I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1300 Series Motorcycles > K1300S > "K13S/R" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-05-2017, 12:17 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Upon returning home from the Hill Country Rally, we had a powerful storm which produced a lot of lightning.

Unfortunately, we had a strike at my house. I don't believe my house took a direct hit as the house itself didn't show any damage.

However, the strike was close enough to take out two big screens, computer, both garage door openers, our hot tub and most importantly all three of my Battery Tenders.

The issue I'm having is that I had my 2012 K13s attached to one of the Tenders.

I went into the garage and observed that the Tender was no longer flashing and could smell where the circuitry had burned up.

I immediately disconnected the Tender and started the BMW. It started right up and everything functioned normally.

I also did this same procedure with the wife's Yamaha as well as my Ducati. They were fine too.

Now, a couple of days later I attempt to start the BMW and don't get ANYTHING. I took the battery out and had my local shop test it. It tested bad so I ordered a new battery (due to arrive tomorrow).

While waiting, I decide to put the battery from my wife's Yamaha (FZ6R) into it and see what happens.

I turn the key and only the headlight and the display showing "BMW" and the clock come on.

No warning displays, horn, turn signals, switchgear functions, ignition, NOTHING!!!!

Think it's possible that the surge fried the electronics? i presumed that the Tender would have taken the hit and any electricity would have stopped there.

It just seems odd that the bike fired right up and everything was fine directly after the strike and now two days later nothing works

Thoughts, opinions, advice, etc.....

Can't get the bike to my nearest dealer until Saturday (he's two hours away) and they don't know for sure when they can even look at it.

I'm definitely worried that the electronics package took a hit.


Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-05-2017, 07:59 AM
cousi's Avatar
cousi cousi is offline
Banned Spammer
Post: 9,774 Thanks: 1,806
Thanked 1,819 Times in 1,071 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Champlain Valley, VT USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

You don't mention how old these batteries are and if you tested the Yamaha battery voltage.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-05-2017, 08:05 AM
BMW's Avatar
BMW BMW is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 9,118 Thanks: 796
Thanked 1,436 Times in 898 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Lancaster, OH USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

I'm thinking about putting a surge protector in the garage.

Thanks for the post.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-05-2017, 09:48 AM
cousi's Avatar
cousi cousi is offline
Banned Spammer
Post: 9,774 Thanks: 1,806
Thanked 1,819 Times in 1,071 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Champlain Valley, VT USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW
I'm thinking about putting a surge protector in the garage.

Thanks for the post.

I have one on the main panel.
I've seen door bells blown off of the wall.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'cousi' for this post:
  #5  
Old 05-05-2017, 10:26 AM
Loggiebone's Avatar
Loggiebone Loggiebone is online now
Go Ugly Early
Post: 11,423 Thanks: 361
Thanked 843 Times in 553 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Wow...bummer. I've been lucky here in Ga since we have a lot of storms so I'm anxious to hear how this works out for you.

Good luck!
__________________
Doug

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-05-2017, 11:42 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW
I'm thinking about putting a surge protector in the garage.

Thanks for the post.

I'd try to get a "whole house" protector.

I had one of my T.V.'s plugged into a surge protector and it still blew it.

Honestly, I don't believe there is a fail safe guaranteed way to keep lightning from taking out items other than completely unplugging the item.

Just too many amps, volts, jules, etc....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2017, 11:57 AM
Loggiebone's Avatar
Loggiebone Loggiebone is online now
Go Ugly Early
Post: 11,423 Thanks: 361
Thanked 843 Times in 553 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Very expensive but house equipped with lightening rods and remotely grounded seem to work the best.
__________________
Doug

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2017, 12:45 PM
McFly's Avatar
McFly McFly is online now
Moderator -Tainting The i-BMW Gene Pool
Post: 10,520 Thanks: 2,908
Thanked 2,925 Times in 1,329 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the Heart of, TX USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
I'm definitely worried that the electronics package took a hit.
Boy, I hope not... keep us posted.
__________________
2007 BMW K12S White Aluminum Metallic a.k.a. "The Mighty Mighty"
2001 BMW R1150GS Mandarin Yellow
2003 Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans (Rosso Race Red)
1974 Moto Guzzi Eldorado 850 California (Police Edition)
2010 KTM 530 EXC Champion Edition a.k.a. "Brutus"
____________________________________

- FZ

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident" -
Arthur Schopenhauer

"Vulgarity is the crutch of an illiterate mutherfucker" - Chris Andries
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-05-2017, 02:16 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by McFly
Boy, I hope not... keep us posted.

Me too.

The bike was out of warranty and all I have on it is liability since it's paid for.

Who'd ever think that their bike would be taken out by a fooking lightning strike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-05-2017, 03:03 PM
Louis's Avatar
Louis Louis is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2009
Post: 16,359 Thanks: 1,263
Thanked 1,667 Times in 1,185 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rossland, BC Canada
Send a message via Skype™ to Louis
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Never thought I'd see a problem like this... man!

I had lightning strikes hit close to the cottage once and it fried the electronics on the stove and the dishwasher. Mucho pesos...
Since then, I turn the breaker off when I leave for extended periods.

Hope nothing happened to the bike.

Best of luck...
__________________
Louis



There's never enough time to do it right... But there's always enough time to do it over!
This is only a good thing when applied to riding... or sex!
Ride West 2008
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?p=191559#post191559
Ride West 2009 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=24292
Dad & daughter Ride 2011 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=35470
André Slabbinck 1957-2014 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=50135
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Louis' for this post:
  #11  
Old 05-05-2017, 03:04 PM
MattB's Avatar
MattB MattB is online now
Certified V4 Nut
Post: 3,682 Thanks: 1,543
Thanked 943 Times in 541 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Carlisle, PA USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
Me too.

