I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > Alternate bikes > BMW R-Series
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

BMW R-Series Discussions of the Boxers EXCEPT the GS/GSA

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:29 AM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Hello everyone,
Did a search but cannot find information.
I have a 2007 R1200RT ex police. Never had a problem keeping the battery charged using a Battery Fighter Junior from my Ducati.
Found the Ctek advertised as a special on Ebay and bought it.
Call it coincidence, but hooked up the Ctek to the BMW and left it for a few days. Went to start it and it's dead.
Checked to see if it's the ring antenna by wriggling around, no joy. With Ctek still hooked up I can hear a buzzing noise under the seat and a ticking noise at the back of the fuel tank.
Disconnect the Ctek and noises go away.
When turning the key off, dashboard lights up and fades away.
Battery is brand new.
My conclusion is the the Ctek has 'cooked' some of the electronics - Canbus come to mind.
On the EURO MOTOELECTRICS website it does say that ' BMW recommends REMOVING the battery from model years 2005 and later (CAN BUS) BMW motorcycles before charging. Or hard-wire using terminals.'
The charger is hard-wired which seems to be contradictory. The charger definitely does not go through the canbus.
Dealer is 100km away and I have no means of getting the bike there.
Hoping someone on the forum can give me some pointers and that the problem is not terminal.
PS: I only have one key.
Regards,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2018, 11:40 AM
brucev's Avatar
brucev brucev is offline
Administrator
Post: 14,839 Thanks: 4,319
Thanked 5,360 Times in 3,113 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: W MASS, USA
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

I have been using CTEK chargers on my motorcycles for years. I have several MUS 4.3's. CTEK is one of if not the very best chargers on the market.

I can't say the charger did or did not cause any damage - I can say the charger did not cause any damage if the charger is in prober working condition.

Just because the battery is new does not mean something couldn't be wrong with the battery.

Get a voltage meter and check the battery. This tells the story in regard to battery condition.

The CANbus system is not in play as you stated if you have wired the charger directly to the battery.

BMW always states never charge the battery in the bike - so don't worry about that.

Check all the connections - if you have access to another charger try it - again the charger itself could have a problem.

Good luck.
__________________
Bruce

16 S1000RR-Black (Track Only)
16 R3-Black (Track Only)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:01 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

I'm with Bruce, your battery is the culprit here. If you don't have any test equipment, take it to a battery shop for evaluation. Try to charge it with your old charger, it should go up to 12.8 + volts. While trying to start the bike it should not drop below 9.5 volts. But....Do not try and start a BMW bike with a bad battery. The low volts on older bikes causes troubles. The newer bikes have voltage sensing circuit that does not allow a start attempt. When you clip the charger to the battery and plug it in to the wall, you should be reading an increasing voltage up to over 13 volts. Some smart chargers (most really) will not turn on if the battery is completely dead, i.e., below 6 volts. You can trick them by putting a 9 volt battery in parallel while the charger is hooked up. It will see the higher voltage and start up. In any case with a completely dead battery like yours it has put itself in the NFG zone and I'd just go get a new one. Read the threads on batteries. You get what you pay for.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:27 PM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Ok, thanks guys.
I think I may have found the problem. Need a bit more checking.
Putting a volt meter across the battery and turning the key on, voltage drops from 13.8 to 6.5 - 7.0 volts. At first glance it seems that the battery is in the NFG zone.
Here is what I think. Not familiar with the R1200RT, I do not know what the voltage output for the alternator is. I have read various posts and there seems to be a consensus that the 2007 R12RT could be putting out as much as 14.5v. Just removed the battery and found out it is a Gel type. When I bought the bike the battery was flat. The seller replaced it for a new one. The battery is only a few months old. I am wondering if he put the wrong battery type and/or the charging has been wrong for this battery. Also I came across a website that specifies that the charger I have is for lead acid batteries. Do not know how long it would take to fry a gel type battery with this charger (0.8 amps).
Tomorrow I will take it to a battery place and find out if it is fried.
Regards,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:44 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

