times. Before the last filling process i let the motor run under angle of 30 for a moment. Between the filling processes i open the little screw of the water pump to let the air out of the pump. I make this kind of repair 2 times in the last 2 years, and it works perfect. I have no air in the system and the cooling system does not get to hot.

Fyi: after the 30000km inspection, i have made in a BMW workshop i had less water in the cooling system, and they normally work with this vacuum tool, but i think some workers dont know how to handle it. Since this experience i fix it myself.

I hope my description is understandable.
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  #303  
Old 01-01-2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by armin@k40
Hello, it is no problem to get the air out of the system without special tools.
After i replace the chain, i mount all parts of the cooling system, i filled up the cooler by

Fyi: after the 30000km inspection, i have made in a BMW workshop i had less water in the cooling system, and they normally work with this vacuum tool, but i think some workers dont know how to handle it. Since this experience i fix it myself.

I hope my description is understandable.

Excellent description, my experience with some dealers (not all) is their mechanics know less than me which is not what you pay for, thankfully there are exceptions, I try to opt for the approved service centre rather than a main dealer, not sure if BMW approve service centres but Ducati do and the guy who looks after my Diavel knows his stuff, if he is approved to service a Desmosedici he must.
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  #304  
Old 02-22-2015, 10:12 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

So as Spring is sort of approaching in the UK I though I had better get my K13 fully rebuilt and ready for the road.

I started the bike up today and whilst the engine has always been mechanically quiet it did have that annoying vibey rattle around 3500 rpm, suffice to say its gone and am not really sure what has fixed it as I have done several mods at once, namely:

Changed the thrust washer as described in this thread.
Tensioned the oil pump drive chain.
Fitted a manual cam chain tensioner.
Fitted a new can and remapped the ECU.

Shaun
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  #305  
Old 04-03-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I took my KS out for local riding since mercury showed 40 degrees outside.
I now hear more exhaust sound than engine rattles and complaints from wife and kids.
Could be my ears or my mods

Riding around town I realized how minimal the vibrations are , They have almost disappeared.
Mods included tightening of oil pump chain drive and swapping of washer with a better engineered one.

Will go out for some highway ride as soon as the threat of rain is over.
So far , very gooood.
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  #306  
Old 06-14-2015, 09:52 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I have some update info ,
My bike has 13600 miles now from 700 when the washer was installed,
I got one of the precision washers from Aashu. about 9 months ago.

Yesterday I put it in ,
NOTE following my post 119 of this thread.

I used the same tools to RnR the small washer I made,
and then installed the new washer.

I did have to use some fine grit paper to open the hole in the washer so it slid onto the shaft, this took about 4 mins to do.

While I had the clutch cover off, I inspected the oil pump chain and it is still looking good.
My concern was that prior to adjusting the chain it was rubbing on the forward run against the engine case.

I had adjusted the chain so the front run of the chain has a back and forth of about 8 mm when I had added the washer,
so after these miles the oil drive chain is still where it was adjusted to.
So this is good to go!

Also I had added an APE timing chain mechanical tensioner,.

When these tensioners are new it is difficult to judge the amount of tension being placed on the chain since the O rings inside the units are tight.

After running in the unit, the tensioner is easy to adjust and made easier with the clutch cover off.
I had been hearing some valve related noise , since turning 12K miles.
I am glad i had checked the timing chain as it was a bit loose on the crank gear, so i adjusted it less than a full turn on the tensioner and the amount of play is reduced .
I also have the jump guard installed.

I also used my original clutch cover bolts and from my calculations the cover has been off 4 times, so have these bolts and the gasket.

Anyway for fitting the new washer it was smeared with some grease then,
I tied a thread around it while fishing it into position,
then holding it with a magnet I removed the thread and then slid the washer into position , the washer swap operation took less than 10 mins.

The bike runs great the valve train noises are gone the washer noises are also gone,
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  #307  
Old 06-23-2015, 05:51 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by uno
Hi everyone,

Is the noise you're talking about something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgGtpP-piJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1OaPjbuGFg

I currently have the side off a 1200R. Investigating the owners complaint about the noise in the top one of the two links above. Owner also has vibration while riding and the clutch shudders as you take off from rest. Here's the thread here. http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=51004

First place I'm checking is the clutch basket internals. And all I can say is its full of possible explanation's for this noise. Worn out inside due to poor materials used and full of rust. Yes its full of rust due to condensation and no oil reaching its bearings. Conclusion in a week or so when re-engineered basket is back in the bike after some miles.

