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  #1  
Old 05-30-2017, 08:54 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Will I ever find true love? Does anyone make a sanding kit to erase the shame?

washed bike tonight ma the brake dust is wicked. All shiny so pretty.
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  #2  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:30 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Ride your own ride and live to ride another day. You'll get there.
Sign up for a track school, maybe California Superbike School.

http://superbikeschool.com
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:36 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I agree with jargon 100%!!! Ride your ride it is what it is!! Nobody cares how wide your chicken stripes are!! Live to ride another day is all that matters. I know I can care less what mine are.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:38 PM
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Without picture, I'm inclined not to believe...
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:43 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Trust your tires, Grasshopper...
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:53 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Send it to me for a week
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2017, 01:06 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Send it to me for a week

or me for 2 curves
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  #8  
Old 05-31-2017, 03:52 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Just find a road with plenty of bends.
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2017, 05:48 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Do a track day.

Or......

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Old 05-31-2017, 06:57 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Chicken strips are not so bad, unless you live somewhere like this.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:45 AM
eric eric is offline
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
Chicken strips are not so bad, unless you live somewhere like this.
Looks familiar...Rt 9 or 74A?
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Watch "Twist of the Wrist 2" while it's still on YouTube (it disappeared last year, right around the time the California Superbike School got into full swing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OQF7tygAi0

Seeya
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:28 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Not chicken strips...they are safety margins. Just enjoy your ride. I can not say enough good about California Super Bike School. Take the one day, sessions 1 & 2. Use their bike. You will never learn so much in your entire life of riding on your own. And you will be safer.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:32 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric
Looks familiar...Rt 9 or 74A?
74A, 3 miles from Pirate's Lair and about 20 from our NC home. We'll be back in 25 months, 6 days.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2017, 05:33 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Send it to me for a week


He wouldn't be able to get the mud off it!
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:51 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Have viewed a twist of the wrist and tried to read the books. The superbike school would be a lovely thing to do. Who would allow mud on their bike? Shocking.
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:20 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Just tell your Riding Buddies you're saving the edges of the Tire for the "really good stuff".

Like you, I had fairly wide chicken strips until I put on a set of Riser Plates and simultaneously ditched the Metzeler Sportec M3s for a set of Pirelli Angel GTs. I'm using almost all of the rear Tire profile now and couldn't be more pleased with the improved handling.
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2017, 06:36 PM
jb62 jb62 is offline
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Chicken strips are to my mind close to meaningless. It's pretty easy to get them down to almost nothing if you care to corner with the most appalling technique - lean the bike one way while you lean your body the other for instance. On the other hand, you can beat the pants off the competition cornering on "normal" roads away from the track without needing anything like full lean if your technique is good.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:10 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb62
Chicken strips are to my mind close to meaningless. It's pretty easy to get them down to almost nothing if you care to corner with the most appalling technique - lean the bike one way while you lean your body the other for instance. .

Amen to that.

My Yorkshire wet weather technique involves climbing off the seat onto one foot-peg, and leaving the bike completely vertical.
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcchoc
Amen to that.

My Yorkshire wet weather technique involves climbing off the seat onto one foot-peg, and leaving the bike completely vertical.

You would feel at home on a sidecar rig.
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  #21  
Old 06-17-2017, 05:11 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcchoc
Amen to that.

My Yorkshire wet weather technique involves climbing off the seat onto one foot-peg, and leaving the bike completely vertical.

That's my ice-riding technique. Long unused now.
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  #22  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:15 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Chicken strips are no way to gauge how well you or anyone is riding. You can have a guy that rides the tires right to the edge that isn't as fast or skilled as another rider with inch wide "chicken strips". It just means that you aren't using as much lean angle as some and it's better to get around a corner using as little lean angle as possible so you have some reserve left over.

Take two riders going around a track at the same speed but one has chicken strips and the other doesn't. Who's the better rider?

