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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:38 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Exhaust studs and nuts

I just pulled the exhaust on my 02 K12 RS and the studs and nuts are in sad shape, anyone no of a supplier who might carry Stainless replacements? Id like to replace them with stainless unless its not a good idea ??
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2018, 03:25 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

I think you are better off using the stock copper alloy nuts. The studs sometimes come out with the nuts, but never are a problem that I know of. Stainless 8mm studs ought to be easy to find if that is what you want. Studs have the insert threads a tiny bit different than the part you use to put a nut on. To hold them in the object body. I just learned this the other day reading a machinist book. Never knew it.
Belmetric.com will have the studs and even the copper alloy nuts.
https://www.belmetric.com/
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Old 02-24-2018, 03:52 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Would you happen to know the thread pitch. 1.25? M8 X 1.25?
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2018, 04:49 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
I just pulled the exhaust on my 02 K12 RS and the studs and nuts are in sad shape, anyone no of a supplier who might carry Stainless replacements? Id like to replace them with stainless unless its not a good idea ??

As shown in MAX-BMW fiche these STUDS are M8 x 55 at $0.85 each... so I doubt you will find cheaper alternatives from any bolts supplier (unless you buy a big lot). The thread pitch needed is 1.25
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...=07129 908137


On the other hand, the copper NUTs are fairly expensive from BMW at $US$ 2.95 each (so roughly $24 for a full set). Maybe you could find these cheaper but I wonder what kind of minimum order $$$ you will get from hardware / bolts suppliers ?
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...=11621 744323


See attached photo with notes...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K1200RS_Exhaust_muffler_nuts.jpg (136.3 KB, 21 views)
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:06 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

stainless in that application is not a good idea... Stainless is a much weaker material. Go back oem.... Trust me on this..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
I just pulled the exhaust on my 02 K12 RS and the studs and nuts are in sad shape, anyone no of a supplier who might carry Stainless replacements? Id like to replace them with stainless unless its not a good idea ??
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Old 02-24-2018, 05:49 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

I agree with Pirate, I would not use stainless. You will seldom find a stainless fastener on a bike, only ones I know of are fairing plastic holder screws. 85 cents, BMW has screwed up and overlooked the pricing on this. I'm sure they meant 8.50$
Dive in and buy OEM parts and there will be no worries. Maybe the copper nuts from that metric site I sent you. I saw them there. I think BMW ones are now copper wash which in my book is even better. And as mentioned above they are metric standard coarse, no fine threads here. That stud is the cheapest part I have seen in the catalog!
The torque is 16 ft/lbs. on these nuts.
09 07 12 9 908 137 STUD BOLT - M8X550.04 8 $0.85

Exhaust header stud on K bike applications.
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:40 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Yeah I wasn't to sure about stainless studs going into an aluminum head. I'll take everyone's advice and go with oem hardware but I'm still gonna take a look at the site you mentioned.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:28 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
I just pulled the exhaust on my 02 K12 RS and the studs and nuts are in sad shape, anyone no of a supplier who might carry Stainless replacements? Id like to replace them with stainless unless its not a good idea ??

It's a good idea, Try SpaeNaur (https://spaenaur.com/) They have every nut, bolt and screw known to mankind. They are in canada but ship no problems to the US.

Note that the original nuts were self locking. If you use regular nuts, use lockwashers! ALso, when using new studs, apply BLUE loctite to the end that goes into the cylinder head.

If you have trouble getting the right length stud, you maybe able to get a fully-threaded bolt, and cut the head off. Be sure to deburr it! Best is to cut the head off using a Dremel with an abrasive cutoff disk which will only leave minor burrs to clean up.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:31 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Yeah I wasn't to sure about stainless studs going into an aluminum head. I'll take everyone's advice and go with oem hardware but I'm still gonna take a look at the site you mentioned.

Stainless into aluminum works just fine ...I have done this for years, and had no problem. Remember the blue loctite! There will be no problem with removal when you use the blue (not red) Loctite.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:24 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Thanks guys for all your help, much appreciated! I already have exhaust gaskets but didnt have brains enough to order studs and nuts to go with them. Been thru this before but still didnt have the foresight to order them!
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:15 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Until the end of the this month (3 days) Hermy's BMW on line you can order parts with a 20% discount using the term "deal". Unfortunately they have no ability to use part numbers, you have to find the part in their bmw system which is not as straight forward as MAX bmw but you can struggle through it. Worst case call them, the parts guy is nice and very helpful. He will give you the discount also.
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:49 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Until the end of the this month (3 days) Hermy's BMW on line you can order parts with a 20% discount using the term "deal". Unfortunately they have no ability to use part numbers, you have to find the part in their bmw system which is not as straight forward as MAX bmw but you can struggle through it. Worst case call them, the parts guy is nice and very helpful. He will give you the discount also.

