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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #481  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Well, I've got just 530 miles on my new K13s and today it started struggling to find an idle when coming to a stop. If I then blip the throttle & let go, it stalls. I called the dealer & told them I want "the fix" at my 600 mile service next Tuesday. Service writer said, "Oh yeah, throttle bodies, fuel additive & software. We can do that"
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  #482  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:31 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoADHD
Well, I've got just 530 miles on my new K13s and today it started struggling to find an idle when coming to a stop. If I then blip the throttle & let go, it stalls. I called the dealer & told them I want "the fix" at my 600 mile service next Tuesday. Service writer said, "Oh yeah, throttle bodies, fuel additive & software. We can do that"
Where did you buy your bike, Don... San Diego BMW??
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  #483  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:53 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Yes, San Diego BMW. I've know Gary Orr since he was in the Navy, 20 years or so.
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  #484  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:20 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoADHD
Yes, San Diego BMW. I've know Gary Orr since he was in the Navy, 20 years or so.

Yup, Gary and his group are VERY GOOD indeed.
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  #485  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:21 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoADHD
Yes, San Diego BMW. I've know Gary Orr since he was in the Navy, 20 years or so.
I've heard good things about their dealership. Actually, I bought my first BMW, an '03 K1200RS from them, but that was when it was Brattin BMW in their old location. They always treated me well... since then I've been dealing with North County BMW for the convenience of being closer, and they treat me well also...
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  #486  
Old 10-16-2009, 12:19 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Yes, I have heard good reports from customers of BMW of North County. Nice to have two dealers.
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  #487  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:31 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

After I read quite a bit this thread I thought I write directly to BMW Motorrad Germany. As I am German and also an engineer that seemed appropriate.

Here their answer translated from German to English:

"Problem: idle rpms is not stable and leads to stalls

Explication: Fuel quality inside of USA is not stable. "Mud" gets on damper flap or throttle flap (however you say it in English). This is especially the case if you drive your bike in low rpms frequently.

Recommendations:
Especially in the USA BMW recommend special addends for the fuel and the cleaning procedure. The motorcycle should also be driven at high rpms. (Yeah, I would like to do that in the USA, highest gear and highest rpms )
Also BMW works on a software update. "

So, cleaning seems to work but even more important in my humble opinion is the new software for the engine management.

I have also involved the German automotive club (ADAC), which is the most powerful consumer organization (15% of all German are members!!). They also bug BMW right now about a good explication for what is going on with the K1300 in the USA and the stalling problem. If I get something from them, I will post it, too.
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  #488  
Old 10-20-2009, 01:20 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Thank you Deichbursch for your interest in our problem. I did notice that my bike's idle returned to normal yesterday after a brisk 150 mile run through the mountains with a couple of accelerations to 10,000 rpm in 2nd, 3rd & 4th gear. With only 630 miles on my bike it is too early to know if my stalling problem will become chronic. I did ask for the "the fix" at my 600 mile service which is being done tomorrow. The service writer was confident of a positive outcome as BMWNA was prepared to buy back another customer's K13, but "the fix" was successful on his bike and made the buy back unnecessary.
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  #489  
Old 10-20-2009, 08:28 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I had "the fix" done too and so did a few others here. It has SO FAR worked for me, but I've only done about 300 miles since getting it done, not near enough to say that was it. Others have had it only work for a few hundred miles, then go back to the stalling. So, I'd have to say at this point that is is temporary at best, very short lived at worst. I want to know what the hell is taking BMW so long to write this software fix! Not like they haven't known since late September what the problem was, or so they say. Time is running out as far as I am concerned, so is the riding season for that matter.....
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  #490  
Old 10-20-2009, 09:02 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy
I want to know what the hell is taking BMW so long to write this software fix! Not like they haven't known since late September what the problem was, or so they say. Time is running out as far as I am concerned, so is the riding season for that matter.....
Its taking time since the problem is not as simple as just a software modification to cover up the influence of deposits which would open up a new can of worms.. The new software would compromise bikes that are unaffected by fuel borne deposits. FYI, they have known this is a deposit issue for much longer than September, a contact from the mothership (anon) with his own unaffected K1300 has been indirectly dealing with understanding the root problem for months. A few throttle bodies from affected bikes were returned and run on a K1300 engine to replicate the problem. Using crappy US 07 fuel, mandated by mostly corn lobby politicos who have foisted this shit on the public, the mothership or their tier support can replicate the problem with ease in short order. Throwing more fuel enrichment into the tables to cover up the initial rich openloop caused by less airflow per throttle angle throws the map lean but the map IS NOT TOO LEAN if the throttle angle corresponds to open loop stoic.

