I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1200 Series Motorcycles > K1200RS/GT > "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-22-2012, 08:33 PM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Brake Line Installation - Completed

My '02 had a late '01 build date - so 10 + years I figured I ought to swap out the brake lines. I purchased a set of Spiegler's from the Pirate (thanks Jerry) and went to work.

The kit comes with 6 lines, all tagged for their destination, with a supplied kit of aluminum crush washers, a link block for where three lines come together on the front fork, and a little tool that is supposed to allow you to twist the fitting on the end of the line so that the line will fit without kinks (the lines work as advertised, the little blue tool, not so much, but I'll describe that later.) The lines are beautifully made and have a clear shrink wrap covering on them so that they won't mar the finish should they come into contact with anything.



I started by stripping off all the plastic for three reasons. Initially I knew that when I unbolted the existing lines, despite my best efforts brake fluid would get where I didn't want it to, and the stuff does not work wonders on paint, and two, to get clear access to the lines at the front of the bike removal of the plastic and a few other pieces was necessary, and three, I was planning on the periodic brake fluid flush anyway and needed to get the plastic ouf ot fhe way for that.

With the plastic removed I went to work on the two lines that connect to the rear caliper and rear master cylinder.

I put painter's plastic around the swingarm to protect it and the wheels from the inevitable trickle of brake fluid, took off the rear caliper and wedged the brake pads open with a few wood shims,







there are zip ties that affix the electric line that runs to the ABS sensor on the rear caliper to this line. I cut those ties off - the rear most had, over the years, cut into the cover that protects the electric line and I expect would have eventually severed the line. Whoever put those zip ties on at the factory made them a wee bit tight IMO. In this photo you can see two nuts at the line where it joins the metal fitting on the passenger footrest assembly. Its the nut closest to the junction that loosens. The other nut is part of the assembly that would spin relatively freely so the line doesn't twist upon installation - attempting to unscrew this second nut is futile (DAMHIKT )

And here's a photo of the line that had been cut by the zip tie. I determined that the electrical wire itself was intact and used some shrink wrap to repair the outer covering.



In the above photo note the brake fluid pooling in the plastic - I'd recommend draining the master cylinder reservoirs before pulling the lines - less fluid that way - I should have thought of that first.

The replacement line is a nice clean fit.



You can see the wire that leads to the ABS sensor - I had not yet applied zip ties. The clip in the middle I saved. Its a one use item, but I saved it by sliding it off the stock line and onto the new line. The caliper bolts are specified at 20 NM or 14.75 ft lbs - feels like a lot of torgue I suspect that's because the aluminum crush washers that come with the kit, and are specified by Spiegler, have a fair amount of crush in them.

Out of curiousity I gave the replaced stock line a good look to see if it was bulging or had any noticeable cracks. It wasn't and didn't, but it was quite flexible. So I performed an autopsy, again out of curiousity. The line appeared to be in good shape, and in narrow inner core appeared to have not degraded at all.



The next line up was the one that is tucked behind the passenger footpeg and connects the rear master cylinder,



this is the stock line and the fitting at the bottom requires that you loosen the rear master cylinder bolts on the rear footpeg bracket to allow it to swivel down to gain access to the Allen head. Use good Allen wrenches as you don't want to strip these out. The brake line itself is in a "U" shape, and the ends of the replacement line had to be adjusted to fit, as you can see in this photo,

.

this is where the little blue fitting visible in the first photo is to be clamped to the to the brake line in a vice, and the black plastic piece inserted into the fitting and the end twisted - there's a short video here http://spieglerusa.com/brakes/cycle-...line-kits.html - didn't work. I couldn't get the fitting tight enough to allow the end to turn. Ultimately I used a pliers and the black plastic piece and carefully twisted the end around until I got the fitting to line up correctly, it took a couple of attempts, but I got the line in,



and that's it for the two rear lines. In the next installment I'll go through the front.
Reply With Quote
The following (7) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'CJS350' for this post:
  #2  
Old 03-22-2012, 09:13 PM
Byknrrtl's Avatar
Byknrrtl Byknrrtl is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 636 Thanks: 34
Thanked 100 Times in 68 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Clemmons, NC U.S.A.
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Awesome report and thanx for the pix. Like you, I also bought my Spiegler lines from the Pirate and everything arrived extremely quickly, tagged and fitted perfectly. Along with a thorough flushing I added new non-sintered aftermarket pads. Per the seat of my ever expanding shorts, IMHO the bike felt like it stopped better and it stopped requiring the "double squeeze" on the front brake lever plus I was back to just using 2 fingers instead of feeling like I need to grab a "handful". My '98 KRS may never have that laser sharp "crotch rocket" feel when stopping or decelerating, but what 330 kg bike would? Along with upgraded suspension, I believe my bike feels better than new with the improved brake lines, fresh brake fluid and aftermarket pads. I guess that's part of what makes these vehicles so much fun is not just in the ride but what we can do to personalize and improve the ride.
__________________
Byknrrtl
marrakesh red '98 K1200RS (a.k.a. "the red sled")
vivid black '09 Harley Ultra Classic (my wife has a cup holder again, all is well in my world)
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Byknrrtl' for this post:
  #3  
Old 03-22-2012, 09:56 PM
Lee's Avatar
Lee Lee is online now
Debbie's Servant
Post: 15,031 Thanks: 3,448
Thanked 3,578 Times in 1,708 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SW, IA USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Thanks for the great instructions and pics.
__________________
Lee
2016 R1200RS

Past BMWs
2011 K1300S
03 K1200RS, 91 K75S, 87 K75T, 84 R100RT

Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Lee' for this post:
  #4  
Old 03-23-2012, 12:38 AM
OfftheGrid's Avatar
OfftheGrid OfftheGrid is offline
Watch this......
Post: 1,105 Thanks: 24
Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: You are where you're at, FL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

This shows something that I still do not understand:


See the copper washer (top left of brake lines)?? The BMW OEM crush washers (gasket ring) for the FRONT brake lines only are all copper. The rear lines use aluminium crush washers. The Spiegler lines come with aluminium washers throughout.

