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View Poll Results: Do you routinely warm up your bike before driving off?
Yes, essential to warm your bike properly. 49 40.16%
No, its just a waste of time and fuel. 73 59.84%
Voters: 122. You may not vote until 'registered'. Please go here: http://www.i-bmw.com/register.php

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  #121  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:10 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Once upon a time I had my oil cooler line burst when driving off in the cold.
But it was January and it was a Mazda 323 so that does not count.

I have a friend has a v max lets it run for an insane number of minutes.
iirc a plain bearing engine must maintain its film of oil or you get contact wear.

But I also recall that a loping choppy idle has a tendency to punch through the film of oil and that a higher smoother rpm prevents this. Not redline but not idle either.

Then theres this old Kevin Cameron article form the 80s or so in which he talks at length about engine parts not being fuly expanded to optimal dimensions for upwards of an hour???
Least I think it was an hour..............
Its so cold here.
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  #122  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:18 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
But I also recall that a loping choppy idle has a tendency to punch through the film of oil and that a higher smoother rpm prevents this. Not redline but not idle either.
Yes, because the oil pressure is much lower at idle than it is at 40% of redline . . . and with plain bearings oil pressure is what supports the rotating crankshaft main and rod journals and prevents metal-to-metal contact.
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  #123  
Old 03-16-2017, 08:24 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Im sure the punch came from the occasional misfire or what have you.
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  #124  
Old 03-16-2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
Im sure the punch came from the occasional misfire or what have you.
So, you don't think oil pressure is lower at idle?
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  #125  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:07 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
Yes, because the oil pressure is much lower at idle than it is at 40% of redline . . . and with plain bearings oil pressure is what supports the rotating crankshaft main and rod journals and prevents metal-to-metal contact.
Interesting tought

IMO Like low pressure, it's not convenient to have too much pressure. Then the normal oil pressure is usually when the engine is idle with oil in operation temperature. Overpressure valve on the pump maintains the correct pressure all the RPM range, On the other hand there is more flow at high RPM in order to secure the metal / metal gap.

At idle there are less efforts on the surfaces as example between conrods / crankshaft then the minimum pressure is ok
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  #126  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:32 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
IMO Like low pressure, it's not convenient to have too much pressure. Then the normal oil pressure is usually when the engine is idle with oil in operation temperature. Overpressure valve on the pump maintains the correct pressure all the RPM range, On the other hand there is more flow at high RPM in order to secure the metal / metal gap.
You might think so, but no. Back when cars (and some bikes) had actual oil pressure gauges, and especially the graduated ones like my 1972 911, you could watch this. At idle the oil pressure is low, and then the oil pressure increases as the engine speed increases until the oil pressure reaches the relief valve pressure, after which the oil pressure remains relatively constant. It's not unlike what happens with the alternator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
At idle there are less efforts on the surfaces as example between conrods / crankshaft then the minimum pressure is ok
But when the engine (and engine oil) is cold, the oil is thicker and does not flow as easily through the tight space between the journal and the bearing. So the lower pressure delivered by the oil pump at idle does not push the cold oil through this tight space as readily as when the engine is running at a faster speed than idle (more pressure) or when the oil is at operating temperature (lower viscosity/thickness).
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  #127  
Old 04-09-2017, 04:00 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
Let's see, spend a couple of cents worth of gas to limit wear on a cold motor, or let it wear out sooner than later and pay the bills to get things right. It's your bike, but I call it (borrowing from B. Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac) "penny wise and pound foolish".

Talk to an automotive engineer.....he will tell you the same thing.....start your engine, buckle your seat belt, put it gear and drive away. If it is not something like 10 below and you are using straight weight oil, you will not damage your engine. If you would my 1979 Fiesta would not have lasted 400,000 miles, my Honda's would never have made it the hundreds of thousands of miles they ran.....and the XLCH would not have 200,000 on it.

Synthetic oils will flow enough to get where they need to be. And you do know that engines use a positive displacement oil pump so the oil is going to move. You just do not want to spin the engine so fast you out run it. That is why me sons M-4 BMW will not allow the engine to rev past something like 4500 rpm until the oil/water are up to normal. This is using a 10/60 or 15/60 synthetic oil. So.....if a 10/15w synthetic is good enough for the M-4 to allow 4500 rpm cold....how the hell will moving away and shifting at 2500 when cold using the same oil hurt my K-1200?

Show your research...or your hypothesis with 3 independent proofs. The BMW factory engineers already have their proof.
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  #128  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Here's what the Owner's Manual states.


There you go AGAIN......posting facts instead of old wives tales and urban legend......you surely know how to ruin a thread....
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  #129  
Old 04-16-2017, 03:32 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Rider: Dear John, every time I ride her I worry that she's not lubricated enough in every gap possible.
John: Just get straight on her, and ride away, be gentle to start with until you "bar up" to the usual level. See instructions below.
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  #130  
Old 04-30-2017, 06:25 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Wow this is a long thread . . and a thorny issue. for decades we were all told to warm the motor up before taking it out. My dad, now over 80, still does thatbut this "wisdom'came from a time when we had cast iron blocks etc, no antifreeze and in freezing cold conditions working a motor before warming it had a tendency to result in cracked blocks

These days technology has upgraded the ability of the block to sustain rapid temp changes a lot. Now they tellus these new jappers etc don't need pre warming. In fact they say the best thing we can do for the engines is start and go and allow it to heat up at it's natural pace.