I used to think that scraping my foot peg was the goal of good riding and I remember the day I did so. Everyone thought the sparks were bad ass and that I'd achieved some new level of riding ability when in actual fact I just had terrible body position and was pushing the bike down and underneath me and using way more lean angle than necessary.

I'd rather be the one with the chicken strips that everyone underestimates anyway
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:22 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Chicken strips or lack of - same thing as getting a knee down. These days all I'm concerned with is good body position - good lines - good fundamentals.
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:49 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

But does it not stand to reason that IF you have more usable tire edge, someone COULD run more lean angle and therefore theorectically COULD go faster in the appropriate corner?

I never get a knee down, but Im not looking to.

I do take a peek at how much more usable tire edge I have left using that information to tell me if I need to work on more body position if I want to try to run faster.

I suppose this is nearly meaningless on the street because even with an average hang off position, the corner speeds achievable are incompatible with most public road conditions and traffic.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:09 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
But does it not stand to reason that IF you have more usable tire edge, someone COULD run more lean angle and therefore theorectically COULD go faster in the appropriate corner?

I never get a knee down, but Im not looking to.

I do take a peek at how much more usable tire edge I have left using that information to tell me if I need to work on more body position if I want to try to run faster.

I suppose this is nearly meaningless on the street because even with an average hang off position, the corner speeds achievable are incompatible with most public road conditions and traffic.
Sure all of the above.

I can put a knee down theses days almost at will - but that doesn't mean I took the corner correctly or certainly does not mean I took it as fast as possible. Once you have parts touching the ground bike/body you are slowing down.

Having more tire left to use is a good thing - it's when you have used up all of your tire you need to be concerned.

All these things happen as we get faster and hopefully better riders - continue practicing - look at pictures/video of yourself to see your body position.

Ask the coaches at the events to do a few laps observing you and towing you - almost all organizations will do that for free.

See if you can do a few one on one days with a coach - most track day orgs offer this. Go to CSS no need to sell them they are really fantastic.

Lastly and most importantly in my opinion - go out and have fun - don't worry about being the slowest rider or fastest rider - you will never be either of those. Go out be honest to yourself in regard to how well you are actually riding - don't worry about moving up to the next group level - many riders want that sticker and get in trouble.

I'm fighting aging these days - the trick for me - get to the track often to keep the skills I've learned and to continue to learn.

If you get to the track a few times a year or so spread out over time it is really hard to learn.

Something that I have found to be really good - when at all possible I never do a single day event(especially at a new track).

I always do a 2 day event - the first day if you have not been on track for awhile is getting yourself re-acclimated and of course learning the track. By the end of the day I'm usually starting to feel comfortable.

If you are there for the day you leave and have to repeat the process all over again next time out. If you are there for two days your motor memory skills are still fresh in your head and day two almost always is an awesome day.

Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting doing one track day is not worth it - it most certainly is - I'm suggesting what works for me in regard to my learning ability.

This season I've only done one single day so far - I have two other single days coming up because one is a schedule conflict and the other is only a one day event.

I learn really slow I'm going to be close to 30 track days this year am I better than last year maybe??
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:50 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
But does it not stand to reason that IF you have more usable tire edge, someone COULD run more lean angle and therefore theorectically COULD go faster in the appropriate corner?

I never get a knee down, but Im not looking to.

I do take a peek at how much more usable tire edge I have left using that information to tell me if I need to work on more body position if I want to try to run faster.

I suppose this is nearly meaningless on the street because even with an average hang off position, the corner speeds achievable are incompatible with most public road conditions and traffic.
Just do this and you will be just fine - if I could do this I would not care about knee down ever.
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:57 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I agree with running a couple trackdays together. As it is now, I work 6 days a week and if I do take a day off, I've got to ask a colleague to cover a Saturday. So, you know. Work guilt.

Knee down seems to be a rider's gauge of lean angle. I should learn to do it. My leg just doesn't seem to go that way naturally...