Now my knowledge of chemistry is rudimentary - but WHY copper?? Is there some galvanic action that could occur?

BTW - I half bled my brakes when I did this. Used a syringe to empty the master cylinders and then pumped the fluid out of the lines using feet and hands. Very little fluid spillage doing that.

Torque settings for the banjo bolts are very important. 15 N/m for RS models , 18 N/m for LT models with ABS II. All ABSIII (Integral) are 18 N/m.

Good looking lines!
__________________
OfftheGrid

Current Bike: BMW K1200RS 1998 Dolphin Blue
BMW Brake Light (Supplemental LED); ETI H7 HID (35w/5K lm); Stebel Compact Air Horn; PIAA 1100x lights; Red LED Dash; Fuzeblock; Garmin StreetPilot 2820; Escort Passport Max; Spiegler Brake Lines, Michelin PR3s.


Previous Bikes:
Norton Dominator 650SS
Triumph Trident
John Player Norton
Norton Commando
BSA Lightning
BSA Starfire
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-23-2012, 01:51 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OfftheGrid
This shows something that I still do not understand:

See the copper washer (top left of brake lines)?? The BMW OEM crush washers (gasket ring) for the REAR brake lines only are all copper. The front lines use aluminium crush washers. The Spiegler lines come with aluminium washers throughout.

Now my knowledge of chemistry is rudimentary - but WHY copper?? Is there some galvanic action that could occur?!

My fault there. The copper washer came off the OEM line and just happened to be in the picture frame - on my '02 RS, the OEM lines had copper washers on all banjo connections, front and rear. The Spieglers come with, and specifiy the aluminum washers torgued to 14.75 ft lbs or 20 NM.

The OEM lines have steel banjo fittings - thus the copper washers. The Spiegler lines have aluminum banjo fittings thus the aluminum crush washers. Sorry for the confusion.
Reply With Quote
The following (3) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'CJS350' for this post:
  #6  
Old 03-23-2012, 02:19 AM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,542 Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,172 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Great information. The bikes are getting older and need these kinds of up grades. Just a side bar, good idea to wear gloves working with brake fluid, some of it passes through skin and is hard on the kidneys, ...solvent safety.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Vespa
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-23-2012, 03:55 AM
OfftheGrid's Avatar
OfftheGrid OfftheGrid is offline
Watch this......
Post: 1,105 Thanks: 24
Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: You are where you're at, FL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
My fault there. The copper washer came off the OEM line and just happened to be in the picture frame - on my '02 RS, the OEM lines had copper washers on all banjo connections, front and rear. The Spieglers come with, and specifiy the aluminum washers torgued to 14.75 ft lbs or 20 NM.
The OEM lines have steel banjo fittings - thus the copper washers. The Spiegler lines have aluminum banjo fittings thus the aluminum crush washers. Sorry for the confusion.
No fault - that was the great point of the photo. Now I understand why the Spiegler has Al/Al - that makes sense. Thanks!

I see now that on the '02 RS onwards with integral ABS the OEM washers were copper throughout, unlike mine. So why the difference between front and rear on the 98-01 OEM's? All banjo fittings looked like steel to me. (In my initial post I had front and rear the wrong way round - now corrected) And, according to the fiche the 02 onwards without ABS (didn't know it was optional) was the same as the 98-02 RS. My brain hurts. Why the mix between Cu and Al??

And - crap - did I miss the torque requirement in the Spiegler instructions?
__________________
OfftheGrid

Current Bike: BMW K1200RS 1998 Dolphin Blue
BMW Brake Light (Supplemental LED); ETI H7 HID (35w/5K lm); Stebel Compact Air Horn; PIAA 1100x lights; Red LED Dash; Fuzeblock; Garmin StreetPilot 2820; Escort Passport Max; Spiegler Brake Lines, Michelin PR3s.


Previous Bikes:
Norton Dominator 650SS
Triumph Trident
John Player Norton
Norton Commando
BSA Lightning
BSA Starfire
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-23-2012, 12:05 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 510 Times in 450 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Brake Line Installation...

I've thought about the copper and aluminium crush washer thing too. In the ideal world all the materials would be the same - either use steel or copper. But the master cyls. are ali, the banjos it seems can be steel or ali and the center bolts are usually steel, stainless steel, or even steel plated.

When I used copper washers on the front against the master cylinder I had white oxide corrosion visible after a couple of months so I switched to ali and have not seen a problem. Sometimes when metals are mixed its often a good idea to use a metal that is sacrificial - better to sacrifice a washer than a master cylinder!

Another factor if you read up on corrosion in mixed metal braking systems with ali parts, is copper contamination is considered a bad thing for corrosion, once it gets into brake fluid. Everybody jumps to water as being the culprit, but often it is copper metal contamination.

My thoughts are still with ali washers against ali master cylinders, but I forgot all I learned about the electropositivity of metals.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-23-2012, 12:53 PM
OfftheGrid's Avatar
OfftheGrid OfftheGrid is offline
Watch this......
Post: 1,105 Thanks: 24
Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: You are where you're at, FL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
....My thoughts are still with ali washers against ali master cylinders, but I forgot all I learned about the electropositivity of metals.
I think you have forgotten more than I ever learnt!

My issue is that I have a lot of respect for the German engineers - and have a theory that they do everything for a purpose. So - why did they use Al for Integral ABS, and then for non-integral ABS or no-ABS go to Cu up front and Al at the back? Is there a current running somewhere or is there a significant materiel diffference to put in place a potential sacrificial anode etc.

And then there is your issue that runs counter to the above......