The bike was out of warranty and all I have on it is liability since it's paid for.

Who'd ever think that their bike would be taken out by a fooking lightning strike
I do not envy your position, but if the dealer finds out that the electronics are indeed fried, I'd give a call to your home insurance carrier.
__________________
Matt
Street: 2000 Honda VFR @ 39k :: 2002 BMW K1200RS @ 49k ... round 2 - Welcome Back to a Long Lost Friend
Track: 2008 Suzuki GSX-R 750 :: 2008 Honda CBR1000RR
Dirt: 2004 Honda CRF80 ~ son :: 2006 Honda CRF70 ~ daughter #1 :: 1985 Honda ATC70 ~ daughter #2 :: 2006 Honda CRF150 ~ unclaimed :: 2007 Honda CRF450X ~ Dad
IBA #25520 - Iron Butting the Blue Ridge Parkway

If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing could do.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'MattB' for this post:
  #12  
Old 05-05-2017, 07:14 PM
bobby's Avatar
bobby bobby is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 2,103 Thanks: 86
Thanked 625 Times in 420 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: helena, mt us
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Very expensive but house equipped with lightening rods and remotely grounded seem to work the best.
Lightening rods are expensive? Who would have thought. I always assumed it was just an iron rod on the roof connected to an iron rod in the ground.

Ducman - since your bike started right up after the incident I am hopeful that the electric surge did not get into the bike.
__________________
Nothingness is unstable; therefore we are.

Black 2013 k1300s
Mandarin/Titan Silver Metallic 1999 r1100s

Past BMWs
09 k13s, 06 k12s, 05k12s, 86 k11rs, 74 r90s
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-06-2017, 03:14 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB
I do not envy your position, but if the dealer finds out that the electronics are indeed fried, I'd give a call to your home insurance carrier.

Homeowners insurance only covers the home or appliances within it.

Vehicles (including motorcycles) are covered by their own policy. This would also include boats, trailers, etc...

That being said, I only have liability on my bike so any repairs or expenses I will have to pay out of pocket.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'DUCMAN 70' for this post:
  #14  
Old 05-06-2017, 03:23 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
Ducman - since your bike started right up after the incident I am hopeful that the electric surge did not get into the bike.

I'm also hoping.

However, not too optimistic.

I looked at the 7.5 amp that was in the fusible link of the Battery Tender and is scorched!

On a side note, which may be pertinent to this issue, after the strike I went through the house turning on and off various appliances to see what worked and what didn't.

I turned on an old, analog television we had in a spare room. The picture came in for a few seconds but was badly distorted and then it started smoking from the inside and burned up in front of my eyes. Talk about stink!

Can't say I heard or smelled anything like that with the BMW but that doesn't mean it didn't get damaged.

FOOK!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-06-2017, 07:06 AM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is online now
Moderator
Post: 2,216 Thanks: 941
Thanked 1,437 Times in 813 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Because of the massive voltage/amperages the only safe way is to unplug appliances from the outlet. Merely switching them off is insufficient as the current can jump big gaps much like a spark plug does. I think that even though your battery tender is fried your bike probably copped a jolt. Hope I'm wrong though. (I usually am &#128522
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-06-2017, 01:11 PM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

I have had indirect lightning strikes into my house on three occasions here in Tampa. There is no logical explanation on the path it will take once into any part of a structure. My last one was through the TV cable next to the tree roots in the front yard. It went from the tree root to the TV cable, into the house through the cable boxes and two TVs, into the house electrical system and the phone wiring, security system, landscape lighting, irrigation system and garage door opener. It did not damage other equally sensitive items plugged into the outlets. Howdy is right. Isolation is the only guarantee of any safety.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:28 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Well, I dropped the bike off at the shop today but they weren't able to take a look at it due to prior appointments.

The tech said that worst case scenario is going to be a CPU.

$979.00 plus labor for install and diagnostics. So, I'm figuring around $1500 when all is said and done.

Which, isn't cheap but is much better than I was anticipating.

I'll post up more when I have confirmation of diagnosis and cost.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'DUCMAN 70' for this post:
  #18  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:19 PM
R111S's Avatar
R111S R111S is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 285 Thanks: 25
Thanked 118 Times in 76 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cental Illinois, IL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Unfortunately lightning strikes can damage digital electronic devices due to the very low voltage/current they normally operate on. Lightning will fry them quickly because it's very high voltage, thus far exceeding the expected voltage level.

I performed many EMC (Electro-Magnetic Compatibility) Tests in my embedded controller systems career and the most voltage we'd ever apply to an ECM was 80 VDC both polarities for one hour. Most survived. It so happens some of our customers would jump-start using an Arc-Welder so our circuit designs had to take this into account.

A second test involved what we called a "Zap Gun". This device provided a low current zap of up to 15 kV in both polarities. It was meant to simulate low humidity environments where Static Electricity on a human body can generate these damaging levels of voltage. A well designed ECM had what we called "Transorbs" on every connector pin. These were fast acting Clamping Diodes that could momentarily shunt the voltage/current to ground before any of the damaging energy could get further in to the digital electronic devices (ICs).

Finally, we never did testing to simulate a Lighting Strike...out of Scope. Customers would have to not only replace damaged ECMs and Displays but melted Wiring Harnesses as well.

