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  #61  
Old 03-06-2012, 08:13 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by GregRS

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  #62  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:22 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

hmm, what am i on, day 4? 5?

which ever,,, time to have fun,,


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  #63  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Just a thought, with all the blue color on the clutch pressure plate and the flywheel,



I'd see if there is a machine shop nearby to see if they have, what I believe is called, a machinist's bench - a machined flat and true metal topped table, and lay the pressure plate and flywheel on the table to see if they are really flat and true.

If I recall my rudimentary metalurgy it takes about 600F for steel to turn blue, and if I'm right, with that much heat I'd be curious to see if those parts are indeed true. Failing a machinists table, a glass topped table would probably work too.

Keep up the good work, and the thread, good info for all of us!
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  #64  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:21 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

will do on checking those plates. that'll be for tomorrow, already packed it in for the day. the seals tried to resist, but seen it my way in the end.



for the output shaft seal depth, to the top of the oil passage was 8/32", seal was 7/32" thick and countersunk 1/32". that would put me right at the top of the passage and in the clear.
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  #65  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by GregRS
will do on checking those plates. that'll be for tomorrow, already packed it in for the day. the seals tried to resist, but seen it my way in the end.



for the output shaft seal depth, to the top of the oil passage was 8/32", seal was 7/32" thick and countersunk 1/32". that would put me right at the top of the passage and in the clear.

If you are talking about the "Oil passage" in the case, not so important at the output, plenty of room behind that for the oil to circulate.But very important at the tranny input seal, much less room there for the lube to get to the bearing.

The lube hole on the shaft is the important one, and that....a measurement of its outside edge "in decimals" to the outer edge of the case is what you (and others)need. And then some comparisons between the seal outer face and lip.Just to make sure you know.

There is also such a lube hole at the input seal behing the slave....push that one in just a little too far measuring "in fractions" and you'll get yet another leak. And that's another one where BMW sets the seal very close from the lube hole. Go passed that with your measurements "in fractions" and you'll either wait for more parts or like me open up your transmission to push them seals out where they should have been in the first place.

Had I known about lube holes etc etc....I'd have measured the depth of them holes first and made up my own mind as to seal depth. Right flush with the cases. Done fixed...a few minutes, no special tools or 2 days wasted figuring that out.


You have to look at that anyway when you clean the shaft(s) from old seal residues, inspect for a possible groove/scratches then clean/polish etc...etc. All in the instructions here and there and SOP for all seals.

Not important if you just mount the seals flush with the case,your call on that, but could certainly help others faced with a similar situation. And because you are not the only one doing this job as we speak, it is just that others may not have the time to document it. Having said that....I'll get them measurements soon anyway then compare with my own when I find them.


All in the books the installation procedures, I hope you read them well, there are "precautions" to take like with any seals and more so with them because they have to slip over sharp splines.
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  #66  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:03 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

i cleaned out the areas behind the seal with q-tips, all shafts where good, with no visible wear.

all seals went in flush to the case, except the output shaft, i put that back where it was since i knew i had the space.


the torque sequence for the clutch housing was something new,, still trying to figure that reasoning out. torque, loosen, retorque to a lesser value, then turn another 60degrees
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  #67  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:19 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

day 6

boy oh boy, what fun waiting on parts. at a dead stop waiting on the clutch.

been cleaning everything i can to pass time away.

dont have any suitable surface to try and check the trueness of the clutch pieces parts. sorry to say, but regardless they gotta go back in. if theres an issue, or exceeded wear, i'll just have to do it again in the future with a new complete set up. prior to tear down, there was no funky feeling, vibrations, or slipping to it. except that one time it slipped at a stand still, think i had air trapped in it or something, never figured it out, and it never happened again. no real choice right now but to go with what i got.

but anyways, speed bleeder should be here today, so i can knock that ordeal out. that should prove to be fun also.
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  #68  
Old 03-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by GregRS
i cleaned out the areas behind the seal with q-tips, all shafts where good, with no visible wear.

all seals went in flush to the case, except the output shaft, i put that back where it was since i knew i had the space.


the torque sequence for the clutch housing was something new,, still trying to figure that reasoning out. torque, loosen, retorque to a lesser value, then turn another 60degrees

Ah yes the "Torque Angle Gauge"....them are cheap just bought one for $15.00 or so.

