I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1300 Series Motorcycles > K1300S > "K13S/R" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-24-2010, 03:43 PM
SteveB's Avatar
SteveB SteveB is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plymouth, UK, DN England
Question K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi everyone,

This is my first post. I’m mainly here to go on about how good the K1300S is, but I also have a noise / rattle / vibration problem to share. I’m hoping this is just a few rogue bikes, although I recognise these motors are “loud” mechanically. Mine does not have normal noise or vibration, confirmed by my BMW dealer. He and I have listened to it, cringed at 3,000 rpm and agreed "this is not acceptable". BMW are aware there is a problem (I have been told).

Here are my “symptoms”

At 300 miles I was back to the dealer, reporting potentially serious sounding noises / engine rattle from 3,000 to 3,500 rpm – which was worse when warmed up (barely discernable if at all when cold). It seems to come from the “centre” of the engine, maybe top end valve gear and or maybe deeper down clutch noise. Also a slightly different rattle noise at idle (that stops when the clutch is pulled in – like a bearing has gone). The noise was definitely a concern to the dealer when I reported this at 300 miles. The dealer said it could be an idler gear or clutch, but they weren’t sure and said “BMW were aware there was a problem”. I was hoping for a fix at the first service, but no different. I felt it seemed reasonable to run the bike in and rely on the warranty (hoping to hear about a fix / recall soon – as I have heard of others). It is annoying and unsettling to ride the bike with this noise as otherwise it’s fabulous. As you accelerate you hit the noise and vibration at 3,000 rpm, get through it and it’s fine at revs above 3,500. Then as you de-accelerate you get the noise and vibration again as you slow down through the “bad patch” in the rev range. When I first reported the sounds to the dealer, I was also describing “deep, low frequency” noise, very “clanky metallic” sounds and a deep “drone and whine” on the over-run. Now If very hot, holding the throttle produces a sound like something is loose and trying to get out! I've done 2,000 miles, I feel it is "slightly worse" now, rather than “settling down”. My girlfriend puts it in all in another less technical way but very illustrative: “sounds like a cement mixer to me”. There is no way BMW designed the motor like this, listened to it and said - yep - this is good to go". I took out a loaner K1300R last weekend – and this does not make the noise – so I know it’s not normal.

BMW UK are inspecting my bike after a long wait on 28th May. Will post the results. Feedback from Forum members welcomed in the meantime. I bet someone is thinking “record it and post it on the Forum. Ok – will explore that. Bike is with the dealer for the moment, I’m not accepting the bike back until resolved. I do have a recording, will see what I can do.

Ride safe

Steve
Plymouth UK
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-24-2010, 06:00 PM
trond's Avatar
trond trond is offline
(Moderator) Free spirit
Post: 2,596 Thanks: 34
Thanked 111 Times in 58 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oslo, Ak Norway
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

First I have heard of this kind of problem with the 1300 series
Hope you keep us in the loop
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-25-2010, 07:08 AM
henkpenk's Avatar
henkpenk henkpenk is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 600 Thanks: 67
Thanked 222 Times in 131 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rijnsburg, Holland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Steve,
Does the noise occur when the bike is in neutral or under load? A bit of clutch noise is normal when idling, I think.
You know there is an old trick for locating the source of scary engine noise. Start the engine and press the tip of a sturdy screwdriver to the crankcase or cylinderhead or whatever and hold the handle firmly in your hand like you want to stab someone with it. Put your ear to the hand holding the screwdriver. First you will be shocked from what you hear. With some practice though you quickly will be able to judge whether you're listening to normal bearing rush and gear mesh or abnormal grinding. By re-locating the screwdriver tip you can "probe" most of the engine. Try it, you will be surprised.
Anyway, since the K1300 is still under warranty and your dealer agrees the rattle between 3000 and 3500 rpm is not acceptable, I would press for an engine change. I mean: "a cement mixer"! My 1300S runs very smooth with some vibrating that starts above 7000 rpm but without horrible noises.
Henk.
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'henkpenk' for this post:
  #4  
Old 08-26-2010, 06:17 PM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Steve,
How did it work out with your bike? I probably got the same problem. It seems to be caused by the dynamo. BMW is familiar with this problem. They are going to inspect my bike to determine what to do. I'm certainly not going to accept this issue, so hopefully they come up with a satisfying solution.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-06-2010, 06:33 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