Really a strange puzzle.
__________________
OfftheGrid

Current Bike: BMW K1200RS 1998 Dolphin Blue
BMW Brake Light (Supplemental LED); ETI H7 HID (35w/5K lm); Stebel Compact Air Horn; PIAA 1100x lights; Red LED Dash; Fuzeblock; Garmin StreetPilot 2820; Escort Passport Max; Spiegler Brake Lines, Michelin PR3s.


Previous Bikes:
Norton Dominator 650SS
Triumph Trident
John Player Norton
Norton Commando
BSA Lightning
BSA Starfire
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-23-2012, 04:11 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 510 Times in 450 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Perhaps they should have chosen a carbon fiber washer or something non-conductive and I wouldn't worry.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-25-2012, 01:51 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Time for the rest of the story. For the front brakes, the kit contains 4 lines and and connector. The stock lines consist of 3, the lower right and upper right on the stock set up is one line with a connector connecting to the left fork. Its just a matter of disconnecting the stock lines and replacing them with the stainless steel lines from the kit. Following the kit instructions I used the aluminum crush washers, and 14.75 ft. lbs. of torque. I'll keep an eye on them for corrosion.

The line from the front master cylinder meets at a junction on the frame, leading back to the ABS unit and then back to the front. The nut with the white paint on it is the one that must be unscrewed for the line coming from the master cylinder,



the line then leads down to the right front fork, where is continues down in one piece down to the caliper, with a junture block for the connection to the left caliper,



you need the bracket, but the tab interferes with mounting the replacement juncture block, as reflected in the next photo,




so I trimmed it with a cutoff tool on the dremel tool, and its mounted like this,



then just removed the line going to the left side caliper, the stock line in place,




and once all the lines were in place it was time to bleed the brakes. Having replaced all the lines it took nearly two quarts of brake fluid to get fresh fluid flowing throughout the system. Here's a shot from "R3" on the rear ABS unit, there was some crud in the line, if you look close you can see some black floaters in the fluid,




but for the most part the old fluid was a little bit cloudy, but in decent condition, at least as far as I could tell. Here's a couple of tips on bleeding the clutch master cylinder and the front brake master cylinder, there is a hole in the master cylinder that allows the fluid to flow in and out, but with the cover off, fluid can squirt out of the master cylinder and get in places where you don't want it to,



if you lay a quarter in the master cylinder it will just cover the whole and keep the fluid from squirting into all the wrong places,



just remember to remove the quarter before you button everything back up. And one last thought. Have you ever cut yourself on the trimmed end of a zip tie? Well, an old nail clipper will trim the end flush removing that little razor sharp edge that a regular wire cutter will leave behind.



,
So, after the brake fluid flush and bleeding were completed, I squirted the calipers with some brake clean from an aerosol can, and I bolted a the tank and seat back on, and took a ride around the block. I was pleased to see the ABS warning system work properly with the lights shutting off after a few feet. The ride around the back was uneventful, and I'll give everything a good going over before I bolt the rest of the plastic back on.

If it weren't for the complicated brake flush, which has to be done anyway, its a pretty straight forward swap. I'll let you know if I can objectively tell if the brakes are improved when I next hit a twisty road.

Oh and Beech, thanks for the reminder about the gloves - I used them for the second half of this story - I normally wear gloves, but sometimes forget them, but its a good idea to wear them when dealing with any petroleum based product.

Next project? Checking the valve clearances.
Reply With Quote
The following (6) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'CJS350' for this post:
  #12  
Old 03-25-2012, 03:51 AM
Herb's Avatar
Herb Herb is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 2,529 Thanks: 9
Thanked 409 Times in 302 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Excellent pictures and write up. Hope you had fun doing it.
__________________
Herb
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Lee's Avatar
Lee Lee is online now
Debbie's Servant
Post: 15,031 Thanks: 3,448
Thanked 3,578 Times in 1,708 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SW, IA USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350

Here's a couple of tips on bleeding the clutch master cylinder and the front brake master cylinder, there is a hole in the master cylinder that allows the fluid to flow in and out, but with the cover off, fluid can squirt out of the master cylinder and get in places where you don't want it to,



if you lay a quarter in the master cylinder it will just cover the whole and keep the fluid from squirting into all the wrong places,



just remember to remove the quarter before you button everything back up.


That's a great tip I never thought of. The first time Debbie helped me bleed the clutch, she gave the lever a hard squeeze and shot the fluid up out of the reservoir. I had the tupperware off so it didn't hurt any paint.
I finally know why I found a utility knife blade in my front brake reservoir after one of our bikes had been to the dealer for the control circuit bleed.
__________________
Lee
2016 R1200RS

Past BMWs
2011 K1300S
03 K1200RS, 91 K75S, 87 K75T, 84 R100RT

Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Lee' for this post:
  #14  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:30 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 510 Times in 450 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

I thought the same. I think something with a piece of wire on it to fish it out would be good. Must remember not to leave it in there though!

I'll have to think what the equivalent conversion is sizewise for the UK Sterling and Euro coins!

