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  #1  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:49 AM
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How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

I have recently inspected and replaced the slide rail and tensioner lining on my 2002 KRS with 155,000 km's on the clock. There was no apparent chain rattle or noises alerting me to the need to do this, but figured age and mileage were no longer on my side. I coordinated this task with my annual winter maintenance as many parts needed to be removed. This also included a service of the Ohlins so these have also been removed.
This job is a little more complicated and difficult than swapping camshaft bucket shims and considerably more complex than just checking them. You will need a light ľ inch torque wrench and a heavier 1/2 inch torque wrench but if you have done your shims in the past you will already have these on hand
I have used Clymer for detailed directions and MAX BMW parts fiche to check assembly sequence if needed. Where I refer to Clymer I have noted in brackets the diagram and page number.
The basis for this thread is sharing how to create a very nice thin bead of silicone along with a few pointers on changing the liners. I have not included details on basic removal/installation of parts as it would morph into a massive thread.
You want as much free space around the front of the bike to work with as you possibly can and this will become very apparent during assembly. Take lots of photos of everything because as much as you tell yourself how could I possibly forget where this or that goes, you WILL forget.
So, to start remove all the front end plastics including the belly pan, remove the tank and the air intake snorkel, drain the coolant system and the engine oil, remove both radiators, all radiator hoses, front guards, and the very pesky belly pan mount that attaches near the coolant connection on top of the motor beside the #1 inlet. This is a real PITA if left in situ so take it off. Also support the motor and remove the front wheel. Having all the hoses and radiators off gives you an opportunity to inspect and clean all these items. If the upper coolant connection fitting has never been removed now is also a good time to do so and inspect for any corrosion and possible seal damage.
Next remove the crankshaft and camshaft covers, which need to come off so you can install the timing chain cover later on. If the screws that hold these covers on are weeping a little oil, give them a good boil up in water with a little detergent to clean them. The hot water will revitalize the rubber and theyíll be good as new.


Getting right amongst it, and it looks a bit scary seeing everything opened up. Note hall sensor lifted up out of harms way.

I also recommend you take off the water/oil pump housing cover. Reason being it gives you an excellent opportunity to practice installing a smaller item before dealing with the much larger and awkward timing cover, and also gives you a visual on the impeller.


Water pump cover removed and cam chain securely zip tied to prevent slipping off crank shaft sprocket

Next step is to remove the hall sensor cover, the hall sensor and backing plate. Mark the position of the sensor in relation to the housing so it goes back in EXACTLY the same position, then the sensor should be taped up away from harm. Details of hall sensor removal can be found from page 287. Open up the wiring loom junction box and disconnect the oil temp and water temp sender wires and gently pull them out of the junction box. Disconnect both wires from their switches (fig 23, p86) located under the water/oil pump. I found that the outer plastic cover from the water temp switch wire was hard and snapped very easily but the wire itself was fine, so I cut off the connector at the junction box end, pulled the wire out of itís cover and threaded it back into the cover the other way before soldering and heat shrinking the connector back on. If the wire itself has become hard and cracks when bent build a new one using the original top connector and a new generic bottom connector.


Wire from the water temperature sensor all hard,cracked and broken

Next is to lock the chain tensioner with a 1/8th drill bit. This is located behind the only torx head screw on the timing cover. Remove the screw and insert the drill bit backwards into the hole until you feel it bed home. (Dia 17, p84)
Now it's time to remove the timing chain cover. Remove all the screws, noting that the perimeter screws are all the same length and the remaining inner two are a little longer. Once all removed, give the cover a tap with a rubber mallet to loosen it and the cover will pop off. There are several locating pins so the cover does need to come out and away from the motor, not sideways... Now you can thread the oil and water switch wiring that you have disconnected from the junction box back through the hole in the cover.
ZIP TIE THE CAM CHAIN TO THE THREE SPROCKETS. (inlet, exhaust and crank,) I can't emphasize this enough because if the cam chain unknowingly skips a tooth on any sprocket the damage is likely terminal to your motor at startup.


Cam chain securely zip tied to cam shaft sprockets. Note that the inlet sprocket screw has been removed


Lots of free play in the chain

There are very detailed instructions starting p91 on the removal and installation of the rails and guides so I won't go into details here. My upper guide was like new and the lower tensioner lining had minimal wear, but both are available a little cheaper as a kit from MAX BMW so both were replaced and recommended to do so.


The wear was minimal for 155,000 km's


New guide in place. Note the clips and where they go. Easy to incorrectly install them for sure

You will also need a new hall sensor gasket, and if you have the earlier crank shaft seal it would be a good time to replace it with a new teflon item (dia 28, p87)
You will need to remove the cam chain slide rail (B, fig50, p92) and also remove the intake cam sprocket retaining screw. Be sure to hold the camshaft steady with a 17mm spanner before removing the screw. The intake camshaft sprocket will need to come off the camshaft to facilitate removal and install of the upper cam chain guide. Now you will be glad you zip tied the chain to the sprockets.


Torque wrench on the sprocket locking screw while an open-ended spanner/wrench stops the cams from turning

With the new guide and rail installed and the clips all fitted up, it is time to clean all the covers and ensure there is no old sealant clinging to the mating edges.


Cam cover cleaned up and timing case cover well cleaned of any old silicone and prepped with contact cleaner. Note the drill bit sticking out of the cover holding the tensioner in place

Inspect the internal side of the water pump cover for flaking paint and if this is evident, remove all the paint with paint stripper. Leave the surface unpainted.