I also re-engineered a clutch basket to address the noise in the second link above. A 50,000 mile GT model. Basket in that was a disgrace.

I'm not the first to find this in the clutch baskets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemmer
well, we were tired of BMW sending us from wall to wall.
We found a report about vibration problems on the k1300s. It seems that the design of the clutch is rubbish.
We bought a brand new clutch and replaced it, this eliminated 75% of the vibrations. We took the origional clutch a part and it was full with play, corroded and rusted on the slide fittings of the outer drive bowl. The springs of the anti-torsional clutch were grinded with some flat spots after 4500 km.
Search in google for Ricardo BMW K1300s and find out the truth and chase your dealer down.

This thread about noise from the starter clutch free-wheel and washer is great information and will be where I concentrate next if not solved by the clutch investigation I'm doing. Puzzle though - why can a washer that's standing still and rubbing against (no not rubbing but just touching) a gear that's standing still make noise that you can hear while riding? The washer and both the gears it touches only move when the starter motor is running. Is the noise perhaps the starter clutch running dry and passing its vibrations out to the engine case via the washer and starter motor idle gears. The starter clutch is just a needle roller bearing without load on it when the engine is running.

Here's the washer. Labelling is wrong. The item marked "alternator freewheel" is the starter clutch freewheel. Only the two gears on the right (narrow and one wide) are running when the engine runs. The whole lot run when the starter motor is used.
http://www.i-bmw.com/attachment.php?...9&d=1419786719
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  #308  
Old 06-23-2015, 06:25 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

what makes the noise is that the ID of the washer installed is a little bit too big,
this then lets the washer be able to rock on the shaft,
at certain RPM the vibration frequency will cause it to rock and make a ringing noise,
usually felt on deceleration from about 4500 to 2800 RPM
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  #309  
Old 06-23-2015, 12:38 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
what makes the noise is that the ID of the washer installed is a little bit too big,
this then lets the washer be able to rock on the shaft,
at certain RPM the vibration frequency will cause it to rock and make a ringing noise,
usually felt on deceleration from about 4500 to 2800 RPM

Thanks and yes I get that but the gears are only running when the starter motor runs? Washer feels to be a perfect fit on the shaft of K1200R I have on the bench here. Not going to remove it until I proved one item at a time. Clutch basket for now.
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  #310  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:49 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Could someone post the sound file before and after the washer replacement please? I have a "whistling"(for a lack of better word) coming out from the engine on low revs in my 2015 ks. If before not available please post the after sound, so I might be able to compare to mine. On another note, I remember that a few weeks after I bought the bike, I was in heavy traffic( I think my high light was on, I couldn't start the engine and thought the battery died. I called my dealer for help and went to grab something to eat. When i came back after 15 min, the bike started with no issues. Since then, I notice that when the bike runs hot, the battery seems to have very little power to restart the engine. Any ideas?
Gabriel
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  #311  
Old 06-29-2015, 03:26 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Gabriel, that's the hot start issue.
Most recently discussed in http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=53491

The sound the washer makes is excactly what you can expect from a large thin vibrating steel ring that is mounted on a shaft that is a tad too small. More of a tinkling than whistling.

The whistling you hear is probably the whining of the meshing crank-clutch gears or the starter gears, perhaps even the balancing shafts. There's a lot going on behind the clutch cover.
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  #312  
Old 06-29-2015, 08:17 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

the ringing the washer makes will be most evident when letting off the throttle,
from about 4200 RPM down to 2800 RPM.
It is a rattling ringing type of noise.

The meshing of the clutch drive has a sprung ring gear this will make a whine whistle sound

When the clutch cover comes off make sure you also check the slack on the oil pump drive chain,
most have found the chain more loose.

Thus it will rub on the forward run of the engine case.

The solution is to tighten the chain so you have about 7mm to 8MM of front to back play in the forward run of the chain.
YOU dont need to remove the clutch basket to adjust the oil pump chain.

