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  #61  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:29 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias_K1300s
Well this went to s**t creek.

Today when temps was a bit higher, up to 30c the pressure in the FD went up so that oil came out the hose and on to my shoe. Took a 250km drive and it started after about 150km, just to turn around and head home in slow mode.....you know, it sucks to drive this bike in 80km/h.

Anyway, now i have taken the banjo and hose off, drained the oil and refilled with 180ml. Had no choice as temps will be the same tomorrow and i am off to a friend for a daytrip, total trip will be around 600km for me. Can't have the bike spit oil on me the entire time so.

This is why I sold the Husqvarna and bought a Stihl.
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  #62  
Old 05-28-2018, 05:42 AM
knutk knutk is offline
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

The way I see it, when you get back after your trip, there are two choices.

- You can put an expansion chamber in line on your air outlet.

or

- You can convince your self that these bikes in regular configuration drives in lots of places in warm conditions, and with 180cc of oil in the drive there seem to be no problem.


Now, I can see how the second choice would be tempting, but then again, that would also mean you would have to give up on your idea half way through.

If this was my project, I would have put a small cannister inline on the vent hose, where the hose from the drive was led to the bottom and the air-outlet was taken to the top in such a way that any oil that led to the canister would be sucked back to the drive when it cooled of.

And then, and only then, I could say to my self: Yeah, it seemed like a good idea, "AND IT WORKED", but too cumbersome, so I went back to the 180cc route with no vent.
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  #63  
Old 05-28-2018, 10:29 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by knutk
- You can convince your self that these bikes in regular configuration drives in lots of places in warm conditions, and with 180cc of oil in the drive there seem to be no problem.
While I have been enjoying the ingenuity in this thread I have to admit that the above thought crossed my mind more than once. I have had no issues with oil seepage past the seal in eight years of ownership (including Texas summers) and I think most owners would say the same. I'm not sure what we we trying to cure here? The seal should not leak if in good condition and if it fails, replace it.
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  #64  
Old 05-28-2018, 10:45 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Well, the FD was designed for 220ml of oil....try that and see what happens.

180ml was the cheapest way Bmw could get out of trouble, the downside will be on the customer that has a FD with less cooling ability and the oil will degrade faster. Which in the end might be the upside for Bmw when a customer asks for a new FD.
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  #65  
Old 05-28-2018, 11:01 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

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Originally Posted by Mattias_K1300s
Well, the FD was designed for 220ml of oil....try that and see what happens.

180ml was the cheapest way Bmw could get out of trouble, the downside will be on the customer that has a FD with less cooling ability and the oil will degrade faster. Which in the end might be the upside for Bmw when a customer asks for a new FD.
Well I didn't mean to create an argument, but FWIW 180 ml fills to the bottom of the fill hole and covers half the crown gear, more than enough to provide adequate lubrication, and besides final drives almost always fail due to failure of the crown bearing which is a sealed unit and doesn't depend on lube fill. It may be more accurate to say that BMW originally overspecified the fill and simply corrected the error. In any event there isn't any evidence I can find that the 180 ml fill spec has affected final drive longevity in any way.

I'm not trying to criticize your effort at all, just suggesting that there isn't a lot of evidence that it's really necessary. I only meant that as an observation, not an insult. Please carry on.
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  #66  
Old 05-28-2018, 11:38 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Not taking any offense, just pointing out the facts, and it also a fact that the fd builds pressure. Regular seals like these cannot handle more than MAX 0,5 bar before leaking.
There must be a reason they said 220ml from the start. Better cooling and longer life would be the obvious things.

180ml to the bottom of fillhole is impossible, if that was true you would not get 220ml in there, it would just overflow and run on the outside, you can put 220ml in and not one drop overflows. Wth the bike standing straight up.
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  #67  
Old 05-28-2018, 11:56 AM
knutk knutk is offline
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias_K1300s
Not taking any offense, just pointing out the facts, and it also a fact that the fd builds pressure. Regular seals like these cannot handle more than MAX 0,5 bar before leaking.
There must be a reason they said 220ml from the start. Better cooling and longer life would be the obvious things.

180ml to the bottom of fillhole is impossible, if that was true you would not get 220ml in there, it would just overflow and run on the outside, you can put 220ml in and not one drop overflows. Wth the bike standing straight up.