However, don't use anything with copper in it. you don't want copper in the braking system. A genuine old silver dollar would be nice if you still have them. I discovered recently that most of our 'silver' and 'copper' coins were actually magnetic. Devaluation I suppose and hope we won't notice.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:49 PM
pmorritt's Avatar
pmorritt pmorritt is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 903 Thanks: 15
Thanked 191 Times in 151 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Rafael, CA USA
Re: Brake Line Installation...

and once all the lines were in place it was time to bleed the brakes. Having replaced all the lines it took nearly two quarts of brake fluid to get fresh fluid flowing throughout the system. Here's a shot from "R3" on the rear ABS unit, there was some crud in the line, if you look close you can see some black floaters in the fluid,




but for the most part the old fluid was a little bit cloudy, but in decent condition, at least as far as I could tell. Here's a couple of tips on bleeding the clutch master cylinder and the front brake master cylinder, there is a hole in the master cylinder that allows the fluid to flow in and out, but with the cover off, fluid can squirt out of the master cylinder and get in places where you don't want it to,


Extremely nice documentation. Thanku. Did you consider installing speed bleeders? I haven't flushed/changed lines/ mine yet. I have done line changing and flushing on simplier bikes but this system is much more sophiscated. In the above description/pic- the clear tube is being used to flush/fill the rear reservoir-the white plastic one on the rear subframe just above the passenger peg correct? Not the ABS module deep under the seat? Do you/could you post pics of this part in more detail. Thanks as I will be attempting soon and the Clymer manual is daunting in its explaination.
__________________
Marin Phil
2013 K1300S-Anniversary Ed.
2006 KGT2, Blue of course-sold-too many problems
2005 Ducati 999-The I-talian Mistress-sold but missed
2004 KGT, Gen 1, Orient Blue
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:22 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmorritt
Extremely nice documentation. Thanku. Did you consider installing speed bleeders? I haven't flushed/changed lines/ mine yet. I have done line changing and flushing on simplier bikes but this system is much more sophiscated. In the above description/pic- the clear tube is being used to flush/fill the rear reservoir-the white plastic one on the rear subframe just above the passenger peg correct? Not the ABS module deep under the seat? Do you/could you post pics of this part in more detail. Thanks as I will be attempting soon and the Clymer manual is daunting in its explaination.

Not quite sure what you're referring to, the white plastic thing is just an empty plastic bleach container that I routed the tube into to be a receptacle for the old fluid being flushed from the system. And yes I did install speed bleeders on the calipers on the front and rear brakes. The photo you picked out was when I was bleeding/flushing one of the 6 ports on the ABS unit that have to be dealt with.

What year is your bike? If its an '02 or newer you've got the ABSII system, and if that's the case, you'll find the most detailed set of instructions you'll ever find at the first post in this thread - http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=4385

If you think I can answer any questions for you send me a PM - the job of flushing the brake fluid on these bikes can seem a bit intimidating, but its just tedious, exacting, and time consuming - most dealers charge upwards of $200 to do it.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'CJS350' for this post:
  #17  
Old 01-27-2013, 02:57 PM
Flyboy's Avatar
Flyboy Flyboy is online now
(Moderator) MR. GSA Man!
Post: 13,847 Thanks: 2,277
Thanked 1,818 Times in 1,096 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NYC & Lower Hudso, NY usa
Send a message via Skype™ to Flyboy
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

My Spiegler SS lines arrived last week and I'm planning the install next weekend. Once again, thanks for taking the time to document this procedure
__________________
If you want something in your life
you've never had, you'll have to do
something you've never done."

Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2016
04 k1200RS Zebra.Sold
07 R1200GSA
01-SOLD K1171RS
05 R1200GS...SOLD
06 K1200R..SOLD..so long!

Learn something or simply find entertainment on i-bmw? Then why not consider supporting us via a donation?
See the "Donate" link on the NavBar in the middle of every page! Do it now NON NEONS . Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:12 PM
GregRS's Avatar
GregRS GregRS is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 280 Thanks: 3
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Jersey, NJ US
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
My Spiegler SS lines arrived last week and I'm planning the install next weekend. Once again, thanks for taking the time to document this procedure


Sweet!!! A trial run for mine to be done come spring.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:09 PM
jrkapel jrkapel is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 22 Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Manvel, TX USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Plan on doing mine soon.Thanks for the tips!
__________________
2003 K1200RS
2008 HD Street Glide
1986 Honda RWB 700S
2009 KLR650
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-10-2013, 07:10 AM
dmun's Avatar
dmun dmun is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 71 Thanks: 11
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: manassas, va usa
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

excellent post . thanks for taking the time to document it so well. mine need to be done but i think i will have my independent guy do them along with a few other things. did you ever get around to doing the valves?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:26 AM
Tmfaulksr's Avatar
Tmfaulksr Tmfaulksr is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 240 Thanks: 204
Thanked 53 Times in 32 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Abbeville, La USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

a thought about NOT FORGETTING the quarter in the m/cyl reservoir.

in the movie Apollo 13 remember how the astronaut
put a note over the important switch
that would keep them from dying in outer space?

how about a note on the cluster or a place where you know
you will not forget or miss it?

the movie just came to mind.......

i'm about to pull the 24,000 mile maintenance so this came at a great time.
thanks to all that have posted pics & other great ideas for these type repairs.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-10-2013, 10:10 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 510 Times in 450 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

The best thing is to tie a reminder label through a corner hole on the cover. You have to remove the label to refit the cover
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'voxmagna' for this post:
  #23  
Old 02-16-2013, 11:35 AM
Capnrip's Avatar
Capnrip Capnrip is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 2,238 Thanks: 1,562
Thanked 1,518 Times in 769 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gloucester, VA USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

OK, got my Spieglers from Pirate, my buddy lent me his brake bleeder, bought some new fluid and am ready to rock. Always apprehensive when I start one of these projects but thanks to you guys, Clymers and the shop manual they've always worked out so far. If I haven't posted or logged on in a couple of weeks you'll know this one didn't.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:28 PM
chris d holton's Avatar
chris d holton chris d holton is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 284 Thanks: 18
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: northport, mi usa
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Looks like the season for Spiegler brake line upgrade! Just received mine from Pirate also.
Super fast shipping!! Also, Jerry called me directly to ask if I had Barbacks or not. I forgot to indicate I did not.Now that is service!!! Thanks Pirate!!
__________________
You don't have to go fast.....you just have to go.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:41 PM
K-K's Avatar
K-K K-K is online now
A.K.A. "Kumbustible-K"
Post: 3,326 Thanks: 128
Thanked 464 Times in 312 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tiverton, RI USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
My Spiegler SS lines arrived last week and I'm planning the install next weekend. Once again, thanks for taking the time to document this procedure

After helping you do yours I went ahead and ordered a set from Jerry. They're sitting on the lift waiting for me to install them and do the annual service.