Just the facts guys. A fix is in the works and I am sure that altered map authority aka wide windows and other tricks are in the works but they will help improve deposit tolerance which is a compromise at best for shit and I mean truly crappy fuel that is more common than most care to believe. Unfortunately the K1300 is more sensitive to the deposits partly due to the close proximity of the plates to the intake valves, injectors and the thermosiphoned heated exhaust byproducts also backing up into the manifold runners.

Last edited by Turbocohen : 10-21-2009 at 12:31 AM.
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  #491  
Old 10-20-2009, 10:09 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I got "the fix" today. It included cleaning the throttle bodies, fuel additive & a reset of the adaptive values. I really appreciated that the Service Department did not question me and went ahead and did the work based only on my request without first trying to duplicate the fault. Thank you San Diego BMWMC. The bike started, idled and ran perfectly all the way home (12 miles). With any luck, this will tide me over until the new software is released. In the meantime, I'm going to use Techron, carry it with me in rural areas and run the thing WFO whenever I can without incurring a trip to jail.

Q. Where do you buy Techron? Local Chevron station does not stock it.

Thanks,

Don
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  #492  
Old 10-21-2009, 12:33 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoADHD
I got "the fix" today. It included cleaning the throttle bodies, fuel additive & a reset of the adaptive values. I really appreciated that the Service Department did not question me and went ahead and did the work based only on my request without first trying to duplicate the fault. Thank you San Diego BMWMC. The bike started, idled and ran perfectly all the way home (12 miles). With any luck, this will tide me over until the new software is released. In the meantime, I'm going to use Techron, carry it with me in rural areas and run the thing WFO whenever I can without incurring a trip to jail.

Q. Where do you buy Techron? Local Chevron station does not stock it.

Thanks,

Don

Techron concentrate plus is on the shelf at walmart and most parts places. Make sure you bag it in something that can resist the goo that leaches from the bottle. Techron is tough to contain and the containers are always gooey.
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  #493  
Old 10-21-2009, 04:57 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocohen
Its taking time since the problem is not as simple as just a software modification to cover up the influence of deposits which would open up a new can of worms.. The new software would compromise bikes that are unaffected by fuel borne deposits. FYI, they have known this is a deposit issue for much longer than September, a contact from the mothership (anon) with his own unaffected K1300 has been indirectly dealing with understanding the root problem for months. A few throttle bodies from affected bikes were returned and run on a K1300 engine to replicate the problem. Using crappy US 07 fuel, mandated by mostly corn lobby politicos who have foisted this shit on the public, the mothership or their tier support can replicate the problem with ease in short order. Throwing more fuel enrichment into the tables to cover up the initial rich openloop caused by less airflow per throttle angle throws the map lean but the map IS NOT TOO LEAN if the throttle angle corresponds to open loop stoic.

Just the facts guys. A fix is in the works and I am sure that altered map authority aka wide windows and other tricks are in the works but they will help improve deposit tolerance which is a compromise at best for shit and I mean truly crappy fuel that is more common than most care to believe. Unfortunately the K1300 is more sensitive to the deposits partly due to the close proximity of the plates to the intake valves, injectors and the thermosiphoned heated exhaust byproducts also backing up into the manifold runners.

Again, I realize I have a K12, but my TBs were clean, and service said there were no deposits. I'm still having problems, even in colder weather (65 deg F). It just seems like too much of a coincidence that my stalls are exactly like the 13s. Like others, my bike ran ok after they reset the ECU and cleaned the already clean throttlebodies, but started running poorly again shortly after. I think the ECU reset fixes the problem for 50 miles or so, then it goes to crap again.

I tried techron, have been using only top tier, etc.
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  #494  
Old 10-24-2009, 12:47 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I'm at 1,000 miles & no stalling since my 600 mile service & "the fix". I used about 1 oz. of Techron in my last two fill ups.

Dealer told me yesterday BMWNA is very aware of this problem and it's getting a lot of attention. However, this particular dealer has had only one K13 with a severe stalling problem out of the many K12/13 s,r & GT's they have sold.

Just for fun, I rode out to the desert yesterday (away from driveways, dogs & humanity in general - I had 3/4 mile straight) and tached up to 11 in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and kept in the throttle in 5th for a bit. Bike produces tunnel vision with everything in the peripheral appearing to melt. I don't think I will ever do a top end run on this bike - very extreme.
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  #495  
Old 10-25-2009, 10:32 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Here is a link to some proven effective intake cleaners. The foaming throttle plate cleaner is very good stuff per anon.

