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  #61  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:39 AM
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pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is offline
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Why do you think the 500ml spec is too much??? Replaced my water contaminated fluid at 32,000 km and refilled to specs. Twice again since,no water and also to specs.
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  #62  
Old 10-05-2013, 12:13 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Why do you think the 500ml spec is too much??? Replaced my water contaminated fluid at 32,000 km and refilled to specs. Twice again since,no water and also to specs.

Filled, measurement from top is the same as max travel. As the tube pushes into the oil, that level will rise a little and there is a chance it will actually hydro lock at the end of travel and then force oil out of the seal area. I believe as long as the oil level is above the seal at rest, all should be fine.
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  #63  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:07 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Dredged up this old post from a search as I did my fork seals yesterday. I found chilei's post exactly what I found. Although my forks do not have a drain plug which would have been useful. I had to buy an oil syringe to suck out the old oil.

My RHS fork seal had failed and what I found in the tube was absolutely disgusting. There was around 400mL of fluid and was mainly emulsified putrefied brown oil and water. The LHS looked lovely but had only 300mL of fluid.

Got to the point of fitting the new seals when I found they were too big. Apparently BMW switched from a Showa fork to a Marzocchi at some point in the '90s?? The seals are around 1mm smaller in diameter. Now I wait for the new seals to arrive.
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  #64  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:26 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by clone5
Dredged up this old post from a search as I did my fork seals yesterday. I found chilei's post exactly what I found. Although my forks do not have a drain plug which would have been useful. I had to buy an oil syringe to suck out the old oil.

My RHS fork seal had failed and what I found in the tube was absolutely disgusting. There was around 400mL of fluid and was mainly emulsified putrefied brown oil and water. The LHS looked lovely but had only 300mL of fluid.

Got to the point of fitting the new seals when I found they were too big. Apparently BMW switched from a Showa fork to a Marzocchi at some point in the '90s?? The seals are around 1mm smaller in diameter. Now I wait for the new seals to arrive.

Sorry you missed another good thread on same subject BEFORE you ordered your Seals:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=45735

In above thread, the details to confirm your production date (under seat on VIN plate) is covered. Another way is to visit MAX-BMW parts fiche for front-forks where they have added a comments/warnings about checking your production date (part #3 in 1st diagram below).
For SHOWA forks: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...=31422 311988
For MARZOCHHI forks: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...=31422 333409

I am posting this info so that maybe next time someone with a 1997-1998 will get it from this thread also...
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  #65  
Old 01-23-2015, 01:41 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by clone5
Dredged up this old post from a search as I did my fork seals yesterday. I found chilei's post exactly what I found. Although my forks do not have a drain plug which would have been useful. I had to buy an oil syringe to suck out the old oil.

My RHS fork seal had failed and what I found in the tube was absolutely disgusting. There was around 400mL of fluid and was mainly emulsified putrefied brown oil and water. The LHS looked lovely but had only 300mL of fluid.

Got to the point of fitting the new seals when I found they were too big. Apparently BMW switched from a Showa fork to a Marzocchi at some point in the '90s?? The seals are around 1mm smaller in diameter. Now I wait for the new seals to arrive.

I just did that job on a Honda yesterday. Certainly different as it is a conventional Showa fork but the fluid came out pretty clean.

Good I tought until I did a flush with ATF. A cup of ATF in each fork....pump pump and flush again and then all the black muck came out.

Good to clean forks internals the ATF. I think I'll buy a gallon of Dexron 6....that way I can use that in the Honda forks, the GM transmission and maybe even the BMW when I feel like flushing the lifetime lube out of there. But then mine isn't lifetime.....I have already changed it twice and changed the seals last year so no need for that maintenance item this winter.
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  #66  
Old 01-24-2015, 01:43 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by clone5
Dredged up this old post from a search as I did my fork seals yesterday. I found chilei's post exactly what I found. Although my forks do not have a drain plug which would have been useful. I had to buy an oil syringe to suck out the old oil.

My RHS fork seal had failed and what I found in the tube was absolutely disgusting. There was around 400mL of fluid and was mainly emulsified putrefied brown oil and water. The LHS looked lovely but had only 300mL of fluid.