Where's that ABSectomy photo you posted?
__________________
Rick


04 K12GT

Tiverton, RI
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:37 PM
Brokerecord's Avatar
Brokerecord Brokerecord is offline
War Horse
Post: 604 Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Monroe, LA USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Thanks, nice pics and report. You don't have to jam the lever, just a steady increase of pressure. Also if you put in a couple hundred miles one day, the next morning I always jiggle my lever short and fast with the bike leaned over as far as possible. Heat displaces moisture in the lowest point, the caliper. Over night the bubbles start climbing back up your lines and the bubbles will go into the resavoir to atmosphere.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-24-2014, 01:06 AM
Quiltzig's Avatar
Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 635 Thanks: 127
Thanked 144 Times in 90 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
The best thing is to tie a reminder label through a corner hole on the cover. You have to remove the label to refit the cover
Another idea on the brake reservoir thingy... I got a washer with a very small hole in the centre of it and tied a thin wire through it. It is handy for pulling the washer out, also serves as a reminder that it is in there. No labels required, or Post-It notes to fall off !
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:13 AM
mondrage mondrage is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 1,541 Thanks: 67
Thanked 431 Times in 293 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Managua, Nicaragua
Send a message via Skype™ to mondrage
Re: Brake Line Installation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OfftheGrid
I think you have forgotten more than I ever learnt!

My issue is that I have a lot of respect for the German engineers - and have a theory that they do everything for a purpose. So - why did they use Al for Integral ABS, and then for non-integral ABS or no-ABS go to Cu up front and Al at the back? Is there a current running somewhere or is there a significant materiel diffference to put in place a potential sacrificial anode etc.

And then there is your issue that runs counter to the above......

Really a strange puzzle.


Tech-Mysteries Solved: ...camera moves to a German Engineer being asked why using different materials for the washers, he just shrugs and says "because we had over stock of the copper ones, and we needed to use it".

and the mystery gets finally solved...
__________________
----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

-----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:33 AM
mondrage mondrage is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 1,541 Thanks: 67
Thanked 431 Times in 293 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Managua, Nicaragua
Send a message via Skype™ to mondrage
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

So Craig, can you tell any difference in braking feel?
__________________
----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

-----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:59 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondrage
So Craig, can you tell any difference in braking feel?

Evind, its been a couple of years now, so its hard to recall. Also, upon performing the installation I also did a complete brake fluid flush and bleeding, and that usually leads to a better feel on the brakes. So, I can't say that I would call the switch an "Ahaa" moment. Yet I know I felt, and feel, more comfortable knowing that I wouldn't have to worry about a line leaking or bursting.

As it happens, not to long after I did this job I got to test the braking system in one of those "OH SHIT" moments, described in the linked thread, so yes I'm glad I made the swap, and heartily recommend doing so,

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=38943
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:15 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 510 Times in 450 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

I doubt you will notice any difference in feel unless something was really bad with the hoses. The most likely result from a complete drain and fluid refill is some trapped air may have come through putting the brakes back to how they should have been. Most of any 'spongyness' you might feel compared to other bikes, will be due to the longer and more complex fluid paths introduced by adding ABS, although I guess that will be hidden with servo brakes.

That is not to say a full brake line replacement doesn't need to be done after 5 years. The rubber hoses will be shedding black stuff into your fluid which can get into the ABS hydro unit. Regular bleeding helps, but the ABS unit inverted as it is, is a nice trap and they are so expensive to replace. Then there is the bulging front brake hose scenario. You hang on the brake, the front dives and the hose pinches closed holding on the brake, or even bursts.

Replacing the lines with ptfe is about as far as you can go in clinical cleaness and longevity. If you still see accumulated blackness or darkening in the fluid, then that would be down to rubber seals. These bikes are old now and the lowest mileage used K bike should have its brake lines changed. I would put them second on the 'must do' list after the fuel disconnects.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:24 PM
mondrage mondrage is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 1,541 Thanks: 67
Thanked 431 Times in 293 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Managua, Nicaragua
Send a message via Skype™ to mondrage
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Well,

The reasons why I will be changing my lines are
1- Rubber hoses are 8 years old now. I read elsewhere, BMW recommends replacing them every 4 years.
2- The right side front hose was eaten by rats. I took it to a local hose shop, and they replaced the hose. I don't like that, it was temporary, but it's been two years.

... regarding the spongy feeling.... well, I replace the fluid every year. So, no.
But I ride the LT hard. When I do a long ride, and going on average about 100mph. After a couple of hours riding, the brake lever gets really, really stiff. All the minor sponginess gone. As if the fluid expanded somehow.
Also, gets a bit more wooden in feeling, not spongy, but Harley-like if that makes sense.
It still brakes hard, but it's not the same feeling. It lakes the bite I'm used to.
Any thoughts there?
__________________
----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

-----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:01 PM
dluttmer dluttmer is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 5 Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Hello all.. Well I just installed new brake lines on my 03 k12gt.. in the process of a brake fluid change. My question about this is that my rear brake does not have any pressure. Have bled all the air out and still no pressure. My question is when I do the abs system will the rear brake then get it's pressure back. I know that the rear brake reservoir is tied with the abs system. Thanks guys..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:58 PM
sailor's Avatar
sailor sailor is online now
K1200RS doctor
Post: 2,156 Thanks: 791
Thanked 1,004 Times in 562 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal, QC Canada
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dluttmer
Hello all.. Well I just installed new brake lines on my 03 k12gt.. in the process of a brake fluid change. My question about this is that my rear brake does not have any pressure. Have bled all the air out and still no pressure. My question is when I do the abs system will the rear brake then get it's pressure back. I know that the rear brake reservoir is tied with the abs system. Thanks guys..

