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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:32 PM
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Has anyone done this?

Any codes? Gear indicator issues? Bren Tuning and BMW reported that the only problem would be if they needed to download updates it would erase the map, but as long as you have the tuner with the map on it, they would just download it again for you. Since our bikes are out of production, no updates to worry about. About to pull the trigger.



https://brentuningmoto.com/product/bmw-k1300-2005-bmsk/
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2018, 05:48 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

My 2010 with 36,000 miles on it runs as smooth as silk and hasn't stalled in probably seven years. I wouldn't mess with it!
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:28 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is offline
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Iím getting one soon. I fitted a full Akrapovic race system last fall. So it needs some tuning to make it behave. But all the reports Iíve read about the BrenTune even on totally stock bikes is ďwhy didnít I do this sooner?Ē It smooths our the dueling, gives some more power and removed both the 1-3 gear throttle restrictions and the top end, top gear restrictions. I havenít heard anyone report that they regret the BrenTune.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:29 AM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstumpf750
Iím getting one soon. I fitted a full Akrapovic race system last fall. So it needs some tuning to make it behave. But all the reports Iíve read about the BrenTune even on totally stock bikes is ďwhy didnít I do this sooner?Ē It smooths our the dueling, gives some more power and removed both the 1-3 gear throttle restrictions and the top end, top gear restrictions. I havenít heard anyone report that they regret the BrenTune.
Dude, do me a favor and report back when you do. I would love to hear a first hand report. My only concern would be any warning lights or electronics not working properly (gear shift indicator etc.). Thanks.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:35 AM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is offline
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Those are issues with piggyback devices like Bazzaz and power commander. The shift indicator ends up stuck in 4th due to the method they use, which is just an inline resistor to trick the ECU. BrenTune actually changes the settings in the ECU so the gear indicator is not affected.
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  #6  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:48 AM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

I'd be curious to know if you've also looked at a piggy back tuner like the PCV and why you'd pick the Bren Tune over that? The PCV will solve all the fueling interests you have but not the removal of any restrictions. Then again, those restrictions like the gear 1 - 3 control, throttle pre-control, etc are there for a reason. It's my understanding that those features make the intervention of the traction control much smoother and more predictable. I guess if I was looking for better lap times I wouldn't care so much about that but for the road, just personally, I don't see the value in removing those traction related features.

Do you think you'll get a before and after dyno pull on it? The other thing I've heard about Bren is that while they offer more top end, the total area under the curve is not improved. That may be bike or tune dependent but I can offer one anecdote that soured me on Bren. I took my bone stock S1000RR to a Bob's BMW dyno day. The parking lot was full of S1000RRs with all manner of mods and tunes. They were all getting numbers at the rear wheel between high 160s to high 170's. My bike recorded 177.1 HP and had everyone there talking about the bad gas they must have had or some such other lame excuse. In fact, one guy with a Bren Tune accused me of running race gas so my friend that works at Bob's that also has a bone stock bike put his on the dyno. 177.4. The guy with the Bren Tune, full exhaust - all the bolt on mods - put up a whopping 168 number.

Just saying....
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:52 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
I'd be curious to know if you've also looked at a piggy back tuner like the PCV and why you'd pick the Bren Tune over that? The PCV will solve all the fueling interests you have but not the removal of any restrictions. Then again, those restrictions like the gear 1 - 3 control, throttle pre-control, etc are there for a reason. It's my understanding that those features make the intervention of the traction control much smoother and more predictable. I guess if I was looking for better lap times I wouldn't care so much about that but for the road, just personally, I don't see the value in removing those traction related features.

Do you think you'll get a before and after dyno pull on it? The other thing I've heard about Bren is that while they offer more top end, the total area under the curve is not improved. That may be bike or tune dependent but I can offer one anecdote that soured me on Bren. I took my bone stock S1000RR to a Bob's BMW dyno day. The parking lot was full of S1000RRs with all manner of mods and tunes. They were all getting numbers at the rear wheel between high 160s to high 170's. My bike recorded 177.1 HP and had everyone there talking about the bad gas they must have had or some such other lame excuse. In fact, one guy with a Bren Tune accused me of running race gas so my friend that works at Bob's that also has a bone stock bike put his on the dyno. 177.4. The guy with the Bren Tune, full exhaust - all the bolt on mods - put up a whopping 168 number.

Just saying....
It appears that piggy back systems don't allow the gear the shift indicator to function. I also heard it can trigger different warning lamps. Not a big fan of that. I'm pretty happy with the bike stock. I just wondered if there would be a big difference in throttle input/smoothness if I remapped the bike and removed the lean fuel program BMW installs with their primary goal for fuel conservation. I would rather leave it alone than influence a wack a mole situation.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:36 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
the total area under the curve is not improved.