The more insidious aspect of this kind of damage is an ECM/Display could still work but who knows for how long. Its like its been weakened somewhere inside and it may take a little more time to "push it over the edge" due to a lesser surge in the system. There's a thing called "Alternator Load Dump". This is a situation wherein all loads in the system are turned on and then one of the larger loads is turned off, say a set of high current lights. It takes a short amount of time for the Voltage Regulator to respond to the large drop in demand on the Alternator and thus there's a short (milliseconds) leap in Voltage level, say 10 or 15 volts above nominal (12 VDC) but the weakened ECM can't take it and fails internally.

Sorry none of this is good news but thought you might appreciate the info.
__________________
'11 K1300S, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Corbin Seat, Low-Beam HID, Centerstand, Illmburger CF-Rear Hugger, Fenda Extenda, Philips 8-LED-DRL, Pair of 18W LED Flood Lamps, Rear Luggage Rack, Grip-Puppies, R&G Aero Sliders, OEM Hard Bags, Stebel Nautilus Air Horn, Bar-End Throttle Lock, Zumo 660LM, Nelson-Rigg Tankbag, Fuel Filler Neck Vent Holes, Aluminum Kickstand Foot, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers, Cobra SP2 Slip-On Muffler. Color: Red/Black.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'R111S' for this post:
  #19  
Old 05-07-2017, 08:44 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Appreciate the informative response.

Hopefully, IF it is the cpu, a new one will be all that is needed to get the bike fixed.

Fingers crossed that there aren't any other electrical gremlins that pop up.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:14 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

So, I received word today from my shop that they believe it is worse than they originally believed.

They stated that they can't even get the bike's computer to recognize the diagnostic tool or vice versa.

They're still "diagnosing" the issue.

My shop has been in business for a long time but it doesn't appear that the technicians/mechanics have.

Anybody have any recommendations for a shop that might have some more "experienced" techs?

Thanks,


Mike
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:53 AM
jargon's Avatar
jargon jargon is offline
Deplorable and Still Rides
Post: 9,224 Thanks: 6,105
Thanked 2,810 Times in 2,080 Posts
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ, U S A
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
Homeowners insurance only covers the home or appliances within it.

Vehicles (including motorcycles) are covered by their own policy. This would also include boats, trailers, etc...

That being said, I only have liability on my bike so any repairs or expenses I will have to pay out of pocket.
It's still worth 2 phone calls, even if you aren't surprised by the answer.
__________________
John

Don’t confuse me for someone who Gives a Fuck

‘Narcissism is the gift for the unhappy few.’ Unknown


Current Bikes-The Perfect Combination
'15 R12GSAW 'The I-BMW Pussy Bike'
'09 K1300S 'fits me like a glove' with Wilbers
Handy Motorcycle Lift

Past Bikes
'04 K1200RS with Ohlins (traded for GSA)
'11 F800R (traded for GSA)
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'jargon' for this post:
  #22  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:06 AM
Lee's Avatar
Lee Lee is online now
Debbie's Servant
Post: 15,204 Thanks: 3,598
Thanked 3,820 Times in 1,788 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SW, IA USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70

Anybody have any recommendations for a shop that might have some more "experienced" techs?

Thanks,


Mike

Do you go to Grass Roots?
You could try the St Louis dealer.
Like Jargon mentioned I would talk to your home owner insurance agent.
Good Luck
__________________
Lee
2016 R1200RS

Past BMWs
2011 K1300S
03 K1200RS, 91 K75S, 87 K75T, 84 R100RT

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:52 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Do you go to Grass Roots?
You could try the St Louis dealer.
Like Jargon mentioned I would talk to your home owner insurance agent.
Good Luck

Yeah Lee, Grass Roots is who I took it to.

I believe the St. Louis dealer is "Gateway BMW". I might give them a call.

I talked to my insurance agent the day after it happened and he reaffirmed that my homeowner's policy doesn't cover it.

Even showed me the exclusion in my policy.

I'm basically fooked and going to have to pay out of pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:19 PM
rs530's Avatar
rs530 rs530 is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 572 Thanks: 238
Thanked 173 Times in 119 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marengo, IL us
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Mike,
Any progress to report?
__________________
2016 K1300S
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'rs530' for this post:
  #25  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:09 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by rs530
Mike,
Any progress to report?

Yep, and it's not good.

The shop installed the new module ($1160) and is now able to communicate with the bike's electronics.

Unfortunately, it is saying to replace ALL modules.

The shop has a PUMA going and is waiting for BMW to respond with any suggestions for a fix.

Worse case scenario is that I'll have to replace the four remaining modules.

I know one of the remaining four modules lists for $970. I believe it's the engine management module.

The other three are the switchgear module, the ABS module and the TPMS module.

No idea what they will cost.

What a fooking mess!


Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:38 PM
K1DUDE's Avatar
K1DUDE K1DUDE is online now
GS Crash Test Dummy
Post: 3,640 Thanks: 1,118
Thanked 1,505 Times in 683 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pikes Peak, CO USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

I've unplugged my bikes from their battery tenders.
__________________
Jeff

Happiness is a way of travel — not a destination

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:11 AM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
The other three are the switchgear module, the ABS module and the TPMS module.

Might consider adding the security system since the TPMS and the security system are in the same box. BMW has a retro kit to add security that replaces the TPMS as well. I have seen TPMS boxes on ebay if you decide to go that route. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-23-2017, 11:21 AM
bobby's Avatar
bobby bobby is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 2,103 Thanks: 86
Thanked 625 Times in 420 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: helena, mt us
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

That sucks, Ducman.
__________________
Nothingness is unstable; therefore we are.

