I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1200 Series Motorcycles > K1200RS/GT > "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:10 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Hi All,

My 50k mileage '97 needs investigating for intermittent fuel starvation, well that's what it seems like. Whilst riding it dies on all 4 cylinders for a few seconds with no ignition warning lights lit and comes back with some spluttering after prayers and twists of the throttle. I've ruled out the ignition switch but it could be something more subtle like the TPS. The bike sits outside covered over during Winter and I'll hit all the usual connectors including ECU and fuel pump with switch cleaner.

The tank fuel filter hasn't been replaced for a while and the fuel pump and filter sock might need attention. Getting myself ready to lift the tank I already knew the fuel pumps were expensive, whether you go to BMW or Euromotors.

I saw this fuel pump on Fleabay, it's not a recommend yet because I haven't tried it, but it has quite a high magnet weight and I thought it was worth taking a chance for the price:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272899578504
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Chinese-K1200RS-fuel-fump.jpg (114.5 KB, 10 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:37 AM
paulmogs paulmogs is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 2,243 Thanks: 1,535
Thanked 2,233 Times in 1,078 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Adapted one of the following onto an R11RS. Works fine.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-VDO-...IAAOSw0e9UtJKr
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-18-2018, 07:11 AM
mcchoc's Avatar
mcchoc mcchoc is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 729 Thanks: 215
Thanked 144 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire UK, England
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Vox, If anyone can make this work, it's you

I'd just check first that it doesn't contain a trained Chinese hampster in scuba gear
__________________
The Warthog
2014 K1300S MS (until it's time for that invalid scooter)
1997 K1200RS (old faithful)
History:
Yamaha RD250 (x2)
Yamaha XS750
Kawasaki Z1000 (x3)
Honda Blackbird
Yamaha FJ1200 (x2)
BMW K1200S
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:23 AM
Lowndes Lowndes is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 166 Thanks: 25
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roswell, GA United State
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Vox,

$55.07 USD is what I see. Plus 2-5 weeks delivery. Compares nicely to $200+ for others. And, it's nice and shiny!!

Paulmogs's is $31.66 USD, except "Doesn't post to United States | See details".
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:45 PM
Clambucket's Avatar
Clambucket Clambucket is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 53 Thanks: 32
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Leelanau, MI United state
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Vox, very sorry to hear of your mechanical misfortune. But in the quest of trying to figure out my 98' "dying" issue, I have to ask; would your bike cut out completely? Mine was just like you hit the kill switch. Push the starter button,cranks fine, but no fire. The longer it sits, it will try to start; run on one cylinder, pop and stumble and backfire. Give it several 4-8 hrs. Hit the starter, fires up and idles fine with not even a stumble or misfire! The last two times it cut out, it was under acceleration. Also, both times the bikes operating temp. was at the midway mark.
I'm still trying to determine, fuel, temperature or electrical??? Hang in there! I'm rooting for ya!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2018, 07:38 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

It feels just like fuel starvation: I first noticed it on throttle roll offs. After riding the bike so many years I know how that should feel which is a drop to around 800rpm then a rise to 950-1k normal spec.It felt like I was turning the fuel tap off and at a stop it would be hit and miss if the motor came back up to normal idle or die. Then It started happening intermittently when riding. All 4 cylinders die at once and since the ignition warning isn't on, I excluded the ignition switch, cutoff or battery faults. When the motor dies and the bike decelerates I'm twisting the throttle like mad until it hiccups then carries on normally. Opening the throttle rail seems to temporarily clear the die back. It shouldn't be jets or individual injectors, because all cylinders die together which is why I'm looking at fuel delivery.

I'm starting with the tank innards - electrics, tank vents and ECU connector. Since the (shiny) Chinese pump and Mahle fuel filter were a cheap option, I thought I would do the lot and look elsewhere if I still get the problem. I'll let you know if I find anything obviously wrong. I will put my fuel rail pressure gauge on the new pump to make sure it's delivering the spec. pressure, although the important spec. for the KRS fuel pump is its ability to maintain the rail pressure and volume throughput at max power.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-19-2018, 09:41 AM
BAK04GT BAK04GT is offline
*Disclaimer below
Post: 5,959 Thanks: 134
Thanked 512 Times in 428 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: At the lake - Meredith N.H., U.S.A.
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Did you check fuel tank venting? open the cap and ride it, see if that solves the issue.
__________________
"Just shut the fuck up and let ME tell you what I need"
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'BAK04GT' for this post:
  #8  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:50 PM
Lowndes Lowndes is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 166 Thanks: 25
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roswell, GA United State
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Vox,

Couple of thoughts and questions for you;

Stalling at throttle closing would be a slight, momentary pressure surge in the system. A restricted flow from a partially collapsed tubing or loaded-up fuel filter would be an OK low to middle range throttle but starvation at higher flow, correct?? I could envision a sudden pressure pulse pushing a piece of the rubber lining into the flow then returning to normal position when pressure is reduced or back to normal.