I am definitely having fun! I love this shit.

If I have the opportunity, I would love to take Jason Disalvo's trackday/coaching sessions.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:47 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paughco
Watch "Twist of the Wrist 2" while it's still on YouTube (it disappeared last year, right around the time the California Superbike School got into full swing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OQF7tygAi0
Seeya
ATB

That one got hit with a take-down notice. It's a whack-a-mole game though, other folks will put it up. The video motivated me to want to take the California SB school. Not cheap but definitely looks worth it. I don't own leathers though, need to get the gear before I can attend.

Here's the abridged version that leaves out 25 minutes of bad acting but keeps the instructional parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjL_BO4fPpU

I downloaded it and watch it on TV at home.
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2017, 11:32 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

The instructions on gear in the school literature are strict of course. But when you show up most any good gear is okay. I rode in a aerostitch suit, several in two piece suits. You can rent their leathers for about $25. Be sure to use their bikes. About 200$ but well worth it. No fuel worries and no tires to worry about either. Plus if there is a mechanical failure they just give you another bike. If it is your bike, your out if your bike won't run and it may cost you thousands if you dump it. They have a damage deposit and a maximum that you pay if you crash that is way less than hurting your own bike. You won't crash and you will learn so much you will wish you had done it years ago. Get lodging near the track so you can sleep the night before and after if you live more than an hour or two away.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:11 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Thanks for the advice, Beech. I saw their website mention that they've fitted guys bigger than me with their rental leathers. Looking forward to trying the S1000RR at speed.
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  #31  
Old 07-25-2017, 12:10 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I try to tell folks that this is something not to be missed. You will have a great adventure and learn so much. Enjoy. ( I was nervous as a cat in a dog park the first half hour in the class room. It all go better)
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  #32  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:37 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I just don’t think the road is the place to erase “chicken strips”. Take it to a track and learn from instructors......then do it there. On the street, those are “common sense” strips.

Erasing them only takes lean angle and that means you are taking turns at speed......on public roads. I have entered too many bends littered with sand, leaves, oil, potholes, bicycles, deer and dogs to be riding at the limit. And now you have most drivers not even watching where they are driving so they are in your lane as well. Also, not sure about the roads where you guys are riding but mine don’t have run-wide areas and sand traps for get-offs.......or roadside EMT’s.

Keith Code’s “Twist of the wrist” is a mixed bag. First, it’s outdated. There is a lot of information here that came before ABS and traction controls. It has good information for the track but features squids and a creepy guy on an ST1300 who are basically saying that if you ride on the street and are not using the whole tire that you are a poor rider....that if you can’t keep up with guys who push until they crash then you are a poor rider........that if you can’t brag at a coffee shop in leathers.....you are a poor rider. These are NOT role models for any rider. Ridiculous. And worse, it’s dangerous to ride on the street as you would the track. IF you have any goals on the street other than to make it home alive......you are not doing it right.

In fact, all it takes is one “twist of the wrist” to loose your life on the street.

I think that “good street riders” and “good track riders” are completely different skills and that using techniques honed on the track leaves very little safety margin for the street. A few sessions at the track may even give you a false confidence about your abilities to push on the street. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing indeed.

The good street riders are you fellows here on this forum that have done it safely for years and hundreds of thousands of miles and are still doing it on performance bikes as you age......touring the nation.....telling stories and laughing with friends. Fantastic! They should be featuring you guys on a video.....not aspiring squids at coffe shops. I suspect many of those guys are dead or limping for the rest of their lives.

Honestly, you guys are my heroes. Keep up the good work.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:33 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

K13Msport,

I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve always ridden on the street with the attitude of ‘live to ride another day’.