Ive dealt with Hermy's quite a bit ordering parts for my Triumph's. The parts usually get here within a few days, Max is good to as far as that goes. Thanks for the tip Beech.
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:01 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Two weeks ago installed full Remus, from Pirates Lair, on my '04 K-GT.

Sourced the exhaust nuts and gaskets from South Sound BMW.

Guessing yours take the same parts.

Exhaust nuts part 8 11621744323 at $2.95 ea

exhaust gaskets (early) part 4 11627662083 at $3.39 ea
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:14 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiemonster
Two weeks ago installed full Remus, from Pirates Lair, on my '04 K-GT.

Sourced the exhaust nuts and gaskets from South Sound BMW.

Guessing yours take the same parts.

Exhaust nuts part 8 11621744323 at $2.95 ea

exhaust gaskets (early) part 4 11627662083 at $3.39 ea

I already have the exh. gaskets, the nuts are the same price at Max and Hermy's. Studs are surprisingly cheap at .85 cents but as someone pointed out it was probably a typo and theyre $8.50.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:13 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

I ordered the copper nuts and lock washers from Belmetric and the studs from Max, with shipping and tax I saved myself about $7.00 instead of ordering everything fro Max. I can buy a 6 pack of really bad beer now !!
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:17 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
I ordered the copper nuts and lock washers from Belmetric and the studs from Max, with shipping and tax I saved myself about $7.00 instead of ordering everything fro Max. I can buy a 6 pack of really bad beer now !!

If these are stock BMW parts, then they aren't copper. They are steel, just copper plated. At least that is what the ones on MY GT are (a magnet stuck to them). Pure copper has VERY low tensile strength and would be pretty useless. .
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:29 AM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

I've used stainless fasteners and they are fine. You don't use stainless to replace high strength HT bolts. If they used HT bolts on the exhaust studs at full spec. you would break something!

I use BRASS nuts selling all over fleabay for cars. I prefer brass because the threads are harder than copper and you get a nice squeak when they tighten! I went for the longer nuts because it's easier to get a ring spanner on them.

Correct about the thread size into the head!! Be careful, I ran a standard 8mm tap down 2 of mine and whilst the studs have held for years, they went in much looser. Ali car exhaust manifolds and heads used to use a coarser thread into the ali end and standard threads for the nuts? I haven't needed to revisit my manifold studs, but next time I'd try to tie down the thread form specs and not make assumptions. I might even decide to put Helicoil inserts in them. That should give the best of both since Helicoil inserts use a coarse thread.
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:44 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
If these are stock BMW parts, then they aren't copper. They are steel, just copper plated. At least that is what the ones on MY GT are (a magnet stuck to them). Pure copper has VERY low tensile strength and would be pretty useless. .

I worded it wrong,I know theyre copper plated, wonder why copper though in an app like that, even just plated the finish is doomed to corrode in no time.

Voxmagna, instead of using heli coil have you thought about using a TimeSert repair kit? Saw them on the Belmetric site.
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:56 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Yeah, old fart here, Heli Coil is 60's tech stuff. I have them and still use them but not as good as the new products. Heli Coils can unwind if not careful. And you should put the thing in deep enough so the top thread is down at least half a thread so the lead of the coil is secure.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:03 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Copper plated nuts are same as some cars.May be cheaper at an autoparts store?

Studs? Mine sure ain't rusting anymore.I just treat them with Rub'n'Buff.
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:31 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Since we're talking studs here I have to share the details of "tap-end studs" which is what we are talking about here. I mentioned the threads are different on a stud as opposed to a bolt. Helps keep the studs in place and makes them stronger fitting. The end that goes into the work is the tap end and the end we see and work with is the nut end. The tap end has a tighter fitting class of threads called class UNRC-3A and the nut end are UNRC-2A which are a little looser fit for the nut. So don't get a continuous threaded stud as a replacement for a tap end stud or even a double ended stud which has nut threads on each end. Top one is a tap end stud the next one is a double end stud with same class of threads each end, then there is the continuous stud at the bottom.



More types depending on body finish, rolled threads etc..
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:32 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Continuous threaded stud is what is in my bike.
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:45 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Clean them on the bench grinder with the wire wheel.Inspect threads and if no damages reinstall and coat with Rub'n'Buff.New nuts and done.

Rub'n'Buff:

http://www.amaco.com/products/rnb-si...2&taxon_id=325
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:59 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Just saved 85 cents. . That is probably why they are continuous thread...cheap.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:01 AM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Clean them on the bench grinder with the wire wheel.Inspect threads and if no damages reinstall and coat with Rub'n'Buff.New nuts and done.