All k1200GT of this generation (2003-2005) have IABS modulator with servos. Same as the K1200RS sold in 2002-2005 (USA market).

This "normal maintenance" bleed procedure is already described in details with photos in the FAQ of this K1200RS forum:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=4385&page=4

BUT, if you replace brake hoses, this "normal" bleed procedure is not always enough as you have introduced a lot more air than normal (while brake hose was removed). In these cases, as suggested in the BMW shop-manual, you will need to use a syringe (or another similar device) to PUSH fluid from the ABS-Modulator nipple toward the brake reservoir (back-filling the Control-circuit).

Experience shows that the REAR Control-circuit is the most difficult to bleed after hose change. It is suggested to use the long nipple for rear circuit and push fluid toward side reservoir (see R3 in attached picture). After this, you still need to bleed usual sequence of REAR Control-circuit (R1 , R2 , R3 and R1 again).

For the Wheel-circuit bleeding, using the ignition ON and the power of the modulator, as suggested in Shop-manual, you recycle fluid from Caliper nipple back into white reservoir until all air is out (only needed if you cannot get air out of Wheel-circuit using normal bleed method).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K1200RS_IABS_Bleeding-points-ports.jpg (163.6 KB, 83 views)
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jean (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 93,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-27-2014, 07:29 PM
Steve B in SD Steve B in SD is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 101 Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Poway, CA usa
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

That's what I did when I replaced my brake lines. I used a syringe to push fluid from the rear caliper to the reservoir. Then, simply bleed the pump as per the instructions, then bleed the wheel circuit, & all should be fine. I didn't have any issues at all, it worked as expected.
__________________
'03 K12RS garage queen
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-28-2014, 09:33 AM
dluttmer dluttmer is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 5 Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Thanks for the info.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-28-2014, 04:21 PM
Quiltzig's Avatar
Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 635 Thanks: 127
Thanked 144 Times in 90 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
The best thing is to tie a reminder label through a corner hole on the cover. You have to remove the label to refit the cover
I attached a piece of this wire to a washer with a very small centre hole, & tie the wire round the handlebar, to pull out washer just lift wire, also a handy reminder.
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-28-2014, 04:24 PM
Quiltzig's Avatar
Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 635 Thanks: 127
Thanked 144 Times in 90 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Sorry posted that last one before...
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-19-2015, 11:23 AM
TonyB54 TonyB54 is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 52 Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nottingham, England
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Hi Guys - notice in the pictures that the original BMW banjo bolts have been re-used. I've just bought a set of Spiegler lines for my K1200RS and included in the pack are some nice shiny banjo bolts with a bolt head rather than the allen key type - must admit didn't realise that new bolts were included - should I use them or is there a reason to re use the BMW ones?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-19-2015, 12:10 PM
Steve B in SD Steve B in SD is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 101 Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Poway, CA usa
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

The Galfer set I bought had new banjo bolts as well. Figured if they include them, they must be designed to work with the fittings on the lines, so it would be better to use them as part of the set.
__________________
'03 K12RS garage queen
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-19-2015, 12:29 PM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB54
Hi Guys - notice in the pictures that the original BMW banjo bolts have been re-used. I've just bought a set of Spiegler lines for my K1200RS and included in the pack are some nice shiny banjo bolts with a bolt head rather than the allen key type - must admit didn't realise that new bolts were included - should I use them or is there a reason to re use the BMW ones?

If they're included you might as well use them, when I did the install the bolts were not included.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-19-2015, 01:05 PM
TonyB54 TonyB54 is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 52 Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nottingham, England
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Thanks guys, that's kind of the way I was thinking, but just wanted to check - especially where brakes are concerned!!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-07-2015, 05:59 PM
Quiltzig's Avatar
Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 635 Thanks: 127
Thanked 144 Times in 90 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

A few tips on brake line replacement as a result of my recent experiences.
For front lines suck fluid from RH handlebar reservoir with a syringe.
Remove lines 1 at a time starting from the lowest points.
As rear reservoirs are vented to atmosphere, place 2 gold tees into the vent tubes which exit at RH side to rear of transmission - this prevents excess fluid dripping out as we as retains fluid in ABS lines to reduce ingress of air.
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-26-2015, 07:03 AM
TONYZ TONYZ is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 15 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SHELLHARBOUR, AUSTRALIA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Sailor,
Thanks for the note regarding "normal" bleed procedure not always being enough when replacing brake lines. I was particularly concerned about that very issue.

I have successfully performed a "normal" brake bleed on my 02 K12 a couple of times without problems, thanks to the excellent instructions by the I-BMW community. However I would like to upgrade my hoses. Problem is I don't really understand what's happening when I bleed the system, particularly the ABS modulator.

Could you or anyone else please describe the fluid paths involved with the Dosing Cylinder, Integral Circuit, Control Circuit and Front Fill Adaptor, say with a simple line / block diagram?

If that's not possible, then a detailed instruction for performing a brake system bleed after a brake line upgrade would be much appreciated.

Regards
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:48 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TONYZ
If that's not possible, then a detailed instruction for performing a brake system bleed after a brake line upgrade would be much appreciated.
Tony

Tony, for what it's worth, when I started this thread, I was unaware of any potential brake bleed issues with a brake line replacement. I replaced the lines and then followed the standard full system bleeding procedure and encountered no difficulty. It's been a couple of years and a fluid flush a time or two and I have no problems.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-26-2015, 04:27 PM
Quiltzig's Avatar
Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 635 Thanks: 127
Thanked 144 Times in 90 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TONYZ
Sailor,
Thanks for the note regarding "normal" bleed procedure not always being enough when replacing brake lines. I was particularly concerned about that very issue.

