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"K13GT" Technical Q&A K1300GT- Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:28 PM
DMcK DMcK is offline
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What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

So, sitting in neutral at a stop light I can easily hear a noise from the clutch and/or transmission. It sounds a bit like a "rushing" noise. Not a rattle, or a rubbing, or a squeak etc. It sounds to me like a bearing that's not smooth(?)

Initially, I thought it was the sound of the gearbox input shaft spinning, because it goes away when I pull in the clutch lever. Thinking about it, though, the input shaft must still be spinning with the clutch lever pulled in, because I get the usual "wet-clutch" clunk when I shift into first. (I expect there's enough drag to easily spin the input shaft in neutral.)

So, what could make a noise in neutral, and go quiet with the clutch lever pulled? The drawings I've found, so far, of the clutch are a bit hard to figure out...

Doug
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2017, 02:34 PM
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R111S R111S is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Well, I'll give it a guess. Maybe it's the fact that Motor Oil (thinner than Gear Oil) is used in the Transmission? I'm theorizing 80w-90 Gear Oil dampens vibration better and thus less Drivetrain noise?
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2017, 04:19 PM
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Basket springs is my thought. Clutch lever back you don't hear them, clutch lever released you hear them doing their thing.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:45 PM
DMcK DMcK is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Hmm. Interesting. It certainly comes and goes with the clutch lever.
It doesn't really sound like a noise I'd imagine springs making if they are rattling around with some free play, but maybe that's it.

When do the needle bearings that I see in the drawings have to spin?

Doug
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:54 AM
Dirk C Dirk C is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Hi DMcK i had the same noise on my 13s and when i changed the clutch basket and lamilar pack i thought it would be a good idea to change the needle bearing on the gearbox input shaft ..the one in the middle between the gearbox and the clutch basket.So did that and no more noise in neutral,but the noise will come back as the bearing starts to wear.

Best Regards.
Dirk.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:47 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Hi Dirk,
It does sound, to me, more like a bearing but I know sounds can be sometimes hard to identify. When you changed your basket were the springs different, or do you think they had similar clearance to shake around in?
I'm wondering if we can be fairly sure it was the bearing and not the springs.

I don't think I *have* to do anything about it right now, but it's ugly having a worn bearing down there and if that's what it is I might be inclined to deal with it over winter.

Doug
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:03 AM
Dirk C Dirk C is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Hi DMcK it has been two years since i worked on my k13 so it's a bit hard to remember,I can remember that the crank drives the clutch basket directly via gears so the basket is always turning. I can remember, that the springs was a loose fit in the basket the same as the old one but i must say that the new basket and lamilar pack was better balanced and gave 50% less vibration.
Best of luck.
Dirk.
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:26 AM
Honolulu Honolulu is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Best of luck indeed. My 2010 K13GT does the same thing, has 27,000 miles. Supposedly the PO put in a Barnett clutch, but no word if he changed a bearing while in there. t does sound like a "rolling, rattling" noise, that goes away with the clutch in.

If the bearing, does it constitute a problem that must be addressed? My gut feeling is No. Others feel free to add their 2 cents.

Beech, above, and whose thoughts I respect, suggests clutch basket springs. Given the substantial "CLUNK" shifting from neutral to first, I think there's torque being transferred through the clutch pack and maybe the springs aren't all that slack. Happy to hear someone with a better understanding of the clutch and trans pipe up. All my experience with clutches (about 3 dozen Bimmers and two 1985 K100RS) has been with dry discs.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:38 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Thanks Dirk, hi Honolulu,
I should have said that mine has 15k miles. Describing it as a "rolling" sound seems to fit. I can almost feel it in the bars.

I am inclined to address it, largely because I don't want a bearing to break down completely sometime (if that's what it is) and cause expensive damage.

I still don't feel I understand why the noise goes away when the clutch lever is pulled in, though. If it's springs shaking around (doesn't sound like that), why do they stop doing that when the clutch is disengaged? The basket is still spinning and, indeed, some torque is still being passed by the clutch which I would expect to slightly load the springs (but maybe not enough to stop shaking?).
I think this bearing is what lets the clutch basket spin on the gearbox input shaft (right?), and so when the clutch is engaged the basket and gearbox input shaft are rotating as a unit. This bearing shouldn't be "working", right. When the clutch is disengaged the basket is spinning on a stationary gearbox input shaft if the bike's in gear. I would expect the noise to be worst under these circumstances, which is not the case.

Is this noise simply the noise of the transmission spinning out of gear, with all these noisy spur gears meshing? In neutral, the gears are all meshing, but the When the clutch is disengaged, maybe it spins much more slowly? When the transmission is in gear and the clutch disengaged it doesn't spin at all. Also no noise. When the transmission is spinning, not in neutral, I'd expect to hear the noise but I'm moving so maybe don't notice it?

Hmm. I'm struggling to see how this can be the clutch, which is different from Dirk's experience...
Doug
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:05 PM
Dusty952 Dusty952 is online now
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

The clutch basket hangs off the end of a shaft when the clutch is engaged. It can move or flop around as much as the bearing will let it. When you pull the clutch lever the slave cylinder pushes on the clutch rod and supports the clutch so the basket does not flop around so much . Actuating the clutch also reduces the rotating mass because only half the plate are spinning. Hope this helps

Dusty
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:55 PM
DMcK DMcK is offline
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Re: What causes this particular clutch/transmission noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty952
The clutch basket hangs off the end of a shaft when the clutch is engaged. It can move or flop around as much as the bearing will let it. When you pull the clutch lever the slave cylinder pushes on the clutch rod and supports the clutch so the basket does not flop around so much . Actuating the clutch also reduces the rotating mass because only half the plate are spinning. Hope this helps

Dusty

Thx. Ok, I can see that the play in that bearing could allow the basket to flop around when the clutch is disengaged, but once it's engaged don't the springs clamp everything together?

The clamped-together assembly would be out of balance if the basket has flopped to one side with a sloppy bearing, right? That, alone, seems like a good enough reason to take a look at that bearing... I'm unclear if that's one of the main causes of vibration on these bikes but it seems like it must be part of it.

Bottom line, I guess, is that Dirk made this go away by replacing the clutch and the needle bearings. I'm inclined to wait until winter and dive in there to take a look at the needle bearings. They're not particularly expensive so I could replace them and inspect the clutch at the same time. Possibly it's a "make-work" but if there's a chance I can make the bike smoother by controlling the clutch basket's position better, it could be worth it.
Doug
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