My K1300R has exactly the same problem; I picked up my demonstrator with only 800km on it and though it was broken!
The dealer told me "they all do this" and I told him I didn't want it.
We made a deal and I took a different bike, 10 months old with 9000km and it isn't quite so bad.
The dealer showed me an e-mail from BMW Switzerland where they say they know its a problem, but we don't know what to do! Take it or leave it!

Has anyone had any satisfactory results from BMW yet?
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'monkeewrench' for this post:
  #6  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:39 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveB
Hi everyone,

This is my first post. I’m mainly here to go on about how good the K1300S is, but I also have a noise / rattle / vibration problem to share. I’m hoping this is just a few rogue bikes, although I recognise these motors are “loud” mechanically. Mine does not have normal noise or vibration, confirmed by my BMW dealer. He and I have listened to it, cringed at 3,000 rpm and agreed "this is not acceptable". BMW are aware there is a problem (I have been told).

Here are my “symptoms”

At 300 miles I was back to the dealer, reporting potentially serious sounding noises / engine rattle from 3,000 to 3,500 rpm – which was worse when warmed up (barely discernable if at all when cold). It seems to come from the “centre” of the engine, maybe top end valve gear and or maybe deeper down clutch noise. Also a slightly different rattle noise at idle (that stops when the clutch is pulled in – like a bearing has gone). The noise was definitely a concern to the dealer when I reported this at 300 miles. The dealer said it could be an idler gear or clutch, but they weren’t sure and said “BMW were aware there was a problem”. I was hoping for a fix at the first service, but no different. I felt it seemed reasonable to run the bike in and rely on the warranty (hoping to hear about a fix / recall soon – as I have heard of others). It is annoying and unsettling to ride the bike with this noise as otherwise it’s fabulous. As you accelerate you hit the noise and vibration at 3,000 rpm, get through it and it’s fine at revs above 3,500. Then as you de-accelerate you get the noise and vibration again as you slow down through the “bad patch” in the rev range. When I first reported the sounds to the dealer, I was also describing “deep, low frequency” noise, very “clanky metallic” sounds and a deep “drone and whine” on the over-run. Now If very hot, holding the throttle produces a sound like something is loose and trying to get out! I've done 2,000 miles, I feel it is "slightly worse" now, rather than “settling down”. My girlfriend puts it in all in another less technical way but very illustrative: “sounds like a cement mixer to me”. There is no way BMW designed the motor like this, listened to it and said - yep - this is good to go". I took out a loaner K1300R last weekend – and this does not make the noise – so I know it’s not normal.

BMW UK are inspecting my bike after a long wait on 28th May. Will post the results. Feedback from Forum members welcomed in the meantime. I bet someone is thinking “record it and post it on the Forum. Ok – will explore that. Bike is with the dealer for the moment, I’m not accepting the bike back until resolved. I do have a recording, will see what I can do.

Ride safe

Steve
Plymouth UK

Hi Steve,
I have a nearly identical problem with my K1300R, I'm very interested to find out how you got on with BMW UK. Here in Switzerland, BMW are not very interested in looking into the problem.
Can you let us know how it worked out?