Also while the clutch cover is off make sure the jump guard is fitted to the crank drive gear.

If you like, order an APE mechanical chain tensioner to replace the oil driven factory unit, with the cover off its easy to adjust, and see how the part works.

You can also reuse the gasket and the cover bolts,
to tighten the bolts make them snug then about 40 degrees more turn.
your calibrated hand will tell you when the bolts stretching.

NOTE the WSM says to replace these bolts when they are removed .
It is about 40.00 for new bolts,
I have had my cover off 5 times the factory bolts are still working fine as is the gasket.

NOTE when refitting the cover make sure the little ball bearing in the clutch slave has the flat surface pointing to the clutch basket center pin,
you will see this ball turn so a dab of thick grease will hold it in position be fore refitting the cover.

As previously mentioned there is a starter wire upgrade for the 1300S, tell the dealer its hard to start when hot ,
then they will install it free of charge.

NOTE it requires tank removal and consists of a thicker positive wire to the starter and relay swap
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  #313  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
the ringing the washer makes will be most evident when letting off the throttle,
from about 4200 RPM down to 2800 RPM.
It is a rattling ringing type of noise.

The meshing of the clutch drive has a sprung ring gear this will make a whine whistle sound

When the clutch cover comes off make sure you also check the slack on the oil pump drive chain,
most have found the chain more loose.

Thus it will rub on the forward run of the engine case.

The solution is to tighten the chain so you have about 7mm to 8MM of front to back play in the forward run of the chain.
YOU dont need to remove the clutch basket to adjust the oil pump chain.

Also while the clutch cover is off make sure the jump guard is fitted to the crank drive gear.

If you like, order an APE mechanical chain tensioner to replace the oil driven factory unit, with the cover off its easy to adjust, and see how the part works.

You can also reuse the gasket and the cover bolts,
to tighten the bolts make them snug then about 40 degrees more turn.
your calibrated hand will tell you when the bolts stretching.

NOTE the WSM says to replace these bolts when they are removed .
It is about 40.00 for new bolts,
I have had my cover off 5 times the factory bolts are still working fine as is the gasket.

NOTE when refitting the cover make sure the little ball bearing in the clutch slave has the flat surface pointing to the clutch basket center pin,
you will see this ball turn so a dab of thick grease will hold it in position be fore refitting the cover.

As previously mentioned there is a starter wire upgrade for the 1300S, tell the dealer its hard to start when hot ,
then they will install it free of charge.

NOTE it requires tank removal and consists of a thicker positive wire to the starter and relay swap

Stan, most of your post is a bit too technical for me. But I'm sure my dealer at Bmw of Manhattan will. Would what you are telling reduce/eliminate that whistle sound?
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  #314  
Old 06-30-2015, 12:51 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

first you need to identify what I told you about the noise in the beginning of my post ,
if thats not what your hearing then something else is making the noise,
and it could be the mesh gears on the clutch basket and thats a normal noise,

Still the oil pump drive chain should be checked as most are more loose ,
mine was rubbing against the forward engine case.
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  #315  
Old 09-04-2015, 06:15 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Thought I would add to this thread from my K1300r experience. My distances are in kilometres!
Yes there was a definite engine buzz between 3000 - 4000rpm when I got the bike, more on deceleration. I had read about it here, but didn't really pick it up during the test rides.
I have now done 7,500km, 85% commuting and the rest some weekend blasts/cruize.
I just got back from a 500km ride to the hunter valley, most of it on the freeway (I think you ************************s call it the slab?) and I did the first round of taking pillions during my stay in the hunter valley, giving 2 aunties and the mother-in-law a nice little joy ride each.
On the way back I have finally noticed how much the engine noise has settled down, and how beautifully smooth this bike is on the freeway at 110km/h in 6th.
Anyway, I haven't done anything to get rid of the noise except keep riding, but I must say after a few hell rides, some freeway, and some 2 up riding, as well as the 7,500 total Km's, I think that contributed to a smoother sounding and running motor.
Hope this is positive info for a potential k1300r or k1300s buyer, or a disheartened new owner who is pissed off with the noise.