Sure, I’ve ridden too fast at times on public roads as well. Too many times I’ve ridden with guys who ride like they’re pretending to be MotoGP riders, traveling at speeds not warranted by the roads we were on. If you want to play Ricky Racer, spend some time and money at the track, where your odds of surviving a crash are greatly enhanced.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:53 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by K13Msport

I think that “good street riders” and “good track riders” are completely different skills and that using techniques honed on the track leaves very little safety margin for the street. A few sessions at the track may even give you a false confidence about your abilities to push on the street. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing indeed.


i could not DISAGREE with this paragraph more. good street riders and good track riders are completely compatible and complementary skills. the situational awareness, bike handling, understanding of turns, knowledge of braking and cornering and body positioning learned in a safe track environment make good street riders better. i do track days regularly to make myself a smarter, more aware, and safer street rider. i don't go any faster on street because of track learning, but i am far more confident knowing the proper way to handle the bike and knowing its limits in an emergency. i have actually taken all my bikes to track days so i understand the nuances and limits of all of them.

the more training on the bike you can get, the better. sounds like you have never done a track day....you should.

the middle 70% of the tire is for the street....the outer 15% is for the track, or emergencies.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:16 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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I just don’t think the road is the place to erase “chicken strips”. Take it to a track and learn from instructors......then do it there. On the street, those are “common sense” strips.

Erasing them only takes lean angle and that means you are taking turns at speed......on public roads. I have entered too many bends littered with sand, leaves, oil, potholes, bicycles, deer and dogs to be riding at the limit. And now you have most drivers not even watching where they are driving so they are in your lane as well. Also, not sure about the roads where you guys are riding but mine don’t have run-wide areas and sand traps for get-offs.......or roadside EMT’s.

Keith Code’s “Twist of the wrist” is a mixed bag. First, it’s outdated. There is a lot of information here that came before ABS and traction controls. It has good information for the track but features squids and a creepy guy on an ST1300 who are basically saying that if you ride on the street and are not using the whole tire that you are a poor rider....that if you can’t keep up with guys who push until they crash then you are a poor rider........that if you can’t brag at a coffee shop in leathers.....you are a poor rider. These are NOT role models for any rider. Ridiculous. And worse, it’s dangerous to ride on the street as you would the track. IF you have any goals on the street other than to make it home alive......you are not doing it right.

In fact, all it takes is one “twist of the wrist” to loose your life on the street.

I think that “good street riders” and “good track riders” are completely different skills and that using techniques honed on the track leaves very little safety margin for the street. A few sessions at the track may even give you a false confidence about your abilities to push on the street. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing indeed.

The good street riders are you fellows here on this forum that have done it safely for years and hundreds of thousands of miles and are still doing it on performance bikes as you age......touring the nation.....telling stories and laughing with friends. Fantastic! They should be featuring you guys on a video.....not aspiring squids at coffe shops. I suspect many of those guys are dead or limping for the rest of their lives.

Honestly, you guys are my heroes. Keep up the good work.

Honestly, when I first read this I was going to respond with something like, “this sounds like a statement coming from someone who hasn’t done a track day” or “you have completely misread or misunderstood Keith Code’s book.”

But... while I disagree with most of your statements, I do in the end agree that riding the track does entail a skill set that is somewhat different than riding the streets. After all, your main goal differs for the most part unless as you say, you are riding like a squid on the streets. On the track you look to maximize speed and pass as quickly as you can. On the streets, you look to maximize safety and enjoyment and unless you are riding squidly maybe the speed is secondary.

The only thing I caution someone dismissing track riding skills is when the shit hits the fan, you need to know how to add lean angle without lowsiding, or how to threshold brake or even brake deep into ABS, or how to most effectively counter steer the bike, or how to confidently trail the brakes in a corner you approached too quickly. If you never practice these skills at some degree of difficulty, when the time comes to excute them in an emergency situation, who is going to be more prepared?
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:29 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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On the track you look to maximize speed and pass as quickly as you can. On the streets, you look to maximize safety and enjoyment and unless you are riding squidly maybe the speed is secondary.


i gotta disagree with this one too. that is NOT the correct goal on a track. in a race maybe, but not a track day/school. speed is a result of goals to properly manage the bike, the line, the traffic, your body and your vision. those goals are precisely what result in better safety and enjoyment on the street, without having to go like a squid.

i have been racing cars and teaching high performance and competition driving for nearly two decades. any student i get that insists their goal for the day is to go faster....goes home.

your last para, however, is SPOT ON!!! :-)
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:33 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Maybe in the novice and early intermediate levels. But you don't make it to advanced without the skills to SAFELY pass. And that takes a different mindset.

