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"K13S "Tires Different tire-brands and suggestions

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:40 PM
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Tire wear and Performance

This is a subject I know a little about, but really don't fully understand. I do understand heat cycles and that too many, and your rubber side loses some of its performance abilities.

What I'd like to know more about is tire tread wear and how it affects performance.

I know most tires feel terrific when brand new. I know that when tires square off, transition from side to side can become 'choppy', or less smooth.

What I'd like to know, is what are the other telltale signs that your tires, which still look good, are shot?

I rode Sunday for about 240 miles in 50F temps, no wind. On smooth perfect pavement turns, my KS handled predictably. On less than perfect pavement, my front end felt like it wanted to break loose in the turns, like a mild, very mild tank slapper...any worse, and I would have started to become concerned, but I did get the 'Oh, what the heck was that about?' thoughts.

My tires are PR4's @ ~ 6,000 miles, with almost no cupping, my shocks are top of the line Wilbers @ ~10,000 miles.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:47 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

I would say change the tire . I'm sure even though it looks fine its sounds to me like it's time .

Would not be the first time I've heard this before .
Its happened to me and others I know .
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:09 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

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Originally Posted by sbk12rs
I would say change the tire . I'm sure even though it looks fine its sounds to me like it's time .

Would not be the first time I've heard this before .
Its happened to me and others I know .
So, what do you think was going on there? Too much flex in the belts?
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:25 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

John ... my take .... with a contact patch the size of half a dollar bill , any tire with more than 5k is shit !

Why would anyone want more out of a sport bike tire ?
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:27 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

John:

I am a rider that never tries to get every last mile out of my tires. I don't know what you experienced but keep this in mind. I have felt in the bars minor road imperfections - or for example hitting a small rock or acorn and those examples transfer to your hands like you just bent the rim. If you were riding at a good pace with a good amount of lean on less than perfect road surface - you will feel it in the bars. In fact nothing going on with the tires.

Now PR4's and many other tires at 6K miles are at the very least on their way out and may have from slight to moderate cupping or a flat spot with an edge and when leaned over you most certainly will feel it.

You know me I would be putting a new set of tires on by that mileage already because I can't ever get to 6K miles on a set.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:28 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbk12rs
John ... my take .... with a contact patch the size of half a dollar bill , any tire with more than 5k is shit !

Why would anyone want more out of a sport bike tire ?

The subduction is the amount of tread you see when you look at it...the reality, is what you just said bro.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:38 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

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Originally Posted by brucev
John:
I don't know what you experienced but keep this in mind. I have felt in the bars minor road imperfections - or for example hitting a small rock or acorn and those examples transfer to your hands like you just bent the rim.

Bruce, what I felt, was a slight wobble in the bars, along with a slight pogo of the front end. Now, we know the duolever front doesn't want to anything but remain stable...

Many times, I can ride through a turn one handed because my suspension is tuned so well...no effort to it, stable as heck...smooth, all good, as opposed to what I just described above.

Is it the tires? Or was I smoking sumthin'?
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:41 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Good question... As a professional tire trasher... the way I know it's time to change tires is when I start to notice that counter-steering takes more effort.. I can tell after a ride if my shoulders or hands are sore... Almost without exception I change my tires with at least 500-900 miles left on them as the steering gets harder and less precise....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
What I'd like to know, is what are the other telltale signs that your tires, which still look good, are shot?.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2014, 07:49 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
Good question... As a professional tire trasher... the way I know it's time to change tires is when I start to notice that counter-steering takes more effort.. I can tell after a ride if my shoulders or hands are sore... Almost without exception I change my tires with at least 500-900 miles left on them as the steering gets harder and less precise....
That's exactly what I am trying to learn here...I want to get more in tune with what I should know that I DON'T SEE.

Exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:58 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
Good question... As a professional tire trasher... the way I know it's time to change tires is when I start to notice that counter-steering takes more effort.. I can tell after a ride if my shoulders or hands are sore... Almost without exception I change my tires with at least 500-900 miles left on them as the steering gets harder and less precise....
Jerry:

I also use that as a guide. For example the PR4's on my KS have 3.5K miles on them they look good but the steering feels so slow and I have to really put a good effort into turning - time to go.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:08 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Hard question John. I think the outside temperature of 50 F may have something to do with your feeling that your front end wanted to break loose in some of the corners. We all know that warm tires will give you better traction. So , I think the opposite will happen when tires are cold.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:30 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

I like to see tread showing before I spit out more money on tires.



Seriously, there was what I thought to be 1k miles left on those tires when I got there. They just wore really fast.

I don't change tires when I start to feel them squared off because I live in Florida and expect that. I usually end up changing them prior to a trip to the mountains. It is a hard call because I do end up walking away from tires that I could still use locally. Sometimes it is a dicey call (like the picture above, in hindsight I should have put new rubber on). What ended my riding was the front losing its grip. Enough of that shit!