Good way around that is just marking the Bellhousing with the angles 0 and 60. But you probably already found out that "tight is tight", doesn't seem to be much you can do to go passed the torque. Nut sticks there and that's about it unless you really want to put a 3-4 feet extension on the wrench. No need for that...!

Waiting for parts....you can always clean them clutch plates, lots of that blue will come off after a couple hours work. That one had quite a bit on it,all centered where they should be with straight plates. Fine now but for a BMW with only 60 HP. And now I can even see most of the very very fine machining grooves that BMW/Sachs puts on them from new. Now that the blue is gone, all I need is Ajax and Grey Scotchbrites, maybe I'll just do that later and a couple quick deflection/warp checks with straight edge and light.

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  #69  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

didn't get mine quit that cleaned up, that looks nice and new. i think i will have to go over mine again for a bit.

started a full brake bleed last night and called it quits before starting the abs.

just finished the abs up, fluid had some color to start but overall not horrible. all nice and good togo now

today is the day of the clutch, and a nice day to start getting it buttoned back up. pretty sure it will be 2 days doing it, don't want to wind up with extra parts.
3/08/12 5:37 AM MOUNT LAUREL, NJ 08054, US On FedEx vehicle for delivery
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  #70  
Old 03-08-2012, 04:12 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by GregRS
didn't get mine quit that cleaned up, that looks nice and new. i think i will have to go over mine again for a bit.

started a full brake bleed last night and called it quits before starting the abs.

just finished the abs up, fluid had some color to start but overall not horrible. all nice and good togo now

today is the day of the clutch, and a nice day to start getting it buttoned back up. pretty sure it will be 2 days doing it, don't want to wind up with extra parts.
3/08/12 5:37 AM MOUNT LAUREL, NJ 08054, US On FedEx vehicle for delivery

Nothing new about that one....some corrosion where it sat too long without being used. Don't know yet even if it is any good, have to check with old airhead guys first, getting strange readings with the straight edge as in somewhat dished toward the inside but very evenly. Even the friction disk is above specs for a new one, very strange. Should have done that straight edge thing with the RS to compare but there was no need then.

Back to the books I guess....!
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  #71  
Old 03-08-2012, 07:10 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

reassembly going at a pretty good pace. almost problem free.


bolted up the gear box, raised everything up, put the frame bolt in, went to the rear of the bike,,and damn oil at the output shaft. i'm assuming its from being tilted back. cleaned it up to keep an eye on it.

continued with assembly and have bike all back together with exception of the swing arm assembly, and what ever would need to be out of the way for it.

right now bike is lowered back on its center stand, cross tube in place and so on,,


got the exhaust on, and fired it up. gear box spun around while it idled for about 5 minutes, checked the seal, its dry,,,,,,,

any chance it just didn't feel like sealing when tilted back? yea, far shot on that one,,,far as i can tell, its right where the old seal was, and straight. bah, o'well, new seal ordered.


oh, and my clutch alignment tool, worked like a dream
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  #72  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

been trying to figure out what is happening with the output seal leaking. really annoying.

when i installed the seal, i tilted the gear box and nothing happened. ran it for 5 minutes yesterday, and nothing happened.

trying to remember if the gear box was sitting under the bike while i was bleeding the brakes, and maybe just shot some onto it.


i think todays task will be lower the rear of my work platform, fire the beast up and see what happens.
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  #73  
Old 03-09-2012, 10:23 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by GregRS
been trying to figure out what is happening with the output seal leaking. really annoying.

when i installed the seal, i tilted the gear box and nothing happened. ran it for 5 minutes yesterday, and nothing happened.

trying to remember if the gear box was sitting under the bike while i was bleeding the brakes, and maybe just shot some onto it.


i think todays task will be lower the rear of my work platform, fire the beast up and see what happens.

What's happening...I have a very good idea! The lip of your seal is hitting the lube hole and it is leaking. You mounted it recessed as OEM and really should have mounted it proud of that if just by 0.05". I don't think you have the right measuring instruments anyway.