Here is a patent from a Ford employee that deals with preconditioning the throttle bore.

Deposit related stalling and hesitation is a common problem. Here is a PM article.. check out #58
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  #496  
Old 11-04-2009, 01:19 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I think they've sent all BMW Dealers to the same training class so they can continue to tell a consistent story. "BMW is aware of the problem, we are working on a solution"... blahh blahhh blahhh.... I bought my bike in April of this year. I've been hearing this ever since but NO FIX! If anything the idiots that call themselves BMW Technicians and Field Service Engineers (aka FSE's) don't know how to fix a K1300S. If the diagnostic tools don't point them to a particular part to replace, everything works as designed. My bike has been in the shop 7 times since April, and it had to be towed 3 of those times. High and low speed stalls, no explanation from the BMW Tech's or FSE's, everything works perfectly. I'll need to remember that next time I'm stranded beside the highway, maybe it's just all a bad dream. My most recent tow was this past Sunday, November 1st. Bike stalled at 154 miles, would restart in neutral only, then engine shuts down when shifted into 1st gear. But according to BMW, this isn't really a problem. Everything is fine, all the switches check out (kickstand, clutch, gear select) no problem. Funny it takes a tow truck to transport the bike to the dealership and the hear it's all working as designed. I've had it with BMW and all this BS. I decided to filed my Lemon Law case tonight. I'm done with BMW and all the pain and suffering it takes to own an inferior product. This wasn't the case with my K1200RS. Get your shit together BMW! There's to much competition in the bike market to survive with these tactics. Looking forward to the full recall on the K1300S and K1300GT. It's coming.....
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  #497  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:17 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBMW
If anything the idiots that call themselves BMW Technicians and Field Service Engineers (aka FSE's) don't know how to fix a K1300S...
I take painful exception to that comment friend. There are quite a few good BMW technicians that you are unfairly labeling as idiots. The real idiots are the beaucrats in our federal government who legislate problematic agrochemistry to be mixed with relatively unproblematic petrochemistry. Yep, our federal government, the idiots we the people elected deserve your scorn. Contrary to some opinions on this forum stating the bmw brand is the only brand having issues with crappy fuel quality reminds me of a quote by Reagan.. "they know so much that isn't so".

I have been on the other side of the fence developing oem fuel system parts to a spec then watching parts return due to failures that were discovered to be caused by exposure to fuel that did not meet spec only to be blamed for developing and validating a part that cannot tolerate any variety of contaminated hydrocarbons that are mis marketed as motorfuel.. The fuel folks point the finger at the engineer, the customer points the finger at the engineer, management points the finger in the air, the engineer gets a shit sandwich. I can assure anyone that if our bikes were fueled with motorfuel that consistently met a real motorfuel spec, not a US government agrolobby mandate (that is often a way off spec cocktail to begin with) then this discussion would not have mushroomed to 497 posts so far.

The stalling and hesitation problem seems to be predominantly caused by accelerated development of deposits on the throttle plates in such a manner as to cause disruption of the area relative to % throttle angle to be significantly obstructed. The "fix" may involve throttle components with improved deposit tolerance or "other" mods but until then the patch is to use better quality fuels and to dose every tankful of fuel with additives that prevent and dissolve the compounds that become deposits. The scorn being directed at technicians is ill directed. Sorry for your troubles but technicians are not the cause. As a former dealer tech from long ago, may I encourage you to get to know the folks that work on the bike a little better before grouping them or the fse's all together. Some suck and some of them are pretty sharp.

Now, if you truly find your dealer to be a piece of shit, name them right here >>X<<

T

Last edited by Turbocohen : 11-04-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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  #498  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:59 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Well as much as I appreciate your opinion the verdict is still out on this being a fuel issue. The K1200 bikes had similar issues which were never resolved (well BMW never resolved but Power Commander did). You've tipped your hand on the obvious BMW biased opinion, "As a former dealer tech from long ago", so I'll discount those remarks completely. If you know creditable, capable, qualified Tech's in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that know how to fix these POS K Bikes, send me names. I haven't had the opportunity to meet one yet.
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  #499  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:32 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I am also from the DFW area and get my work done in Plano. My read of the service department there (concerning my k1300s) is that there just isn't anything they can do. However, they don't try to troubleshoot unless asked to do such, act very complacent about any service issues you have and don't fill you in on what is happening (but it mostly seems as the direction they get from BMWNA to keep their mouths shut).