Black 2013 k1300s
Mandarin/Titan Silver Metallic 1999 r1100s

Past BMWs
09 k13s, 06 k12s, 05k12s, 86 k11rs, 74 r90s
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'bobby' for this post:
  #29  
Old 05-23-2017, 11:33 AM
justjoe's Avatar
justjoe justjoe is offline
Dolt Commander
Post: 11,493 Thanks: 4,186
Thanked 4,419 Times in 2,211 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN US
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Wow, this is a costly repair. Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
__________________
Joe

Keyboard Hero!
A product of "unfortunate upbringing...”
Dolt, One of Five!

Life is good!
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'justjoe' for this post:
  #30  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:32 PM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

There is another lesson to be learned here. If you are going to have welding done, say to modify the side stand, do not allow the welder to do the work without isolating the cycle circuitry. Make sure the welding machine ground is as close to where the welding is to be done as possible. Do not allow any part of the cycle to become a path to ground.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-23-2017, 07:25 PM
rs530's Avatar
rs530 rs530 is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 572 Thanks: 238
Thanked 173 Times in 119 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marengo, IL us
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

The lesson I would learn from this is to pay the extra $200.00 for the full insurance coverage to cover the bike for the year. Especially when you have a bike that has a value of over $10 Grand
Sometimes its just not worth saving penny's when you have to spend dollars.
__________________
2016 K1300S
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:41 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by rs530
The lesson I would learn from this is to pay the extra $200.00 for the full insurance coverage to cover the bike for the year. Especially when you have a bike that has a value of over $10 Grand
Sometimes its just not worth saving penny's when you have to spend dollars.

It'd probably be more than $200 a year but definitely cheaper than what I'm going through.

Good news is that I'm putting full coverage on it tomorrow and shortly thereafter I'm going to have an accident where the bike ends up in a lake (wink wink).

LOL!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:24 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

You said that it started fine after taking it off the burned tender, and then quit working? And the battery was bad?

Using your wifes bike battery it wouldn't go past the BMW logo?
Are you sure that that battery wasn't bad either?

Did you bring the bike to the dealer with the bad battery?


I have a bad battery here in my garage, which will show 13.2 volt when kept on charge overnight and when i turn the key, my display freezes because the voltage drops down below 8 volts. 8 Volts is the cuttoff for for all ECU's (BMSK, ZFE, ABS, Instrument and DWA)

The Display is powered directly by the ignition key/battery.
The DWA/TPS is directly linked to the battery through the ignition switch and only then, when the DWA has confirmed the remote, will it give power to the BMSK and ZFE.
EDIT: Also, there is a backup battery in the DWA box, that keeps the DWA alive even when removing the main battery. Not that this one is busted.

I would tell them to remove the DWA and install this piece right here (its the resistor that fools the bike that there is a DWA). Its installed in all bikes that don't have DWA/TPS, which was an optional equipment in the GS, k12-k13 GT, k12-k13 r/s.

Not that you are spending money on a new BMSK / ZFE / Instrument Cluster for nothing if its the DWA not unlocking.

By the way, the DWA has a setting of how many days it should lock your bike (I think up to 10 days), so if the voltage dropped and the DWA locked itself it will stay locked, possibly even if you have the right remote (that i am not sure about though).

Try the "resistor" solution first and see if it will boot the computers. They will have one somewhere in their shop because its also put into a GS and GT. modell....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image1 (2).JPG (261.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg image2 (1).JPG (250.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg resistor.JPG (301.5 KB, 15 views)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:04 PM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

A similar resistor is required if you retrofit the TPMS equipped K1300S with the TPMS/Alarm module. There may just be a difference in the value of the resistor. Where exactly is the location of that resistor? I have been told by one source that it is under the cluster and by another that it is under the seat hidden among the harnesses.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:18 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
You said that it started fine after taking it off the burned tender, and then quit working? And the battery was bad?

Using your wifes bike battery it wouldn't go past the BMW logo?
Are you sure that that battery wasn't bad either?

Did you bring the bike to the dealer with the bad battery?


I have a bad battery here in my garage, which will show 13.2 volt when kept on charge overnight and when i turn the key, my display freezes because the voltage drops down below 8 volts. 8 Volts is the cuttoff for for all ECU's (BMSK, ZFE, ABS, Instrument and DWA)

The Display is powered directly by the ignition key/battery.
The DWA/TPS is directly linked to the battery through the ignition switch and only then, when the DWA has confirmed the remote, will it give power to the BMSK and ZFE.
EDIT: Also, there is a backup battery in the DWA box, that keeps the DWA alive even when removing the main battery. Not that this one is busted.

I would tell them to remove the DWA and install this piece right here (its the resistor that fools the bike that there is a DWA). Its installed in all bikes that don't have DWA/TPS, which was an optional equipment in the GS, k12-k13 GT, k12-k13 r/s.

Not that you are spending money on a new BMSK / ZFE / Instrument Cluster for nothing if its the DWA not unlocking.

By the way, the DWA has a setting of how many days it should lock your bike (I think up to 10 days), so if the voltage dropped and the DWA locked itself it will stay locked, possibly even if you have the right remote (that i am not sure about though).

Try the "resistor" solution first and see if it will boot the computers. They will have one somewhere in their shop because its also put into a GS and GT. modell....

Thanks for the response.

Yes, unplugged it from the Tender and it started right up. Two days later, battery dead.

I did go ahead and replace the BMW battery with a new YUASA and had the same result.