Not that I haven't mentioned that hole a few times already. At least you are finding out before you hit the road again unlike some of them LT guys trusting their "Dealer repairs".

Brake fluid....tranny fluid, they sure don't smell the same. And yes, it may not leak at one angle/point then you turn the output shaft and the lube hole ends up at the bottom, just below the tranny oil level....it will leak then.Just look at the fill hole/oil level from the side vs the shaft, you'll understand. From the size of the shaft there is an inch+ there between lube hole at the top vs bottom, relate that to the oil level....there you go.

And think that the new seal lip may not be exactly where the old one was....BMW has been all over the place the last few years sourcing bearings and seals and that includes Taiwan.

If that can speed you up....that seal size is somewhat common in Seal Catalogues etc. So you may be able to source it locally.
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  #74  
Old 03-09-2012, 11:48 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

with out a doubt its leaking from the shaft side of the seal. not pouring out, but leaking non the less.

i will put the new new one flush to the shoulder when the new one arrives, already ordered it. not in a huge hurry anyways. long as i get it together early next week to enjoy some of the 70 degree days coming up.

busy cleaning and tinkering with everything else for now. reassemble after new seal install should only be a couple hours. really all thats left now is the body work and the swing arm.

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  #75  
Old 03-09-2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Can you check with your old seal if you still have it, that superseded number is bugging me a little, just to see if the seal lips are the same.

Now....do you know if the seal behind the slave is not also acting that way? Mine was. I have put a little weep hole there just in case something like that happens again, that way any oil will seep out and not contaminate the other seals. And.....I'll see right away if I have a leak. LT guys are doing that "weephole" mod a lot.

Did you check that driveshaft and learned how to line it correctly, that is with the U-joints in phase? Not in the books that....!
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  #76  
Old 03-09-2012, 01:51 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Did you check that driveshaft and learned how to line it correctly, that is with the U-joints in phase? Not in the books that....!

this i do not know about,, i did not take the drive shaft ujoints apart

i'll go pull the slave cylinder and have a looksie---- done,, nice and dry

where abouts did you drill a weep hole? i would be willing to do that, and what size?------ done, nice 1/8" weep hole


old seal is gone,, trash day today
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:07 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

You got to figure out first if any of the U-joints have notchiness or play in them. No you can't take them out and some of us wished they could be, would be much cheaper to repair them Driveshafts.

My way....driveshaft in the vise and large pliers, then work the joints and see in any play where the popsicle stick is pointed. There can't be any play there, otherwise you'll get vibrations, failed seals and at the worse failed bearings or a big crounch if the U-joint breaks. They do that believe me...! And at the speed mine was starting to vibrate at and give me signs, I don't think you should go there just yet.





I know now why they fail, not exactly as things may seem but I'll keep that for another time/place. Had to remove one U-Joint to find out, had to after many failed BMW driveshafts in 20 years and needed to understand.

You see that little bit of rust there next to the joints, that may be a bad sign and so is finding most of the U-joints lube inside the swingarm.

I know Vox will most probably read this so....here we go, not just for you Mr.OP:

Corrosion gets in between the caps and yokes and tightens up the caps against the needle bearings, eventually making the U-joints fail. I have some very interesting pics showing just that. So Vox is right but not corrosion inside the caps, from the outside pushing in. How can we avoid that? Looks like we may have to go to some space age lubricants here that could maybe seep in there and maybe prevent. Don't know just yet, will be a few weeks until I take my relatively new one out and have a good look at that. Looks like a Krytox job, just what I need $75.00+++ of special lube that's hard to find in aerosol form.

Back to you:

Driveshaft has to be lined up that way,and maybe hard to do. Line up first and paint marks, then split/lube the splines and much fun re-enligning that inside the tunnel and trying not to loose the paint marks in the lube.



Just like the above, NOT 90 degrees off, look at the pic and compare with yours. And when you are at that, tip your rear drive on its end and make sure "That" seal isn't also leaking. NO easy DIY on that one.



You can do it, takes a little elbow grease to hold the rear drive when you do that and maybe a rag under the rear part of the front driveshaft to hold it in place.5 minutes and very important for the longevity of them Driveshafts/U-joints. I don't have to get into the WHY, it has already been discussed in many other places.