I haven't been for Fort Worth yet, but that's a long drive for a bike that I take to the shop 2-3 times per month. However, my first 600 miles on the bike included over 300 miles to/from the dealer.
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  #500  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:10 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBMW
If you know creditable, capable, qualified Tech's in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that know how to fix these POS K Bikes, send me names. I haven't had the opportunity to meet one yet.
K bikes are not pieces of shit. Neither is bmw of ft worth. Spoken to Leo or A.C.? Call em at 817 595 0000 Tell em Turbo sent ya. Yeah you got fuel choices in your area and a lot of em suck real bad. Some of the best and worst fuel is there due to being an epa non attainment zone.. Stick with Chevron Supreme anywhere near DFW and you are better off than almost ANY other brand.
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  #501  
Old 11-04-2009, 01:28 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocohen
K bikes are not pieces of shit. Neither is bmw ....
[rant on]

I can' help but want to scream every time I read that it's the fault of the gas in the USA. If that's so then why aren't other brands suffering? If that's so then why hasn't BMW bought a Honda or Suzuki or Yamaha or HARLEY for that matter and figured out why THEY don't have a problem?

BMW is attacking (HA,HA) this problem like they always do. Stall (HA,HA,HA) until the number of new bikes in the field is at a low enough level to cause the noise to die down to acceptable levels.

RS fuel disconnects anyone? Heck, go all the way back to R90 diode boards if you wish. BMW simply never ever resolved an issue in a timely manner. But BMW has one techno edge on ever other manufacturer; starting with the RS series a BMW can "learn" it's fuel mapping. And in ever case it's best to disconnect the battery from time to time and make the bike "dumb" again so it will run better!

Fuel? I blame BMW and I don't even HAVE a problem. Our K1200S runs GREAT, but I want this resolved for the sake of our fellow BMW K1300 owners who are getting a BS story form the mothership. It is WAY past time for a resolution to this serious SAFETY issue.

[rant off]
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  #502  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:08 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I'm an engineer and, generally speaking, if a part was designed to a spec and the part doesn't work......the spec was bad and you need a new one. A specification is written by people and they can be faulty. "Specs" aren't handed down from the Gods and there is nothing holy about them. If (and that's a big "if" since the cause and effect of the fueling issue is still not settled) BMW used an internal spec centered around a specific type of fuel, then that would be very short-sighted indeed given the wide range of quality gasolines in the world. If they did not consider all other gasolines...especially in their primary sales market...then that's just...well...dumb.

Honda doesn't have this problem. Neither does any other bike that I know of. There is no real reason that fuel should cause a problem like that....if indeed it is the fuel and not something else at this point.

The problem may be cultural. Germans really engineer things. It's what they do and they do it well. For German products, engineering and function in an ideal world sometimes takes precedence over design and reliability in the real world.

Why use, for instance, four valves per cylinder when five is better? (My daughter's VW Jetta). Her Jetta is also so finely tuned with a small but high output 1.8T engine that one must be careful to use only Euro spec fully synthetic oil to avoid a sludge problem that will destroy the engine. No problem to find the oil, but it's a PITA in the real world. But it's the German way. The BMW (car) iDrive? Really? Now there's a complicated solution without a problem.

Anyway; this is not a technician problem. This is BMW's problem and they are being slow with a solution.

I'm shopping for a bike and I've always considered the K1300S as the best solution out there for my needs.... if the engine worked properly. I keep wanting BMW to come out with the "Ah ha!" solution, get it to dealers for current bike owners, and get it into the 2010 in time for my needs. I'm still waiting.
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  #503  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:33 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
[rant on]Fuel? I blame BMW and I don't even HAVE a problem. Our K1200S runs GREAT, but I want this resolved for the sake of our fellow BMW K1300 owners who are getting a BS story form the mothership. It is WAY past time for a resolution to this serious SAFETY issue.[/rant off]
Don't sugar coat it.. tell us how you really feel. Point your finger at BMW all ya want but I think it is very counter productive to fault technicians. There is a design issue involving deposit tolerance and the mechanism transporting the stuff that is precipitating on the plates. There are a lot of k 1300's running quite well dare I say most. If it was just all bmw's fault then who gets the credit for all of the bikes that run well?

Respectfully, T
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  #504  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:01 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocohen
... Point your finger at BMW all ya want but I think it is very counter productive to fault technicians. ...
I'm not faulting the Techs nor your input, which is very concise and appreciated. My rant is with BMW for being so slow to resolve this issue. Any issue.