At last someone has said it. Thank you Wes. This is the true measure of drive-ability of a vehicle. So few understand the area under the curve, I have avoided mentioning it in other discussions.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:38 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
It appears that piggy back systems don't allow the gear the shift indicator to function. I also heard it can trigger different warning lamps. Not a big fan of that. I'm pretty happy with the bike stock. I just wondered if there would be a big difference in throttle input/smoothness if I remapped the bike and removed the lean fuel program BMW installs with their primary goal for fuel conservation. I would rather leave it alone than influence a wack a mole situation.

Since you're not chasing a number and are just looking for an all around better bike, maybe the Bren will work for you. If they have a tune, they should have back to back dyno pulls to show you what their tune does to your bike's power delivery.

There's a lot of guys over on the S1000RR forums chasing big HP numbers and taking Bren's word for it. Yeah, if they remove the torque limit in the first three gears it's going to seem stronger at the cost of potentially wonky interactions of your traction control. BMW put that in there for a reason and it wasn't the EPA mandating it. And a big HP number can sometimes be achieved by just raising the rev limiter several hundred RPM. I don't know many people that would enjoy paying a lot of money for that - well, at least those not racing.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:46 AM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Hmmmmmm.....


http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bm...sh-review.html
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:33 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is offline
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Comparing the BrenTune on the S1000RR and the K1300S is apples to oranges. The S1000RR has good fueling, etc from the factory and requires the ECU be shipped the be hacked and then tuned. The K1300S has bad fueling and other issues from the factory and you can load tunes with a handheld device. So it is easy to compare stock to modified tunes as you can change them yourself and test back to back.
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2018, 07:43 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
Any codes? Gear indicator issues? Bren Tuning and BMW reported that the only problem would be if they needed to download updates it would erase the map, but as long as you have the tuner with the map on it, they would just download it again for you. Since our bikes are out of production, no updates to worry about. About to pull the trigger.



https://brentuningmoto.com/product/bmw-k1300-2005-bmsk/

I had a k1300s and had a power commander that worked fine but is a pain to install and adds a
Lot of potential problems wire problems, althoughI never had any. Ran it with the map they supplied.
A couple years later I heard of REXER and went with their reflash and module, worked great. A employee of mine bought the 1300S from the dealer where I traded in on my S1000XR and loves it.
I have swapped the maps a couple times with no problem. Everything works.
Same price I believe. Look them up. A friend had a s1000RR with a Bren Tuning flash and was happy, for 44 thousand miles.
Harry
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:05 PM
BrenTuning BrenTuning is offline
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
Any codes? Gear indicator issues? Bren Tuning and BMW reported that the only problem would be if they needed to download updates it would erase the map, but as long as you have the tuner with the map on it, they would just download it again for you. Since our bikes are out of production, no updates to worry about. About to pull the trigger.



https://brentuningmoto.com/product/bmw-k1300-2005-bmsk/

Yes on any of the BMSX mail in ECU bikes, if the bike goes to the dealer, I have seen them update and wipe portions of the flash when. I can see this when I get the ECU back and the portions I left modified are back to stock. Some stuff will stay tuned some won't it's odd.

If the bike is a BMSK ECU and can use our handheld, you can just put back to the original file at any point and bring to the dealer without worry.

In terms of your initial question, no problem with gear indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
I'd be curious to know if you've also looked at a piggy back tuner like the PCV and why you'd pick the Bren Tune over that? The PCV will solve all the fueling interests you have but not the removal of any restrictions. Then again, those restrictions like the gear 1 - 3 control, throttle pre-control, etc are there for a reason. It's my understanding that those features make the intervention of the traction control much smoother and more predictable. I guess if I was looking for better lap times I wouldn't care so much about that but for the road, just personally, I don't see the value in removing those traction related features.

Do you think you'll get a before and after dyno pull on it? The other thing I've heard about Bren is that while they offer more top end, the total area under the curve is not improved. That may be bike or tune dependent but I can offer one anecdote that soured me on Bren. I took my bone stock S1000RR to a Bob's BMW dyno day. The parking lot was full of S1000RRs with all manner of mods and tunes. They were all getting numbers at the rear wheel between high 160s to high 170's. My bike recorded 177.1 HP and had everyone there talking about the bad gas they must have had or some such other lame excuse. In fact, one guy with a Bren Tune accused me of running race gas so my friend that works at Bob's that also has a bone stock bike put his on the dyno. 177.4. The guy with the Bren Tune, full exhaust - all the bolt on mods - put up a whopping 168 number.

Just saying....

