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  #1  
Old 01-20-2018, 03:24 PM
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Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

I've noticed of late that when several weeks passes without riding my K1300S (due to Winter Weather) the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleeds down. Upon starting the engine there's a loud clatter from the Cam Chain that quickly ceases as soon as Oil Pressure refills the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner.

So yesterday, after several weeks of it sitting in the Garage, before starting the engine, I tried to rotate the engine via Trans in 1st Gear and then rotating the rear Wheel by hand...didn't budge or maybe I'm just too weak. So Plan-B was 4 or 5 quick jabs of the Starter button so that it doesn't start up but does build oil pressure and refills the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner. I then held the Starter button down and she fired right up with no clatter from the Cam Chain.

And yes I've seen the aftermarket Mechanical Cam Chain Tensioner and I'm not interested in one of those. I like the Hydraulic unit and just needed a way to avoid the start up clatter after it bleeds down.
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:51 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

This should help a lot. Old age gets those O-rings in the tensioner.
11 31 7 705 460 SET: O-RING SET 1 $13.64
I change mine every other valve check, if I can remember.
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Thanks for the Tip Beech! Just thinking outloud...wonder what the OEM O-Ring material is? Maybe try one made of Viton instead?

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viton

"Viton o-rings are an alternative to Buna-N seals in BMW's automobile engine variable timing units, known as VANOS. In the VANOS, the Buna-N o-rings deteriorate. The Viton fluorocarbon o-rings have similar functional characteristics to Buna-N, but with much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics."

I recall the Mechanical Engineers for Large Cat Diesel Engines resorting to expensive Viton O-Rings when other types wouldn't hold up to harsh conditions.

A quick Google search found this seller of Viton O-Rings in Clarkston WA - they have the premium ETP version too:
http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...966b338bd5e572
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:42 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

As long as it doesn't happen on a weekendly basis,

Everything is ok....
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:20 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Expense is no problem if you want to up grade. Buy a kit, measure the orings, (not listed on the parts fiche). You only get two orings in the BMW OEM kit For 13$!!!!. So if you buy 20 each of the viton for a buck or so each you can have some oring kits for sale for $10 each. Easy retirement.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:30 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Dan,
You goy my curiosity going about the bleed down, I put my bike away for the winter October 15th and haven't started her since, been covered up with a tender on it, so being 50 degrees today I had to start her up, there was zero noise from cam chain, so if your having issues I'd definitely change out that baby while its winter, maybe your chain could also use an adjustment?? And that's why its so noisy upon start up with a little bleed down.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:22 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The Chain is not adjustable.
You can only replace the chain.

The the chain tensioner is a hydraulic/mechanical device.

Oil pressure controls its "tension"

The reservoir on top of the tensioner will loose some or all fluid eventually.
Pushing the bike around the garage or down the drive way for first startup too....

My bike 2005 K1200s, 15,000km since tensioner change will
rattle too at first startup after winter.

Like i said before,
If it doesn't happen every weekend, then its all a.ok
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:46 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by rs530
so if your having issues I'd definitely change out that baby while its winter, maybe your chain could also use an adjustment?? And that's why its so noisy upon start up with a little bleed down.

It was even a few degrees warmer here Dan so I went for a ride too. Didn't rattle at all on startup so obviously didn't bleed down since last Friday (3 days ago). It's like Patirique says "doesn't happen every weekend".

My 2011 K1300S has under 15k miles and runs great. I change the engine Oil/Filter at 5k intervals with Shell Rotella T6 SAE 5-W40. I'm confident the Cam Chain isn't stretched.

My Gear-Head Buddies here shared with me that there's a very good Local O-Ring Supplier nearby. I'm going to take the Tensioner out and replace the O-Rings with Viton units.

I'll let you know when it's done and what it cost me for the O-Rings. I'm going for the Viton "ETP" version too since it's the very best of the various types of Viton (A, B, F, GF, GLT, GFLT, XLT, ULT, ETP, AFLAS, and BRFKM) against fluid immunity and has a wide temp range (-21C to 225C) as well.

Check out this webpage for the "FKM Type Comparison Chart" (scroll a little more than half way down):
https://www.marcorubber.com/viton-o-rings.htm
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:09 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Did anyone ever get the size of these o-rings? Or a part number from a supplier?

Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:26 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Good plan, two O-rings for 18$ or so, what a joke. BMW is screwing itself. I'll order up a kit and see what I can figure out. 100 each size from my oring supplier and I bet it will not total 12$ with shipping.
I can see BMW stock, sorting, inventory etc.. Maybe $6 a kit. eh?
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:03 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Mine used to do exactly the same but as I said in another post when I went from Castrol 10/40 to 5/40 and the other thing as I never had a centerstand it would be on its side stand and I bought I Ducati style paddock stand so it’s always up right but the bike hasn’t done the death rattle for some years.

