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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:24 AM
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Q re FD Pivot Bearings

I had this in the FD removal section but needed to start a new thread to ask the question....What longterm harm could be done riding 3500 miles on a likely compromised inner pivot bearing for the final drive?

original post:

Updated..(there is a question for RFW, Lee, or other knowledgeable folks at the bottom)..My wife and I finally sold our bed and breakfast, got our 'green cards' for temporary residence in Mexico, and are shipping down what little money we have left after capital gains, to finish the house in San Miguel de Allende. With this in mind, I finally took my original final drive to Zen House in Pt. Arena where Dave rebuilt it for me in less than a week from drop off to pick up. Just over $500 all told. Took it home and on Saturday this week, had him mount up a set of PR-4s so I can ride it down to SMA when we move at the end of September, '18.
BUT!!!
I did not refresh my memory by re-reading the posts above (FD Removal post) and on final installation of the inside pivot bearing (fixed outside at high torque, inside at about 7), I overtightened the bearing and it got kinda notchy. I backed it out, reread the torques I had just read and found my error.
Since fixing this error properly involves total removal of everything I had just finished installing followed by driving out and replacing the bearing set with a new one that I don't have (I looked at the ones on the 'spare, and they are indented).I finished buttoning it all back up. Did a test ride to the bottom of my driveway, 1/4 mile. The rebuilt FD was immediately noticeably smoother than the 'spare' I had just removed, which was WAAY smoother than the original when I had pulled it 2 years ago.

Question: Can I ride it 3,500 freeway miles as is? If I know I am going to R&R this bearing as soon as I can get settled, what are the drawbacks of leaving it as it is until I can do that? I can't forsee any damage to other parts, the rollers can't escape and cause damage. But I am certain the plastic cage for the roller bearings has been compromised and the whole thing needs to be R&R'd.
Thanks for your patience and considered replies.....You will all be welcome to stop in and visit when on your next ride through Central Mexico!

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  #2  
Old 08-18-2018, 05:59 AM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

Hi Jim, Firstly congrats on selling your B&B! We too have just sold our business (Ice cream manufacturing) and are also looking at some big changes in our lives. Luckily no capital gains taxes on business here in New Zealand. Yet.
I can't see any immediate problems with your plans so long as there is no play in the rear wheel when rocked at 12/6 o'clock and 3/9 o'clock. These are not big moving bearings like the crown wheel bearing that can fail in quite a spectacular fashion when it starts to deteriorate. Personally I would probably run with it given the relatively short highway distance.
How much torque did you put on the inside bearing? I tend to torque mine to 11Nm initially, back it off and re torque to 9Nm. This process makes sure the final torque setting of 9Nm is achieved without excessive grease in the bearings compromising the setting as it has been squeezed out with the 11Nm set. In the past I have found that setting the bearings at 9Nm leads to the need to re torque them down the track as they start to loosen. At 11Nm I have never had to re tighten them.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:45 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

If the cage is damaged enough to let the tapered roller bearings move from their locations and bunch up, maybe not so good. Otherwise I bet plenty of bikes out there have brinelled swing arm bearings and go more than 3500 miles on them. I once watched a Hungarian video on setting the torque on this bearing. The fellow never checked for brinelling and just snugged it up. It is a bit of work to get the inner race out of the casting, so much has to come apart. It can be done in a day though. Darn bearing is expensive too.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:58 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

uh, how much torque did I put on? Well past the 9 Nm....much closer to the amount for the fixed side. I have successfully and properly done this job at least 4 times in the past and this time I just 'spaced' until I felt something odd, re-read the torque and it was a shock that my eyes had apparently strayed by a line and picked up the Fixed side torque level, for which there is no entry for the inside bearing......Saw an entry where I wanted to?
No play at 6/12 or 3/9 positions. So, I think I will order a new bearing set and replace it when I get the bike to San Miguel and have a good workshop with all my tools available, and a machine shop just down the street.

Spinning the wheel by hand, the internals of the rebuilt FD feel really nice compared to the temp I had just removed, which felt much better than my original before I had it rebuilt. Though the old replaced parts 'Look' fine, turning the inner bearing race while holding the outer race, you can really feel something bad there and there were still some slivers of metal hanging about. Really glad I had Dave Harris of Zen House do this rebuild for me.