Cheers
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G'day Mat,

I'm having the same issue with my K13r - bought brand new and noticed the buzz/ rattle from about 300km on. Its at 4700km now and still very loud buzzing on decel when hot from 4k to 3k rpm. This is very audible even over my akrapovic system. It's quite off-putting and affecting the way I manage the throttle.

Your post here (and I think elsewhere you've posted on the break-in of the k13 engine) gives me some hope but like many of the guys on here I've gone between BMW dealer and also independent bmw master mechanic (who was very helpful being a former head mechanic at BMW Auto Classic here in Perth) but to no avail.

Did you buy brand new? When you did notice the noise was it really loud or mild? I'm just trying to gauge against my own experience as the issue seems to be more prevalent for some than others.

I love the bike so much otherwise but I have days when I seriously consider trading it in because it affects my riding experience

Cheers - Peter
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  #316  
Old 09-04-2015, 11:38 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
G'day Mat,

I'm having the same issue with my K13r - bought brand new and noticed the buzz/ rattle from about 300km on. Its at 4700km now and still very loud buzzing on decel when hot from 4k to 3k rpm. This is very audible even over my akrapovic system. It's quite off-putting and affecting the way I manage the throttle.

Your post here (and I think elsewhere you've posted on the break-in of the k13 engine) gives me some hope but like many of the guys on here I've gone between BMW dealer and also independent bmw master mechanic (who was very helpful being a former head mechanic at BMW Auto Classic here in Perth) but to no avail.

Did you buy brand new? When you did notice the noise was it really loud or mild? I'm just trying to gauge against my own experience as the issue seems to be more prevalent for some than others.

I love the bike so much otherwise but I have days when I seriously consider trading it in because it affects my riding experience

Cheers - Peter

Hey Peter, I'm at 34,000km now on my 2013 K1300R, there is zero rattle now.
Yes the noise was quite loud when I got the bike.
I bought an ex-demo bike with 690km on it, so I'm guessing my bike had a pretty hard/punishing run-in.... Then it met me.......
I do a lot of commuting to work, but when I get the chance of on a day ride, I give it heaps, I am notorious for my redline acceleration tests on selected straights in the middle of nowhere, not to mention some spirited riding in inbetween. My point is a do feel the harder revs I have given the bike have contributed to the settling down of the engine noise, even though I have not technical dada to back this up.
I never changed my riding to accommodate the noise, and you shouldn't either, it takes a lot of Km's to get to know this bike well, after about 20,000km your really going to be able to throw it about. And it's better and better the more you ride it.
Perservere mate, forget about the noise and just have some fun, it will get better, I hope it does.
I will send you my phone number, feel free to call and talk about it if you want.


Cheers
Kiwimat
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  #317  
Old 09-05-2015, 02:46 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

When I posted my note saying my vibration had gone I hadn't really done enough miles, it is still there but much reduced and it doesn't bother me apart from a slight vibration through bars which I have sorted with heavier bar end weights. Having done the washer mod am not convinced this is the real source of the noise, if so I am sure BMW would have sorted this as its a cheap mod, it's also been mentioned its the hydraulic cam chain tensioner backing off , this cannot be so otherwise serious engine damage would occur. The natural frequency of some of the components is probably too close and this is what causes the resonance. Anyway I am just speculating but what I do know its a minor flaw on a top bike and it won't cause any grief. I only notice it when I am reminded lol
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  #318  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:00 PM
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Talking Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Hey Peter, I'm at 34,000km now on my 2013 K1300R, there is zero rattle now.
Yes the noise was quite loud when I got the bike.
I bought an ex-demo bike with 690km on it, so I'm guessing my bike had a pretty hard/punishing run-in.... Then it met me.......
I do a lot of commuting to work, but when I get the chance of on a day ride, I give it heaps, I am notorious for my redline acceleration tests on selected straights in the middle of nowhere, not to mention some spirited riding in inbetween. My point is a do feel the harder revs I have given the bike have contributed to the settling down of the engine noise, even though I have not technical dada to back this up.
I never changed my riding to accommodate the noise, and you shouldn't either, it takes a lot of Km's to get to know this bike well, after about 20,000km your really going to be able to throw it about. And it's better and better the more you ride it.
Perservere mate, forget about the noise and just have some fun, it will get better, I hope it does.
I will send you my phone number, feel free to call and talk about it if you want.