And if we needed a bike today it would be a K1300S. Absolutely no doubt. But BMW really needs to solve this stalling issue. Yesterday would have been late.

There is a post about Morton's BMW and their in-house fix here. No details yet, though.
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  #505  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:07 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I don't blame the dealers, service reps or technicians. It is BMW. Why does my bike and many others like it have the stalling issue? Gas? BS. My son's V-rod runs fine. So deos my other son's BMW 1200C ( 1999) Both my Audi cars ( German engineered) run just fine, one on med range and the other hi test.

Either BMW did not properly run these bikes while engineering them, or sloppy suppliers or whatever?

BMW just has to own up to their faulty engineering or production. I am almost ready to leave the bike with the dealer and invoke a lemon law case. I love the bike, but trhese problems are real serious. I just hope nobody gets hurt or killed when the bike stalls at the wrong place and time. First my 2006GT and now my 2009GT.....

Ok, off the soap box....
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  #506  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:24 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Take a look at this thread
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:07 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Ah well, yes I do happen to know AC and Leo at BMW of Ft. Worth. AC sold me my bike and Leo is a Service Mgr/Advisor at this dealership. So, to be clear, these folks ARE NOT BMW Tech's that I was speaking about. Bottom line is if the bike doesn't store a fault code the tech's don't know how to fix the bike. The K-Bikes have a complicated CAN System (basically a computer and computer network) which monitors various components on the bike. It's interesting to read the threads on the reported problems with switch gear, as this will send a signal to the motorcycles computer to shut the engine down. There are several switches on the bike that enable or disable the engine (starter button, kill switch, neutral switch, side-stand switch, clutch switch etc.). On my bike no fault codes are reported and when tested, the side-stand switch and clutch switch check out fine with BMW's diagnostic tools. My particular K1300S stalls (high speed, low speed and at a stop), won't restart in gear (clutch pulled in) and will only restart in neutral, then engine kills when shifted into 1st gear. Common sense would lead anyone (trained or untrained on BMW motorcycles) to conclude there may be a problem with one or several of these switches. All that said, BMW has refused to spend 1 dime on replacing a switch to resolve this problem. Instead, my bike stalls, leaves me stranded beside the road and requires BMW Roadside Assistance to tow the bike back to the dealer, who doesn't know how to fix the problem. I purchased my bike in April, it's been towed 3 times and in the shop 8 times and counting. I wouldn't recommend experiencing a high speed stall as I have. Not much fun! Someone's going to get seriously hurt or killed if BMW doesn't get their act together quickly.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:23 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Locus, once again, IT IS NOT THE SWITCHES!!!!. If you look at the stalling poll, you'll see that 16 of 39 stalling bikes had the NEW switches on them when they stalled including mine. Absolutely NOT related! Of course in a case like TexasBmw's it sounds like he DOES have a switch problem since his stalling is very different from the common variety.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBMW
Ah well, yes I do happen to know AC and Leo at BMW of Ft. Worth. AC sold me my bike and Leo is a Service Mgr/Advisor at this dealership. So, to be clear, these folks ARE NOT BMW Tech's that I was speaking about. Bottom line is if the bike doesn't store a fault code the tech's don't know how to fix the bike. The K-Bikes have a complicated CAN System (basically a computer and computer network) which monitors various components on the bike. It's interesting to read the threads on the reported problems with switch gear, as this will send a signal to the motorcycles computer to shut the engine down. There are several switches on the bike that enable or disable the engine (starter button, kill switch, neutral switch, side-stand switch, clutch switch etc.). On my bike no fault codes are reported and when tested, the side-stand switch and clutch switch check out fine with BMW's diagnostic tools. My particular K1300S stalls (high speed, low speed and at a stop), won't restart in gear (clutch pulled in) and will only restart in neutral, then engine kills when shifted into 1st gear. Common sense would lead anyone (trained or untrained on BMW motorcycles) to conclude there may be a problem with one or several of these switches. All that said, BMW has refused to spend 1 dime on replacing a switch to resolve this problem. Instead, my bike stalls, leaves me stranded beside the road and requires BMW Roadside Assistance to tow the bike back to the dealer, who doesn't know how to fix the problem. I purchased my bike in April, it's been towed 3 times and in the shop 8 times and counting. I wouldn't recommend experiencing a high speed stall as I have. Not much fun! Someone's going to get seriously hurt or killed if BMW doesn't get their act together quickly.