Oh....and look at the pivot bearings, they can't be like that:



Eh....take a pic of that weephole if you can and do some show & tell, that one may save a lot of aggravation to others down the road. Too bad it has to be done with the bike naked/swingarm out. I think there may be a way around that by cutting a little notch in the tranny case at the bottom just behind the gasket, and I know for a fact that some crafty wrenches have managed to remove the slave on its own without again removing too many of the other parts. Different BMW but...something I want to try soon just because I don't always believe BMW and the books.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:27 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
with out a doubt its leaking from the shaft side of the seal. not pouring out, but leaking non the less.

i will put the new new one flush to the shoulder when the new one arrives, already ordered it. not in a huge hurry anyways. long as i get it together early next week to enjoy some of the 70 degree days coming up.

busy cleaning and tinkering with everything else for now. reassemble after new seal install should only be a couple hours. really all thats left now is the body work and the swing arm.


Phenominal job you're doing, with respect to the leaking seal I have a couple of suggestions. The Obvious is to make sure you don't damage it during installation, make sure the shaft is smooth, and undamaged where it mates with the seal, and lastly check the runout on the shaft before putting it back together with a dial gauge. If the shaft isn't running true all the best mecahnic work will be for naught, please keep us posted I'm hooked, and don't even have an RS
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:42 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

wil try to be more careful on the new seal, either i scrubbed it on install or its in to far.

dont have a runout gauge, but eye balled it while it was turning with engine running. even stuck my finger in there with a rag to wipe the oil, seemed true, by the eye atleast. i'm sure it wouldn't take much though for it to leak.


i'll see what i can do for the weep hole pics tomorrow. got chilly and wrapped it up for the day. i was able to get a drill in there with the just cross tube in.

i did the paralever bearings and bushings sept of last year. bearings from the swing arm all looked good with no play to them.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:55 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Photos tend to enhance the look, but from what I see that is not a clutch I would put back. You will read here how to ride and look after your clutch. You can assume that if you replace it for new and all the seals plus extras, you will not have to go back inside again. For that insurance and the care you are already taking, I would replace the clutch parts.

Re the breather hose: I think the hose problem is entirely down to their poor choice of material. As others have found, it is a special molded hose. But I think a better long lasting job could be done using silicone hose, tee and elbow pieces.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
wil try to be more careful on the new seal, either i scrubbed it on install or its in to far.

Isn't that in the books, tape on the splines to prevent any damages to the seals?

Teflon pipe thread sealer....works good, slides right in.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:03 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

And then....got to show you something, too late for you maybe but others may be interested.

Clutch plate wear, easy to see with something straight.Had to check somewhere else first for an answer.And that's not even heat deflection, just normal wear. No I am not replacing that one, friction disc has lots of life left to it and is matched to them plates.

Would be very different if that friction disk was worn and I'd have to replace it, very easy to see that the contact wouldn't be there. So when that friction disk of mine wears out, will be all new parts. Yep gonna cost me but that's a few years down the road and on a bike with less than half the HP of the K1200RS. Still good for another 50,000 miles them parts. If me being cheap doesn't work well....them are easy to get at unlike the other bike.

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Old 03-10-2012, 04:49 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
And then....got to show you something, too late for you maybe but others may be interested.

Clutch plate wear, easy to see with something straight.Had to check somewhere else first for an answer.And that's not even heat deflection, just normal wear. No I am not replacing that one, friction disc has lots of life left to it and is matched to them plates.

Would be very different if that friction disk was worn and I'd have to replace it, very easy to see that the contact wouldn't be there. So when that friction disk of mine wears out, will be all new parts. Yep gonna cost me but that's a few years down the road and on a bike with less than half the HP of the K1200RS. Still good for another 50,000 miles them parts. If me being cheap doesn't work well....them are easy to get at unlike the other bike.


Looks like 15-20 thousandths of an inch can it be machined?
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:50 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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Originally Posted by Northsquad
Looks like 15-20 thousandths of an inch can it be machined?

Close....0.010" and less at the other plate. No need to machine, got the matching friction disk. That wouldn't go on my K1200RS that, too many horses that I like to use. I'd think yes it could be machined but like all clutch/brake parts, less metal, more heat, accelerated wear and possible distortion. Good way to eventually wreck more expensive parts like bearings and splines.