You have found the problem. Gel batteries are very nasty. You need an AGM sealed battery and don't look back. Your voltage check showed the little pos is done. BMW tried for years to push gel as OEM battery. So many failures it was a nighmare for many. Yes the RT charges from 14.2 to 14.4 volts. Your police bike probably has a larger capacity alternator (watts) than stock. The bike charges even at idle but not as well as at 3200 rpm. Yuasa is a good middle of the road bike battery. Generally about 80$ on line. Some are shipped with acid in vials for your to add. Easy and the battery is fresh. You seal it up after filling. Directions straight forward.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:44 AM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Thank you everyone. I took the battery to BatteryWorld and they load tested it. It is definitely in the NFG zone. 13.7v free, 5v loaded.
Questions still remain as to the battery failed because of a possible manufacturing fault or did it fail because it was over charged.
Currently in discussions with the supplier, as the battery is only 10 months old, and whether or not they will replace it. Because I cannot get the v information on the charging voltage, I will opt for either an AGM or lead acid. No more Gels for now.
Although it is 99.9% a battery issue, I am relieved that it is not expensive electronics and as soon as I have a replacement will be 100% sure.
Regards,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:50 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Larry, do not get a let acid battery, life has moved on, the acid seepage will corrode stuff and there is no good place to vent them. Get an AGM battery that is sealed. If you buy one from a shop and it is filled and sealed, charge it at home for at least 4 hours before you install it. Do some battery reading on the web and get familiar with new stuff and how to treat batteries. If not cared for carefully, bmw bikes eat batteries for lunch.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-01-2018, 05:44 PM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Larry, do not get a let acid battery, life has moved on, the acid seepage will corrode stuff and there is no good place to vent them. Get an AGM battery that is sealed. If you buy one from a shop and it is filled and sealed, charge it at home for at least 4 hours before you install it. Do some battery reading on the web and get familiar with new stuff and how to treat batteries. If not cared for carefully, bmw bikes eat batteries for lunch.
Duly noted. Hadn't thought of that. Thank you for pointing this out. Just so pissed off having to argue the point with the supplier not wanting to admit a battery failure in under 12 months.
Thank you again,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Larry1200' for this post:
  #9  
Old 03-01-2018, 08:41 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

I know, having the same trouble with a rebuilt shock. Sometimes you wish the store was in town so you could make a return right through the front window.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-02-2018, 08:49 AM
MNJ1300's Avatar
MNJ1300 MNJ1300 is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 492 Thanks: 58
Thanked 23 Times in 17 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl USA
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

The gel cell and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell. However, they store very well and do not tend to sulfate or degrade as easily as wet cell. There is little chance of a hydrogen gas explosion or corrosion when using these batteries; they are the safest lead acid batteries you can use. Gel cell and some AGM batteries may require a special charging rate. If you want the best ,most versatile type, consideration should be given to the AGM battery for applications such as Marine, RV, Solar, Audio, Power Sports and Stand-By Power just to name a few.

If you don't use or operate your equipment daily, AGM batteries will hold their charge better than other types. If you must depend on top-notch battery performance, spend the extra money. Gel Cell batteries still are being sold, but AGM batteries are replacing them in most applications.

There is a some common confusion regarding AGM batteries because different manufactures call them by different names. Some of the more common names are "sealed regulated valve," "dry cell," "non spillable," and "valve-regulated lead acid" batteries. In most cases, AGM batteries will give greater life span and greater cycle life than a wet cell battery.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-03-2018, 07:47 PM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Thank you for your reply. It seems that the battery has died/fried. Unloaded voltage is 13.5 - 13.7v. On charger around 14.4v as expected. Loaded it drops to around 5v.
My dilemma is:
1) Is there a manufacturing fault with the battery - 10mth old
2) What voltage does the bike produce
3) Do I have a problem charging with the charging system on the bike
All these questions cannot be answered quickly as I live in country NSW and nearest dealer is 100kms away. I have no means no getting the bike to him.
I am reluctant to start the bike (jump start) with the battery the way it is as I do not want to risk damaging anything because of the extra load.
Have been in conversation with the manufacturer of the battery and, subject to verifying, he is adamant I have a problem with either a parasitic drain issue
or a failed charging system.
He is happy to supply me with a replacement battery. Free of charge if battery fault, my cost if problem with the bike.
Can any body give me the following information please:
1) What is the maximum voltage output to the battery on an2007 R1200RT
2) Being an ex-police bike, would the charging voltage have been modified in order to cope with extra demand
3) The battery is a Dynavolt MG52113. It is said to be 'Nano Gel' technology. Not sure what that means. Manufacturer insists in is an AGM type
and not a Gel type. Therefore an over voltage situation would not have fried the battery.Can anyone confirm what this battery actually is
It will be a couple of month till I next get onto this as we have to go away on perviously arranged commitments.
Regards,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:28 AM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

You're way over thinking this. You lost, gel batteries are a pos of the past. Just buy a new battery on line and follow the instructions that come with it. Move on. Your bike max voltage is about 14.4 volts, charges at 14.2. No there is not more voltage due to being an authority bike. Did your bike come with two batteries? Some cop bikes did. Batterys are like tires, they don't last. Buy a new one when needed. I generally keep a spare on the shelf after the bike unit reaches a year old. The following are good batteries and vendors. The fill it yourself are my favorite because you know it is fresh. It is easy to do.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/...xoCh9QQAvD_BwE