I mentioned this point because this was my water pump cover a couple of years back when I had black flakes in my coolant.


And after with all the paint removed

Carefully remove the locking pin from the tensioner and remove and inspect the parts. There is likely no wear but it's an opportunity to have a look and see how it works. Hold your thumb over the tensioner before pulling the drill bit out so parts don't fly to the four corners of your work area.


I have turned the screw bit around so you can identify it in the image. It catches a shoulder on the tensioner to stop it springing out

Clean the cover and engine mating surfaces with contact cleaner. Build yourself several piping bags from kitchen parchment or baking paper as outlined below. I would suggest three or four of them so you have spares if needed.


Start with a triangle of kitchen paper to roughly these dimensions. Mark the centre of the long side as this becomes the point


Fold one side around to create half the bag


Then fold the other side to create a bag. Hold it between thumb and forefinger and adjust the bag so the tip is nice and closed by moving your thumb and forefinger back and forth a little bit. Wont take much.


Then staple it to stop it moving. Repeat this several times so you have spares as you will need them later. You can make the bag bigger if you want if it's easier to work with.

Installation is pretty much the reverse of removal, so please follow Clymer implicitly to be sure you get it right. There are some very small washers with cutaways that will need your attention and a good eye!
Once you are ready fill the piping bag with a teaspoon or so of silicone and roll or fold the open end of the piping bag to seal it closed.


Squirt some silicone into the bag. This was enough for the water pump cover but much more is needed for the timing cover

Start with the water pump cover and having cut a very small amount off the tip of you piping bag with a pair of scissors, carefully squeeze a bead of silicone onto the mating surface.


Image of the bag with the tip cut off. Best to start small and cut off more if you need to make a bigger hole and a bigger bead of silicone

I would practice squeezing a nice bead of silicone as a dummy run to be sure Iím happy with the result. Try to keep your bead to the outside edge rather than the inside edge so when it is torqued up the excess will push to the outside and not to the internal side where it might mix with coolant water etc. Also, run you bead around the inside of the screw holes. Once you have applied a continuous bead of silicone offer up the water pump cover to the housing.


It will take a little patience and practice but the end result shout look like this

Have a couple of screws at the ready so you can quickly fit them by hand to finger tight. This is to ensure the cover does not slide about spreading the silicone all over the mating surface. Then fit the remaining screws and torque them to 9 Nm, in a criss-cross pattern.


Once you have torqued the screws any excess should come to the outside. Once fully cured the excess will pull away easily

Once you have completed this and happy with your results, move on to the timing cover. If you are fitting a new crank shaft seal you will need to follow directions having decided to either shape it to fit by hand or use the BMW tool. Follow instructions (Dia 28, p87 to p90) on how to do this. Personally I have the new seal as oem so it was left untouched. I would suggest, however, regardless whether you have a new seal or not, that it would be prudent to do a Ďdry fití before the final assembly to ensure the seal goes over the shaft. Once happy and after ensuring all the surfaces are spotlessly clean it is time to apply the silicone to the cover. Dia33, p89 shows in detail where to apply the silicone and donít forget the two screw hole bosses in the centre of the cover. Also, apply a dot of silicone to the lap between the engine block and the cylinder head, both top and bottom, just to be extra sure.


This shot clearly shows the lap between the engine and the head. A little dab of silicone top and bottom to be sure.

If the original piping bag that was used to fit the water pump cover has been sitting a while, it is probably best to fill a fresh one as the silicone may have started to go off and will come out lumpy. Again, have some screws at the ready and carefully offer up the cover, ensure the crank shaft seal has not been compromised and tap the cover over the locating pins. Fit all the screws and torque to 9 Nm. Remove the drill bit and fit the torx screw.
Next is to install the hall sensor (p288). After that itís a check, clean and reassembly process for all the bits and bobs you have removed.
Note, when refilling the radiators, Clymer recommends cranking the engine on the starter motor and squeezing the lower radiator hoses to remove any air bubbles. This is done with the transmission in gear, side stand down and the clutch engaged. However, the plugs WILL foul very quickly if this approach is taken so remove the plugs before doing this. If you donít you will have to afterwards anyway as the engine wont run with fouled plugs. Donít ask me how I know thisÖ
All the best and I hope this helps anyone considering undertaking this task themselves. All feedback and comments welcome as I have probably left something out that should have been included. I know I should have taken lots more photos to share here...
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The family history:
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:27 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Excellent write up Rich, thanks!

Made the thread "Sticky".
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:11 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Impressive write up and work, thanks for taking the time, we all appreciate it!
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:38 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Awesome job, I love this stuff.
Another excellent sticky too, well done.
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:39 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Is the brick motor BMW best motor to date. So many of these motor have so many miles on them
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:54 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

So there is no way to replace these guides without taking apart the whole front end, timing chain cover, etc.? It seems I've come across instructions (Gunsmoke, etc.) that imply these guides can be done while doing the valve adjustments (i.e. buckets), without taking off all the front end stuff. From what I read, I was under the impression they can be accessed from the side once the cam sprockets and shafts are pulled.

I'm getting ready to open stuff up to check the valves on my '98 K1200RS (182K miles on engine, loud at idle). Was hoping to be able to change these guides while doing any valve adjustments, since it seems I'm also getting a lot of chain noise (to my ears), without opening up the front covers.