There is a filter screen in the Pressure Reducing Valve at the end of the injector rail. Someone had pics of this with a partially blocked screen. Its always overlooked/forgotten but easy enough to check by pulling the retainer clip. See pics below.

What about the quick connects?? If one of those was not behaving properly....??

Would the throttle positioning sensor not being correctly adjusted have anything to do with this?? Seems to me there was something about this with R1100's maybe, same symptoms??

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i-...1-h588-no?.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/00...4-h588-no?.jpg
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Lowndes' for this post:
  #9  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:24 PM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,707 Thanks: 1,683
Thanked 1,599 Times in 1,223 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Just sticking to pumps, I ran across this Japanese brand that looks good.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-KEMSO-4...hZPh~s&vxp=mtr
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Honda sport or better yet a Monkey
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Beech' for this post:
  #10  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:46 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Thanks, all these things are on my check list.

My suspected fuel starvation is anywhere on throttle at any time and it's there shutting down to idle when the fuel flow rate would be least. On a 1/2 hour town riding it happens about 4-5 times. But if I leave it it might happen 100%!

I didn't know about the filter screen in the pressure regulator & never been there, but I do know about the tank pump filter sock and a new one of those came with the Chinese pump. I'll check the regulator screen when the plastics are off to remove the tank. Hey-Ho, then I'll have to get the fuel pump back without leaks from the flange gasket, but been I've been there before and nailed that. Maybe I might consider replacing the inner tank hoses as they are now pretty old. Teflon would be nice but it's too hard to seal.

Yep, tank venting is already on the to do check list. I don't have the charcoal filter junk.

Never had this problem before. I've always laid up the bike outside and covered most of the Winter but riding on the odd sunny day and never had any issues. Idle has always been rock solid which leans me away from the TPS. It's never shifted in years but I'll look at it with diags. Opening up the tank might be revealing but first I'll check the fuel pump pressure. What's weird is I can take the bike up to high speeds no problem, although I've not done a long cruise, which is why I need to nail this when I can get a nice day without rain to work on it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:54 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?


That's cheaper than mine and they give you the complete installation kit! My only reservation when I last researched BMW fuel pumps was the K1200RS needs the pressure and a higher volume delivery rate for its horsepower compared to R bikes. You can never get these figures from non-name no-brand alternative pumps. But if mine coughs when I end stop the throttle, I'll know it's not right. I discovered the only clue to pump 'variations' was the pump running current which I think was just over 4 Amp for the genuine O.E. The lower delivered volume pumps came out at around 3.5amps.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'voxmagna' for this post:
  #12  
Old 02-19-2018, 07:36 PM
Clambucket's Avatar
Clambucket Clambucket is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 53 Thanks: 32
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Leelanau, MI United state
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Great info shared here! It's comforting to know that other riders have similar experiences or technical questions and answers that are insightful. Awesome!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:08 PM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is online now
A skeptic and a pragmatist.
Post: 4,367 Thanks: 62
Thanked 790 Times in 693 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, BC Canada
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Bosch 69222.Requires an adapter that I easily made out of 3/4" UHMW and a couple hole saws to pick up the slack at the smaller (output) end.Other than that still humming happily at over 40Ks and cheap at about $100.00 CAD.

Better even is that I know that they and similar pumps are easily available at about just any autoparts on the road.Fuel pump failure? Pffft...free tow to a motel close to an autoparts.Back on the road the next day.

Probably not the problem anyway.Plugged fuel injectors from the coughing symptoms.
__________________
Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:34 PM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump-UPDATE

I started testing the existing fuel supply on the OE fuel pump before tearing anything apart. Unfortunately after disconnecting the QD on the pump supply side I turned on the ignition and the pump primed into a closed end due to the QD shut off. I've had this happen several times and usually you hear a different kind of thumping noise from the pump, open the blocked end and the pump runs happily as normal. This time with the pump output open, it stayed stuck in this mode - duh! So I'm thinking these pumps have an over pressure device and mine has just stuck open pushing gas around inside the tank. If you look on the end of the OE pump there's a clip. Remove it carefully and there's a ball underneath how it works I didn't find out?

The other odd thing occurred when I compared the freewheeling (no fuel) d.c current of the OE pump and the Chinese replacement. The OE was running at 1.5A no load and the Chinese pump at 0.5A. Time to move forwards with the plan:

I tore into the tank, replaced the fuel filter with a Mahle 145, and fitted the Chinese pump. All hoses inside the tank were good and vents clear. The Chinese pump is slightly smaller and shorter than the VDE OE pump and was a sloppy fit in the pump carrier. I removed the top and bottom rubber covers from the ends of the OE pump and slid them over the Chinese pump. Less wobble, but still not tight in the carrier. Fixed by sliding an O ring over the bottom and 2 O rings at the top to take up the space. Pushed down the plastic retaining clip and all now tight.