Cheers
Kiwimat

Cheers Mat - admittedly I am in early stages of my relationship with the beast and I try to stick to the philosophy of small things bothering small minds. It is reassuring to hear that time and use have helped to reduce (dare I say eliminate) the issue. My riding habits are similar in that I do commute mostly but by the sounds of it I need to push the motor a bit harder on more secluded roads, which as I become more comfortable with the bike I'm more than happy to do
Cheers for the PM - I'll give you a shout when I get a chance
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  #319  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:08 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by billywhizzz
When I posted my note saying my vibration had gone I hadn't really done enough miles, it is still there but much reduced and it doesn't bother me apart from a slight vibration through bars which I have sorted with heavier bar end weights. Having done the washer mod am not convinced this is the real source of the noise, if so I am sure BMW would have sorted this as its a cheap mod, it's also been mentioned its the hydraulic cam chain tensioner backing off , this cannot be so otherwise serious engine damage would occur. The natural frequency of some of the components is probably too close and this is what causes the resonance. Anyway I am just speculating but what I do know its a minor flaw on a top bike and it won't cause any grief. I only notice it when I am reminded lol

The bar end weights sound like a good investment - although as long as that buzz quietens down I'd be very pleased. Just gotta get out there and put some kms on it!

I did the washer mod and made zero difference - in fact looking at the dimensions of the original washer I had the ones I had specially machined were identical. This would suggest BMW did something about it as suggested earlier in the thread - post 2012 models I think ?

I've also considered fuel remapping but not sure this is the answer and was told a power commander would void my warranty. Maybe down the road will try this anyway but hoping issue will have settled down by then. To Mat's point above and yours I'll just try not to let it bother me though on some days it no doubt still will
Cheers for the input
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  #320  
Old 09-06-2015, 12:26 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I purchased a 2011 new and it had all the irritating issues described. I didn't ride it that often due a couple of medical issues so I sold it. I missed the cycle and the medical problems are resolved so I recently bought a 2013 with about 1900 miles on it. There is a world of difference in the two cycles. Minimal noise, less vibrations, less drive train lash, and handles better. The last, I suspect, is the difference in the tires. I would not assume that design improvements were made. But, for the lack of a better explanation and with tongue-in-cheek, it seems that what engineers refer to as "error stacking" went in my favor this time. Error stacking is when all the plus or minus tolerances in a particular assembly happen to go mostly to the plus or to the minus making the assembly as a whole out of tolerance.
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  #321  
Old 11-15-2015, 06:12 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

In common with many here it seems, I too have noticed the same issues at around 3500. It's not to an especially annoying degree, so I'll live with that for now. What I do have that is quite irritating is something that sounds like some kind of resonance in the plastics at almost exactly 5000rpm - starts fractionally below and disappears completely fractionally after, but I'm damned if I can spot what it is. I've checked all the bolts, clips, fasteners I can find to no avail and nothing seems loose. I can't feel any vibration of much note at those revs either, but it does seem exceptionally loud. Anyone else had this or any thought's where I might investigate further?

Ta
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  #322  
Old 01-02-2016, 07:16 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by juuce
I have a new 2013 k1300r and I have this same crappy buzzing vibration between 3000-4000.
On an otherwise flawless bike, this is a truly annoying.
Currently in negotiation with the dealership who are "asking for permission" from the mothership to do some fixes.

They did however admit they know of the problem, but say they "all make that noise" - what a crock. And that " it doesn't do any harm".
I said to them it does me plenty of harm spending so much cash and having to listen to that sound.

Gave an analogy - "It sort of like having a new supermodel girlfriend, truly sublime - BUT you find out she has herpes... In the big scheme of things it doesn't affect her performance and it certainly wont kill her - BUT it is always on you mind when you are riding and it will reduce the enjoyment!

I'll give an update when I have one.
On the bike or the girlfriend😅
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  #323  
Old 01-02-2016, 10:38 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Please note ,the one thing not mentioned here is to also inspect the oil pump drive chain,
it seems that they all are set loose and thus the chain can rub the case on the forward run of the chain,

If the chain is rubbing then you will see small grinding marks on the case.

