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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:50 PM
Rob955i Rob955i is offline
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Cant get a rear brake

I just replaced the oem brake lines on my 02 K12 RS and now im trying to bleed the wheel circuits. However I cant seem to get fluid to come out the rear caliper bleeder when when pushing on the rear brake pedal. I can get fluid to come out of the rear brake bleeder when I pull in the front brake lever. This is with the ignition on and pump running. I also have speed bleeders all the way around including the pump.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Shit...same happened to me. Idon't remember exactly which bleeders for the rear circuit have to be bled to build up pressure.I found the solution online very late at night.So I bled the whole system to be sure and voila,worked.

But there is always the BMW procedure.Line replacement?Inject fluid into the caliper bleeder.With the special BMW tool? The bubble free injector....aka a big syringue.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:24 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Not sure if this will help or not, but did you see the How-To Install Brake Lines on K1200RS on the Pirates Lair How-To Page???

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling...kes/index.html

BTW.. I've installed lines on a lot of bikes in my illustrious career and the K1200RS is hands down the hardest to do....
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:34 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate
Not sure if this will help or not, but did you see the How-To Install Brake Lines on K1200RS on the Pirates Lair How-To Page???

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling...kes/index.html

BTW.. I've installed lines on a lot of bikes in my illustrious career and the K1200RS is hands down the hardest to do....

Thanks I'm definitely gonna watch it. I was reading in my Clymers manual and it said that if a brake line comes off you have to take it to a dealer to have the brakes bled and the mechanic needs to hook it up to moditec or something.
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:37 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Shit...same happened to me. Idon't remember exactly which bleeders for the rear circuit have to be bled to build up pressure.I found the solution online very late at night.So I bled the whole system to be sure and voila,worked.

But there is always the BMW procedure.Line replacement?Inject fluid into the caliper bleeder.With the special BMW tool? The bubble free injector....aka a big syringue.

Do you mean the breeders on the pump as part of the rear wheel circuit? I could take the breeders out and inject fluid in thru the hole I guess.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:09 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Do you mean the breeders on the pump as part of the rear wheel circuit? I could take the breeders out and inject fluid in thru the hole I guess.

Always best reading the service manual when dealing with iABS.Instructions on Gunsmoke are for the earlier system and not the same.

Don't guess....too late to hit the shop and copy/paste out of the BMW manual for me.And can't send it through Dropbox.Available for -$10.00 on Tradebit the manual that includes the iABS line replacement procedure.

Indexed/searchable and shows a Zebra?

BTW....there may be something into using DOT4LV (super dot4) as per BMW specs instead of regular DOT4.Interesting braking practices I just had this week.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:37 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

My Clymers manual states that if a brake line is at any point disconnected or if a leak occurs the brake system must be filled and bled by a dealership. This allows the tech to perform a bleed test and MoDiTeC fault code diagnosis.

I think I'm gonna try what you did and bleed the rear circuit on the pump first and see if that gets me anywhere..
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:54 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Nothing in Clymer about the IABS.Sure should have been updated back then but I doubt that will ever happen now.Too old....!

But I think you'll be fine bleeding the modulator.As I was then? 8 yrs ago? Only thing I remember is that the filler adapter also had to be bled?
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:27 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Nothing in Clymer about the IABS.Sure should have been updated back then but I doubt that will ever happen now.Too old....!

But I think you'll be fine bleeding the modulator.As I was then? 8 yrs ago? Only thing I remember is that the filler adapter also had to be bled?

I have the bleeder for the filler adapter, actually I have the speed blessed for it and the BMW one. Clymer was updated I believe, they said take it to the dealer.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:29 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

That's speed bleeder, auto correct strikes again!
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  #11  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Take to a dealer? A dealer who will open the BMW service manual for the brake line replacement procedure and system refill?There goes a few $$$$.

Confusing on Tradebit the offers,they batch the K s.You need the updated service manual,not the early version.

Updated service manual is over 50KB.Not sure if still available from the pirates?I see a lot of 36KB ones on there batched as applicable.May not be so!

Under "brakes" in the service manual.Page 34.17 to 34.28.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:01 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

I have both early and late manuals in attachable format.
Just over 100mb total. Lmk if you want.

Eamon.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:43 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Horse
I have both early and late manuals in attachable format.
Just over 100mb total. Lmk if you want.