It sounds like you have a good lemon law case, why not ask BMW to buy the bike back?
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:57 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

This particular condition is a CAN/Switch issue. Reference material (light reading):
http://www.bmwra.org/otl/canbus/

The other stalling condition which LOTS of people are feeling the pain of (me including, I just happen to have 2 stalling conditions) could likely be a ECU issue or something else.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:00 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I've asked them to repair my bike, they refused. I asked them to replace the bike with another that works, they refused. That being the case, they've forced my hand and Monday I decided enough is enough so I've filed a Lemon Law Case against BMW.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:57 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I'm now at 1,300 miles and have had zero stalls, or rough idle since "the fix" was done at my 600 mile service. So far, so good. It is puzzling that it appears to correct the problem for some K13s, but not others.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:22 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

<<The real idiots are the beaucrats in our federal government who legislate problematic agrochemistry to be mixed with relatively unproblematic petrochemistry. Yep, our federal government, the idiots we the people elected deserve your scorn. Contrary to some opinions on this forum stating the bmw brand is the only brand having issues with crappy fuel quality reminds me of a quote by Reagan.. "they know so much that isn't so".>>

With all due respect, that's bullshit. I am very "active" in motorcycling, and I have yet to see or hear of any other bike suffering a similar malady. Name one, please. My CBR1000RR must be an "extraordinary" design because, for 3,600 miles, it has run PERFECTLY and idles as if it was running on custom blended fuel.

The "crud on the throttle plates/cleaning issue" is even MORE BULLSHIT. For the umpteenth time...........I did NOT have the cleaning done, but I DID have the reset done, and the bike was CURED.......for about 600 miles. Obviously, an electronics issue. But, I guess we each will believe what we need to. I'm not in denial. Just because it's a BMW (big deal!) doesn't mean that the problem must lie elsewhere.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:28 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

OK I think it's time for an update from me:
I have around 2k miles since the "cure" with no stalls or rough idling. The idling has got noticeably smoother as the miles have increased.
I may be unlucky, but my 2002 Honda Magna (carburetter) had rough idling/stalling/poor economy until I discovered a badly installed muffler gasket. It took the dealer around 6 months to NOT find the problem, so I took it on myself. The dealer and Honda tried blaming "bad gas" etc. Maybe some of those engineers now work for BMW
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:09 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx9rmal
With all due respect, that's bullshit. I am very "active" in motorcycling, and I have yet to see or hear of any other bike suffering a similar malady. Name one, please. My CBR1000RR must be an "extraordinary" design because, for 3,600 miles, it has run PERFECTLY and idles as if it was running on custom blended fuel.


Sorry to rain on your parade, but try a Google search for "CBR1000RR oil burning".
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:52 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBMW
I've asked them to repair my bike, they refused. I asked them to replace the bike with another that works, they refused. That being the case, they've forced my hand and Monday I decided enough is enough so I've filed a Lemon Law Case against BMW.
Good for you!!! More of us should put the pressure where it belongs.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:06 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebeltown
Good for you!!! More of us should put the pressure where it belongs.

my k1300s stalled with exactly 15 miles on the clock and the stalling grew progressively worse as the summer months kicked in and temps climbed into the 90's. a few weeks ago i took my bike to mortons BMW in fredricksburg, va and their service dept had developed their own fix to the stalling problem. i don't recall all the details but it involved adjusting the throttle bodies to allow in more air. since mortons performed their magic on my bike it hasn't stalled once and hasn't even tried to stall once. i have about 300 miles on the clock since the fix and idle is normal around 1000-1100 rpms and the bike just runs great. only time will tell if the fix is permanent but so far so good and it's a damn shame a service dept could come up with a fix while the mothership has their thumbs up their asses.

if you live near mortons bmw and you have the stalling problem go see them to get your bike fixed. checkout my thread "the fix is in 1300s no more stalling"
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:23 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Just got a call from my service manager at my local BMW shop. THE FIX IS IN! They have a new ECU software update that "addresses the idle stalling issue". So boys and girls, call your dealers and get loaded up. I know , I'm being optimistic, but I figure they had better tested this one VERY carefully before releasing it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:01 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