That said I adjusted mine till it had about 7 to 8mm of front to back play on the front run of the chain.
The factory setting procedure is very complicated and requires clutch drum removal,
and from what I can see completely unnecessary.
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  #324  
Old 01-26-2016, 08:49 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi,

Is there any way now, to obtain the magic wash for the starter?
I don't know any company to make it...

thanks.

Bruno
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  #325  
Old 09-09-2016, 09:00 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I have an 09 K1300GT 140.000kms with severe vibration at 4500 rpm and a surging rattle clatter when cruising, so bad I'm afraid something is going to come apart. I have been following all the talk on different forums about causes. From washer and the stater for and oil pump chain adjustment to clutch basket springs. I have not found anything that says the cure is "X". Maybe I missed it. If so please direct me to the cure. Here is what I know. The oil pump chain was so loose it could have fallen off. At 100,000kms I adjusted it. That made a world of difference, but as miles accumulated there was a heavy thumping vibration which is what I hear now. The clutch now engages at the very end of the release but no slippage. I have pull the clutch with apart and the clutch basket rattles loudly when shaken. The 4 springs are an 1/8" too short to fill the space in the basket. There is no wear on any other parts I can see. The oil pump chain is the same as when I set it the first time. I went to the dealer to make sure the clutch push rod is the same as what is in mine. The dealer says there is a new push rod that just fits into the release bearing and does not enter into the input shaft of the transmission. I've check valve clearances, they'er all in spec. It's not valve train noise. I am ordering new springs and rivets as suggested by some one on this forum. I don't know if this is a cure or not. I've ordered a new push rod too.
Can anyone tell me what Can be done to fix this problem other than buy $3,000.00 worth of BMW clutch parts to put it back to new condition. I don't see a need to replace hard part that don't wear to fix a noise like loose pieces.
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  #326  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:41 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Am I right in saying this is the washer?
Image instruction extracted from BMW RepRom...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rattle K1300s.JPG (108.5 KB, 53 views)
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  #327  
Old 08-29-2017, 02:56 AM
Katsumoto Katsumoto is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I thought that the cam chain tensioner issue was only on the K1200s...and resolved through redesign on the K13s?
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:45 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I did this work on my K last week. Had a friend make up the smaller version of the washer. I actually found it really difficult to do ... here are my experiences;

1) The clutch basket appears to have two gear rings .. the back one is spring loaded and this made it damn difficult on my bike to remove - I had to use a lever between the clutch basket gear sets to hold them in line (not easy) before I could persuade the clutch basket to come off.

2) I made the mistake of also reading about the drying out of the clutch plates so I stripped those down and inspected and then found it difficult to get the plates back in and the pressure plate centered ... not the easiest clutch to work on IMHO. If I'd have done this on my Kwacker ... I'd have been done inside an hour.... the K took b 4 hours.

3) The clutch cover bolts .... I had to take my cover off twice due to misalignment issue with the clutch plates .... on second fitment, all seemed good with the clutch, but two bolts snapped off. Trip to dealer, new bolts fitted.

4) No special tools used - the idle shaft came out with a piece of wire and a hook on the end.

5) The clutch cover gasket .... I re-used mine and no issues with oil leaks so far.

6) Didn't' remove starter motor, or the clutch slave, just suspended the clutch cover out of the way being careful not to over stress the clutch MC pipe.

7) Rattle gun made light work of the clutch centre bolt, came off two attempts, and my compressor is not very powerful.

8) Did all this with bike on side stand, not center stand to reduce oil loss .. but still had to put in 200 ML top up when finished.

Result is that the annoying buzzing rattle / vibration on throttle off has now gone, but I do still feel some vibration. I think, as Tarmac posted earlier in this thread, the cause of the vibration persists, just the amplification by the washer is reduced to almost zero. Pleased I did it, but not ever looking forward to removing the clutch basket again in the future.