Thanks,
Richard
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'monkeewrench' for this post:
  #7  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:53 AM
ngc4945's Avatar
ngc4945 ngc4945 is offline
Things are lookin' up
Post: 286 Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Mine also has the vibration at about 3500rpm in about a 500rpm range. I was also told it was 'normal' - I have decided to just live with it because otherwise the bike is great. It's just a pity the vibration is in a range that you live in frequently when trapped in slow traffic. I thought it might be something to do with a harmonic balancer or counterbalancer.
__________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams - John Barrymore.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'ngc4945' for this post:
  #8  
Old 09-13-2010, 01:52 AM
SteveB's Avatar
SteveB SteveB is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plymouth, UK, DN England
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Don’t let anyone tell you “they all do this” as I have ridden several examples that don’t. The K1300 is a fantastic and landmark motorcycle in so many ways - with just a very few occasional quality problems that I am sure can be sorted by dealerships or BMW. My bike is still with Ocean BMW in Plymouth UK and I am still discussing this with them. I'll update you and this Forum with the outcome once finally resolved.

Ride safe

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2010, 06:06 AM
locus's Avatar
locus locus is offline
Consultant & Former Enthusiast
Post: 9,663 Thanks: 49
Thanked 138 Times in 101 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway
Send a message via MSN to locus Send a message via Yahoo to locus Send a message via Skype™ to locus
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Just to keep you guys updated, this have happened in Europe on this 'endevour'..

The German forums are also complaining of the K1300 vibration at appr./in btwn: 2500 - 4000 rpm's.
Several theories have seen surface, but none have actually hit the problem as the solver.

The latest was a theory of a bad Oilpump chain..?? ??



This Oilpump chain is driven via Clutch and are situated in 'sump'

The Chain was actually replaced by a keen Dealer, without the 'order' from The Mothership, and at the first miles after.. The engine was like new.. no vibration at all ... only to reappear..

(some referrals from German forums)
'The Official answer' to the issue, (and I gather this is from The Mothership, is as follows and almost like a joke in my ears);

"The rattle is resonance coming from The Generator. There are no known 'threatment' for this, and it is said that it would not make any damage due the rattleing."

another one..:

quote.... We are aware of the rattle at start. Though very individual from bike to bike and usually comes after the use of the starter... The reason and a threatment to solve this issue are presently not known. At this time several bikes are followed/analysed 'closely'. Please do ride along. The case is recorded in PuMA.... un-quote.

I do know that the above wont solve your issue, but atleast you will know that you are Not alone... This topic is still a problem....

The only truth is; If it rattles.. It runs
__________________
Kjell

Ride Fast - Ride Safe !
There is no road to happiness, happiness is the road
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'locus' for this post:
  #10  
Old 09-13-2010, 06:38 AM
sabamacx sabamacx is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 9 Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I had my clutch basket changed at 1700km on my K1300R to correct some loud noises at the 4k rev range.

The noise dissapeared but I now have vibrations at this rev-range. It's been recorded in the history of my bike with the dealer.

I've made a booking to swap to my old clutch basket to see if it fixes the vibrations -- I'll mention oil pump chain though.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2010, 03:41 PM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi guys,
My bike was tested by BMW-Netherlands last week. They recognize the problem but couldn’t find the cause yet. The dealer wants the bike for a week so they can open the engine, find the cause and repair it. I’ll keep you updated.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:45 PM
Craig H.'s Avatar
Craig H. Craig H. is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 264 Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta, AB Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Listening with interest.
__________________
When I go, I want to go like dear old grandpa...asleep at the wheel with everyone else in the car screaming!!

A recent study found the average Canadian walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found Canadians drink, on average, 22 gallons of beer a year. That means, on average, Canadians get about 41 miles to the gallon. Kind of makes you proud to be Canadian, doesn't it??!!

1972 Honda 450 SL
1976 Honda 750 F
1976 Yamaha XS 650
1978 Honda 125 CL
1982 Suzuki GS 1100
2004 Kawasaki ZRX 1200
2007 Suzuki GSXR 600
2009 Aprilia RS 125
2010 BMW K 1300 S
2017 BMW S1000RR
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Craig H.' for this post:
  #13  
Old 10-07-2010, 09:14 AM
sabamacx sabamacx is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 9 Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Had my dealer check over the bike and claimed they didn't notice anything (yet earlier they registered the vibrations on the PUMA system?).