My dealer also told me of this, but I think I will wait until more details as my bike has not stalled in a while. "If it ain't broke - don't fix it"
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:05 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy
Just got a call from my service manager at my local BMW shop. THE FIX IS IN! They have a new ECU software update that "addresses the idle stalling issue". So boys and girls, call your dealers and get loaded up. I know , I'm being optimistic, but I figure they had better tested this one VERY carefully before releasing it.
My dealer just told me the same thing... mine has only stalled once, at 1125 miles... but I figure if it did it once, it will do it again... I hope this is the answer!!
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:39 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Right on! My dealer confirms. I've had no issues since "the fix" (800 miles ago), but I'm having the 14.1 ECU update done Saturday so I can have the latest greatest.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:42 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Sounds like they may have revised idle validation and put some e-dashpot in for decel control. Either way it may be a step in the right direction.
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Old 11-12-2009, 08:22 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
My dealer just told me the same thing... mine has only stalled once, at 1125 miles... but I figure if it did it once, it will do it again... I hope this is the answer!!
Please keep us in the loop. I also haven't had any issues in a while and I'm skeptical about fixing something that ain't broke.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:48 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I had the 14.2 update done yesterday and took it out for a 250 mile spin through the mountains today. There is no "official BMW Bulletin" on this update and it comes to the dealer via the PUMA network. It seems to work very well and I was pleased with throttle response and not a hint of idle stumble or stalling. I think it's good to go.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:17 AM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoADHD
There is no "official BMW Bulletin" on this update and it comes to the dealer via the PUMA network..
Confirmed: Per 2 Anon's (dealer technicians) 14.2 is a must do update with several fixes for affected and zero downside for unaffected bikes. Even bikes with oodles of crud on plates have enough idle compensation to cover up the issue but they still suggest cleaning up the intake as regular 6K maintenance and adding techron concentrate plus when questionable fuel is all that is available. In addition they also confirm that less crud formation has been witnessed by using the uber $ dealer supplied 5w/40 LL bmw labeled oil at the 600 mile which is a bargain if it truly helps.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:41 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I believe a engine management update recall is going to be made soon with no requirement to do a throttle body cleaning.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:13 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjack
I believe a engine management update recall is going to be made soon with no requirement to do a throttle body cleaning.

My dealer told this to me last week. Too bad! I would have liked a throttle body cleaning just to keep my bike pristine..
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:15 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

The update is out. Go get it. It works great.

You'll notice a softer deceleration, holding the RPM at 1750rpm notch, then progressively go down until it's at 1250rpm approaching complete stop/idle.

I do notice too that the engine seems to run smoother... or maybe that's just me.
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  #529  
Old 08-27-2013, 08:40 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

OK guys this thread concerning the stall issue ended in 2009. Why then would I be having the same issue with my new '13 K13S? Any other recent problems with stalling other than mine??
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:39 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

A friend of mine had a similar but different stalling issue with his 2012 K1300S. After multiple trips to the dealer, accusations of "bad gas", replacement of control modules, cleaning of throttle bodies, etc, etc. It turned out to be a bad crankshaft sensor. Nothing to do with the previous issues HTH.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:10 PM
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Cool Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucev
I'm not a fuel injection expert but it sure sounds like the mapping at closed throttle position is set to low. When you close the throttle the fuel is shut off. The engine is responding to this and under load it stays running, as soon as you pull the clutch lever in the rpm's drop right off and with no fuel the engine dies.

This is where the PC shines. You can set it up so that this will never happen. I know we should not have to deal with this on such a sophisticated motorcycle.

I test road an 09 and I reported in another post that the fueling was better but not perfect. It did not stall on me but twice on a 25 mile test ride the throttle went away at very slow speed and I almost dropped the bike in one of the instances. It came close to stalling so maybe it was going to and I just caught it before it happened.

My 07 has basically ran good and I never had any upgrades. When the dealer did my clutch this winter they upgraded it to whatever version is current. It still has a slight stumble at low rpm'd (under 3K). What I don't like is that it feels slower, so I think it actually is running smoother. It used to feel very strong when you hit 6.5K rpm's (it pulled like a freight train) now it just rev's right through very smoothly. Don't get me wrong the bike is still very fast, just feels not as fast as it once was.

Hi Bruce,

Here again to ask you a question. I went to this forum because all of a sudden, my 2011 13S is doing this. It hasn't stalled completely yet but when down shifting in slowing traffic, it starts to buck. Although this sounds crazy, the problem started after I changed my oil and filter without any problems and I have checked level and its perfect. Probably just coincidence. I do have a PC on the bike and have a GS-911 but haven't had time to check if it will detect this problem. Thanks.

Mike
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcphillips
OK guys this thread concerning the stall issue ended in 2009. Why then would I be having the same issue with my new '13 K13S? Any other recent problems with stalling other than mine??