No rush but I may take it to work and show the Chief-Engineer, he also owns a machine shop so I can check for distortion.Just to say that simple checks may not give you all the answers but certainly some good clues as to what is really going on. Most of that....not in Clymer or the BMW book.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

I have a problem understanding how you can check for wear or rather distortion on the plates because in my head I think that can only be done by rotation with the cover plate held centered in some kind of jig. A surface plate or float glass sheet and feeler gauge could give some clues.

It's clutch drag and bad shifting if you get it that will make you wish you had replaced more parts when it all goes back with a new and thicker disc. It's not the depth wear per se that's important, but how true the plates run when the clutch disengages, especially at their outer edges.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

didn't do any wrenching today. more clean up work.

still gotta get those weep hole pics for ya'll

searched here and found the info i need for my two paint colors, frost blue II-464 and marrakesh red II- 392. thee is a glasurit shop not far from me and gonna see what they want to make me some paint up, and if that fails, i'll give a call to colorite.

yes, i know, some prefer the battle scars, but they aren't from me so i can't be proud of them.


focused on the left side fairing. some one previously touched it up with some awfully not matched paint. making it look worse than it was.

before







and after

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Old 03-10-2012, 07:15 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

WOW, that faring has taken a beaten...there is a paint shop out in Ohio (advertises in BMWMOA) that does quality work if you cant find one locally. No issues handy here, but if interested, PM me and I will send off the contact info on Monday. That color scheme is the fastest color of them all!

One of the best threads to hit i-BMW in a very long time! Thanks for taking the time to share and entertain us.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:20 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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One of the best threads to hit i-BMW in a very long time! Thanks for taking the time to share and entertain us.

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Old 03-10-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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WOW, that faring has taken a beaten...there is a paint shop out in Ohio (advertises in BMWMOA) that does quality work if you cant find one locally. No issues handy here, but if interested, PM me and I will send off the contact info on Monday. That color scheme is the fastest color of them all!

One of the best threads to hit i-BMW in a very long time! Thanks for taking the time to share and entertain us.

thanks, i think i got it covered. just gonna get a touch up pen and make it a wee bit more appealing.

nice thing about all that rash is it was free with the bike, i think i got over on that one guy musta let his 2 year old do the touch up.



since its gonna be close to 70 tomorrow, think i'll throw the rest of the body back together and just work around the tail section so when the new seal arrives tuesday and i can finish it up and get some nice test drives in this week.

future following projects are gonna be new battery, front sneaker, valves check, plugs & wires, and trying to catch a top case for a decent price
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:46 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

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I have a problem understanding how you can check for wear or rather distortion on the plates because in my head I think that can only be done by rotation with the cover plate held centered in some kind of jig. A surface plate or float glass sheet and feeler gauge could give some clues.

You are right Vox, no checking for distortion that way, that's why, as I said I'll take that to the lathe,engineer and deflection gauge, not that I need to really,I already know what I need to know. That one worked just fine, I certainly tried that bike before I tore into it.I know how to make them slip if they want to. None of that there and no judders. Just showing that mixing/matching parts is not the way to go sometimes.

Yes the wear, visible on that other pic, all you need is a straight edge of some sort and a good eye/feeler gauges. Does match the wear at the friction disc, measured at the outer/inner.Like that and not in the books to do some quick measurements at different spots, just plain old "Minimum Spec". By design they wear more at the outer and the plates at the inner.





Not too accurate them readings there, hard to hold steady and take pics at the same time. So that's matched parts, been mated together for 50,000 miles and friction disc well within specs. Putting a new flat friction disk in there,it would only engage at about a third of the surface, if that at first....that would be a big NO NO. I could smell that already.

Distortion well..."It is blue it is cooked" or lost some its temper anyway.If not distorted now, good chance they'll do it later.

Nice matched clutch pack on E-bay right now for the K1200RS, no blue/no wear and very affordable.