Personally I would never RACE an engine until warm but pre-warming . . no. Methinks that went out with the dinosaurs
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  #131  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:12 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Interesting how the voting has progressed. Early on it was about 3 to one against warming up. over time the "warmers" have closed the gap to 40 percent in favor of warming. Darn "bike warmests".
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  #132  
Old 04-30-2017, 11:33 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

This thread has got me thinking when I'm getting ready to depart.....
and I STILL start the bike before I put on my helmet and gloves.
If you pull out onto my road and want to ease along until the engine
is warm, you'll have a soccer mom up you ass and not in a good way!
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  #133  
Old 05-01-2017, 08:04 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousi
If you pull out onto my road and want to ease along until the engine
is warm, you'll have a soccer mom up you ass and not in a good way!
"Ease" is not the same thing as "slow".
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  #134  
Old 05-27-2017, 05:27 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousi
This thread has got me thinking when I'm getting ready to depart.....
and I STILL start the bike before I put on my helmet and gloves.
If you pull out onto my road and want to ease along until the engine
is warm, you'll have a soccer mom up you ass and not in a good way!

I guess that depends what you are riding. I'm on a K12RS. @ middle range revs in any gear I am well over 50 kph (our round town speed limit here. One does not have to pansy these motors to get them heated up. I am pretty sure just normal (not racing style) riding will warm any engine within 5 or 10 minutes. And i do not know anyone who "rides like ya stole it"out the gate from cold
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  #135  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:25 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
Rider: Dear John, every time I ride her I worry that she's not lubricated enough in every gap possible.
John: Just get straight on her, and ride away, be gentle to start with until you "bar up" to the usual level. See instructions below.

Absolutely right. This thread has long passed its usefulness.
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  #136  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:15 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I think it really depends on the type of oil you're using.

I use Fuchs which is pronounced like chooks, not ducks. No warming up needed with Fuchs
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  #137  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:28 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaarntface
I think it really depends on the type of oil you're using.

I use Fuchs which is pronounced like chooks, not ducks. No warming up needed with Fuchs

I beg to disagree. The quickest way to get the engine to warm up is to ride it, not leave it sitting on the drive ticking over, regardless of the oil you're using. Just don't rag it until its warmed up.
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  #138  
Old 11-05-2018, 01:57 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshman
I beg to disagree. The quickest way to get the engine to warm up is to ride it, not leave it sitting on the drive ticking over, regardless of the oil you're using. Just don't rag it until its warmed up.

Then the next question is what do you do when the engine cannot reach "warmed up"?

I have, on several occasions, been able to ride 5 miles, get on the highway, pull off after 3 miles and hop on another highway, maintain 60-70 mph for another 10 miles or so.. then surface streets into work for the final 2-3 miles.. And my temp gauge never hits half way (I am riding at 35-50 for the first leg, 60-70 for the second and third, and 35 for the last leg.. but at 34 degrees.. she just dont warm up)...
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  #139  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:41 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scythefwd
Then the next question is what do you do when the engine cannot reach "warmed up"?

I have, on several occasions, been able to ride 5 miles, get on the highway, pull off after 3 miles and hop on another highway, maintain 60-70 mph for another 10 miles or so.. then surface streets into work for the final 2-3 miles.. And my temp gauge never hits half way (I am riding at 35-50 for the first leg, 60-70 for the second and third, and 35 for the last leg.. but at 34 degrees.. she just dont warm up)...

Your engine is warmed up sufficiently before you get on that first stretch of highway.
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  #140  
Old 11-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scythefwd
Then the next question is what do you do when the engine cannot reach "warmed up"?

I have, on several occasions, been able to ride 5 miles, get on the highway, pull off after 3 miles and hop on another highway, maintain 60-70 mph for another 10 miles or so.. then surface streets into work for the final 2-3 miles.. And my temp gauge never hits half way (I am riding at 35-50 for the first leg, 60-70 for the second and third, and 35 for the last leg.. but at 34 degrees.. she just dont warm up)...

The mid-mark isn't normal operating temp on a K1200RS.1/8" below the mid-mark at temps up to 70F and above depending on speed and airflow.

I also tought that the mid-mark was normal on my then new to me bike.Rode a season like that.Then cleaned the rads from grits,tar and bug crap.Running normal at 1/8" below the mark ever since.
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  #141  
Old 11-17-2018, 10:14 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
The mid-mark isn't normal operating temp on a K1200RS.1/8" below the mid-mark at temps up to 70F and above depending on speed and airflow.

I also tought that the mid-mark was normal on my then new to me bike.Rode a season like that.Then cleaned the rads from grits,tar and bug crap.Running normal at 1/8" below the mark ever since.