Thanks!
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:05 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Excellent job!
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:31 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Bruce, anything is possible I guess, but this is an awkward job at the best of times and having a whole lot stuff in your way will be very frustrating. You can certainly leave the front mud guards and wheel in place and obviously no need to remove the front shock however the radiators need to come off and that pesky belly pan fairing mount that I mentioned in my post. If you haven't had the rads off it is a good time to give them some attention and make sure they are clean and free of corrosion.
Supporting the motor and removing the front wheel and guards doesn't take long and will make your task easier IMO.
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1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:20 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
So there is no way to replace these guides without taking apart the whole front end, timing chain cover, etc.? It seems I've come across instructions (Gunsmoke, etc.) that imply these guides can be done while doing the valve adjustments (i.e. buckets), without taking off all the front end stuff. From what I read, I was under the impression they can be accessed from the side once the cam sprockets and shafts are pulled.

I'm getting ready to open stuff up to check the valves on my '98 K1200RS (182K miles on engine, loud at idle). Was hoping to be able to change these guides while doing any valve adjustments, since it seems I'm also getting a lot of chain noise (to my ears), without opening up the front covers.

Thanks!

Yes, you need to remove many parts as described by FlyingKiwi (and CLYMER manual and the BMW shop manual).

I have read the articles on GunSmoke web site many years ago and I have not seen anything simple like you imply above (nothing was added in his text since as he sold the bike a long time ago).
GunSmoke articles here (index on right side column): http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/k1200rs/index.html

SO... I would really like to know WHO exactly is trying to tell it can be done with a valve job ?
Of course, I know it cannot. At best, you can see only part of the lower guide / tensionner while doing the valve job - so forget about removing it from the side (any side).
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:36 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
So there is no way to replace these guides without taking apart the whole front end, timing chain cover, etc.? It seems I've come across instructions (Gunsmoke, etc.) that imply these guides can be done while doing the valve adjustments (i.e. buckets), without taking off all the front end stuff. From what I read, I was under the impression they can be accessed from the side once the cam sprockets and shafts are pulled.

I'm getting ready to open stuff up to check the valves on my '98 K1200RS (182K miles on engine, loud at idle). Was hoping to be able to change these guides while doing any valve adjustments, since it seems I'm also getting a lot of chain noise (to my ears), without opening up the front covers.

Thanks!

One more item I forgot in my earlier post:
Given your mileage, I would also plan to inspect very carefully the WHOLE tensionner mechanism. I have seen a few tensionner where the piston was stuck and worn on higher mileage K1200 (above 100 K miles). The cam chain will last a very long time, but the tensionner may need to be replaced.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:10 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
So there is no way to replace these guides without taking apart the whole front end, timing chain cover, etc.? Thanks!

Just read your post again, and NO you cannot do this with the timing cover in place. Some owners I believe have tried to do this with the cam and crank covers still in place. Bad call. Even if you do manage to get the timing chain cover off without damaging it, you will not get a satisfactory seal when you put it back together. You will spend considerably more time trying to take shortcuts and having to redo the job than you would if you do all the removal preparation first.
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Current rides:
2002 K1200RS. Owned from new. Pacific Blue, Ohlins, Speiglers, Fiamms, HID, Factory GT heated seat. 172,000km
1991 K1. Schwartz metallic black, fully restored. 74,000km SOLD
1987 K100RS Style. Black, Ohlins, Race Tech springs, Braided lines. Fully restored. 53,000 miles. SOLD
The family history:
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
1916 Triumph Type H, Battle of the Somme, France WW1 - my Granddads ride
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:32 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Your point of quickly getting 2 or 3 screws in place can be made easier by using 2 studs.....back in my BOSS-302 days I used studs in the bell housing so I did not need to hold the top-loader (100lbs?) and align bolts....I replaced a lot of clutches in that car.....
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:24 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Got it. Thanks all! Looking at the pics, it's obvious that you need to go all the way in to get to everything. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some "trick" to make things easier.

I saw in more than one place the recommendation to do the lining replacement along with the valve adjustment "while you're in there," which I took to mean that it could be accomplished by only accessing the same areas needed for valve bucket swapping. In particular, the old GunSmoke instructions show accessing the cams, valves, etc., only from the valve cover side and a pic of the old liner and has the statement:

"BMW recommends that the facing on the cam chain tensioner rail and cam chain guide be replaced every 36,000 miles, and since you'll be in there anyway you may want to have these parts handy, too."

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling...ves/index.html

I guess he didn't include the additional instructions to access the tensioner mechanism in the write-up.

Sailor - I will definitely inspect all the tensioner assembly components while I'm in there. Don't want to go back in again. I'm also toying with the idea of just putting in a low-mileage replacement engine as a winter project (waiting to hear back on one from a 2003).
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:01 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Getting ready to start into disassembling things and ordering all the parts (after I determine what valve bucket sizes I need). I have a few quick questions:

- Is the part number for the new Teflon crankshaft seal that gets installed in the timing cover 11147654531 ? How risky is it to replace this without the special BMW tools?

- Is the part number for the Hall sensor gasket 11141460307 ?

- Clymer mentions replacing the "thrust piece", which is not included with the lining repair kit (pg. 97, fig. 70). This part is cheap, but looks like it needs a press for replacement. Should this be done as well, since I've got 180K+ miles on the bike? If so, any ideas on how to remove/install without a press, or should I just buy a small/cheap press?

- I plan to use Permatex Ultra-Black sealant for the water pump cover and timing cover (since it's readily available near me). Is this an appropriate sealant for this?