You are indeed correct about the 220 ml.

But try to look at it with different glases.
The 220 ml was changed to 180 ml more than ten years ago. And the drives have been kept sealed.
What is the experience over these ten years?

- Do we have lots of failed drives due to lack of lubrication? Nope.
- Do we have lots of leaky drives due to lack of ventilation? Nope.

While I find your design interesting and it sounds like a good idea, please excuse my saying so, I don't mean to offend anyone, but it feels a bit like trying to solve a problem that hardly anyone have.
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  #68  
Old 05-28-2018, 12:01 PM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by knutk
- Do we have lots of failed drives due to lack of lubrication? Nope.
- Do we have lots of leaky drives due to lack of ventilation? Nope.

While I find your design interesting and it sounds like a good idea, please excuse my saying so, I don't mean to offend anyone, but it feels a bit like trying to solve a problem that hardly anyone have.
Bingo.

And FWIW on the Gen2 FD drive I had to tilt the drive to get a full 220 ml in there, 180 ml comes up to the bottom of the fill hole. But this is more coincidental than anything else, the fill hole was not designed to designate proper level, rather the drive was originally supposed to be fill-for-life and the fill hole used only for lube refill after disassembly.

But regardless, one can theorize as much as one likes but there still simply isn't any evidence that a 180 ml fill level has any effect on drive longevity. I don't think I've ever heard of a FD failing due to a lubrication failure per se, other than the sealed crown bearing failing and either sending shrapnel into the drive or seizing and damaging the crown gear. This accounts for most all FD failures with other causes being down in the noise, and has nothing to do with internal lube level.

Again, ingenuity is great and no one is trying to criticize the effort, but whether it is necessary or not is a legitimate question to ask.
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  #69  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:58 PM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

I applaud your efforts Mattias! Please don't be discouraged by the other posters. Some of us have had leaks of the outboard FD seal (filled w/180 ml).

FWIW, I applied dielectric grease to the outside of the new outboard FD Seal I installed earlier this Spring (filled w/180 ml) on my '11 K1300S - has 18k miles now. I just completed a ~2900 mile trip from Arizona to Illinois and no leaking so far. Riding temperatures were between 97F (high) to 65F (low).

My reason for applying the Dielectric Grease is to keep the outer Seal face from becoming dry and brittle. IMO the Dust Cover is not adequate to protect the outer Seal Face from entropy.

Lastly, I let the hot air pressure escape, after a spirited ride, by briefly opening then closing the fill Screw.
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  #70  
Old 05-30-2018, 03:44 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

I put grease in the little gap between the dustlip and the actual seal lip before fitting it to the bike, also put grease in the dustcover where the outer dustlip sits on the plastic cover.

Used a grease from work that can handle heat, dust and pressure, dont know its name but it is used to lubricate the main shaftseal on top of this vacumfurnace. So it will no doubt do its job on the FD. Due to it's high temp caracter it will not creep out and nor will it attract dust, it repells it.

I am still searching for and contacting factorys to see if i can find a venting valve with brassfilter in it that is small enough to replace the fill plug and not contact the brakedisc or anything else at the rear wheel.
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  #71  
Old 05-30-2018, 05:17 AM
knutk knutk is offline
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

The oil in the drive is GL5, which means it foams?

I think the tubing idea would work with some refinement.
What if you went to your nearest autoparts store and got a fuelfilter and mounted it vertically and inline ? As the oil, probably mostly oil-foam enters the filter the foam will stop in the filter and fill up from the bottom. We are probably talking very small quantities. As the foam settles in the filter and drive cools of the oil will be sucked back into the drive.
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  #72  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:26 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

There you go.....

All you need is a spring with low resistance.
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  #73  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:48 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

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Originally Posted by Patrique83
There you go.....

All you need is a spring with low resistance.
Hmm, that woul be easy to make....and a volume of just 20ml would go a long way and not take up space and easy to fit.

Vacation coming up in july....
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  #74  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:21 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

The spring and piston just have be able to take up the air expansion....

The change in air volume is fairly small when it heats up the final drive.

I dont have a lathe unfortunately, but it would be nice to see if it works.
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  #75  
Old 05-30-2018, 08:04 AM
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Re: Oil leak, final drive -09 K1300s

Well i have a lathe...but there is a shortage of sparetime for the moment. And a suitable spring.
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