Anyone contemplating replacing clutch parts on early K1200RS,98s, should read the bulletin, no mixing/matching some of them clutch parts for mechanical/suppliers reasons.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:05 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

THANK YOU
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:32 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

yesterday was like day 8 or 9 or something,, still waiting on the output shaft seal. killing time

spent the day washing waxing and installing all the body work. shines up pretty nice, the old girl does,,,


then i had a thought, remove the front stripes, they where chewed pretty bad on the left anyways and wasn't gonna buy the red paint to touch up stickers.

hair dryer, credit card, and 3m adhesive remover worked pretty good

so heres what i wound up with, not to shabby,,





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Old 03-12-2012, 12:01 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Great work so far.

As for the fairings, I've had mine repainted to repair some road rash - haven't replaced the decals though, BMW's list price for the decals for both sides of the fairing are, believe it or not, $240 - which is just silly.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

gonna get some touch up paint and see how that works out, wont be perfect i know,,

would like to repaint it, but thats gonna be a bit to much dollars, at least for now it is.
just taking off the slop touch up that was on there, and the sticker removal has it looking better. with touch up it might be bearable.

the cowling's tore up pretty good too, to include a tab broken off for the inner piece screw point. that may have to be replaced, or i get pretty darn good with some bondo.

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Old 03-12-2012, 12:35 PM
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pbegins weep hole

heres pics of that weep hole i drilled into the slave chamber,

with a makita drill i was able to get a 1/8" drill bit up in place with swing arm removed, and the cross tube in place.

if the slave or slave seal on the tranny side leaks, with the weep hole well below the push rod hopefully i'll notice the fluid dripping out before real damage occurs. should be easy enough to figure it out, either will smell like gear oil, or brake fluid.





from the bottom looking up, put my flashlight into the slave to show the hole

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Old 03-12-2012, 01:26 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

To the weep hole, no real need for a long thread on that, the advantages are obvious. There are....long threads on that somewhere else.

If that weeps....I guess you'll smell it on the exhaust, never tought of that one. Burning gear oil sure do stink....!

Touch-up paints and wetsanding you can take a lot of them scratches off. Start with the wetsanding (1500-2000) and watch lots of them superficial ones and dulled areas disappear, then concentrate on the gouges. You may want to lay 5-6+ light coats of touch up paint, no need for bondos....use the paint as a filler.And the BMW touch up paint is the one to use. Then wait a week for it to harden before you wetsand again. Works very well, I just did some of that, need to put my nose a few inches from the surface to even notice. Tedious but....cheap!

Remember to always prep the surfaces to get rid of waxes and sillycones, very good chance some of that is embedded in the scratches now, and maybe even some road grits.

Goes, 1500...2000...medium polishing compound.....fine polishing compound.....extra fine scratch remover....Wax....Wax again. Much easier on light colors, darks can be difficult when you are picky!
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Judging by the way that panel fits, the front mounting bracket is probably tweaked a bit, as maybe the tabs molded into the nose fairing piece. The bracket can be bent so that the screw holes on the bracket line up with the holes on the plastic bits - if the mounting bracket on the nose piece is tweaked, it can be moved a bit with judicious use of a heat gun - BTDT. If the tab in the fairing cowl or nose piece is broken off, I'd expect that with some epoxy it can be refitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
gonna get some touch up paint and see how that works out, wont be perfect i know,,

would like to repaint it, but thats gonna be a bit to much dollars, at least for now it is.
just taking off the slop touch up that was on there, and the sticker removal has it looking better. with touch up it might be bearable.

the cowling's tore up pretty good too, to include a tab broken off for the inner piece screw point. that may have to be replaced, or i get pretty darn good with some bondo.

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Old 03-12-2012, 01:51 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

will do on the wet sanding, once i get the proper paint.

also i'll check the mount for the cowling. see if i can tighten it up some.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:19 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

The point about the weep hole is it isn't just a gravity tell tale thing. If you put on the BMW gasket which seals the slave body to the housing, then suffer a slave seal leak, the clutch fluid can be forced under some pressure from the master cylinder, through the pushrod hole on to you know what.

The weep hole should make sure that there is no chance of any pressure build up and give some early warning or the possibility of a few days riding before having to replace the faulty slave cylinder.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:28 PM
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Re: pbegins weep hole

I "installed" the same weep hole when I had my old R1100S apart. Gives you nice peace of mind the see a nice an dry hole.