https://atbatt.com/yuasa-ytx14-bs-12...ports-battery/

https://atbatt.com/yuasa-ytx14h-bs-1...ports-battery/
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-04-2018, 05:57 AM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Thank you for your reply Beech.
I take your point. Yes bike has two batteries. The one that is NFG is rated at 21Ah. The links you sent refer to 14Ah.
I am just curious as to what is the battery I have.
Yes I will get a new one but wanted to know what the charging voltage was as this was mentioned by the manufacturer and simply did not want me to replace the battery and have the same thing happen.
Cheers,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-04-2018, 11:35 AM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Please do some research about what people do with these bikes. Many remove one of the batteries. You can not run two batteries in parallel with out electrical separation. Due to the different internal resistances they flow current between themselves and run down. (RV folks with twin batteries have a device that separates them.) I'm sure BMW does separate them via an electronic system (generally diodes) but which one is the main battery, I don't know. If you decide to keep both. I recommend you renew both batteries.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:21 PM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is offline
A skeptic and a pragmatist.
Post: 4,259 Thanks: 56
Thanked 744 Times in 656 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, BC Canada
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

I don't have a Ctek.I could check my friend's,may be in his owner's manual the if it is recommended for the Gels.

My charger is one recommended by Odyssey.It has 3 settings.

1- Gel batteries
2- AGM/Wet
3-Pure lead (Odyssey & such)

2-4-8 Amps and a equalizing function.And a conditioning function also.Unlike the Ctek that does the conditioning/equalizing functions automatically and them functions can't be bypassed so it can take a while to fully recharge a battery I can switch some of them functions(On/Off) with my charger.Cuts charging/conditioning/equalizing time from up to 24hrs down to just a few hours.

Yeah my friend thinks his CTek is slow until full charge.

Good owner's manual with my charger.Specific charge voltage is given for the 3 settings.I'll go look at it I think there is a warning in my manual as not to use one of the functions,either equalizing or conditioning? On a Gel battery? I think that charger is smart enough to prevent turning on that function when set to Gel?

CTek? If the same as my friend's? Function thay may damage a Gel may come on automatically? Darn....now got to get out of my slippers and go read my Enerwatt charger manual not that ever want another Gel.
__________________
Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-04-2018, 07:13 PM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Please do some research about what people do with these bikes. Many remove one of the batteries. You can not run two batteries in parallel with out electrical separation. Due to the different internal resistances they flow current between themselves and run down. (RV folks with twin batteries have a device that separates them.) I'm sure BMW does separate them via an electronic system (generally diodes) but which one is the main battery, I don't know. If you decide to keep both. I recommend you renew both batteries.
You make a good point Beech. I had not thought about the second battery being the culprit if I have a parasitic drain situation.
Will check.
Thanks again Beech,
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-05-2018, 11:23 AM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is offline
A skeptic and a pragmatist.
Post: 4,259 Thanks: 56
Thanked 744 Times in 656 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, BC Canada
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

CTek 0.8 does have a desulfatation mode.Pulses current for a few hours at 14.4V.And then on to bulk/absorption modes at also 14.4V but decreasing as SOC goes up.

14.4V? That's rather high for a Gel and may/will damage them.My charger with the Gel function sets the current at 14.1V and will not do an equalizing when set to Gel.

Gellified electrolyte does not absorb the charge as fast as liquid so pushing to high a Voltage at it and battery will overheat and in certain conditions may swell or even explode.

CTek manual states Lead/Acid batteries only.That as far as I can see also includes AGMs as they have the same characteristics.But that Ctek shouldn't be used on batteries such as a Pure Lead AGM Odyssey to recharge it.Tending one with such a charger should be fine but NOT recharging.
__________________
Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'pbegin@burton' for this post:
  #18  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:39 AM
Larry1200 Larry1200 is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Casino, NSW, Australia
Re: CTEK XS0.8 12V Smart Battery Charger

Hello everyone,
Finally got back home and was given a replacement battery from the manufacturer. They tested the battery and it was faulty (dropped a cell ). Fitted the new one, the bike started immediately and is showing a healthy 14.3 volts when running.
Thanks again to all those who helped me figure out the problem.
Larry
__________________
K1200S 2005 Sold
R1200RT 2007
Ducati Monster 1200S
Suzuki GSX1100 1981
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adapted my ProMariner 1.5 Amp Gel Type Battery Charger to the CTEK Socket R111S "K13S" Accessories 0 10-28-2016 09:23 PM
Battery Charger cevets "K13S" Gen. Discussions 13 10-24-2015 04:50 PM
Charging Odyssey Battery with Car Charger? XMagnaRider "K12GT" Technical Q&A 7 01-06-2012 02:44 PM
K1300S battery failure after 1 year in service paul_m "K13S/R" Technical Q&A 45 04-16-2011 07:03 AM
Battery Charger: Observations dwarthog "K12GT" Technical Q&A 13 12-12-2006 11:54 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 AM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 0.59360 seconds with 16 queries