Got to the point of fitting the new seals when I found they were too big. Apparently BMW switched from a Showa fork to a Marzocchi at some point in the '90s?? The seals are around 1mm smaller in diameter. Now I wait for the new seals to arrive.
I know your pain all too well... I still haven't replaced the replacement seals from 2010 that immediately blew out by putting in the 500 ml spec amount in that gen of tubes...

The leaking has been less in the past 20k miles, but it's still a wipe down every few rides. It's time to finally make it right, inspect the paralever ball joint & the Hyperpro steering dampener interference issue.
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  #67  
Old 01-24-2015, 03:51 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

What volume of fluid is specified with the earlier shocks? 480mL, 450mL?
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  #68  
Old 02-11-2015, 05:53 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilei
I looked for the answer on this and though there was enough information to make me believe I could do this myself, there was no hard thread with pics... I am a visual guy so...

I had noticed that there was oil on the forks a while ago and was not sure if the seal was bad or if it was just an anomaly... it got worse and I had my answer.


Here is what I saw:

I started out by ordering from A&S motorcycles... no reason other than the fact that I have no local dealer and due to my time zone, Bobs was closed. Here is what I bought... (I know I likely didn't have to replace the visible "seal" but I didn't want to "Half-ass" it).



I went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheap seal puller, a screw driver would have also worked though.



I lifted the front wheel off the ground by parking my car right behind the bike, taking a tie down strap from my car bumper to the back of the bike and ratcheting it down.
There are three bolts to remove the handle bars to get to the inner fork, two pinch bolts, and one under the triple clamp. You will note that I originally tried to do this without removing the plastics... much harder and ultimately it only took a short time to know that this was not the right way.

To prevent undue stress to the lines and connections which remain on the handgrips, I used a small bungie and connected one end to each handlebar so the weight was not held by any connections.


With the body work removed, I took to draining the fluid from the fork. I know that I could drain it from the plug but decided that I would just use a brake bleeder to suck it out... worked well. I did have some tubing that was unused so I used that to attach to the vacuum device (so as not to mix fluid types if brake fluid was in the line at all). (yes this pic was before removing the body work, I stopped and removed the body work right after taking this.



Here is what it looked like before removing the outer sleeve...



Simply remove that outer sleeve. Using a screw driver or a seal puller, it just pops off. This will expose a retainer pin which is easily removed with a screw driver:

Then simply remove the seal... this is what is there when it is removed:


I took note that the new seals did not say which way they go, I don't know if it matters but I noted when I took the old out that there are notches on one side of the new seal... luckily these notches are on the old ones as well, in my case they faced up.

After getting it set using a seal seating tool (also bought at harbor freight) and replacing the retaining pin. I did not have to have the seating tool and could have done it with something else.

I put on the outer sleeve. For this I did one each way, I put it on and then slid the fork in, and I also slid it up the fork, put the inner fork into the assembly and then slid it down and seated it. I prefer the latter.

Then just put everything back together... Make sure that the wires and lines are routed correctly before putting it together. Also, be very careful as you torque... one of the pinch bolts is only in In lb... NOT in Ft lb... it is very lightly torqued.





All in all, it was very easy... I am thankful I didn't have someone else do it for two reasons... $$, and the fact that to have a BMW mechanic do it I would have had to drive over 3 hours one way.


Hope it is helpful to someone!
Stupid question perhaps, but do you pull the inner forks up and out to replace the seals? It's just this stage seems to be missed.
TIA
Philip
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  #69  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:39 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

You don't pull the forks up at all!

The seal is at the top. You pull the chromed inner sliding part carefully up through the top yolk once the cap is removed and pinch bolts loosened. Then you can get access to the seal at the top of the fork leg.

One of the photos clearly shows the chromed slider part way up out of the triple tree yolk plate.
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:24 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Once you remove the screw cap from the top of the tube the damping pressure is relieved and the tube can slide down out of the triple clamp once the pinch bolts are removed.
Then carefully slide tube back up and all the way out of the fork lowers
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  #71  
Old 02-11-2015, 07:25 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
You don't pull the forks up at all!

The seal is at the top. You pull the chromed inner sliding part carefully up through the top yolk once the cap is removed and pinch bolts loosened. Then you can get access to the seal at the top of the fork leg.

One of the photos clearly shows the chromed slider part way up out of the triple tree yolk plate.