It's a mindset that will get you in trouble on the streets but at the more pointy end of trackday riding, being able to pass a slower rider safely and quickly IS one of the goals. That is without a doubt in my mind.


But to make this your first goal as a novice is a mistake. I agree...






Rereading what you quoted, I can see how it sounded so wrong... "passing as quickly as you can"


what I meant to imply without going into a lengthy discussion is that passing effectively means not slowing and waiting behind a slower rider. Thinking ahead several corners as you are approaching him/her and letting your momentum carry you past quickly is much better than slowing and then trying to regain that speed at the next corner on the brakes or trying to out drag them on corner exit... Complicated, but as an instructor, you must know what I'm fumbling to say...
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:44 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

i would argue that safe passing skill is also good for street riding. it is a subset of traffic management and situational awareness goals. knowing what the other vehicles around you are doing, what your options are, what they might do...all part of the traffic management picture on track and on the street. it is not only about safe passing, it is also about safely being passed.

ah, but we are a bit off the chicken strip topic!

and just read your added para....know exactly what you are saying. good stuff! that is the awareness and traffic management skill. i can about guaranttee that someone who can plan and execute a clean pass from several corners or laps back is going to be a way better street rider than someone who can't. the vast majority of street riders and drivers can't plan more than 100ft in front of their wheels.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:47 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I have done track days. I am a stranger to you and you are assuming too much.

Tell me specifically how riding on a track makes you more situationally aware on the street. Ridiculous. Being situationally aware on the street comes with time and practice. It is the sixth sense that allows you know that the SUV at the light is going to turn left in front of you......or the texting teenager in the red car is changing lanes without signaling....or that the person behind you is likely to hit you at the next stop. These are not things you learn on the track.

“Turns, braking and cornering”....”body position, leaning off”. Ha ha I’m not buying it. That stuff is a blast on the track and rewarding when you get it right but none of that really applies much to the street unless you are pushing things. I see too many kids and some adults emulating the MotoGP guys on the street. Watching too much TV or had a track day or two is my guess. They possess just enough performance knowledge to be dangerous.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation does a much better job teaching counter steering, throttle, braking, turning and street survival skills than the California Superbike School.

Finally, those skills that are honed razor sharp on the track are perishable. You have not been granted immortal motorcycle superpowers because you go to a track day or performance school. No “get out of jail free” card to protect you from the infinite variables of street riding. Unless you live a life where you are refreshing them frequently, you may be convinced that the skill you had back then will somehow save you tomorrow.

I think track experiences are fun and build confidence but have nothing to do with street riding. The goals are completely different. Track riders literally push until they fall. On the street, falling just once can change your body and life forever. Personally, I just want to enjoy the day, the machine and go home to my wife and kids. I could not care less if I have not pushed the limits of traction and turning and braking or have perfect body position or leaned off or hit my perfect line or braking marks. Not one iota.

My perfect body position is the one that is most comfortable. I brake gently to avoid getting rammed from behind. I accelerate to sepereate myself from cars and trucks. I leave as much traction on the table as is possible because I might need it in an emergency. My perfect line keeps me away from other cars and obstacles and animals. If I am riding well on the street, I use 25% of the performance of the bike and tires and brakes. THAT is the skill you need for the street.

Track riding and street riding may look like each other to the inexperienced but they are worlds apart....and one does not take any less skill than the other to be good. Street riding is far more dangerous in my opinion.