Thanks!!
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:41 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Hi bj, answers to your questions in text below

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
Getting ready to start into disassembling things and ordering all the parts (after I determine what valve bucket sizes I need). I have a few quick questions:

- Is the part number for the new Teflon crankshaft seal that gets installed in the timing cover 11147654531 ? How risky is it to replace this without the special BMW tools?

Yes, part number is correct. No problem fitting new seal without special tools as the lip is formed with your finger gently annealing the seal lip to fit. Follow instructions in Clymer, p88, 4B

- Is the part number for the Hall sensor gasket 11141460307 ?

Yes, this is correct

- Clymer mentions replacing the "thrust piece", which is not included with the lining repair kit (pg. 97, fig. 70). This part is cheap, but looks like it needs a press for replacement. Should this be done as well, since I've got 180K+ miles on the bike? If so, any ideas on how to remove/install without a press, or should I just buy a small/cheap press?

I doubt it will have worn however you will need to decide that when you pull it down and make your own decision. Post a photo or two

- I plan to use Permatex Ultra-Black sealant for the water pump cover and timing cover (since it's readily available near me). Is this an appropriate sealant for this?

3 bond is the weapon of choice. I believe some members here have used Permatex however I have no experience with it. Whatever you use, it needs to be soft enough so you can pipe a very fine line of it as per my photos. I an currently pulling down a '91 K1 and the job did not go well for the PO...

Thanks!!
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Current rides:
2002 K1200RS. Owned from new. Pacific Blue, Ohlins, Speiglers, Fiamms, HID, Factory GT heated seat. 172,000km
1991 K1. Schwartz metallic black, fully restored. 74,000km SOLD
1987 K100RS Style. Black, Ohlins, Race Tech springs, Braided lines. Fully restored. 53,000 miles. SOLD
The family history:
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
1916 Triumph Type H, Battle of the Somme, France WW1 - my Granddads ride
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:43 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Thanks Kiwi! I'll probably just pick up the thrust piece (since cheap) and decide once I get in there if I'm going to replace it. I'll try to chase down some 3-Bond, probably will have to order it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:08 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Another quick question. Is it necessary to drain all the oil? I know there will be a little residual in the areas I'm opening up, but is there anywhere it will "gush out" of if I leave it full? I just changed the oil less than 100 miles ago, so hate to waste it if I don't have to.

Thanks!
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:50 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Oil sits in the sump so you are good to go. You will need a drip tray if you are a little precious about your garage floor...
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Old 09-15-2016, 07:36 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Great write up and I wasn't surprised you would be making ice cream cones!

I hope you are not using bathroom or building silicone sealants? They don't have the same specs as automotive gasket sealer. I used to use the tubes, but now I buy a pressure can of black gasket because I can go back to it after opening and it is still liquid. There's a lever on the side you squeeze which is great for running continuous beads.

Your photos show what others have found that the guides don't wear that much. I checked mine at 43K and they were like new.

I was puzzled about the small piston oil feed pump for lubricating the chain. There's not a lot written about it, how you test it or whether any parts need replacing? There are many past posts about timing cover leaks and I had to do a serious machining mod. to be satisfied mine wouldn't do the same. Memory is fading but I identified that high oil pressure is fed through the cover which can leak at the seams or pour inside creating a well of excess oil for the chain and sprockets to thrash around in. Of course you can't see any of this and BMW never made a clear acrylic version of the timing cover for testing!
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:18 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
Oil sits in the sump so you are good to go. You will need a drip tray if you are a little precious about your garage floor...

Thanks! That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I got the valve clearances checked, with 3 out of spec (2 tight, 1 loose) all on the intakes. Ordering a few new buckets to adjust. Once I get that done, I'll tear off the timing cover and replace the linings, etc. Figure it's easier to button up most of the valve adjustment work (re-install cam, etc.) before going forward.
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Old 09-17-2016, 04:30 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Just a reminder, you will ned to leave the cam cover off after the shim adjustment as this needs to be removed anyway, along with the crank cover on the other side, when removing and refitting the cam chain cover.
A loose exhaust valve clearance? Thats pretty unusual. I would suggest you redo your feeler gauge measurements and be absolutely sure this is the case before heading down the shim replacement process. Nothing worse than checking your work after a shim replacement only to find it is now too tight.
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Old 09-17-2016, 05:27 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

All of my out-of-spec clearances were on the intake valves. All exhaust valve clearances were good. Good to know that loose exhaust valve clearances are uncommon. I'm pretty OCD about checking things, so did all clearance readings about 5 times each. Used the 0.15, then the 0.2 feeler gauges. Depending on the reading, I also used some other feelers to try and roughly narrow in the actual measurement. Only one valve was really out of spec by any significant amount. For the bad ones, based on gauges I had and estimation, I got ~ 0.14, 0.203, 0.127.

Yeah, I plan to leave everything disassembled except re-installing the cam. I also plan to replace some extra stuff while I'm at it, but f*** the price they want for some of the stuff is ridiculous ($~75 for the valve cover gasket, $62 for bottom radiator hose?!). I was going to re-use my valve cover gasket, but it seems fairly brittle and old. I did all the pricing from the RealOEM website at first. When I verified prices with Max BMW online, some things were as much as triple what RealOEM website had listed (RealOEM prices must have been old - since they don't seem to sell anything).