The ride I'm talking about.. it didn't move the needle till after I left the hwy... I know I had proper oil circulation though...
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  #142  
Old 11-18-2018, 10:48 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scythefwd
The ride I'm talking about.. it didn't move the needle till after I left the hwy... I know I had proper oil circulation though...

Find the gauge wire under the bike.At the coolant temp sensor on the water/oil pump.Pull the boot,clean connector,make sure it is tight and add some dieletric grease.

Rather exposed to the elements that.Sure makes the gauge act funny if connection is loose/dirty.Mine also wouldn't climb up one cool morning and altough it did later,readings weren't stable. And considering where I was headed,I fixed it at the next pullout.
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  #143  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:15 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Find the gauge wire under the bike.At the coolant temp sensor on the water/oil pump.Pull the boot,clean connector,make sure it is tight and add some dieletric grease.

Rather exposed to the elements that.Sure makes the gauge act funny if connection is loose/dirty.Mine also wouldn't climb up one cool morning and altough it did later,readings weren't stable. And considering where I was headed,I fixed it at the next pullout.

At 33-35 degrees, a slight mist in the air keeping things just a little damp.. I can totally understand why it didnt move. It's behavior has been consistent, at least for the 2k miles I have on it (not much.. but I can usually guess about where it's at based on how cold my thighs are lol). I just happened to catch a nice chilly morning, and I was moving at 40-80 mph for pretty much all of the ride.. My revs never got above 5k.. but it was just a good mix of temps to keep temps down on the block.. I'm not saying the oil wasn't holding some heat.. I'm saying that conditions were right to keep the gauge showing a low temp.. that said... My whole point of the original post was a little trolling based on a repeatable experience with my bike and the temp gauge. Oil is starting to circulate pretty quick.. and shes at pressure once idling. Temp gauges usually are checking coolant temp.. so they're an unreliable source of information for knowing your OIL temp. Yes, they correlate.. but they're not a 1:1 temp wise. As long as I'm not revving the hell out of my bike.. then oil will be getting where it needs to get. Would I jump on the bike and do a full throttle run up to 10k in first.. no, but would I be willing to do a half throttle run up to 5k before shifting.. probably. I also start my bike and let it run for a few seconds while I'm putting on my helmet.. thats enough to get oil circulating.
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  #144  
Old 11-19-2018, 10:52 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

50-60 psi at cold idle.But of course that drops once engine warms up.I never felt the need to install an oil temp gauge on that one but I had one on my airhead.


2018-11-19_07-48-03 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode
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  #145  
Old 11-24-2018, 06:30 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I was just watching the Scotty Kilmer channel on YouTube, and he says that only the old beasts with carburetors and choke's need to be warmed up first. The modern engine with fuel injection do not, although some of the early fuelies may still need some warming up.

As far as oil goes, Kilmer says to select an oil that is commensurate with the climate. What that means is, in colder climates use a lighter weight oil. If you use full racing oil, then perhaps a bit of warm-up time is a good practice.

As for myself, I put on all my gear, point the bike towards a slight downgrade, start the engine, and then roll the bike down the grade enabling me to slip it into gear without any hesitation. As I live in an apartment village, I run in 1st gear for about 1/4 mile until I'm heading out of the complex. Then, use familiar caution in riding until the bike reaches operating temperature.


Check-out Scotty Kilmer channel, he's the best (and he's a MC aficionado too boot).


-AJ
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  #146  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:22 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I'll go with the majority. I start the bike, let it warm up while I don my helmet & whatever, and back it out - then go slow for the first half mile or so, until the coolant temp is off the peg, then go.

I agree also that the coolant temp is irrelevant, but it does show that the engine is somewhat warmed.

Depend somewhat on oil being used, as well. In any case - I don't see is as black and white like the survey implies. A complete warmup is not "essential", and a partial warmup is not a "waste" - IMHO.
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  #147  
Old 02-08-2019, 11:57 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Here is some food for thought:
https://jalopnik.com/nascar-engine-e...our-1832245942

The notable thought is the difference in thermal expansion between steel and aluminum.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:02 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
50-60 psi at cold idle.But of course that drops once engine warms up.I never felt the need to install an oil temp gauge on that one but I had one on my airhead.


2018-11-19_07-48-03 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode




That gage ain't workin'...
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There's never enough time to do it right... But there's always enough time to do it over!
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:14 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I no longer need to hurry. I haven't used a bike for my main transportation since I was 23 yrs old, which was 47 years ago. I haven't used a bike for commuting since I retired 8 years ago. So, I just ride for fun which gives me time to warm up my bikes sufficiently. For my air-cooled bikes I warm them up 6-7 minutes. For my water-cooled bikes I warm them up till the temp gauge has moved somewhat, which usually is about 6-7 minutes also. While the bike is warming up, I'm getting my gear together (tools and misc stuff), putting jacket on, putting helmet on, etc.. I'm not concerned about wasting a bit of fuel.
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