If you're referring to the first photo, it just looks like the slider is in situ. But I know what you mean. The slider comes out from the top.

Thanks.

Philip
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  #72  
Old 02-16-2015, 11:12 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Ya, very useful thread.

Checked my VIN under the seat and found MFG date of 05/97. So this bike has the MARZOCHHI front end--nice to know.

The Clymer manual recommends fork oil change every year, a bit too often for the good it does. That text is probably a remnant from another BMW manual where the forks do actual front-end dampening.

Still, I'm changing the oil on general principals since the bike is new to me. Plan on using the lighter 7.5wt oil. Also, good motorcycle fork oil has additives designed to lube the seals, and not every oil on the market does that.

BTW, my habit is to wipe-down the forks regularly to remove any dirt or build-up that will (over time) damage the seals. I do this in lieu of fork gaiters, which I dislike the looks of (and the sounds they make).
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2015, 11:55 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Valente
The Clymer manual recommends fork oil change every year, a bit too often for the good it does. That text is probably a remnant from another BMW manual where the forks do actual front-end dampening.

BTW, my habit is to wipe-down the forks regularly to remove any dirt or build-up that will (over time) damage the seals. I do this in lieu of fork gaiters, which I dislike the looks of (and the sounds they make).

A few too many of them generic remnants in Clymer. If you want to work on the brakes/rebuild calipers please read the "Achtungs" in the BMW manual.

Wipe down is good....I guess the PO of my bike didn't wipe down the corrosive salty water and it found its way on top of the seals, corroded the little bit of metal that shows under the rubber on top of them seals and made them fail.And the circlips were also showing some corrosion.

So I do lift the dust caps every year for an inspection and some greasing of the top of the seals/previously rusty circlips that I never replaced. They are doing good with the "special grease" aka "red rubber grease".

Gaiters.....No thanks!
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  #74  
Old 02-23-2015, 04:53 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

I have now been riding for a few hundred kms on the fresh fork seals with the Marzocchi forks. I went with the spec 500mL in each fork and no leaks and no bottoming outs. I was concerned that the 1mm thinner diameter fork tube may require slightly less oil, but I think my calculation was less than 17mL and not worth worrying about.

I used a 5w Castrol fork oil

In conjunction with the new damper rubber at the top of the suspension, the whole setup feels lovely to ride.
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  #75  
Old 02-24-2015, 05:15 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by clone5
I went with the spec 500mL in each fork

I used a 5w Castrol fork oil


R1100RS spec is 470ml. When I pour in, I also dip it with a narrow 6 inch rule.
Dip it to 100mm, should have 15mm of oil on the end of rule. This fork had 85mm air gap. (thats with fork fully collapsed)
With a spring in there, (not in this case) normally run 90-110 mm air gap.

I think it is more important to get both levels even.

ATF makes a fine substitute for fork oil; better priced,(mostly) & 7.5 weight.
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  #76  
Old 02-24-2015, 06:25 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

I replaced my fork seals 8 years ago when there was much discussion about why seals leaked so soon after replacing them.

I concluded that dust/grit and dings on the sliders were the main cause, not the seals themselves.

For eight years I've had fork gaiters fitted with no leaks.
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  #77  
Old 09-13-2015, 05:45 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter
  • The seal part #'s for a 98 are dependent on the manufacture date. The microfiche on Max BMW's site has the details to get the right ones
Does anyone know the part number for the Showa seal? Both Bob's and Max's microfiche show a repair kit for the Marzocchi and both appear to show #4 on the diagram as the seal but no #4 on the parts list.

I'm looking at the front suspension section from this page. My K1200RS is a 2000 model.
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  #78  
Old 09-13-2015, 06:02 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe
Does anyone know the part number for the Showa seal? Both Bob's and Max's microfiche show a repair kit for the Marzocchi and both appear to show #4 on the diagram as the seal but no #4 on the parts list.

I'm looking at the front suspension section from this page. My K1200RS is a 2000 model.
What's the last seven digits of your frame number?
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  #79  
Old 09-13-2015, 06:08 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe
Does anyone know the part number for the Showa seal? Both Bob's and Max's microfiche show a repair kit for the Marzocchi and both appear to show #4 on the diagram as the seal but no #4 on the parts list.