And I can leave the bike standing for 6 months and it’s still good.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:44 PM
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Question Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCannin
Mine used to do exactly the same but as I said in another post when I went from Castrol 10/40 to 5/40

And I can leave the bike standing for 6 months and itís still good.

To clarify, are you saying you went back to 10/40 and it is now good?
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:43 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

As per my post in 2011 I went from 10/40 to 5/40
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:10 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The 5 weight oil pumps up fast! One of the reasons turbo cars use 0 and 5WXX oils.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:24 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Okay, now I see the logic.
I guess there is no check valve in the system so whatever oil is used it is going to bleed down out of the tensioner when the engine is shut down and engine oil pressure goes away.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:16 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

The updated tensioner that BMW introduced in 2007 contained an oil reservoir to prevent chain rattle (or worse) at startup, that was its entire reason for being. It must have some kind of check valve or some method of maintaining the oil in the reservoir or what would have been the point of updating it? FWIW I had startup chain rattle on my original (non-reservoir) tensioner but since it was updated I have not experienced any since, as in none at all, regardless of how long the bike sits (even for months.)

The BMW tensioner works fine although some were not great out of the box (needed a little polishing of bore and cylinder to prevent hangups at low pressure, and perhaps the o-rings can fail over time although I personally have not had that happen.) But once you get it sorted it will work well and in that case the OEM tensioner is a much better choice (assuming you have have also done all the appropriate updates to the early bikes) than messing with manual units which in my view are a poor solution to a nonexistent problem.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:04 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Had me at non existant problem. What are you founding this statement on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by millers
But once you get it sorted it will work well and in that case the OEM tensioner is a much better choice (assuming you have have also done all the appropriate updates to the early bikes) than messing with manual units which in my view are a poor solution to a nonexistent problem.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:39 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmogs
Had me at non existant problem. What are you founding this statement on?
I only meant that once you get a good OEM auto tensioner in place it works fine, so where is there a problem that requires messing with a manual unit? As mentioned, if an OEM tensioner doesn't work properly straight away it may need some touch up work, but it's easy and once done you aren't guessing about how to set up a manual one. What's the point?
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:02 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Begs the question, are BMW fitting the jump collar over the bottom chain sprocket?
Why? if the 'new improved' tensioner has no problem.

Have a look on APE's website. They make a lot of tensioners for non existent problems.

http://www.aperaceparts.com/protensioner.html
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:46 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmogs
Begs the question, are BMW fitting the jump collar over the bottom chain sprocket?
Why? if the 'new improved' tensioner has no problem.
That has more to do with the timing of the various fixes than the efficacy of the new tensioner. And the jump guard is a good 'safety net' idea regardless of which tensioner is used. And regardless, how many documented cases have there been of a cam chain failure with both a (properly functioning) updated tensioner and a jump guard in place? None that I'm aware of. What are we 'fixing' at this point?

Quote:
Have a look on APE's website. They make a lot of tensioners for non existent problems
Yes, they do.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:01 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner bleed down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Good plan, two O-rings for 18$ or so, what a joke. BMW is screwing itself. I'll order up a kit and see what I can figure out. 100 each size from my oring supplier and I bet it will not total 12$ with shipping.
I can see BMW stock, sorting, inventory etc.. Maybe $6 a kit. eh?

I have just replaced the two o rings in my 08 k12R. The reprom DVD does not give the full picture here. I had to order a torx ring spanner to undo the two bolts securing the tensioner reservoir to the engine block as I could not get a socket to fit between the tensioner and the frame. Pump all of the dirty oil out of the tensioner body and fill it up with fresh oil. The o rings are easy to install. The last problem was the torque specification of 9 nm then loosen of and retorque to 9 nm. This is where the problem arose. As I could not get a torque wrench onto the two bolts I hand tightened them. I turned the bike over three times, cutting it off before it started to pump up the tensioner. The cam chain rattled like the clatterwheels of destruction. I located a service bulletin that stated that if the chainrattles then redo the torquing process. Apparently over tightening the two bolts distorts the tensioner preventing it from contacting the cam chain guide. I loosened the bolts off and just nipped them up, started the engine and no rattle. Hallelujah. Also no oil leaks. I nipped them up just a touch more - no leaks and no rattle. I hope this stops some one from crapping themselves (as I did) when they change the o rings to prevent bleed down. I’ve always wondered what the rattle sounded like and now I know
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