Thanks for the help!
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:25 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

The original cam cover gasket should still be good as they are quite solid. They last pretty much for ever if taken care of during removal. Gently clean the old three bond from the groves corresponding to the half moons and your good to go.
You could try Motobins in the UK as they remove the 15% VAT when they export parts outside the EU. Additionally, the GBP has dropped in value so cheaper for you to buy. I have saved a heap this week on parts from Motobins where in the past I have bought from MAX BMW
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:51 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
I would suggest you redo your feeler gauge measurements and be absolutely sure this is the case before heading down the shim replacement process.
I don't know if this is in the guidance notes, but I cranked the bike on the starter and measured each valve clearance 5 times then took the average reading. I think I disabled the bike ignition and fuel pump (Fuse F4?). If you try this when you start, it confirms you have good feeler measuring technique or something is bad with your camshaft bearings. You will get variation across 5 measurements but at least you won't get one bad result then dive in replacing a shim when it was o.k.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:02 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
The original cam cover gasket should still be good as they are quite solid. They last pretty much for ever if taken care of during removal. Gently clean the old three bond from the groves corresponding to the half moons and your good to go.
You could try Motobins in the UK as they remove the 15% VAT when they export parts outside the EU. Additionally, the GBP has dropped in value so cheaper for you to buy. I have saved a heap this week on parts from Motobins where in the past I have bought from MAX BMW

Thanks Kiwi. The cam cover gasket just seemed kind of stiff, but maybe it's just because it has a firm framework. If it's original, it has 182K+ miles on it. I'll try to clean/refresh it with some boiling water and dish soap. Worst case scenario, if it leaks when I'm done I'll just replace it (which isn't too much work). I'll check with Motobins also.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:08 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
I don't know if this is in the guidance notes, but I cranked the bike on the starter and measured each valve clearance 5 times then took the average reading. I think I disabled the bike ignition and fuel pump (Fuse F4?). If you try this when you start, it confirms you have good feeler measuring technique or something is bad with your camshaft bearings. You will get variation across 5 measurements but at least you won't get one bad result then dive in replacing a shim when it was o.k.

Thanks Vox. I've already got the intake cam out and cam gears removed, so probably too late to try the starter method. Only one of my valves was off a significant amount (tight at ~0.127). If any gaps are off after I put in the new buckets, I'll just have to put the old ones back in.
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Old 09-18-2016, 01:28 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Ah yes the recommended 3Bond sealer at the valve cover gasket(half moons).Someone sure had overdone that on my bike . I cleaned it well and reused the gasket.Eventually replaced it and never used sealer on the new one.

Never leaked without sealer,been out a few times and never had to boil it.

I had to replace the crank cover gasket after the very first time I removed the timing cover to tame the too common leak.Looks like the timing cover shifted ( or spread out?) and unbeknownst to me didn't match the engine casing exactly at the lower seam/crank side.So that cut a little into the gasket when I installed the crank cover.

Found a seep there a few thousand Ks later.... Removed the crank cover,addressed the "mating" with my little file,put a dab of sillycone on the gasket and reinstalled.No leak.... But I am picky so eventually also replaced the crank cover gasket.

As for the timing cover sealer? Loctite 518. 3 times and never leaked so that is not the proverbial "3 times lucky"....
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Old 09-18-2016, 05:29 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

For the crankshaft seal at the timing cover - how do you know if it needs replacement?

I've got some Permatex Ultra-Grey sealant to use. Is the Three-Bond or Loctite 518 significantly better? If so, I can pick some up next week.

Thanks!
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:10 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Crankshaft seal? I replaced it the first time.And polished off the very slight wear groove on the timing wheel.
Second time around? And third? Everything looked good so the now rather old seal stayed.Let me think...+130,000 kms on that seal?:Should be good for a lifetime...

Yep I have a new seal in the parts bin.Been there for a while....!
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:47 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

I'm not sure if the crankshaft seal was ever replaced, so I better do it. I'll also look for any wear groove on the timing wheel, and smooth if needed.
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:44 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

And look for a socket a little oversize to preform that seal.I'll go measure the one I used....the only polished socket amongst my rather old 1/2" drive set,should be easy to find....

Yep....36.19 mm. So oversize by .19 mm.Delicately work the socket inside the seal and leave for a few minutes.1/2 hr?Then install the cover using lining studs? Two longish bolts with the heads cut off.

The beauty of them Teflon seals is that they shrink back onto the parts to insure a good seal.Read Clymer? I did but way too long......I forgot.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:17 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Hey Pierre, thanks for all the advice offered here. I've been away fishing for a couple of days and very much out of phone range.
I did not replace the crank seal as it was not leaking and don't believe this is a common wear item, however if bjmusico has the old style seal I would probably update it while in there. As for loctite 518, if you are using it, that's good enough for me
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Old 09-20-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
Hey Pierre, thanks for all the advice offered here. I've been away fishing for a couple of days and very much out of phone range.
I did not replace the crank seal as it was not leaking and don't believe this is a common wear item, however if bjmusico has the old style seal I would probably update it while in there. As for loctite 518, if you are using it, that's good enough for me

No need to pipe if you get the 518 in the syringe type dispenser.But a word of caution that you mentioned earlier on the seam between the head and crankcase,just where they leak as per the common timing cover leak.

It does look like the head gasket may receed over time(?) creating a larger gap that the 518 may be designed to fill? I don't have that fill spec off hand but I did use a little dab of "ultra black" to fill the gap and let it set overnight.

I like them anaerobic flange sealers....no time constraint as in waits until they set to install,refill with oil and start them engines.Most RTVs do have a recommended set time and their instructions are somewhat lacking as to what the set time should be.The better brands usually have a data sheet/instructions posted online on their websites,always worth reading.