Issue elevated to head service guy for the country -- he'll ride my K1300R to check over my issues.

Will keep posted.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-07-2010, 09:51 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I'm amazed with these dealers; evrey one of them pretend this is the first time they've ever heard of this problem.
All they need to do is google "K1300 rattle" and no end of forums are talking about it!
In my opinion, BMW are not doing themselves any favours at all.
My dealer here in Switzerland actually showed me (after much persuasion) an e-mail from BMW Munich, where they say they know of the problem, at first they thought it was timing chains, then they thought it was the generator, and finally said that it's all within the manufacturers tolerances that some are noisy and some aren't - basically, untill a bike siezes up and someone gets hurt, they're not bothered.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'monkeewrench' for this post:
  #15  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:23 AM
sabamacx sabamacx is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 9 Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Issue escalated, head honcho for the region rode the bike and said that although he agrees there are vibes, they are within the range of other bikes.

Despite the fact at purchase the bike was perfectly smooth, and the vibes were only introduced when my clutch basket was changed.

Badly dissapointed. Considering swapping the bike for a Ducati, or maybe a supermotard.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-24-2010, 01:41 PM
RFW's Avatar
RFW RFW is offline
2013 Member of the Year
Post: 9,307 Thanks: 182
Thanked 766 Times in 551 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kelowna, BC Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by henkpenk
You know there is an old trick for locating the source of scary engine noise. Start the engine and press the tip of a sturdy screwdriver to the crankcase or cylinderhead or whatever and hold the handle firmly in your hand like you want to stab someone with it. Put your ear to the hand holding the screwdriver.
This works MUCH better if you use a wooden dowel (1/2" to 1" diameter) instead of a screwdriver. The wood dramatically cuts down on the extraneous (and confusing) racket the metal shaft of the screwdriver lets through. Try it.... you will be amazed how much better this works!
__________________
Bob.

No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'RFW' for this post:
  #17  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:56 PM
ngc4945's Avatar
ngc4945 ngc4945 is offline
Things are lookin' up
Post: 286 Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I get quite a bit of vibration at the rev range I mentioned earlier in this thread. I wouldn't say it's enough to ruin the whole experience but it can be irritating in traffic when the bike tends to prefer ambling at that particular range. Obviously it's hard to assess if we have the same issue without jumping on your bike but if it is the same as mine I would try not to obsess over it and try to enjoy the ride. At least you have two years to work out if it's damaging in any way and mostly in other ranges it's a sweet ride.

I have had Jap bikes and they didn't have this particular issue - they mostly revved freely but that's not to say they didn't have other unrelated issues that were just as annoying.

Let us know how it goes - I am still interested to find out what really causes the vibes.
__________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams - John Barrymore.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-26-2010, 09:21 PM
rideaways rideaways is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Millburn, NJ USA
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I get a chain sounding rattle on my K13s right when it starts and only if it has sat around a few days. It reminds me of the rattle the Oilhead R bikes get when hot and after sitting for lunch. The latter (R bike rattle) is due to the chain tensioners draining off hot oil and loosing oil pressure and thus tension on the chains or so I hear. I've had a lot of these bikes and the rattle goes away as soon as it runs a half second and the tensioners get oil.

Now on the K bike, the first time this happened I couldn't reach the ignition switch fast enough before the rattle stopped. With this particular K13 rattle, it seems it is oil pressure related also since it goes away as oil pressure raises and that, it only happens very briefly when the bike is cold and has sat around a few days (maybe having drained off the oil pressure on the tensioner system?). A very loud and scary noise. Anybody else have this problem? Already I know I'm going to get people telling me to ride the damn bike everyday. No, I've never seen a Jap bike do this or even Hogs and Ducks.