Rub'n'Buff:

http://www.amaco.com/products/rnb-si...2&taxon_id=325

Already bought new but I was gonna clean up the old ones just to have. RubnBuff my nuts?No the studs? What would my wife say???
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:48 AM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Already bought new but I was gonna clean up the old ones just to have. RubnBuff my nuts?No the studs? What would my wife say???

Rub'n'Buff.....all my exposed cast Aluminium parts are now treated with it.Dirt slides right off and haven't seen any of that powdery aluminium corrosion on my bike for years.

Oh well.....how long is the K-slant thread on rusting BMW fasteners? Solution is cheap and rather effective.
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:22 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

It is cheap enough and I have plenty of machines to use it on. If you say it stop corrosion it sure is better than rubbin my fingers to the bone with Mother's.
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Cheap and once you get some I'll talk you into the Rub'NO'Buff method.Fuck buffing.....!

Hail Rub'n'Buff Mary?She's the lady selling from Canada on fleabay.

Hail is from some samplings I did send around at times to some very knowledgeable BMW guys that have,and still do,own what I'd call fleets of BMWs.They'd rather ride than poolish....!

Silver Leaf all purpose.A little too shiny for me so can be mixed with the Pewter to tone down the shine and bring even OEM powdercoated or anodized silver parts back to factory look.Front fork lower legs come to mind...!
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:27 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Ill give it a shot, see what all the fuss is about!! If its less polishing its for me!
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:29 PM
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Poolishing.Poo....!

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/poo

My bike is only poolished/detailed once a year.Takes a couple weeks.Poo...! Will get dirty fast,as soon as the snow melts but the poolishing will protect it for? Over 20Ks of dirt/tar and salt,if not longer.

8 out of 10 on my old Zebra with 150Ks? I just point at the odometer when I get the rather frequent" nice bike" compliments on the road.

I must say that my pitted wheels,and pitted from offroading, do look rather like new now from the Rub'nBuff.$2.00 worth of it and pewter/silver mix? I know it will last even on painted surfaces from previous tests.

Bah....I'd rather ride than show. A couple weeks/yr for service/poolishing/tuning etc...? Therapeutic and lets one unwind from a long hot and harder at my advancing age riding season?
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  #31  
Old 03-01-2018, 10:41 AM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

I save the cleaning detail and whatever maintenance for rainy days. I sure as hell am not gonna stay home on a nice day and clean em. They get dirty, they need work, ya cant stop it when ya ride em.

Im hoping all this work I'm putting into it now is gonna pay dividends for now and the future cause I just want to ride, often!! I'm hoping I wont have to touch it, well anything major till I get 150K on the clock.

You can use this stuff on painted surfaces????
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  #32  
Old 03-01-2018, 11:30 AM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is online now
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i

You can use this stuff on painted surfaces????

Yes but requires buffing as you apply otherwise may just look like a caked up old whore. Tedious,about an hour/wheel.

Sure does wonders on engine casings.Such as my uncleanable Honda? Uncleanable less completely disassembledd and vapor blasted or such. And did wonders on other motorcycle engines going back to the 1930s? Next on the line is a Yamaha DT175....1974 and getting a complete resto at my friend's.

Poolishing....too much of that in my life.A few years of prepping/detailing new and used cars at dad's dealership and then 35 yrs of cleaning/polishing ship's galleys up to a 9.8/10.Or 98% as per them health inspectors reports?

Poolishing......I polished the gouges/scratches out of the Honda fork legs.Anodized from the factory and that is very hard to remove.Polished so much so that they were too shiny.Had to knock the shine down....!
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Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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  #33  
Old 03-01-2018, 10:10 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

No kidding, a 74 DT 175, my brother had a 75 , bought itbrand new, tank was a dark blue with a white stripe on each side with black pinstripe. Gray fenders.
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  #34  
Old 03-04-2018, 11:55 AM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is online now
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Re: Exhaust studs and nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
No kidding, a 74 DT 175, my brother had a 75 , bought itbrand new, tank was a dark blue with a white stripe on each side with black pinstripe. Gray fenders.

That one is also blue. Rusty blue and rusty inside the tank.No worries my friend has been there before.I just got some of my Honda DIY parts/luggage mounts back.All prepped by me so piggybacked with the Yamaha parts in his big oven.He did mine first if just to test his new brand of satin black powder.Tests=Free or very cheap.

Yamaha grey fenders/headlight and headlight brackets?All powdercoated and all the satin black is done.Should be a rolling chassis in a few days.

The blue Yamaha parts? I have a better eye than him,I think we can get Metallic Blue powder that will be very close to Yamaha blue.The red DT360 sure looked good in very near factory color metallic powdercoat.Repro decals made by our buddy the local sign guy?I have some electrical work to do on his V-Strom......in exchange of? New decals for the K? K1200 G/S.

Yamaha 1974? Mine was a brand new RD350 at 17.
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Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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