It's funny because I don't see any of the ridability fixes that our customers want, being resolved with a PC5/Bazazz unit, autotune or not. I have people who have tried literally everything booster plugs, bazazz, PC5, autotune, AF-XIED etc etc etc. They never fix the ridability problems like our flash does. I have guys who call me and say "Chris, if this doesn't work I'm selling the bike, I love the bike but I can't deal with the low speed quirks". I'm not making this stuff up, this is fairly common call that I get. They call me a week later after flashing the bike saying they are so happy, best thing they ever did, favorite mod and so on, just like you read on these forums.

We have full access to the ECU which no other tuners have or spend time to develop in this market, what this means is that those throttle tables that a PC5 doesn't touch, we do. They are simply controlling fuel, that is just some of the equation of what actually fixes and makes these bikes better. Full ECU throttle control and limiter removal is what's needed. We started tuning these because my dad had one and hated how it rode. Being similar to the S1000RR ECU that we knew so well, we spent a ton of time working out different ideas and theories, finally figuring out what worked and what didn't. Ride a PC5 bike and then one that we tuned, it is night and day different.

In terms of your friend and his 168WHP, that's great and all but how many runs were done? What were the conditions? Were the adaptations reset? I have a very specific method to tuning these bikes to get proper data out of them. I have a dyno how-to I can share with your friend if he wants help getting proper data and information for me to help him. Otherwise this is just another "a friend of a friend" story to me. You think removing restrictions, torque limiters, calculators, modifying ignition, fueling etc etc will net a 12HP loss over a stock bike? I'm also assuming the bike has an exhaust at a minimum which is good for atleast a few HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
Since you're not chasing a number and are just looking for an all around better bike, maybe the Bren will work for you. If they have a tune, they should have back to back dyno pulls to show you what their tune does to your bike's power delivery.

There's a lot of guys over on the S1000RR forums chasing big HP numbers and taking Bren's word for it. Yeah, if they remove the torque limit in the first three gears it's going to seem stronger at the cost of potentially wonky interactions of your traction control. BMW put that in there for a reason and it wasn't the EPA mandating it. And a big HP number can sometimes be achieved by just raising the rev limiter several hundred RPM. I don't know many people that would enjoy paying a lot of money for that - well, at least those not racing.

Your an OEM guy, that's cool man. People have been tuning cars and bikes for years beyond factory limits. It's not for everyone I get that, but it does work and works well. Why do you think all of the fastest bikes are tuned by us? Coincidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer

Check the page 3 rebuttal, working with the customer to fix any of his concerns and issues, no charge to him. Should I link a bunch of other successful people who have had 0 issues, set lap records, 1/4 mile records, 1/2 mile records, 1 mile records? Beat 270WHP H2's, had a great experience? You're taking one post and parading it as the gospel without hearing the other side or remedies.

Chris
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2018, 09:15 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Chris with all due respect, it was never my intention of, "taking one post and parading it as the gospel without hearing the other side or remedies." That's why I started the post with "Hmmmmmm." Chill out. I am the guy that called your shop (don't remember who I spoke to) and we spoke about the X and K ECU. If it's a K I keep it.

I just want to make an informed decision. Believe me, I am smart enough to not believe everything I read on the internet. You have a great reputation for tuning bikes, so be proud of that. When it finally stops raining here, I'll drive up to BMW and determine what ECU I have and call you back.

And if it's okay with you after the tune, I'll provide my fair assessment on this forum and everyone can ponder if they are up to following my advice. If you don't feel comfortable with me giving a review, regardless of how satisfied or dissatisfied I am about the tune, I will honor your wishes and remain quiet. Fair enough?

I do have one last question. Does removing the limiters affect the ABS and/or the traction control?
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2018, 12:29 PM
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Re: Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer
Chris with all due respect, it was never my intention of, "taking one post and parading it as the gospel without hearing the other side or remedies." That's why I started the post with "Hmmmmmm." Chill out. I am the guy that called your shop (don't remember who I spoke to) and we spoke about the X and K ECU. If it's a K I keep it.

I just want to make an informed decision. Believe me, I am smart enough to not believe everything I read on the internet. You have a great reputation for tuning bikes, so be proud of that. When it finally stops raining here, I'll drive up to BMW and determine what ECU I have and call you back.

And if it's okay with you after the tune, I'll provide my fair assessment on this forum and everyone can ponder if they are up to following my advice. If you don't feel comfortable with me giving a review, regardless of how satisfied or dissatisfied I am about the tune, I will honor your wishes and remain quiet. Fair enough?

I do have one last question. Does removing the limiters affect the ABS and/or the traction control?

I have no problem with you providing a review, that's great! The problem I have is when a post is shared with nothing other than hmmm, it seems like drama stirring. I'm sorry if I took it wrong. There are literally dozens of threads with the opposite result which can be found by searching, when the only item posted is negative and no other context, it is kind of crappy.

Hope to do business in the future.

Thanks,

Chris
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