I have successfully performed a "normal" brake bleed on my 02 K12 a couple of times without problems, thanks to the excellent instructions by the I-BMW community. However I would like to upgrade my hoses. Problem is I don't really understand what's happening when I bleed the system, particularly the ABS modulator.

Could you or anyone else please describe the fluid paths involved with the Dosing Cylinder, Integral Circuit, Control Circuit and Front Fill Adaptor, say with a simple line / block diagram?

If that's not possible, then a detailed instruction for performing a brake system bleed after a brake line upgrade would be much appreciated.

Regards
Tony
Tony... I like you looked for a diagram of the circuits, but did not find one.
My advice is to do several things:
Suck out most of the brake fluid from the front & rear master cylinders.
Insert golf tees into the two rubber breather lines from the twin fluid reservoirs under the ear frame. This further reduces the chances of air getting into the system.
The front lines can be charged with fluid from the front fill adaptor beside the ABS unit.
The rear circuits can be filled from the rear caliper bleed screw by pushing fluid in with a syringe.
Replace one line at a time, to reduce fluid loss and ingress of air.... And to avoid my silly mistake <G>
Hope this helps.
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-26-2015, 06:24 PM
Herb's Avatar
Herb Herb is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 2,529 Thanks: 9
Thanked 409 Times in 302 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

For what it's worth. This link shows some schematics. You just have to find an old "Kraut" to help with the lingo. http://www.powerboxer.de/bremsen/32-...-abs-iii-i-abs

You can copy and paste the nomenclature from the schematics here for translation. http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_en.html
__________________
Herb
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-27-2015, 06:54 AM
TONYZ TONYZ is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 15 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SHELLHARBOUR, AUSTRALIA
Smile Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Thanks guys for your replies.

Herb, the German description is a good start. I selected all the text, then a right click on the mouse provided an option to translate. As expected the translation is quite broken and likely uses a non technical translator. I'll try to make some sense out of it, hoping it will provide enough relevant information. If I am confident with the result I will post it here.
Fortunately the upgrade of the hoses is not a critical job at present.

I prefer not to take on a task like this till I have all the "what if's" covered. I'm a bit funny that way. Though I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'TONYZ' for this post:
  #49  
Old 05-01-2015, 03:04 AM
TonyB54 TonyB54 is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 52 Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nottingham, England
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Further to my previous banjo bolt query, wondered if anyone could shed light on a further query - according to Real OEM parts diagrams for a K1200 RS with integral ABS the Banjo Bolt that attaches the brake line to the front master cylinder is "34327702422 - Hollow Bolt with Throttle" rather than "34322331540 - Banjo Bolt Black". Looking at pictures of the part, the hole in the bottom of the bolt appears a larger diameter though its still a 10x1 size.

On removing the bolt on my bike it was exactly the same as all the other 34322331540 banjo bolts fitted to the bike?

I also notice in the diagram the other end of the line is shown attaching to the junction at the headstock via a banjo and bolt where as on my bike and in the pictures in this thread its an in-line screw in fitting.

Does this mean the parts diagram is incorrect or has the wrong banjo bolt been fitted in the past to my bike?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-01-2015, 04:26 AM
Herb's Avatar
Herb Herb is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 2,529 Thanks: 9
Thanked 409 Times in 302 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...9&rnd=04282014


http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...0&rnd=04282014

Look at above links, in section 34, brakes. Seems to depend on yr.built/production date, how your bike is equipped.
__________________
Herb
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-01-2015, 11:01 AM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB54
I also notice in the diagram the other end of the line is shown attaching to the junction at the headstock via a banjo and bolt where as on my bike and in the pictures in this thread its an in-line screw in fitting.

Does this mean the parts diagram is incorrect or has the wrong banjo bolt been fitted in the past to my bike?

Tony, if this is the photo you are referring to, this is the stock set up, on my '02 KRS, which I have owned from new. My bike's manufacture date was in '01, so it is possible that there was a change somewhere down the line

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-01-2015, 01:03 PM
TonyB54 TonyB54 is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 52 Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nottingham, England
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Yes that's exactly the fitting I've got and so have the Spiegler lines. The parts diagram seems to be the same for all years mistakenly? showing a banjo fitting there. My main query though is more about the banjo bolt at the master cylinder end which according to the parts list is different (and more expensive!) from the standard banjo bolt listed for all the other banjo bolted connections. Do you remember the banjo bolt at the master cylinder end looking any different from the others i.e. having a larger hole up through the middle of the bolt according to parts pictures I've seen, on my bike its definitely just the standard bolt
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-01-2015, 01:08 PM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB54
My main query though is more about the banjo bolt at the master cylinder end which according to the parts list is different (and more expensive!) from the standard banjo bolt listed for all the other banjo bolted connections. Do you remember the banjo bolt at the master cylinder end looking any different from the others i.e. having a larger hole up through the middle of the bolt according to parts pictures I've seen, on my bike its definitely just the standard bolt

No, I don't remember that. I just used the stock banjo bolts, from my bike, using them in the stock locations with the Spiegler lines, no issues and its been several years. You may just be over thinking this - yeah I tend to obsess too sometimes.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-01-2015, 01:17 PM
TonyB54 TonyB54 is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 52 Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Nottingham, England
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Yeah you're probably right that'll teach me for looking at the parts diagram and list!
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-01-2015, 02:50 PM
rxpx40's Avatar
rxpx40 rxpx40 is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 222 Thanks: 24
Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buda, TX USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

CJ- Nice write up. Thanks.