Checked the original pump filter screen, no clogging as far as I could see. Also checked the fuel rail pressure regulator screen - no problems there, Also managed to blow through the old fuel filter and plenty of air came out at 20 psi so I don't think that was blocked.

Then to the older MY97 pump flange: My original nitrile rubber gaskets had shrunk as soon as they came off (just like the OEs do!). I should have done a proper job and made the gasket from Viton sheet. Ordered the sheet, cut a new gasket and no leaks!

Fuel tank back together & time for testing. Checked the fuel pump delivery pressure - 60psi and stayed at 50 psi at key off. My fuel rail regulator is 3.5 Bar (51psi). I need to test the fuel flow rate when it gets warmer. I'll tie up my pressure gauge and tee piece then ride the bike naked without plastics with some hard acceleration. Outside air temperature was 8C (46F) and lower than I normally ride! Pump primed with a similar whirr, bike started and idled at 1100. Blipped the throttle, seemed better but recovery from an idle drop below 1100 seemed slow? Decided to put a little hand pressure on the TVA assembly, revs dropped as it went out of balance, but recovery to 1100 still seemed slower than I expected. Went for a test ride & revs didn't cut out completely on deceleration like before. Idled the bike on the stand and sometimes the revs would drop to 200 as if the idle was about to stall, then pick up after a delay to 1100.

I rarely ride the bike in cold weather and I'm now wondering if that's a factor? I think most of the original problem has gone, but random dips in idle and slow recovery need further investigation. I will check the air temperature readouts and TPS with the GS911. When it warms up I'll remove the air box and check the throttle rail and cable is free and not sticking.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-25-2018, 10:36 AM
Lowndes Lowndes is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 166 Thanks: 25
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roswell, GA United State
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Voxmagna,

Would the GS911 tell you, or give any hints about what is going on?? Maybe a lambda chart thru one of these "events", i.e. a spike in lambda would tell you fuel starvation (pump quit) while normal lambda thru the event would indicate an ignition problem. At least rule out some electrical problems like intermittent power (or ground) to the fuel pump, if the GS911 will do that, or the ignition coil going bad.

Intermittent problems are always more "fun".

Years ago I had an old Ford van that would occasionally die until the coil cooled (pouring water on it got me going quicker).
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-26-2018, 10:18 AM
voxmagna voxmagna is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 6,396 Thanks: 16
Thanked 514 Times in 453 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Thanks, I'll see what I get with the GS911, but I don't think you get a lot out on the older bikes like mine. The apparent slow recovery from an idle blip down to 200rpm and back to 1100 is cause for investigation in the TVA area. If the actuator mechanically moves quickly to correct but the engine doesn't, then I might be looking at idle mixture/stop settings which I can reproduce by taking the throttle rail just off its stop and back.. If the opposite, then it suggests the electronic control loop is slow to respond - O2 sensor?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:44 PM
Lowndes Lowndes is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 166 Thanks: 25
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roswell, GA United State
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

Voxmagna,

A slow recovery might be a mechanical issue, such as a sticky twist grip or kinked throttle cable, maybe a sticky TPS. Easy to check out with a reverse throttle twist when it doesn't respond quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:35 AM
pbegin@burton's Avatar
pbegin@burton pbegin@burton is online now
A skeptic and a pragmatist.
Post: 4,367 Thanks: 62
Thanked 790 Times in 693 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, BC Canada
Re: Cheap Chinese fuel Pump?

60 psi fuel pressure? That's way out of specs and may even shut down fuel on a Motronic system.All at once so idle will go down for sure.Reminds me of the thread where someone had a bike equipped with aftermarket injectors/rail and fuel pressure regulator.

He tought he had it fixed wanking around with the TPS and putting that way out of specs.I even tried his method of putting the TPS out of specs to compensate,my bike ran like shit.He eventually fixed it by installing a OEM FPR instead of the aftermarket at whatever pressure that was.
__________________
Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads (a database pull of similar subject matter)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check your bike for fuel pump recall! UNO_RIDER "K12GT" Technical Q&A 14 05-07-2015 11:41 AM
Fuel pump flange recall/ repair Mrmerlin "K13S" Gen. Discussions 5 02-23-2014 05:27 PM
HOW-TO: Installing an aftermarket in-line fuel filter on slant K-series. Nick V "K12S/KR" Technical Q&A 10 11-19-2011 06:54 AM
External electric Fuel Pump ColB "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A 5 06-25-2007 06:50 PM
HELP!! NO Fuel Pump After dead battery!! CyclePilot "KRS/GT" Gen. Discussions 7 05-29-2007 06:03 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36 PM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 0.65535 seconds with 16 queries