Have you thought about how you are going to install the swing arm pivot bearings? You'll note in the service manual that they call for a special tool to hold the bearing cone in place while you tighten the lock nut.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
heres pics of that weep hole i drilled into the slave chamber,

with a makita drill i was able to get a 1/8" drill bit up in place with swing arm removed, and the cross tube in place.

if the slave or slave seal on the tranny side leaks, with the weep hole well below the push rod hopefully i'll notice the fluid dripping out before real damage occurs. should be easy enough to figure it out, either will smell like gear oil, or brake fluid.

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Old 03-12-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

gonna give it a shot the same way i did, am gonna do the para lever,,

torque the inner, mark it, then torque the outer ring a hair at a time and see if it moves.

if that fails, i'll call my buddy up and bum a angle grinder and cut away the socket.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

just removed the new old seal.

the new seal is around 1mm deeper than the original, which woulda put me into the oil hole

damn, i shoulda known better to check the new seal, slight oversight. i'm just happy i caught it early.

hopefully i'll have it all back together this afternoon for some intensive road testing
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:34 PM
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Re: pbegins weep hole

Quote:
Originally Posted by George_in_KG
Have you thought about how you are going to install the swing arm pivot bearings? You'll note in the service manual that they call for a special tool to hold the bearing cone in place while you tighten the lock nut.


ok, failing on that one big time,,





update,, was able to snug it up pretty good with a wrench holding the center, then torqued the last few lb's a little at a time to be sure nothing turned on me. worked out
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:11 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
gonna give it a shot the same way i did, am gonna do the para lever,,

torque the inner, mark it, then torque the outer ring a hair at a time and see if it moves.

if that fails, i'll call my buddy up and bum a angle grinder and cut away the socket.

You'll be fine with that,ooops maybe not, just saw the last post. I never cut my socket, maybe next time....! If you have a 3/4" set you can probably stick a 12mm Allen through the back of the socket and put big pliers/pipe wrench on the socket to get you started. Once the big nut is reasonably tight the center shouldn't move much when you torque to specs.

Same with the RD Pivots, if you can find the wrench that goes over that big nut, there is a STD size that fits there,1 3/16" I think, then all you need it a hex socket or wrench.Hold one...tighten the other one then check the torque on the nut. 99% of the time center won't move. But make sure you paint mark everything after for later visual checks.

I don't want to say I told ya about them output seals....so lets see what you got there if it isn't too late???? Or show pics to explain. Your lesson learned can help others big time here but you really have to be more specific.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:43 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

if i remember the original seal was 3/16' thick, the new one was 1/4" thick, front to back as you see it installed.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:47 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

oh, and i dropped it unloading from the platform. got it straightened back out, sorta. now there are scratches i can call my own.

seared off the bolt that goes up through the triple into the risers, was able to drill a small hole, hammer a small screw driver in there and back it out. luckily i had a 6mm bolt in my tool box to put back in.

also bent the rear brake pedal, got it straightened out the best i could. to be honest, i never use the rear pedal anyways.

cowling, and side panels are now a matching set.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:39 PM
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:42 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

just got back from a test cruise around the block,,,,

shifts like no other, silky smooth

zero vibrations indicating anything is not right

brakes awesome

i think it has a wee bit more pep



now for the miss hap:
had it in gear so it wouldn't roll, standing on left side, hold bike upright, pull in clutch, bike starts to roll down ramp, side stand hits the decking, and wallah, she's taking a nap.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:54 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Gotta wonder if flyboy still wants my help now




and oh-yea, during my ride around the block, i had to pass a harley, bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:36 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Shit

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Old 03-13-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

yea,,, i think i may need more than just a touch up pen now,, or maybe a couple of them.

or i can just leave it, since its a matching set, limited edition kinda thing.



took another ride around the block, all smiles, she wants to go. big difference in the clutch feel for the better.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregRS
Gotta wonder if flyboy still wants my help now


OUCH...I almost when I saw that pix...but, the Tupperware was trashed anywho...yes, having a momentary brain fart doesn't take away the amazing work and detailed you laid out here over the past few weeks.

I have a garage and never really needed a need for a lift....I have pitbulls to change out my tires and have used rafters in the past for support.