Tony et al,
Your question leads me to wonder. Since our bikes have the servo-assist brake system, there are essentially 2 fluid systems: 1. we'll refer to as low pressure side. This is the hose from the master cylinder that goes to the servo pump. 2. I would call the high pressure side as this is coming from the servo pump to the calipers. The diameter of the hole you refer to down the bore of the banjo bolt may be for a specific location for that bolt. A) larger diameter for more fluid flow to the front calipers since at one point they share a single attachment point. (?) B)The smaller bore banjo bolt would go where a single caliper or connection was the attachment point. Does this make sense? Just thinking out loud here.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-01-2015, 05:57 PM
Bertbrumfield's Avatar
Bertbrumfield Bertbrumfield is online now
WACKY RACER
Post: 4,082 Thanks: 73
Thanked 292 Times in 193 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: kernersville, nc usa
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Nice write up. thanks.
__________________

bert brumfield
Kernersville, NC
2007 K1200GT
2007 K1200R-SPORT
1998 K1200RS [TAXI]
MSF Instructor
RETIRED
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:47 PM
Bergweiserus's Avatar
Bergweiserus Bergweiserus is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 122 Thanks: 40
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin, TX USA
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Ordered my Spieglers last night!! Very excited to do the instal.

Pirate Lair Jerry is awesome and very helpful and thank you for the write up, Craig. Nice and clear.

I have one question: I am not entirely sure I'll have a block of time large enough to complete the line installation AND the fluid flush at the same time. In fact, the fluid might have to wait a week before I am able to get back to working on the bike, due to how busy I am otherwise. Is there any danger in leaving the brake system partially full of air for a week? It'll be 'closed' to the outside air, but will it dry out and muck things up in a week of sitting? If so, I need to look at rearranging my schedule.....

Thanks!
__________________
2003 K1200GT, remapped chip, remus full-system, ohlins suspension, piaa 1100x plati, roadtec z8 rubber, navigator III

99/94 Ducati Monster 900, too many mods to list here...
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Bergweiserus' for this post:
  #58  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:44 PM
CJS350's Avatar
CJS350 CJS350 is online now
Admin/ Site Counsel
Post: 15,910 Thanks: 4,206
Thanked 6,679 Times in 2,763 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergweiserus
Ordered my Spieglers last night!! Very excited to do the instal.

Pirate Lair Jerry is awesome and very helpful and thank you for the write up, Craig. Nice and clear.

I have one question: I am not entirely sure I'll have a block of time large enough to complete the line installation AND the fluid flush at the same time. In fact, the fluid might have to wait a week before I am able to get back to working on the bike, due to how busy I am otherwise. Is there any danger in leaving the brake system partially full of air for a week? It'll be 'closed' to the outside air, but will it dry out and muck things up in a week of sitting? If so, I need to look at rearranging my schedule.....

Thanks!

Thanks. I'm not sure I have a definitive answer for you, however, I think the main concern would be having the ABS unit (particularly a servo ABS unit US RS/GT models '02-'05, and Canada and Europe models got servo ABS in '01 I think) dry - and simply disconnecting the old brake lines and installing the new ones won't cause the ABS unit to drain - new fluid will flush the old out of the unit, so I think you should be OK. And for what its worth, I didn't do all the lines at the same sitting, and I don't recall that I changed the fluid out immediately either, and knock on wood, it still works.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'CJS350' for this post:
  #59  
Old 01-18-2018, 06:01 PM
Jako Jako is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 67 Thanks: 11
Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York, NY United State
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergweiserus
Ordered my Spieglers last night!! Very excited to do the instal.

Pirate Lair Jerry is awesome and very helpful and thank you for the write up, Craig. Nice and clear.

I have one question: I am not entirely sure I'll have a block of time large enough to complete the line installation AND the fluid flush at the same time. In fact, the fluid might have to wait a week before I am able to get back to working on the bike, due to how busy I am otherwise. Is there any danger in leaving the brake system partially full of air for a week? It'll be 'closed' to the outside air, but will it dry out and muck things up in a week of sitting? If so, I need to look at rearranging my schedule.....

Thanks!
My recommendation is to review as much as you can on the forum prior to doing the brake line job. Do front and back separate. I had some problems with the back and I believe others have also. There is a you tube video for the K1200LT "New Brake Line Installation Tip" by Illinois BMW. This was not available when I did my lines but I do believe it has benefits.
Sorry I do not have any advice about leaving the lines partially complete. Best of luck. I also believe the BMW manual states NOT TO USE a vacuum.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Jako' for this post:
  #60  
Old 01-18-2018, 08:13 PM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is offline
A skeptic and a pragmatist.
Post: 4,259 Thanks: 56
Thanked 744 Times in 656 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, BC Canada
Re: Brake Line Installation - Completed

Time? Only takes a few minutes to bleed the wheel circuits.I bled the whole system yesterday.Hum GS911 showed failed front wheel circuit bleed test.Bled again and same results.

Hum....powered up the servos,applied the brakes and tied the lever to the bar.Slept on that....in the shop early and right away noticed the leaky bleeder.Snugged it up and passed the bleed test.

Used up too much of my good Pentosin LV fluid >500ml but what the heck,I'll buy more of that good stuff.

But study the BMW manual procedure for line replacements.Install new lines and refill the wheel circuits from the calipers bleeders with the bubble free injector aka the big syringue.Takes longer to read that procedure than to apply it.

Refill as per the EASY BMW procedure then you'll know there is fluid in there.Bleed after/later? As per the BMW procedure.
__________________
Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'pbegin@burton' for this post:
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing Fuel Line Quick Disconnects on a K1200S IMXMAN "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 82 06-03-2018 06:23 PM
K1200LT 2000 w/ABS Front Brake Line Replacement mrgary K1200LT 1 07-14-2010 11:22 PM
Brake Line Replacement Interval? MaicoBMW BMW R-Series 3 09-24-2008 11:53 AM
K1200 Front Brake Line Issue tom48 "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A 0 08-31-2008 09:03 PM
Burst brake line kgrao "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A 4 07-02-2008 10:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:56 AM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 2.18376 seconds with 16 queries