Eamon.

Could you send them to my email address?
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:34 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

So if im reading correctly, you first have to fill the system then bleed it. Now I have to take all the speed bleeders off and start over lol! I knew I should have waited to install them after I got the brakes in working order.
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  #15  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:42 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

From memory..do believe it's suggested that the lines be "back filled" (using a syringe & tube, & back fill from the caliper(s), thus pushing any air out of the lines prior to doing the step dance "outward/ie; towards the caliper", procedure.

FWIW, had issues w/ a speed bleeder on the rear on the GT, so just used the normal bleeder screw..Speeders on the nose seem to work fine.
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:58 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYGZR
From memory..do believe it's suggested that the lines be "back filled" (using a syringe & tube, & back fill from the caliper(s), thus pushing any air out of the lines prior to doing the step dance "outward/ie; towards the caliper", procedure.

FWIW, had issues w/ a speed bleeder on the rear on the GT, so just used the normal bleeder screw..Speeders on the nose seem to work fine.

Yes, when I did mine I pushed fluid from the rear caliber up into the rear circuit, then bled the iABS unit, rptwo separate circuits plus the one to the rear caliper. It all worked very smoothly once I labelled the bleed nipples on the ABS unit so that I was bleeding the right circuits!
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:20 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

So to back fill the ABS unit I can just do that by pushing fluid thru the bleed nipple on the front and rear calipers, I won't have to fill the ABS unit from each of the 6 breeders on that?
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Old 04-08-2017, 06:21 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
So to back fill the ABS unit I can just do that by pushing fluid thru the bleed nipple on the front and rear calipers, I won't have to fill the ABS unit from each of the 6 breeders on that?
I had difficulty getting all the air out also. Below are the directions from tha BMW manual.
Note the squeezing of the "feed hose"- this is the line coming down from the reservoir.
Also note that the final step is to bleed the wheel circuit despite the fact it was just filled from the rear bleed screw. Took me a few times to get all the air out. Hope this helps.
• Open the cap (3).
• Completely fill injector, BMWNo. 34 2 551, and
silicon hose with brake fluid.
• Connect bubble-free injector,
BMW No. 34 2 551, to rear brake caliper.
• Open the bleed screw at the brake caliper.
• Inject brake fluid into the wheel circuit until the
reservoir (4) is filled to above the level of the hose
(arrow).
• If required, close bleed screw and repeat the
procedure.
• Expel air from the feed hose (5) of the footbrake
cylinder by squeezing the hose.
• Bleed wheel circuit (a 34.23).
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Old 04-08-2017, 07:20 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Great info guys! Giving me hope that I might actually get this sorted out. I hope I can find a decent syringe around here so I don't have to order one and wait a week for it to come in.
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Old 04-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Great info guys! Giving me hope that I might actually get this sorted out. I hope I can find a decent syringe around here so I don't have to order one and wait a week for it to come in.
Try a medical supply for the syringe. I had to order on line, afterwards my hardware store started to carry them - hobbyists use them for glue ups I believe. If you know someone in the health care profession they may be able to acquire one at work.
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:07 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob955i
Great info guys! Giving me hope that I might actually get this sorted out. I hope I can find a decent syringe around here so I don't have to order one and wait a week for it to come in.
You can try this from You Tube "BMW K1200LT New Brake Lines Installation Tip!". I personally have not used this method but I believe this may be the area that is creating problems when replacing the rear brake line. I had no problems in the front.
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Old 04-08-2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

WalMart for the syringue.Around the fuel cans display.Called a MixMizer and used to mix small quantities of pre-mix.$5.00??? I have seen them in hardware stores and autoparts.

Even comes with a hose just the right size.PVC but no problem with that.Or I don't......!I sure used mine a lot this week,my 11,000 rpms German tools/toys like 50:1 gasoline.
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Old 04-08-2017, 06:54 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

I bought that one from Wally world, I looked everywhere and wasted a whole damn day just about till I decided to go there! lol. Tomorrow hell or high water im getting to it.
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Old 04-08-2017, 09:54 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Yeah and take them Speedbreeders off.No need for them.Had them in the box for years.Installed them and shortly thereafter noticed the mess from the leaky rear.And later on removed the rubber protector from a front one and found a drop of brake fluid in there.Back in the parts bin all of them,I don't need that to bleed brakes anyway.