I would turn on the ignition and only my headlight and the "BMW" as well as odometer would appear on the dash.

The bike had my new YUASA battery installed when I took it to the dealer.

Also, my bike DOES NOT have the alarm system so the resistor you speak of might be an issue.

Do you happen to have a part number?

Question:

Would the resistor being damaged/blown cause the bike's BMS-K module not to work or should I say not be able to communicate with the shops diagnostic tool?

After putting on a new BMS-K module the diagnostic tool still states "replace all modules".

Opinions, suggestions, etc.......


Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:00 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Yes, the resistor replaces DWA/TPS (combined).
Other bikes only have TPS without the DWA part.
My bike has neither TPS or DWA so i have this resistor.

Do you get an EWS warning?

In any case, removing the module and inserting the resistor should give power to the BMSK. (I was 99% sure it wouldn't give power to the ZFE too)....but anyway.

The resistor is plugged into the cable that goes into the TPS box (under the seat, same wiring strand as the round diagnostics plug).

part number is (one of the following):

Tyco Electronics
1452 834-1
BMW 7 668 405 01
1452 835-1

EDIT: So, your shops diagnostics program is able to communicate with the BMSK ABS ZFE and Instrument?
Or does it say that it can't communicate (as if its not connected) and needs replacing?

Because no communication vs communication but can not access is different.....

And what do you mean by the BMW logo comes on? Does it dissapear or stay on?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:38 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83

Do you get an EWS warning?

In any case, removing the module and inserting the resistor should give power to the BMSK. (I was 99% sure it wouldn't give power to the ZFE too)....but anyway.

The resistor is plugged into the cable that goes into the TPS box (under the seat, same wiring strand as the round diagnostics plug).

part number is (one of the following):

Tyco Electronics
1452 834-1
BMW 7 668 405 01
1452 835-1

EDIT: So, your shops diagnostics program is able to communicate with the BMSK ABS ZFE and Instrument?
Or does it say that it can't communicate (as if its not connected) and needs replacing?

Because no communication vs communication but can not access is different.....

And what do you mean by the BMW logo comes on? Does it dissapear or stay on?

NO EMS warning. In fact, no warnings at all on my dash.

Initially, the shop's diagnostic tool could not communicate at all with my bike.

They then installed a new BMS-K unit and now it can communicate but the diagnostic tool displays "replace modules".

It doesn't say which specific module to replace.


As for the BMW logo, when I turn the ignition on, it as well as the odometer appear. No other functions. No idiot lights, no panel lights, no warning symbols, nothing. I honestly can't remember if it stays on or not but I BELIEVE it did.

Unfortunately, the bike is at the shop or I'd take a pic for you.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-27-2017, 02:24 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

So I spoke with the shop about the resistor suggestion and they looked into it.

It didn't help.

I got prices for the ZFE module as well as the COMBI (Instrument Cluster).

ZFE= $938

COMBI= $1303

I have already installed a new BMS-K module at $1151.


So, I have decided to try some used units from E Bay.

I was able to source a ZFE for $150 as well as the instrument cluster for $150.

The shop states that they can reprogram the used units for my bike.

I didn't want to go the "used' route but was concerned that even after I replaced the units the bike still may have issues.

At least going this route I'm only out an additional $300 instead of $2300.

The shop seems to believe that the ABS and TPMS may not be affected since tey aren't as sensitive to electrical issues. I'm definitely hoping.

I did go ahead and source used ABS as well as TPMS units just in case.

ABS= $250 (new $1967)

TPMS= $150 (new $363)


Hope to find out by the end of next week if the used parts worked.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-27-2017, 05:00 PM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

You can delay the replacement of the TPMS. You will have a warning on the dash, but the cycle will run just fine.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'WPV' for this post:
  #40  
Old 05-27-2017, 05:07 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
You can delay the replacement of the TPMS. You will have a warning on the dash, but the cycle will run just fine.

Thanks for the info.

At this rate I'm just hoping to get the bike running again.

TPMS and ABS I can deal with later if necessary.


Fingers crossed.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-27-2017, 07:45 PM
Louis's Avatar
Louis Louis is offline
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2009
Post: 16,359 Thanks: 1,263
Thanked 1,667 Times in 1,185 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rossland, BC Canada
Send a message via Skype™ to Louis
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

We're hoping for the best!
__________________
Louis



There's never enough time to do it right... But there's always enough time to do it over!
This is only a good thing when applied to riding... or sex!
Ride West 2008
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?p=191559#post191559
Ride West 2009 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=24292
Dad & daughter Ride 2011 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=35470
André Slabbinck 1957-2014 http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=50135
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-03-2017, 09:06 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

The shop installed the ZFE today and while it did restore some functions ( the turn signals and horn now work) that is it.

No other functions work.

It was a small step forward but not the complete solution that we hoped it would be.

Their diagnostic tool is still isn't able to reprogram the replacement ZFE and it still shows about 13 codes. Many having to do with engine management.

The tech HOPES that the reason they are still having reprogramming issues is that their diagnostic tool isn't getting complete information due to not having and feedback from the I Cluster (dash).

I hope to receive the new dash by Monday and take it to the shop Tuesday.

The tech also has some more information for BMW corporate and HOPES they will be able to give him some more avenues to explore or reasons as to why the ZRE can't be reprogrammed. He hope to speak with them on Tuesday also.

It is still defaulting to "replace modules".

I have spoken with several other shops and they also believed that by replacing the ZFE the bike would in the least be able to start/run. Even if in limp mode.

Not to be apparently.