I have never gotten 6k miles out of a tire on any of my K bikes. These tires were toast at 4k.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:30 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Back in the late 80's and early 90's used to get 10 to 15K out of a rear, 15 to 20K out of a front touring-sport touring tire. I surely wouldn't push them as I do today's tires; but they did give a "service life" for their nominal cost.

Now I grimace if it is more than 20 miles to some good roads because I don't want to waste a $150+ tire good for only 4000 miles max on a monotonous super-slab. And every touring-sport touring tire is addled with horizontal rain groves that horrifically "cup" half way into their tread life.

IMO there is a greedy, soulless, corporate test-tube baby heading all the tire manufactures who only okays short lived rubber compounds, or tread designs that look like a poorly laid brick driveway after 3000 miles. He is evil, and he must be destroyed!
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:43 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Joe, I've only gotten one set of tires down anywhere near that point, the Metzler M3's that came with the bike...they felt good right until the end.

My PR3's on the KRS with about 6,500 miles-the front feels like it's losing some grip, then these PR4's on the KS with 6,000...both rears look like they have another 2,500 left, the PR3 front, 1,000 left, the PR4 front, 2,500 left.

The PR3's, I doubt I will put more than 300 miles on it before Spring, at which time I'll change them. The PR4's...I might change them after the next ride depending on what I learn here, or feel on them the next time out.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:46 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconcan
Hard question John. I think the outside temperature of 50 F may have something to do with your feeling that your front end wanted to break loose in some of the corners. We all know that warm tires will give you better traction. So , I think the opposite will happen when tires are cold.
Chris, they weren't slipping. The rear felt fine. The front just felt bouncy, wobbling my bars a bit, on less smoothly paved turns.

In the past, the front end absorbed these types of irregularities in the road, and it never translated to the bars the way it did this time.
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:05 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I like to see tread showing before I spit out more money on tires.



Seriously, there was what I thought to be 1k miles left on those tires when I got there. They just wore really fast.

I don't change tires when I start to feel them squared off because I live in Florida and expect that. I usually end up changing them prior to a trip to the mountains. It is a hard call because I do end up walking away from tires that I could still use locally. Sometimes it is a dicey call (like the picture above, in hindsight I should have put new rubber on). What ended my riding was the front losing its grip. Enough of that shit!

I have never gotten 6k miles out of a tire on any of my K bikes. These tires were toast at 4k.
How do you keep your tires that nicely rounded off in FL?! Mine have a flat area down the center so perfect it looks like it was cut on a lathe.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundMountain
How do you keep your tires that nicely rounded off in FL?! Mine have a flat area down the center so perfect it looks like it was cut on a lathe.

Take them to a couple of rallies and ride with these hooligans! These tires had a little over 2k miles on them prior to DGR and I finished them off at the AHR with just about 4k miles.

My bike has 10k miles on them and I am about to put my third set of tires. Just to be fair, I took the OEM crap off early. I hated them.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:06 AM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundMountain
How do you keep your tires that nicely rounded off in FL?! Mine have a flat area down the center so perfect it looks like it was cut on a lathe.

Back in the day I would make it a point to get to the twisties after every 500+ miles of urban warfare. They'd wear much more evenly(as shown) and the handling would remain consistent.
Now that I'm no longer doing "urban warfare" on a regular basis the rain grooves on the sides of the tires disappear long before before the center tread is used up.
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Old 11-25-2014, 06:55 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
Joe, I've only gotten one set of tires down anywhere near that point, the Metzler M3's that came with the bike...they felt good right until the end.

My PR3's on the KRS with about 6,500 miles-the front feels like it's losing some grip, then these PR4's on the KS with 6,000...both rears look like they have another 2,500 left, the PR3 front, 1,000 left, the PR4 front, 2,500 left.

The PR3's, I doubt I will put more than 300 miles on it before Spring, at which time I'll change them. The PR4's...I might change them after the next ride depending on what I learn here, or feel on them the next time out.

Under just about the same conditions as the ride in the OP, I tried to recreate the wobble. It wasn't to be. Matter of fact, the bike felt fine, just like always.

I must have been doing something a bit different on those two or three corners, or, they were paved weird and hit them just right.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:03 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
Under just about the same conditions as the ride in the OP, I tried to recreate the wobble. It wasn't to be. Matter of fact, the bike felt fine, just like always.

I must have been doing something a bit different on those two or three corners, or, they were paved weird and hit them just WRONG.

Fixed! It could have very easily been road surface giving you the problem.
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:09 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

What tire pressures were you running?
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:52 PM
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Re: Tire wear and Performance

I was running 38/42
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