Syringues...MixMizer is good.No rubber to eventually seize.But yeah....cheap big syringues are available at just about any tack store/big animal feed stores.Either with the open end to take a hose or the screw on needle type.16-18ga needles to go with that in case you need to inject lubes/greases in tricky places?

Polycarbonate type syringues?Food grade for basting and injecting brines etc...?Don't bother,brake fluid will disintegrate them real fast.And spray you....That goes for some of the basters used to remove fluid from the reservoirs before bleeds.Use the right materials....!
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

I noticed that the speed bleeders were a little longer than the oem bleeeders. Im still wondering why that is especially when they are suppose to be direct replacements? I thought they were anyway. I spent a decent amount of $$ on em and would hate to just toss em in the scrap bucket.

One thing about the syringe from walmart its not exactly a smooth operating one. Takes some doing to get it to extract and push in. Maybe I just need to break it in lol. About to get started on it, Im also installing new rear pads, the old ones were almost down to metal but thankfully the disc is fine.
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:48 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Don't know what your milleage is but measure the disk.Minimum is 4.5 mm.New BMW is 5mm.New EBC is 4.9mm.I have been through a few rears....!

Rear caliper gets a lot of shit tossed at it.May be time to push out the pistons/remove the external seals and clean up in there.Do not use brake cleaners or solvents.Manual recommends Methyl Hydrate so use that less you swell the internal and external seals.

Stiff syringue?A little "Red rubber grease"?Fully compatible with brake fluids that.And a little coat behind the external rear caliper seals?Will keep the crap/moisture out.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:05 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Yes, you will have to keep the reservoir filled as you can go through quite a bit of fluid with the pump pushing it through. Pushing from the rear caliper backwards into the system does help, but you still need to bleed the iABS unit which is a bit more fiddly & takes longer.
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1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:45 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Finally a rear brake !! Turns out back bleeding the entire system was key! The ABS unit was a pain in the ads to back bleed but once I did that and then started bleeding R1 the regular way the back brake came right back. Plus the blender on R1 was leaky so I replaced it with the speed blender. So 55 gallons of brake fluid and 10 cans of brake cleaner later, some swearing, alot of swearing it's done. Thank you you guys for all your help. Now we all know what needs to be done the next time someone installs New brake lines and can't the brakes working.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:55 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Brake cleaner? Really?10 cans?

That shit is bad for wiring/BMW coatings and just about everything else.Worst of all.....you may not notice them ill effects for a while.

Spray bottle with water and some dish soap.Flush as you spill.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:02 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Yeah 10 cans of brake cleaner was a joke, so was 55 gallons on brake fluid, that was an attempt at humor. I used a spray bottle of soapy water. I sprayed everywhere that had the potential of being douched by brake fluid many times over. One thing I wanted to mention was that while bleeding the front brakes there was a mysterious milky white substance that came out of left front blender.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Milky white? Could be residual Brembo seal lube from assembly when new.I may have some of that here.They may have used too much at the factory and from my findings and that of others it is sillicone based and doesn't mix all that well with brake fluid.