Really bummed.
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'DUCMAN 70' for this post:
  #43  
Old 06-03-2017, 09:20 PM
Surfer's Avatar
Surfer Surfer is online now
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 124 Thanks: 147
Thanked 32 Times in 24 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Melbourne Beach, FL U.S.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

My tender has a fuse, wouldn't it fry before the bike?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-03-2017, 09:30 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
My tender has a fuse, wouldn't it fry before the bike?

Oh, it did.

In dramatic fashion.

The best that I can gather is that there was so much energy due to the electric pulse from the lightning that it blew right through all of the precautions of the Tender.

It also blew the fusable link in the harness attached to the batery.

Electricity or should I say lightning is very unpredictable.

No rhyme or reason as to what it destroyed.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-03-2017, 10:34 PM
Surfer's Avatar
Surfer Surfer is online now
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 124 Thanks: 147
Thanked 32 Times in 24 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Melbourne Beach, FL U.S.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Wow! I'm surprised this isn't reported more often. There are so many people out there with collector cars (me included) and motorcycles on battery tenders.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:20 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Man....
I wish you could bring your bike, along with your "tech", into my garage here in Australia. I'd hook it up to my computer and give your tech a free lesson on how things work and what doesn't....

The Instrument cluster has nothing to do with programming the ZFE.
I used a k1300s cluster with my k1200s ZFE/BMSK and had a K1300r ABS hooked up.

No module has anything to do with any of the other modules when it comes to programming/coding. All modules are connected on the CAN BUS network in Parallel. If one unit fails then the others are still connected and working. Imagine how dangerous it would be if your ZFE were to fail and it shuts the bike off while riding.... Not going to happen.

The only thing that needs to be working properly, is the BrownBlackWhite wire and the Red wire (positive) from the Diagnostics plug.

All diagnostics and programming is done through these 2 wires which directly go in to the BMSK. And since they have replaced it and now are able to communicate that shows that the BMSK was fried.

The Computer uses the BMSK like a slave to pass diagnostic/prgramming information to the other modules on the CAN BUS network.

Its possible that the instrument cluster is fried too, but that should not stop them from programming the new ZFE. Besides, the Instrument cluster would disconnect from the network and stay disconnected until the faults are erased or it fixes itself at next startup.

One problem i can see (if the instrument cluster is fried too) and they have replaced the ZFE that there is no "vehicle build information" (Fahrzeug Auftrag or FA). That is stored in the ZFE and Instrument. It tells all other modules in the CAN BUS network what kind of bike this is, what country its build for, what ABS it uses, if it has heated grips, Qickshift, ASC, BC, if it has a BMSK or BMSKP engine controller......and how deep DUCMANS pocket are etc etc....
So if one module has failed, and the other is replaced then the bike doesn't know who it is because the information is not stored anywhere or given to the CAN BUS network (I hope that makes sense).

The FA (vehicle build information) can be written using WinkFP and Toolset32.

Your dealer is using ISTA-D (Diagnostics) and ISTA-P (programming).
Both are a choose and click sort of programm for the dummy mechanic. Nothing wrong with that, but the programm is limited in diagnosing problems. Thats why the answer is always "Replace Modules"

"COMPUTER SAYS: NOOOOOOO" (from Little Britain)

Ask them to run EDIABAS ToolSet32...... Which is way more powerful (and complicated) then ISTA-D or -P.
ToolSet32 lets you diagnose problems down to the single byte, and shows advanced error messages.

(Ok, my local dealer had no clue what ToolSet32 is, maybe you are more lucky)
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Patrique83' for this post:
  #47  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:38 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
Man....
I wish you could bring your bike, along with your "tech", into my garage here in Australia. I'd hook it up to my computer and give your tech a free lesson on how things work and what doesn't....

The Instrument cluster has nothing to do with programming the ZFE.
I used a k1300s cluster with my k1200s ZFE/BMSK and had a K1300r ABS hooked up.

No module has anything to do with any of the other modules when it comes to programming/coding. All modules are connected on the CAN BUS network in Parallel. If one unit fails then the others are still connected and working. Imagine how dangerous it would be if your ZFE were to fail and it shuts the bike off while riding.... Not going to happen.

The only thing that needs to be working properly, is the BrownBlackWhite wire and the Red wire (positive) from the Diagnostics plug.

All diagnostics and programming is done through these 2 wires which directly go in to the BMSK. And since they have replaced it and now are able to communicate that shows that the BMSK was fried.

The Computer uses the BMSK like a slave to pass diagnostic/prgramming information to the other modules on the CAN BUS network.

Its possible that the instrument cluster is fried too, but that should not stop them from programming the new ZFE. Besides, the Instrument cluster would disconnect from the network and stay disconnected until the faults are erased or it fixes itself at next startup.

One problem i can see (if the instrument cluster is fried too) and they have replaced the ZFE that there is no "vehicle build information" (Fahrzeug Auftrag or FA). That is stored in the ZFE and Instrument. It tells all other modules in the CAN BUS network what kind of bike this is, what country its build for, what ABS it uses, if it has heated grips, Qickshift, ASC, BC, if it has a BMSK or BMSKP engine controller......and how deep DUCMANS pocket are etc etc....
So if one module has failed, and the other is replaced then the bike doesn't know who it is because the information is not stored anywhere or given to the CAN BUS network (I hope that makes sense).

The FA (vehicle build information) can be written using WinkFP and Toolset32.