Talking about “chicken strips” on a street bike is a fools game......can’t believe Keith Code let that pass. Trying to sell a few books I suppose.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:52 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Help me understand why you pick on Keith Code and chicken strips.
Does he somewhere say that you have to ride to the edge of the tire to be a good rider? I must have missed that...


I don't necessasrily agree that Keith Code's way of teaching is the best way. Certainly not the only way. But I have never found his teachings lacking particularly when applied to street riding.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:57 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

The biggest thing that I take away from Keith Code's teaching is his in depth conversation of VISION.

Using reference points, focusing and expanding your vision as you approach and make your way through a corner and onto the exit. Keith Code explains and develops this concept very well and it is directly applicable to the streets.


In fact, I think all of TOTW2 is more applicable to the streets and less applicable to really fast track riding for reasons beyond this discussion.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:00 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

K13M....WOW.. you just don't get it.

out here.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:06 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

As far as hanging off, you really aren't reading Keith Code correctly, if you think he advocates this carte blanche.


It is just another tool used to corner. If your corner speed is not fast enough to need to lean off, don't do it.

Hanging off has been the most overblown and misunderstood technique of motorcycle riding for some time...
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
I have done track days.
...
Track riders literally push until they fall.


These two statements don't jive...

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation does a much better job teaching counter steering, throttle, braking, turning and street survival skills than the California Superbike School.


Again, it really does not sound like you are speaking from 1st or even second hand experience...
but, as you say, "you don't know me..."



Look, I totally agree with your statements about safety and safety margin on the street. Which is why I'm so confused at the vitriol you spew toward Keith Code. All his writings directly address that safety margin and ways you can increase it! Not decrease it.
Yes, chicken strips on a street bike, not a bad thing. We can agree on that...

But track riding totally not applicable to street riding and TOTW teaching how to decrease safety margins?

Do you still use the rear brake primarily to stop? Did you used to ride HD's? seriously, just wondering. It might explain a lot.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:26 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by jcw
Help me understand why you pick on Keith Code and chicken strips.
Does he somewhere say that you have to ride to the edge of the tire to be a good rider? I must have missed that...


I don't necessasrily agree that Keith Code's way of teaching is the best way. Certainly not the only way. But I have never found his teachings lacking particularly when applied to street riding.

The title of this thread is literally “chicken strips “.

“A twist of the wrist 2” does this very thing. If you watched that video, you did miss it.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:32 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
The biggest thing that I take away from Keith Code's teaching is his in depth conversation of VISION.

Using reference points, focusing and expanding your vision as you approach and make your way through a corner and onto the exit. Keith Code explains and develops this concept very well and it is directly applicable to the streets.


In fact, I think all of TOTW2 is more applicable to the streets and less applicable to really fast track riding for reasons beyond this discussion.

His countersteering demos are first rate. And you are correct about the vision section as well.

The interplay with the two squids and the mystery Obe Wan Kinobe on the ST1300... and the last chapter where the squids are now heroes because they have no chicken strips leaves no doubt that anyone not pushing the limits of their bikes on the street must not be a very good rider.

It’s Keith Codes video. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he believes it as well.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:34 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Honestly, when I first read this I was going to respond with something like, “this sounds like a statement coming from someone who hasn’t done a track day” or “you have completely misread or misunderstood Keith Code’s book.”

But... while I disagree with most of your statements, I do in the end agree that riding the track does entail a skill set that is somewhat different than riding the streets. After all, your main goal differs for the most part unless as you say, you are riding like a squid on the streets. On the track you look to maximize speed and pass as quickly as you can. On the streets, you look to maximize safety and enjoyment and unless you are riding squidly maybe the speed is secondary.

The only thing I caution someone dismissing track riding skills is when the shit hits the fan, you need to know how to add lean angle without lowsiding, or how to threshold brake or even brake deep into ABS, or how to most effectively counter steer the bike, or how to confidently trail the brakes in a corner you approached too quickly. If you never practice these skills at some degree of difficulty, when the time comes to excute them in an emergency situation, who is going to be more prepared?