Mixes at first but let it sit for a few days and turns into greasy milky white clumps.So I don't use it.Red rubber grease for all caliper rebuilds. Two big calipers ready to install on my car.$160.00 ea at the parts store for rebuilts.Doing that job for less than $50.00 with lots of Red rubber grease.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:12 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Funny thing about it is that it came out on the 2nd attempt at bleeding the front. Then it turned the same color as the brake fluid after a few minutes. I guess brake fluid change has never been done on that bike, its only got 20k miles but the same fluid been in there for 15 yrs. Hope I didnt get to it to late.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:13 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Now im on to flushing the cooling system, cant wait to see what surprise come out of that.
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:29 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Hi everyone, i been trawling through as many posts as i can find about the iABS system as i have problems with mine on my K1200LT (UK 2002 model). I started getting my brake light staying on whenever i used the rear brake pedal and did some investigating, i found that the movement on the brake pedal felt very 'gratey', so dropped off the master cyclinder and pulled out the plunger to find a fair bit of rubber gunge. I cleaned everything up and reassembled it, and when i managed to get some pressure back the hose burst at where i guess it had become thin and weak. Got a steel braid replacement and got it installed but now despite following every guide i can find i cant get any pressure on the back brake. I cant get any air or fluid out of the ABS bleed nipples either. Driving me crazy, would welcome any advice before i end up getting it to the stealers.
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:50 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Did you connect up the rear lines correctly?
I had a similar problem when I stripped out all my brake lines and replaced them with braided ones. I had not taken any "before" pics, thinking it was so simple - how could I get it wrong?
If you mix up the feed from ABS servo to rear mc wirth the one to the rear brake disc then you will get the symptom that you describe.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:30 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Hi, i only replaced the one line from the rear MC to the hard line union just near the top of the rear shock.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:12 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Try pushing fluid from the rear caliper backwards into the system & see if you get bubbles coming up in the reservoir.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:05 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Do you think you could give me the step by step guid for back bleeding?
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:58 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Sure...
Get a large syringe, you can get them from chemists or veterinary supplies places.
Cut a short piece of hose to fit over nozzle of syringe at one end and bleed nipple at other end.
Suck up a syringe full of fluid and after loosening the bleed nipple just a quarter turn or so, push slowly on the plunger.
Before you have gone all the way down on the syringe, tighten up the bleed nipple again. That way no air gets into the system. Then you can draw more fluid into the syringe and do it again until you get all the air out of the system.
Bear in mind that if you have gotten air into the ABS pumps then there are 4 bleed nipples that are a pain to get at, and a special method to bleed that system. Check elsewhere on this forum for details on how to do that, as it is quite involved.
Hope his helps.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:00 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by demontrucker
Do you think you could give me the step by step guid for back bleeding?

Basically you force fluid into the caliper through the bleeder with the use of a large syringe, like this,



You can look for one on Google, or here's a link, https://www.google.com/search?q=brak... ome&ie=UTF-8

Here's a step by step brake and clutch flush and bleed for the Brick motor K bikes with the iABS system, that is the "servo" assist brakes, available on non US bikes from '01 to '05, (just the K1200GT in '05) and on US bikes, '02 - '04 and maybe also '05 on the Brick motor K1200GT, http://www.i-bmw.com/attachment.php?...2&d=1502547457

And if you have a brick motor K bike and you haven't replaced stock rubber brake lines with either stock replacements or preferably steel braided lines you should do so sooner rather than later.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:25 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

This works really well. A no bubble constant hand action bleed pump.
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...l_3nhdbykdpf_e
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:09 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

The pushing fluid into the caliper with a syringue is the BMW procedure for "brake line replacement" OR anytime a reservoir goes below the minimum mark during the bleed.

Not sure about the LTs but it is the procedure for the Servo-iABS RSs and GTs.Assuming a vertical modulator on the LTs then the procedure is the same.

There is even a spec as to how many milliliters one should inject with the special tool,the "bubble free injector" aka the big syringue.

And all that followed by a full flush of the ABS system and as per BMW a system check with the Moditec.Or a GS911 for some of us.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:30 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Well latest update, ive done the back bleed through the rear caliper and this produced no bubbles so i feel the rear wheel circuit is ok, its the control circuit i am having most trouble with. I still have no pressure on the brake pedal and consequently no brake pressure at the rear wheel, and im guessing with that lack of pressure is the reason the ABS unit wont bleed. Getting no air bubbles or any fluid at the various bleed nipples. Took master cyclinder off again and im happy that appears to be functioning ok so started again but still same. No pressure at lever or wheel. Getting really frustrated with it now to the point ive emailed nearest BMW dealer to find out rough cost to bleed and reset ABS 😬
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:16 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

I'd try bleeding the front circuits first? Integrated braking system.

Mind you....a little concerning the black muck that you found in the rear.Maybe that plugged the very fine "filter screen" in the modulator.

Elusive filters but you can see them there on a Servo iABS with the vertical modulator:

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=38633
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:59 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by demontrucker
Hi everyone, i been trawling through as many posts as i can find about the iABS system as i have problems with mine on my K1200LT (UK 2002 model). I started getting my brake light staying on whenever i used the rear brake pedal and did some investigating, i found that the movement on the brake pedal felt very 'gratey', so dropped off the master cyclinder and pulled out the plunger to find a fair bit of rubber gunge. I cleaned everything up and reassembled it, and when i managed to get some pressure back the hose burst at where i guess it had become thin and weak. Got a steel braid replacement and got it installed but now despite following every guide i can find i cant get any pressure on the back brake. I cant get any air or fluid out of the ABS bleed nipples either. Driving me crazy, would welcome any advice before i end up getting it to the stealers.