Your dealer is using ISTA-D (Diagnostics) and ISTA-P (programming).
Both are a choose and click sort of programm for the dummy mechanic. Nothing wrong with that, but the programm is limited in diagnosing problems. Thats why the answer is always "Replace Modules"

"COMPUTER SAYS: NOOOOOOO" (from Little Britain)

Ask them to run EDIABAS ToolSet32...... Which is way more powerful (and complicated) then ISTA-D or -P.
ToolSet32 lets you diagnose problems down to the single byte, and shows advanced error messages.

(Ok, my local dealer had no clue what ToolSet32 is, maybe you are more lucky)


Hello Patrique,

Wish I could bring myself as well as my bike to Australia too

Everything that you have posted makes sense and I agree.

In regard to the replacement KMSB, ZFE and I Cluster; even though for MY SPECIFIC BIKE "there is no "vehicle build information" (Fahrzeug Auftrag or FA). That is stored in the ZFE and Instrument. " wouldn't it recognize the bike that the modules came from and allow it to at least start the bike up without reprogramming?

Also, you are correct in this,

"Your dealer is using ISTA-D (Diagnostics) and ISTA-P (programming).
Both are a choose and click sort of programm for the dummy mechanic. Nothing wrong with that, but the programm is limited in diagnosing problems. Thats why the answer is always "Replace Modules"

and I doubt they have a clue about this,

"Ask them to run EDIABAS ToolSet32...... Which is way more powerful (and complicated) then ISTA-D or -P.
ToolSet32 lets you diagnose problems down to the single byte, and shows advanced error messages."

Appreciate all of the info and suggestions.

I'll print your response off and talk to my tech about your suggestions and see what he says.

I'm sure the young tech is trying his best but sometimes there is no replacement for being a "seasoned mechanic".

He even stated that when he speaks with BMW corporate about the issue THEIR tech is only reading from a manual telling them what to try next. NO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.




Thanks.


Mike
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:15 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Well.... I forgot to add this:

When the BMSK (in your case probably the newer version BMSKP) is replaced, the igniton key information has to be written and stored into the BMSK to "unlock" the starter and fuel pump. If he hasn't done this, then you can replace as much as you wan't and the bike will never start.

An indication that this hasn't been done is when the instrument cluster shows "EWS" after turning the key.
EDIT: Alternative, the EWS error would be stored in the BMSKP, if your instrument is fried/offline/not recognized

Every BMW vehicle has to have an FA (vehicle build information).
Without it, nothing or partially nothing will work.

The FA, once it has been created, needs to be written into all modules.
Although, the information about the FA can only be retrieved from the ZFE and Instrument cluster.

In your case, possibly all information out of the ZFE and Instrument has been lost.

Have him hook up the old ZFE, open NCSExpert and try reading the FA. Maybe you can retrieve it from there.... Also try the Instrument cluster.


And..... There is a slight possibility of a problem on your dealers end when using ISTA-D and ISTA-P. (I have that problem using these 2)
It could be that their computer does not pick up the ignition voltage in ISTA which would let him run ISTA and play around with a few items, but when it comes to access and control......Computer says: Nooooo
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Patrique83' for this post:
  #49  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:24 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

The FA also controls into what bike and for what purpose the BMSK (BMSKP) is used.

Because the newer version BMSKP can also be put into a K1200s/r/gt....which means that the fueling and ignition would be different.

Same goes for the ABS. My newly installed ABS came from a K1300r, but its the same module that would go into a 1200gs enduro.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:28 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Here is my FA for a K1200s

K40_#0504&0000 (identifies the Build year April 2005)
%0969 (unknown)
*0581 (K40 1200s)
$304 (Australian placard)
$321 (Left Hand Headlight)
$334 (Noise Placard Australia)
$372 (Instrument Kombi KM/H police version) I did that so the speedo is always accurate
$381 (Instruction Booklet English)
$391 (Overseas Dealership)
$401 (ABS Partial Integral)
$412 (Yellow Front indicators)
$416 (ESA)
$519 (Heated Grips)
$630 (I-ABS 2 System)
$650 (ASC)
$734 (Australian Version)
-RL1B (Front parking light removed, and it shows no more error)
+CTBS (Conti Teves ABS system, because of the different numbers of slots in the ABS sensor Ring)

There is no line for BMSK. Because the BMSK was only made for 1200cc bikes.

If i need to install a BMSKP i have to add +BMKP to let the other modules know where the signal is comeing from
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:51 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
Well.... I forgot to add this:

When the BMSK (in your case probably the newer version BMSKP) is replaced, the igniton key information has to be written and stored into the BMSK to "unlock" the starter and fuel pump. If he hasn't done this, then you can replace as much as you wan't and the bike will never start.

An indication that this hasn't been done is when the instrument cluster shows "EWS" after turning the key.
EDIT: Alternative, the EWS error would be stored in the BMSKP, if your instrument is fried/offline/not recognized

Every BMW vehicle has to have an FA (vehicle build information).
Without it, nothing or partially nothing will work.

The FA, once it has been created, needs to be written into all modules.
Although, the information about the FA can only be retrieved from the ZFE and Instrument cluster.

In your case, possibly all information out of the ZFE and Instrument has been lost.

Have him hook up the old ZFE, open NCSExpert and try reading the FA. Maybe you can retrieve it from there.... Also try the Instrument cluster.


And..... There is a slight possibility of a problem on your dealers end when using ISTA-D and ISTA-P. (I have that problem using these 2)
It could be that their computer does not pick up the ignition voltage in ISTA which would let him run ISTA and play around with a few items, but when it comes to access and control......Computer says: Nooooo

Hmmm, my instrument cluster doesn't display "EMS".