I agree with the last paragraph.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:36 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by K13Msport
His countersteering demos are first rate. And you are correct about the vision section as well.

The interplay with the two squids and the mystery Obe Wan Kinobe on the ST1300... and the last chapter where the squids are now heroes because they have no chicken strips leaves no doubt that anyone not pushing the limits of their bikes on the street must not be a very good rider.

It’s Keith Codes video. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he believes it as well.




Ahhh, I see.


If you get the chance, read Twist of the Wrist 2.


That short film on youtube teaches absolutely nothing. I totally agree with you on that...
And is totally unrepresentative of his depth and breadth of knowledge and of the quality of the instruction at CSS. The school is absolutely first rate in terms of professionalism.


On their forum on the other hand, they come off as elitist pricks and holders of some secret knowledge... That's a different topic...
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:41 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
These two statements don't jive...



Again, it really does not sound like you are speaking from 1st or even second hand experience...
but, as you say, "you don't know me..."



Look, I totally agree with your statements about safety and safety margin on the street. Which is why I'm so confused at the vitriol you spew toward Keith Code. All his writings directly address that safety margin and ways you can increase it! Not decrease it.
Yes, chicken strips on a street bike, not a bad thing. We can agree on that...

But track riding totally not applicable to street riding and TOTW teaching how to decrease safety margins?

Do you still use the rear brake primarily to stop? Did you used to ride HD's? seriously, just wondering. It might explain a lot.

Nearly every good track rider falls searching for limits. Name a single recognizable track rider who has not.

I am speaking from first hand experience from both schools.

I use the rear brake as needed. Same as you.

I can’t even respond to the remainder of your post because it has almost nothing to do with what I wrote. Seems like you just want to argue honestly.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:45 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by K13Msport
Nearly every good track rider falls searching for limits. Name a single recognizable track rider who has not.




Track day riding is not racing.
The goal of a trackday rider is not to fall.
The goal of a racer is not to fall.

I do not know one guy that goes to a trackday saying I am going to push to the limit until I fall. Not one guy. Ever.




Sorry about the HD comment. But it wasn't meant to be derogatory (at least not completely), but something to understand where you are coming from.
Besides, you meet the best people on HD's, (bruce).
Rear brake comment was interesting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
I use the rear brake as needed. Same as you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
I am speaking from first hand experience from both schools.


Then I should shut up and listen to you. Did they really tell you at CSS that hanging off and scrubbing the chicken strips off the tires on the streets was a goal?????? REALLY????
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:46 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by jcw
Ahhh, I see.


If you get the chance, read Twist of the Wrist 2.


That short film on youtube teaches absolutely nothing. I totally agree with you on that...
And is totally unrepresentative of his depth and breadth of knowledge and of the quality of the instruction at CSS. The school is absolutely first rate in terms of professionalism.


On their forum on the other hand, they come off as elitist pricks and holders of some secret knowledge... That's a different topic...

I have not read the book. Just watched the video. I am not arguing that they are not a first rate school for track riders. I was saying that riding that way on the street is dangerous and also the basics can be taught well for street riding at the MSF or from a good street instructor.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:55 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I have been to ONE track event where someone has NOT had a get off.

The goal of every racer is to find the limits, which they do by falling. Every one of them.

Most of the track riders are trying to emulate the racers. Same principle as basketball camps. No one goes to the track to go slowly. A lot of those guys are taking their newfound limits to the street with disastrous results.

And I am getting so tired now. Good night all. Sheesh.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:59 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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I have not read the book. Just watched the video. I am not arguing that they are not a first rate school for track riders. I was saying that riding that way on the street is dangerous and also the basics can be taught well for street riding at the MSF or from a good street instructor.




I know I am ahead of you a couple posts...


But, I just can't believe you actually took a CSS course and come back with a statement like this?