Anaerobic flange sealers such as Loctite are also an excellent gasket dressing.On one side (cover side) of the Hall Sensor cover.That way one can remove the cover/gasket in one piece and even reuse the gasket if one wishes to inspect them now old crank seals for leaks.
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Old 09-21-2016, 01:06 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

More good advice. Thanks guys! I ordered all the parts today. Decided to just get a new camshaft cover gasket, as my old one was looking a little rough. I'm going to try and re-use the crankshaft cover gasket. I should have a socket around that will work to pre-form the new crankshaft seal. I also got a few other parts, including new camshaft chain tensioner unit.

I asked at the BMW dealership (Battley in Maryland) what the repair techs use for sealing covers, etc. The technicians were all gone for the day, but the parts guy said they use Yamabond. He wasn't sure which number, but I think it must be Yamabond 4 (since I think 5 is more of a contact cement). They were out of the Yamabond 4, but I may pick some up and try it.
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Old 10-15-2016, 11:41 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Started my timing chain guide lining replacement journey. I just installed 3 new valve buckets (to adjust spacing) and put the camshaft back in. All necessary spacing adjustments were on the intakes. I left the camshaft gears and thrust bearings off for now, since they need to come off anyway to replace the chain linings. Next for tonight is to take off the remaining front-end stuff (radiators, etc.). After that, I'll be pulling the timing cover, etc., and proceeding.

This thread provided the critical guidance I needed to complete the job. Thanks Kiwi!!
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:13 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Need help!

The lining kit comes with a small plastic "Thrust Adapter" part # 11 31 7 666 337. It's part #25 in the diagram below:





On my bike, the thrust adapter (that contacts the tensioner) located on the bottom rail a pressed-in metal insert. Where does this little plastic part go?? Do I need it on my bike??

Thanks!
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:00 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

It goes..Ö..just where the tensioner piston/plunger pushes against the rail.
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:18 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

From the parts diagram, it would seem that way. I even purchased an extra one, since I thought it was the metal insert I have on my rail (which is pressed in). Clymer makes no mention of the plastic part. They show it in the parts kit picture, but don't address it. Clymer does discuss the pressed-in metal thrust contact.

I couldn't find the plastic part installed in my current rail anywhere. Here's a picture of the metal insert in my rail, where the tensioner contacts. It looks worse than it is, since I have the rail installed and my phone used the flash since I was taking the picture from underneath. Clymer shows this same "thrust piece" in Figure 70 on page 97.



Thanks!
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:43 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

This bike is an early 1998, built 04/97. I have a feeling that BMW went to the plastic (easily replaceable) wear part for the thrust piece after the first year-or-two.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:13 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Got the timing cover back on. The first time I tried, I managed to pinch the crank seal and distort the Teflon lip. Luckily, I had bought a new one (the one I messed up was the old one). Used a 28mm socket in the seal opening during install, which was pushed out as the crank end pushed through the seal.

After re-installing a few other things, I got to the crankcase cover. While snugging up the cover bolts, two of them broke loose and spun well before the required 9 Nm of torque. Threads in the engine block stripped. The bike does have 180K+ miles on it, so the cover has probably been off a few times before. I'm trying to figure out a way to fix it. Probably will try to Helicoil. Never tried it before, but I've got all the tools except for the coils and insertion tool.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:06 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
...
.....
After re-installing a few other things, I got to the crankcase cover. While snugging up the cover bolts, two of them broke loose and spun well before the required 9 Nm of torque. Threads in the engine block stripped. The bike does have 180K+ miles on it, so the cover has probably been off a few times before. I'm trying to figure out a way to fix it. Probably will try to Helicoil. Never tried it before, but I've got all the tools except for the coils and insertion tool.

Before you make a final decision on ordering proper helicoils and tool, make sure you have indeed inserted correct length bolts into proper holes AS THERE IS 3 DIFFERENT LENGTHs of bolts in that timing cover.

If you got the wrong length you may feel lack of treads and damage the little amount of threads available into improper hole. See attached image of a rough notes I made into my CLYMER manual:
- 4 LONG bolts where the black arrows are (6 x 35)
- 1 MEDIUM length bolt into hole on top row
- all others are short (probably 6 x 25, but did not note it last time)

NOTE that this list does NOT include the special TORX head bolt for timing tensionner in center of cover.

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Old 10-18-2016, 11:29 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Yep to the different length bolts.Stick a depth gauge in them holes,there could be enough threads left to torque longer bolts in place.

BMW is pretty consistent at drilling/tapping holes about 4-5mm longer than the fastener used.I have repaired a few such "stripped" bolts over the years.At times just a longer bolt but at times they can be too long and bottom out so may need some attention with the bench grinder to shorten them.

Had to do just such repair yesterday on a Tecumseh engine.Worked well....if it hadn't I was ready for helicoils,I do have a good metric repair kit.

Old VW/Honda and at times BMW trick? M6 can easily be tapped to a slightly larger 1/4".

And now that I am writing...I remembered that one 1/4" on my K100RS.That was a long time ago.....
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Old 10-18-2016, 11:50 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Thanks Jean/Pierre. The timing cover bolts/holes are all fine. I noted location and separated all the bolts for the timing cover and reinstalled in correct positions.