It only shows the BMW logo as well as the odometer rearing. I BELIEVE it displays the clock also.

However, we believe the instrument cluster was also fried with the other modules.

I'll be replacing the instrument cluster with a "used" unit next week.

That being said, would a used unit that is in working order display EMS as well as any other functions if it didn't have the "vehicle build information"?

Would it also need to be reprogrammed prior to displaying any info?

I'm pretty sure he tested the EMS function with the ETSA and it did show that it was working. However, Ii presume it just meant that it worked but not necessarily that it was in "locked" or "unlocked " mode.

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:03 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Set you a PM Patrique.


Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-04-2017, 05:14 PM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 889 Thanks: 176
Thanked 224 Times in 162 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Did you or can you test the ring antenna on the ignition switch?
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:10 PM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
Did you or can you test the ring antenna on the ignition switch?

Beats me.

How does one do it and what is it's function?

I don't exactly know what the tech has or hasn't done.

He said that he tested all of the wires in the harness and they are good to go.

Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-04-2017, 09:25 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

There is a difference being coded and programmed.
When you code the display, you turn on and off certain display functions.
For example, TPS (Tire Pressure). If you have tire pressure sensors, but the display is set to "nicht_aktiv" (not_active)
then the tire pressure won't be displayed. You could also turn your Tank display off if you feel like it.
The "code" is just a set of features, that are either ON or OFF.......

Programming is different, and there isn't anything that can be changed, unless you use WinkFP or ToolSet32 and seed a new FA into the module.

It consists of:
A. The software that runs the display internally
and
B. The vehicle build information among other things.



The ring antenna reads the key chip and sends the data to your BMSKP where its compared with the data stored.

If the BMSKP identifies the key to be correct, it will "unlock" the engine controller and starter relay.

If your tech turns the ignition key, and the engine won't crank over then there is another sign that the key hasn't been configured to the bike.

The display would/should say "EWS"......again, in your case, the display might be fried, so it doesn't show "EWS"

Even if all modules are dead/unplugged or not configured via the FA the engine would crank/start.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:16 AM
R111S's Avatar
R111S R111S is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 285 Thanks: 25
Thanked 118 Times in 76 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cental Illinois, IL USA
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCMAN 70
He said that he tested all of the wires in the harness and they are good to go.

So this statement can be taken several ways:

1. Was it simply an end-to-end continuity test? This is good but not by any means thorough.

2. Did the Tech draw up a matrix chart to check every individual wire if it is shorted to any of all the other wires? Melted insulation on adjacent wires would allow a short between wires to happen.

3. Was a thorough check for melting or burn marks on all wires made?

4. Was every connector unmated and inspected, using a strong light, for melted/burnt terminal pins/sockets?

It's a very time consuming thing to test a wire harness and most people are loathe to do it properly.
__________________
'11 K1300S, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Corbin Seat, Low-Beam HID, Centerstand, Illmburger CF-Rear Hugger, Fenda Extenda, Philips 8-LED-DRL, Pair of 18W LED Flood Lamps, Rear Luggage Rack, Grip-Puppies, R&G Aero Sliders, OEM Hard Bags, Stebel Nautilus Air Horn, Bar-End Throttle Lock, Zumo 660LM, Nelson-Rigg Tankbag, Fuel Filler Neck Vent Holes, Aluminum Kickstand Foot, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers, Cobra SP2 Slip-On Muffler. Color: Red/Black.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:36 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
So this statement can be taken several ways:

1. Was it simply an end-to-end continuity test? This is good but not by any means thorough.

2. Did the Tech draw up a matrix chart to check every individual wire if it is shorted to any of all the other wires? Melted insulation on adjacent wires would allow a short between wires to happen.

3. Was a thorough check for melting or burn marks on all wires made?

4. Was every connector unmated and inspected, using a strong light, for melted/burnt terminal pins/sockets?

It's a very time consuming thing to test a wire harness and most people are loathe to do it properly.

I presume it was the end to end continuity test.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:55 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
Even if all modules are dead/unplugged or not configured via the FA the engine would crank/start.

So, you're saying that the bike SHOULD START even if the KMS-B, ZME, Cluster, etc....are fried?

With my old modules with the correct FA my bike still wouldn't start.

I'm a bit confused with this post


Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:51 AM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 582 Thanks: 59
Thanked 297 Times in 190 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

No thats not what i meant.

The engine doesn't need the ZFE ABS or INSTRUMENT Cluster to run.

Only the BMSKP and a functioning Ring Antenna + key.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:40 AM
DUCMAN 70's Avatar
DUCMAN 70 DUCMAN 70 is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 667 Thanks: 93
Thanked 149 Times in 98 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Herrin, IL U.S.A.
Re: Battery Tender and Lightning Strike Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
No thats not what i meant.

The engine doesn't need the ZFE ABS or INSTRUMENT Cluster to run.

Only the BMSKP and a functioning Ring Antenna + key.

10-4.

Apologies. I didn't mean to include the BMS-K in my previous post.

So as long as my new BMS-K is programmed for my bike with the corresponding FA my bike should start and run?

Also, I shouldn't have any issues with my key since there is merely a "chip" in it to verify that it is for my specific bike?

As for the "ring antenna", I presume that if it were damaged then my bike would not function at all due to it not being able to verify/communicate with my key?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery tender rudy "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A 19 05-20-2014 07:48 PM
Battery Tender Plus + $5 adaptor ? Kevin C "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 5 01-12-2007 03:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:01 AM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 1.30097 seconds with 16 queries