You aren't alone, I am now having the same problem with my 2011 13S with only 7k miles on it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:31 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

All of the guys that had this problem in the past are silent on the subject now. Maybe they don't want to jinx their luck. Next stop is the shop. I'm kind of cynical about the dealers since the standard answer for these problems is " never seen this before".
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:51 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Just talked to the BMW service manager and described the stalling issue. As I had guessed he noted that my new bike should have all of the updated ECU changes since the problem was a chronic one in 2009 and that they haven't seen this problem on any new bikes.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Not sure how simular they are but my 2006 K12S had the exact same issues and it turned out it was the stepper motor. (not sure if the spelling is correct) but it controls the idle system. Basically they did the following:
Replace the idle system, replaced the coils, new plugs, cleaned the throttle bodies and cleaned the injectors.

Runs like a freekin sewing machine at all RPM's now, on or off throttle

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:09 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGFUSION
Not sure how simular they are but my 2006 K12S had the exact same issues and it turned out it was the stepper motor. (not sure if the spelling is correct) but it controls the idle system. Basically they did the following:
Replace the idle system, replaced the coils, new plugs, cleaned the throttle bodies and cleaned the injectors.

Runs like a freekin sewing machine at all RPM's now, on or off throttle

Garrick

Hey Semper Fi to you Devildog!

Thanks for tip. I put some fresh gas in it yesterday. Didn't ride today. Will take it out on I-95 to work tomorrow and see if it is gone. I have a computer GS-911 to check the systems and will see if it gives me an answer.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:24 PM
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGFUSION
Not sure how simular they are but my 2006 K12S had the exact same issues and it turned out it was the stepper motor. (not sure if the spelling is correct) but it controls the idle system. Basically they did the following:
Replace the idle system, replaced the coils, new plugs, cleaned the throttle bodies and cleaned the injectors.

Runs like a freekin sewing machine at all RPM's now, on or off throttle

Garrick
K1300S is different, they updated the airbox and idle controls on late 08 K12S's and all K13S's
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:49 AM
elp_jc elp_jc is offline
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikegio78
It hasn't stalled completely yet but when down shifting in slowing traffic, it starts to buck.
Just for clarification, stalling means engine is DEAD (there's no 'he hasn't died completely' either ). Now, you didn't explain how bad the bucking was. Did it get to the point of almost stalling, then catching up? Or was it more like an erratic idle, between lets say, 1K rpm and 1.2K? And most importantly, did it start doing this all of a sudden, or you just bought the bike? Curious about that. Anyway, my '09 sometimes has the erratic idle I described above, and it's considered 'normal'. But has never come close to stalling. And yes, it had the ECU reprogrammed. What I HATE about that change is the exaggerated rev-hang it has now after either blipping or closing the throttle. It hangs around 2K rpm for a second or two, before coming down. Extremely annoying, especially during slow-speed maneuvers. Good luck man.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:24 PM
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mikegio78 mikegio78 is offline
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc
Just for clarification, stalling means engine is DEAD (there's no 'he hasn't died completely' either ). Now, you didn't explain how bad the bucking was. Did it get to the point of almost stalling, then catching up? Or was it more like an erratic idle, between lets say, 1K rpm and 1.2K? And most importantly, did it start doing this all of a sudden, or you just bought the bike? Curious about that. Anyway, my '09 sometimes has the erratic idle I described above, and it's considered 'normal'. But has never come close to stalling. And yes, it had the ECU reprogrammed. What I HATE about that change is the exaggerated rev-hang it has now after either blipping or closing the throttle. It hangs around 2K rpm for a second or two, before coming down. Extremely annoying, especially during slow-speed maneuvers. Good luck man.

Well, good news so far. No it never completely stalled but seemed to come close. Would buck very hard and I would give some throttle and pick up speed and would go away. I bought the bike about 1300 miles ago so this was totally new. BUT, I took my GS-911 and did the "Step Motor" calibration as someone mentioned that was a problem they had; rode it into work on I-95 today in usual heavy traffic (about 30 miles) and the problem was gone. Who knows, time will tell if it stays that way. Thanks all who posted!
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  #540  
Old 09-09-2013, 03:39 PM
ArmyDoc ArmyDoc is offline
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Re: K1300S Stalling?

I have a 2012 K1300S HP and I've been having this problem as well. This weekend I was making a righthand turn, when I downshifted and the bike stalled. I tried to "restart" it by coming off the clutch, but it ended up locking the back tire. I almost ended up dumping the bike. It's not a problem when I'm coming to a stop, and it happens. However, this is the first time it occurred while downshifting. I'm now guaranteed at least one stall during my little trips. Any help would be appreciated.
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