The problem I have is with 2 holes for the crank cover, with the shouldered bolts. Since they are shouldered, I can't easily just use a similar longer bolt. Well, I guess I could, but it would lose the function of the shoulder and I would have to be careful not to over-torque the rubber seal. Helicoil seems the most appropriate fix. A second option would be to put in non-shouldered bolts that are a bit longer.

Going out to look for helicoil stuff later today. Does anyone know the correct size for the crank cover shouldered bolts?? I believe someone said M6, but didn't give the pitch (1.00 or 1.25?). I have metric screw checker plates, but seem to have misplaced the smaller one that includes the M6 sizes.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmusico
Thanks Jean/Pierre. The timing cover bolts/holes are all fine. I noted location and separated all the bolts for the timing cover and reinstalled in correct positions.

The problem I have is with 2 holes for the crank cover, with the shouldered bolts. Since they are shouldered, I can't easily just use a similar longer bolt. Well, I guess I could, but it would lose the function of the shoulder and I would have to be careful not to over-torque the rubber seal. Helicoil seems the most appropriate fix. A second option would be to put in non-shouldered bolts that are a bit longer.

Going out to look for helicoil stuff later today. Does anyone know the correct size for the crank cover shouldered bolts?? I believe someone said M6, but didn't give the pitch (1.00 or 1.25?). I have metric screw checker plates, but seem to have misplaced the smaller one that includes the M6 sizes.

OOPSSS... sorry, I guess I read your post too quickly... because whole thread was about timing cover and timing chain tensionner rails.

These shoulder bolts on Valve AND crankcase cover are very often over-torqued by shade-tree mechanics (and even real mechanics). Only 9 NM so it needs very little force needed to strip treads. Many such incidents on the K1200LT forums also, so yours it not alone.

Because of design of compression of rubber seal (under each bolt) and compression force needed on large gasket, I cannot suggest to put a longer bolt.... unless it was for temporarely emergency repair on side of road.

Easy to measure the tread pitch with kit / tool I have here BUT right now I do not have a bolt removed from engine unfortunately. Maybe later tonight in garage...
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:13 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Thanks Jean. Yeah, I was aware of the low 9N-m torque before I started putting the bolts in. Since I had just reinstalled the timing and Hall sensor covers, my torque wrench was already set to 9 N-m and I had a "feel" for how low it was. All went fine hand-tight, but as soon as I started to snug-up and torque a couple broke loose. I think some of the threads were weak from time/past over-torqueing. Off to look for heli-coil stuff. I'll check the bolt size before I go and post it later, for future reference by others.
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:15 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

They have to be M6x1.Standard pitch for M6 bolts.I know.....made a jig to measure TDC and verify timing with the tedious GS911 method and bolted the jig at the cam cover and used standard M6x1 bolts.Toyota bolts...

Oh well.....lots of helicoils threads out there and even videos on YouTube.

Torque wrenches? I'd rather not use them for such low torque applications.And trust my wrist to recognize the first signs of strippage.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:54 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Yep, you're right they are M6 x 1 pitch.

Finally got the crank cover installed and all bolts torqued correctly - on the 5th try! Once I fixed the first stripped hole with a heli-coil, a different bolt broke free during installation (before getting to 9 N-m torque). This happened 3 different times! I quickly realized that someone before me had stripped out a bunch of the holes and already installed heli-coils. I kept pulling out the old heli-coils during installation! Luckily the kit I bought came with 10 inserts. It looks like only 2 of the bolt holes are original.

Now I can finish putting everything back together and hope the timing is still set correctly (and my effed-up crank cover doesn't leak).
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:28 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Be confident....won't leak. And if it does there are quite a few gasket dressings out there.Loctite 518 sure is one of them.Anaerobic flange sealer AND gasket dressing.

Timing? If it is off? I marked my timing wheel/adjustment plate in the same fashion as explained in the IBMWR tech articles for the older Ks.Verified the marks with the rather tedious GS911 method and then fabricated a "Hall sensor tester" as shown in Clymer under "Hall sensor,page 290".Turn the engine,LED comes on at the (my) 6 degrees mark,engine is timed.

Or....I can now do it with the timing light,no need to dismantle much to do that,just have to remove the little timing cover which can be done with rad in place.
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Old 10-21-2016, 03:49 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Here's a pic of my old lower lining. Was almost worn all the way through, so glad I went in there to replace.



Will fire the bike up tomorrow, after the few required sections of sealer on the valve cover gasket are fully cured. Luckily, no stripped bolt holes on the valve cover (but I did notice a couple with heli-coils previously installed). I should probably sacrifice a chicken or something to prevent any major issues or leaks. I looked, but couldn't find any blood-sacrifice emojis.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:28 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Bruce, interesting to see how much wear you have on the lining given your mileage. I assume that is the original lining too! The pics I posted of mine are at half the milage of yours. I think you are lucky you didn't have an Oh F#%K moment. Did you replace the cam chain too? At the mileage you have I would think it would be a good move to replace it
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:46 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Could you hear that something was going on with the chain/liner?My K100RS sure was making strange wooshing sounds when the liner wore out and the chain rollers contacted the liner just like what you are showing?

Checking chain wear? Easier with chain in hand but can also be done pulling on the chain at the sprockets,just like a motorcycle drive chain.And a careful visual inspection of the sprockets? A worn chain will dig into the teeth.