I'm looking at the front suspension section from this page. My K1200RS is a 2000 model.

In MAX-BWM parts fiche, you need to scroll down a bit lower in left panes diagrams list: there is another diagram for front forks that applies to later models (after 09/1998 production). See item number 3 in this diagram for correct part number of seals:
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...=31422 311988
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:09 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
You don't pull the forks up at all!

The seal is at the top. You pull the chromed inner sliding part carefully up through the top yolk once the cap is removed and pinch bolts loosened. Then you can get access to the seal at the top of the fork leg.

One of the photos clearly shows the chromed slider part way up out of the triple tree yolk plate.
The 'INNER' forks. By that I meant the inside part. It's ok though. I've replaced the seals now. Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:00 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by philip43
The 'INNER' forks. By that I meant the inside part. It's ok though. I've replaced the seals now. Thanks.
I did the seals on mine today also gave me an opportunity to see how the fork tube dampening works.
On the sliding tube there is an orifice drilled through the wall, when the sliding tube is inserted after replacing the seal and adjusting the height of the tube through the yoke and then installing the cap on the end of the tube there is an air pocket trapped within in the sliding tube. as the tube compresses or extends the air pocket pushes the oil through the orifice and causes a dampening effect.
If you slide the tube in and cap it and with your hand slide the tube in and out you can feel the dampening, basically a piston pump, this can be adjusted by using different weight oil.
For those that leave the cap on and fill directly into the fork may be the reason you think the fill specs are wrong
If you leave the cap on, fill the forks with the correct amount specified by BMW and then you slide that tube in with the cap on you will push fluid out of the forks because you are forcing a bigger air pocket into the forks, by not removing the cap it traps more air in the tube and that space for the oil is reduced.
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  #82  
Old 09-13-2015, 09:01 PM
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Talking Re: Replacing front fork seal

New ones just feel better
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  #83  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Anybody else not seeing the pictures in the OP? All i see is the 'broken image' icon. Other threads are ok.
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  #84  
Old 05-17-2017, 02:28 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Sadly it looks like they are gone.
There are plenty of tutorials on Youtube;
This one is for an LT but the forks are exactly the same as the RS/GT forks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFX2V6-svVE&t=632s
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:44 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Ok, thanks all you blokes and ladies. I've replaced the seals without too much trouble. Trouble = dropped bolts down somewhere around the engine. Found. Don't you hate it when the bolt slips out of fingers and click clack down but doesn't drop on the floor. Groan!!!

The seals on the K1200RS require the springs on both top and bottom of the seal. Couldn't get a definitive answer, a lot of help though but I'm pretty pedantic so I disturbed my friend and BMW bike mechanic/technician of over 23 years and that what he advised. So that's what I've done. It's good to do my own seal replacement (my first time, and the bike too (96k klms) so some more of my finger prints are over it. The YouTube videos were a great help too.

Thanks everyone . Great site this is for everything BMW bikes.
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  #86  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:36 AM
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pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is offline
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

I should have looked at my pics. Right about the two springs.

Corrosion?

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  #87  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:07 PM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandS888
Sadly it looks like they are gone.
There are plenty of tutorials on Youtube;
This one is for an LT but the forks are exactly the same as the RS/GT forks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFX2V6-svVE&t=632s
Kirk's videos for the K1200LT are great, a lot of cross-over on stuff for the RS/GT.
Did my LT's seals following his instructions a year ago... pretty easy... now have to do the GT also as it shat itself 2 days ago...
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  #88  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:41 AM
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Great post, my fork seals are starting to pump a little oil now and I will accomplish this task this spring, glad I checked this blog first as I didnít know about the hidden bolt, any suggestions on fork oil weight? Looking forward to another summer of great riding!

Cheers
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  #89  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:53 AM
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RolandS888 RolandS888 is offline
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

7.5w or 10w it doesnt really matter, it only lubricates the sliders and does not provide any damping effect at all.
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  #90  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:10 PM
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cloclo0847 cloclo0847 is offline
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Re: Replacing front fork seal

Thank you for this technical report. I will now be able to do this proceedure with confidence. However, as I will have the forks apart, I plan to replace the coper bushings beneath the seals.

Best regards,

Claude
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