Thanks to Tarmac and other for info in this thread.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:57 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Just bought a 2010 k1300S last week, and wondered why I had an intermittent rattle going on @3K revs in the 100 miles I've done on it. Looks like it's this issue. Oh well. Pity I'm not an Engineer who can fix it by myself. S*it happens.
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  #330  
Old 11-06-2017, 07:17 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

the upside is its just noise nothing is going to fall apart .
BUT a smaller tolerance washer will make the noise go away
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  #331  
Old 11-21-2017, 04:27 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Hi Cooter,

Regarding the washer, I found one that fit perfectly at 'Ace Hardware'. It was marked as a 3/8" steel washer. Here is some additional info:

Shaft Diameter: 9.77 mm
Gear Inner Diameter: 9.80 mm
Original Washer Inner Diameter: 10.20 mm
Original Washer Outer Diameter: 40.00 mm
Original Washer Thickness: 1.47mm
Replacement Washer Inner Diameter: 9.80mm
Replacement Washer Outer Diameter: 16.00mm
Replacement Washer Thickness: 1.60mm

Regarding the special puller, I ordered the following parts from Snap On...
1 - CG41-14 - Collet $39.05
2 - CG250-8A - Shaft $53.9
3 - CG250-9 - Hammer $49
4 - CG41-11 - Rod $21.80

If you prefer you can order the complete puller set for a mere $1302.35...
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=10158&group_ID=2351&store=sn apon-store&dir=catalog

This is what it looks like...


All this noise is actually caused because the primary gear "wobble" that rattles the end float on that gear and is the main cause of the vibration that afflicts these bikes, when the wobble is eliminated it eliminates LOTS of rattles.
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  #332  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:59 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

^^^^ not true, the washer that comes in the bike on that idler shaft is whats making the noise,
after I replaced the washer in my bike, the noise stopped.

I also will add that the oil pump chain needs to be tightened,
and if left loose results in the chain rubbing inside the case on the forward side of its run.

the factory procedure for oil pump chain adjustment is very complicated and really not necessary,
use your good judgment to get it tightened to 7 to 8mm play
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  #333  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:08 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
^^^^ not true, the washer that comes in the bike on that idler shaft is whats making the noise,
after I replaced the washer in my bike, the noise stopped.

I also will add that the oil pump chain needs to be tightened,
and if left loose results in the chain rubbing inside the case on the forward side of its run.

the factory procedure for oil pump chain adjustment is very complicated and really not necessary,
use your good judgment to get it tightened to 7 to 8mm play

Yep, making a thicker washer stops the rattle but the cause is the primary gear oscillating and irritating that end float, it's prevention not a cure😎
Regarding the oil pump chain, what looks like perfect chain adjustment when you are doing it is quite often tight when the engine is real hot as all the aluminium expands and tightens things up no end, I had mine apart after an hour and a halfs hard use to pull the clutch apart and found the chain tight so reset it hot with just a tiny amount of slack, when cold i looked a bit too loose.
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  #334  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:11 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thanks to Tarmac for his clear and detailed explanation addressing the vibration issue. These forums can distort the seriousness of some issues. Vagueness can lead to consternation that something is universal, inevitable and beyond understanding. Not knowing is the monster under the bed. But these forums also offer those with the knowledge and approach that can open up a problem to a solution. The dedication to a solution is impressive when seen next to manufacturers response.
My challenge is I cant see the photos Tarmac included with his posting. Can I access these?
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:32 AM
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Why some have problems, others few?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
I purchased a 2011 new and it had all the irritating issues described. I didn't ride it that often due a couple of medical issues so I sold it. I missed the cycle and the medical problems are resolved so I recently bought a 2013 with about 1900 miles on it. There is a world of difference in the two cycles. Minimal noise, less vibrations, less drive train lash, and handles better. The last, I suspect, is the difference in the tires. I would not assume that design improvements were made. But, for the lack of a better explanation and with tongue-in-cheek, it seems that what engineers refer to as "error stacking" went in my favor this time. Error stacking is when all the plus or minus tolerances in a particular assembly happen to go mostly to the plus or to the minus making the assembly as a whole out of tolerance.

This I thought is the most realistic and clear explanation about why there is such a range of issues with some bikes and little with others, the inconsistency. For those scanning the subjects on this forum, this can stand alone. I thank WPV for adding to my understanding and vocabulary - Error Stacking. I now suspect the engineers are not fully at fault. Finer tolerances mean higher cost to produce. The price point and bottom line may have contributed to the final specked tolerances. This also seems to explain why some members have changed x and seen little change. Even bringing a particular part back to speck is t enough to change the whole accumulation of + or - speck.
Thanks again to WPV.
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