Sealer on the valve cover gasket? I don't use anything and even more so since I put a new gasket on a few years ago.Removed/installed that cover a few times ever since and never had a seep.Touch wood as in my shop wood floor? .Got to check my valves against my valve plan in the next few days to see if I need $hims,hopefully not I have quite a few new and used spares.I could be in/out of there in an hour if like last time.
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Old 10-22-2016, 03:51 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
Bruce, interesting to see how much wear you have on the lining given your mileage. I assume that is the original lining too! The pics I posted of mine are at half the milage of yours. I think you are lucky you didn't have an Oh F#%K moment. Did you replace the cam chain too? At the mileage you have I would think it would be a good move to replace it

No, I didn't replace the chain. Guess I went with the accepted philosophy (at least on the forums) that the timing chain lasts forever. Plus, I wasn't brave enough to take it all the way off and hope I could get the timing set again without special tools. Hopefully it will hold up for a while. I only plan on riding this bike a few thousand miles/year. For longer trips, etc., I'll take my newer one.

I'm also guessing the lining is original. The previous owner was knowledgeable about the bike and also seemed on top of the maintenance, so surprising he never had this done. I never got the entire maintenance history out of him. He had a new bike and I think he just wanted this one to move on (got it at a price I couldn't refuse). I think he also probably saw some big maintenance items coming up and didn't want to deal with it. As such, after having a difficult time getting some of the major history out of him (rear drive replaced, etc.) I decided to not bother him anymore.
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:06 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Could you hear that something was going on with the chain/liner?My K100RS sure was making strange wooshing sounds when the liner wore out and the chain rollers contacted the liner just like what you are showing?

Checking chain wear? Easier with chain in hand but can also be done pulling on the chain at the sprockets,just like a motorcycle drive chain.And a careful visual inspection of the sprockets? A worn chain will dig into the teeth.

Sealer on the valve cover gasket? I don't use anything and even more so since I put a new gasket on a few years ago.Removed/installed that cover a few times ever since and never had a seep.Touch wood as in my shop wood floor? .Got to check my valves against my valve plan in the next few days to see if I need $hims,hopefully not I have quite a few new and used spares.I could be in/out of there in an hour if like last time.

One of the main reasons I dug into things (valve gaps, cam chain lining, etc.) was to try and quiet things down some. Not really sure if I heard the same wooshing. I didn't notice any unusual wear on the sprockets, but I didn't look really close. For the valve and cam covers, I just used a little gasket sealer at the engine block "seams" and on the half-moons.

I fired the bike up today and all seems good. No leaks, so far. Seems a little quieter, but the box-o-rocks (and maybe a bit of other engine noise) is still louder than on my newer bike with less miles. Cam chain area seems quiet.

While I was at it, I also put in a newer-model ECU unit (fitted with John's Stage 4 chip I had laying around) and a new oxygen sensor. Once I flush/bleed the brakes and put the skins back on tomorrow, I'll take it out for a real test ride and see how it goes.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:31 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Took the '98 KRS out today after doing all the work. Everything seems good and nothing seized up, spewed oil, etc. Engine and box-o-rocks is still a bit noisy at idle, but it seems a bit quieter after adjusting the valves and replacing the cam linings (at least I "believe" it is, which is all that really matters).

Thanks to everyone, especially Kiwi! It was definitely an intensive job that I would have struggled with, and probably screwed-up, without the additional resources.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:17 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

I had 55500km on my '97 KRS,when is right time or km's to check cam chain and liners,I don't think anybody chack that before me,sealing on chain cover look like OEM (transparent/white)... Thanks
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:19 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Hi Vladislav,
You should be good for more than double that mileage before you need to address the tensioner rails. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it until you are approaching 100,000 km's or more. Time or age is what will probably determine when you pull the front cover to check things out. The plastic rail and guide may start to become brittle with age however I'm unaware of any failures because of this. It's really peace of mind more than anything that determines preemptive maintenance.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:19 AM
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Smile Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Thank you for your response,I am on holiday,we might make another trip.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:06 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

Performing this maintenance on my '03 K12 with 52 k miles. Valve clearances are in spec, checking the fair maiden's slippers on the cam chain. Pulled the timing cover with drill bit in the hole for the tensioner. Didn't help. Tensioner piston and spring launched anyway. Hoping there isn't anything else in that assembly that ventured into the black hole residing in my garage every time I start a maintenance procedure. Is there? Fiche doesn't show a breakdown.
Also- what tips have you for removing the water pump cover? When the manual says 'remove cover', doesn't that mean it just falls off in your hands? Sitting here with a beer, going on week 2, waiting for it to drop off.
I used a wooden hammer handle to apply even, gentle pressure to the timing cover through the crankcase opening after removing said crank cover. But the water pump cover has no place to apply gentle pressure. I'm growing quite the beard waiting for this to jetison itself.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:22 AM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

The cover certainly won't fall by itself. The cover can be well sealed to the housing with old sealer and will require several good firm taps with a plastic or rubber mallet at various points. If you only have a regular steel builders hammer, hold a piece of timber in between to protect the cover but this is really not the best way to go about it, more a roadside version... If a PO has been there before, then excess use of sealer could make it harder to remove. Best not to lever/pry it off as you risk distorting the shape of the cover. I would probably tap a little firmer until it lets go.
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:25 PM
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Re: How to: Timing chain tensioner lining replacement

It has been a long while since I did the water pump cover removal, but I seem to remember having to place a thin single edged box cutter type blade at the interface and gently tapping it to get the prior sealant to begin to release. Very carefully so as not to damage the smooth facing surfaces. As Flying Kiwi notes, a wooden block and a hammer is necessary. To me, the block was able to place the force at the right spot, just above the interface.
Best of luck.
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