I did review the pivot bearing replacement process in the Clymer book and determined I did not have the tools, time, parts to attack it there and then. It was the last step of the remove and replace process, and I botched it. The bearing races on the temporary FD were more brindled than my original races, I checked them just before the final install process. But, if it had been an easy job to get them out, I would have considered it. Remove the rebuilt FD, remove the bearing set I just damaged, remove the bearing set from the temp and reinsert it into the rebuilt FD, remount the rebuilt FD.....Better to just do one removal process and replace with a new set, I figured.
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:43 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

At that much torque...you may have cracked a roller or two+++++.

If either bearing seizes up?Inner bearing race will turn on the pin and wear it out.I am a long way from home otherwise I'd show what happens in them worse case scenarios.

One doesn't need many tools to replace them bearings.A good punch to drift them out?Some heat may help?I slowly tap the new ones in with a plastic hammer.Right flush to the case.Easy...!
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:32 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

I hadn't thought of a roller cracking. I do have 2 'spare' used sets to choose from. It is only time, right? Just a correctly sized socket as a drift will work? I have a good heat gun if that is needed. I just didn't want to go back in, I guess.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:33 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

There is a guy on Advrider selling Nushings (Nylager-Bushings) that fit our K's (and the R-GS bikes) that are much less expensive than the factory roller bearings and will likely have much longer life. I put a set on my GS and have a set on the shelf for the day I have to replace them on the K. He has a website: google "Nushings" and you'll find it.

I say ride it as-is; you are not likely to mess it up horribly as long as the races are there and the needles stay in place. The installation is an easy job once you have the FD off. He has quality directions on his website (that seems to be blocked here at work).

He also sells u-bends for inside the tank fuel line repair. Another great idea when the filter replacement time comes around.
I don't get a commission from him; I'm just a satisfied customer.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:58 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

I get the site, but it only comes up as a blank page. Broken link I suppose.

Google description is:
Nylager Nushings

nushings.com

replaces original part number 33 17 2 311 091 NEEDLE BEARING 10x32x17

Correct part number for my bike ($97 USD EACH at BMW dealers)
But, just a blank page.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:39 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Gull
I get the site, but it only comes up as a blank page. Broken link I suppose.

Google description is:
Nylager Nushings

nushings.com

replaces original part number 33 17 2 311 091 NEEDLE BEARING 10x32x17

Correct part number for my bike ($97 USD EACH at BMW dealers)
But, just a blank page.
Comes up on my phone.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:07 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

Yes on the phone access! iPhone6S for me.
$65 for the set is way better than $97 each for OEM. Got a set ordered today. For that price, I might as well do it right.

Thanks all for chiming in to help me with this decision, especially the intrepid wanderer pbegin! Who is on the road and took time to answer a PM.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:42 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

All done with the replacement. Turns out the fixed bearing side I thought was good totally fell apart when I tapped the outer race. I figured, I am replacing one, I have both, might as well just do it. SO GLAD I did! Easy job. Directions and 'manual' on his site www.nushings.com I used two methods to insert them, large C clamp, hard to keep centered, and then a simple mallet on wood block. That one was actually easiest and quickest. Setting inside bearing 'torque' is really easy. Find the 'sweet spot' where there is enough bind to prevent the FD from moving under its own weight yet moves easily by hand, and you are set. Torque the lock nut. I am all buttoned up and ready to go.
Photos on his site are way better than mine and I did not have to get gear oil on my phone.....
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:20 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

Glad it worked out for you.

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Old 09-07-2018, 07:13 PM
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Re: Q re FD Pivot Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Gull
All done with the replacement. Turns out the fixed bearing side I thought was good totally fell apart when I tapped the outer race. I figured, I am replacing one, I have both, might as well just do it. SO GLAD I did! Easy job. Directions and 'manual' on his site www.nushings.com I used two methods to insert them, large C clamp, hard to keep centered, and then a simple mallet on wood block. That one was actually easiest and quickest. Setting inside bearing 'torque' is really easy. Find the 'sweet spot' where there is enough bind to prevent the FD from moving under its own weight yet moves easily by hand, and you are set. Torque the lock nut. I am all buttoned up and ready to go.
Photos on his site are way better than mine and I did not have to get gear oil on my phone.....

Jim, glad you got it all sorted out. Again, Congrats on the move. Really kool to see your address posted above. It takes some cojones to pick up and move to a different country/culture. I know there are a sh#t load of expats there but you are still in Mexico. I hope to visit you and the wife one day. I've been looking at Ajijic. I like the lake and the International airport nearby in Guadalajara.
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