Sorry man...really am!
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  #113  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:51 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

if anyone who is in the area wants the platform of death, come and get it. it was like 70 bucks in material. i'm in 08060, mt holly, nj

i'm just gonna break it down and take it to the township trash pile.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:02 AM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Ouch stuff happens, but you did such a great job if I were you I'd get the beemer bonyard on the phone order the tupperware you need, and find a good shop to paint the panels, the bike would look as good as it rides, and the value of it would increase tremendously, great job non the less
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:02 PM
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GregRS GregRS is offline
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsquad
Ouch stuff happens, but you did such a great job if I were you I'd get the beemer bonyard on the phone order the tupperware you need, and find a good shop to paint the panels, the bike would look as good as it rides, and the value of it would increase tremendously, great job non the less



already in the works, real good shop near by, that does glasurite, but they would have to order the paint premade, they don't have the exact stuff needed.

just gotta wait on funds to become available. gonna need a new cowling and the two inner pieces. rest will touch up.
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  #116  
Old 03-14-2012, 09:12 PM
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OfftheGrid OfftheGrid is offline
Watch this......
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
.....Anyone contemplating replacing clutch parts on early K1200RS,98s, should read the bulletin, no mixing/matching some of them clutch parts for mechanical/suppliers reasons.
I have been looking and searching for the bulletin and come up empty. Do you have a copy you could share please?
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  #117  
Old 03-14-2012, 09:13 PM
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Shit


+2

That is Murphy at his best. Fantastic posts, but that made me weep.
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Current Bike: BMW K1200RS 1998 Dolphin Blue
BMW Brake Light (Supplemental LED); ETI H7 HID (35w/5K lm); Stebel Compact Air Horn; PIAA 1100x lights; Red LED Dash; Fuzeblock; Garmin StreetPilot 2820; Escort Passport Max; Spiegler Brake Lines, Michelin PR3s.


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  #118  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:35 PM
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fishermunn fishermunn is offline
plastic on, plastic off
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

greg,
if you want to repair your fairings yourself, try a plastic welder. i bought one on amazon for $150.00 and was able to repair extensive damage to my right side fairing, nose cone and engine spoiler. three tabs were broken off the nose cone, three tabs on the grill cover and all were welded back on using fiberflex and screen material. i was able to weld 10 pieces back together on the right fairing, body filler, sanding and ready to paint.
sorry for the mishap. your write up has been fantastic. a huge thank you.
lance
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?p=454925#post454925

Last edited by fishermunn : 03-14-2012 at 10:56 PM. Reason: attachments
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  #119  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:13 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Your writeup has been a good read and it's sad to have this accident at the end. But equally, other things could have gone wrong and as others have said, the plastics can be fixed.

It's history for you now, but for what its worth, I've always used the overhead beam approach, because I know the bike is not going to go anywhere unexpected. However, I do have the first phase of uncertainty riding my bike up on to the lift, which is only about 4" off the ground.
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  #120  
Old 03-15-2012, 10:06 AM
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Skeeter Skeeter is online now
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Re: GregRS's journey into seal territory

Great write up Greg, warts & all. I had my share of "warts" as well in my journey into that territory.
One of which was that my bike tipped over in the process as well. The engine hoist that I was using lowered down over night & the blocking under the engine acted as a pivot point for the bike to hang on its side. Lucky for me, the hoist still partially suspended the bike & the result was only minor damage to the front most part of the fairing where it impacted the garage floor.

As a "rainy day read", here's the link to my trials & tribulations into rear main seal territory.
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=22233&highlight

Vox was a huge help in my journey, I thank him once again for his time & advice. Forums like this have some amazing moments. Vox (via his location in England) having helped my with my project & you sharing your journey are both great stuff.

On a "happy ending" (and who doesn't like all varieties of happy endings), your bike will be dialed in for many miles to come. For me it's been 12k+ trouble free miles since my journey. Last year I made my 1st trip from CT to Deals Gap for a week of riding. Tonight I meet up with the (4) trip veterans to plan my 2nd trip down there in the "post rear main seal" era. Many great rides for you to look forward to. As all have said, thanks for sharing your journey with us. Your pictures, writing & full reality have been great to follow.
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