Demontrucker,

That "rubber grunge" is the inside of your OEM brake lines!! What you have is the classic DOT4 decomposing the inside rubber tube. Usually takes about 15 years to show up. The other two symptoms are 1) bulging or burst brake line, and 2) a locked up wheel. You need new brake lines!!

Spiegler and Galfer are the two "best known" makers of kits for most bikes. I got a complete Spiegler kit from Amazon for $210 at the time. I don't think Amazon does it anymore but there are many other sources. Spiegler makes every order on demand. There are just too many colors, fittings, and handlebar heights to have them all premade, but it is very fast. I replaced ALL my hydraulic lines, brakes and clutch. With bleeding and cleaning calipers it takes a day but is very simple. A "MityVac" will help a lot. Use it to suck the system dry before removing the brake lines, then use it to fill the system from the bottom bleed nipple pushing air up and out, like they do at the factory.

My '99 R1100S front wheel locked up one day two years ago. That black "rubber grunge" had clogged up the caliper, made a "check valve" in one of the passages inside the caliper and would not release pressure on the pistons. I had to disassemble and thoroughly clean all the calipers to remove it all. THEN I found out you aren't supposed to disassemble the calipers!! I replaced the brake lines with Spiegler's at the same time.

The only reason I can figure BMW doesn't want you to take the calipers apart is the old "liability" angle, plus they get to sell you three more calipers at $500+ each. The problem is that you CAN'T really clean the passages or cylinders without splitting the calipers. The good part is that they are really very simple and easy to reassemble; 4 screws and an O-ring. Fortunately, Brembo used different (better, more expensive) rubber to make that O-ring and the rubber piston seals and they were all in perfect condition on my bike. If you need any parts or seals for the calipers (BMW does NOT sell these parts), this site does: http://www2.munichmotorcycles.com.au...oducts_id=2228 or here: https://store.bevelheaven.com/Rebuild-Kits-Parts/

I took a bunch of pics of my calipers. What you can't see very well in these pics is that you cannot "flush" the cylinders and passages by "bleeding". There is a direct passage between the bleed nipple port and the brake line port just inside the caliper, so any rubber gunk inside the caliper stays in the caliper. But, air bubbles will rise to the bleed nipple!!

The repair manuals say to manually push the pistons back inside the caliper (and wedge them so they won't be pushed out during bleeding). This only removes a small portion of the old fluid and grunge inside the caliper and doesn't "flush" it at all.

Pics here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kN8PyDxEirl9iVS02
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:14 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Thanks for the replies. Cetainly will be something worth considering regarding replacing the rest of the brake and clutch hoses.
Still no progress though with getting pressure at the brake pedal. Ive had to leave it alone for time being as i could feel the urge to start smashing the bike with a large hammer....
Will go take another look at it tomorrow, going to consider removing the ABS unit for inspection but thats really got to be last resort because of the amount of work involved. If i could just get pressure building id feel i was making progress.
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

I wonder if I am reading this correctly?You have no pressure building but is the rear wheel circuit circulating fluid when attempting a bleed? That one is bled with the servo pump running, not with ignition off/no servos.

If so....circulating fluid constantly but no pressure building? Same happened to me when I replaced my rear line so many years ago.I should have read the manual then?

Mind you the solution I found online at the time was pretty simple.I bled the whole system according to the established procedure and got my pedal action back.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:41 PM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Finally managed to get a rear brake again! Had to take of the two hard lines for the rear brake that go into the modulator, washed a load of rubber fragments out then reconnected, managed to build enough pressure to stat the bleeding process and now got a functional rear brake. Noticed a small leak on front hose now so new hoses ordered for that. Cheers for help
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:43 AM
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Re: Cant get a rear brake

Demontrucker,

All those "rubber fragments" you washed out of that hose came from the liner of the hose itself. That means the hose almost gone. It will continue to disintegrate putting more rubber grunge in your brake system until it fails and squirts brake fluid and leaving you without rear brakes again (or locks up the caliper like mine did).

You might as well replace all the flexible brake lines on the bike at one time instead of waiting until each one fails.
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