OK, you win... maybe some others that have attended CSS will add their 2 cents.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

JCW:

They did not say that. I never said they did. Are you even reading or just typing away in your jammies? Look. Putting words in people’s mouths and then arguing with them about it is well......ridiculous.

If you are commenting politely on something I actually said.....well, that’s what a forum is. Whatever you are doing is strange honestly. You will have to do it by yourself now. Night night.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:07 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

I apologize if I made an inappropriate leap from your previous statements to what I stated above.
If it was not what you were saying, then I was mistaken...



Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
Keith Code’s “Twist of the wrist” is a mixed bag. First, it’s outdated. There is a lot of information here that came before ABS and traction controls. It has good information for the track but features squids and a creepy guy on an ST1300 who are basically saying that if you ride on the street and are not using the whole tire that you are a poor rider....that if you can’t keep up with guys who push until they crash then you are a poor rider........that if you can’t brag at a coffee shop in leathers.....you are a poor rider. These are NOT role models for any rider. Ridiculous. And worse, it’s dangerous to ride on the street as you would the track. IF you have any goals on the street other than to make it home alive......you are not doing it right.

In fact, all it takes is one “twist of the wrist” to loose your life on the street.




Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
I am speaking from first hand experience from both schools.




I am still interested in hearing what exactly did you mean if not that, though.
Some other time...








On last thought.
Most trackday "off's" aren't riders reaching the limits of their bikes particularly in novice and intermediate groups.
Many of the off's are riders unprepared for the speed and running off line and off track and falling or into other riders. I am humbly speaking from experience.

The limits of the bike are so far off, I will never truly ride at the limit.
One's own personal limit (managing your survival reactions as Code calls it) can however be improved. And this extra skill and safety margin makes for a safer street rider.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:30 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
Most trackday "off's" aren't riders reaching the limits of their bikes particularly in novice and intermediate groups..... One's own personal limit (managing your survival reactions as Code calls it) can however be improved. And this extra skill and safety margin makes for a safer street rider.
Many street "offs" have little to nothing to do with one's limits. Most of the crashes (including mine in 2010) were the result of something simply going wrong when everything up to that point was going great. Keith Code has one bit of advise in Twist of the Wrist that is inarguable and too many of us don't follow it. I'm paraphrasing from memory but basically it's this, go into every turn with 10 cents in your pocket. If you enter at 9/10ths and have a 2 cent mistake you're screwed. Go in at 7/10ths and you have 3 cents to spend. Maybe Clint Eastwood said it best, Do you feel lucky punk? Well, do ya?

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Old 01-09-2019, 09:07 AM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Isn't this exactly speaking to one's limits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
If you enter at 9/10ths and have a 2 cent mistake you're screwed. Go in at 7/10ths and you have 3 cents to spend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Msport
That’s a great idea. I will need to ride it a bit to see how the seat fits my seat.

Current ride will be the K1300S. Just sold a Ducati 1098S I already miss.....and before that a KTM RC8R....., which I miss, and a KTM 990 SuperDuke before that....which I miss, and on and on through a Honda Interceptor, GSXR 750, and the Suzuki TL1000S and the ol Suzuki T500 Titan 2-stroke to name a few. Wish I still had them all.

I have a little problem separating from my bikes. Ha ha




Well, you certainly come with plenty of sportbike experience...


I guess we can still agree that chicken strips on a street bike isn't a bad thing. And chasing that last bit of lean angle to scrub them off on the street when you aren't prepared is foolish.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:32 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
Well, you certainly come with plenty of sportbike OWNERSHIP...


fixed that for ya....
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:23 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by cabnfvr
74A, 3 miles from Pirate's Lair and about 20 from our NC home. We'll be back in 25 months, 6 days.
But who's counting....
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:50 PM
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Re: My chicken strips are almost an inch wode

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Originally Posted by mlytle
fixed that for ya....

Owned them, rode them, and maintained them all. Fixed that for you as well.
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