I never got any satisfaction from dealers with the oilhead rattles so I expect the same this time around. I know my fellow riders of this beast will at least tell me about their rattles too and perhaps some solutions?
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'rideaways' for this post:
  #19  
Old 11-27-2010, 12:51 AM
biff biff is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 2,338 Thanks: 10
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: vancouver (Delta, BC Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by rideaways
I get a chain sounding rattle on my K13s right when it starts and only if it has sat around a few days. It reminds me of the rattle the Oilhead R bikes get when hot and after sitting for lunch. The latter (R bike rattle) is due to the chain tensions draining off hot oil and loosing oil pressure and thus tension on the chains or so I hear. I've had a lot of these bikes and the rattle goes away as soon as it runs a half second and the tensioner get oil.

Now on the K bike, the first time this happened I couldn't reach the ignition switch fast enough before the rattle stopped. With this particular K13 rattle, it seems it is oil pressure related also since it goes away as oil pressure raises and that, it only happens very briefly when the bike is cold and has sat around a few days (maybe having drained off the oil pressure on the tensioner system?). A very loud and scary noise. Anybody else have this problem? Already I know I'm going to get people telling me to ride the damn bike everyday. No, I've never seen a Jap bike do this or even Hogs and Ducks.

I never got any satisfaction from dealers with the oilhead rattles so I expect the same this time around. I know my fellow riders of this beast will at least tell me about their rattles too and perhaps some solutions?
Mines starting to do that. Get it fixed before the chain jumps and takes out a valve or several. I'm guessing it's just a new tensor,which is an easy fix.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-27-2010, 01:10 AM
Beech's Avatar
Beech Beech is online now
I-BMW Rider of the Year 2016
Post: 6,658 Thanks: 1,665
Thanked 1,579 Times in 1,210 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mount vernon, WA usa
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Rideaways, I think your cam chain tensioner is defective. Kind of like a lifter that has gone bad. It seems to allow the oil to drain out. I suspect this will be a warranty issue. If not fix it anyway with a new tensioner. I have seen threads on how to install one yourself with pictures. Looks easy. There have been a couple of bikes on these lists with the same problem and bad endings.
__________________
Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
Mount Vernon Cannon Works
K1300S
S1000R
I need a Honda sport or better yet a Monkey
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-11-2011, 04:43 PM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Finally, my bike is repared. At least I hope so since I haven't tested it yet. They replaced a free wheeling(?) pen of the starter which apparantly didn't meet the tolerances. When the bike got warm it started to vibrate. Now the snow is gone it's time for a test ride. If the problem is still there, I'll be back.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-17-2011, 05:46 PM
SteveB's Avatar
SteveB SteveB is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plymouth, UK, DN England
Smile Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Dear All,

I have reached a conclusion with BMW on the issues around the rattles and vibration on my 2009 K1300S. I know it’s been a while since my last forum update, but I wanted to run in a new replacement bike and make sure everything was fine before reporting back to this forum. I had to chase the dealership (Ocean BMW) and BMW UK a little – but a completely satisfactory conclusion has now been reach from my point of view. Some engine work was done on my original K1300S, and to some extent it was improved - but I still was not happy after 3,000 miles, so had to push BMW UK for a permanent solution to the problem. We finally agreed that my original K1300S would be taken as part exchange and a new K1300S tri-colour supplied at a reasonable additional cost / contribution from me in September 2010. As far as I am aware the original K1300S has been sorted as well. For however – I’ve moved on.

I have now run in the new replacement K1300S motorcycle and I am happy with the result (just had the first service - oil change & checks). The new replacement 2010 bike is mechanically noisy when cold. But when warmed up – the new bike sounds mechanically fine – no concerns from me. The new K1300s has none of the very course "rattle and vibes" symptoms of the other bike. This K1300S example runs very smoothly, accelerates and cruises at any speed really well, and is a pleasure to ride and own. I couldn’t be happier……….unless the original 2009 bike was this good! I really am completely happy with the riding experience (just need more sunshine please). No mechanical noise once warmed up, exhaust note sounds great too (Akrapovic muffler), best bike I have ever owned or ridden.

So what do I conclude from this saga? Some specific K1300S bikes do have the well reported on this forum mechanical rattle and vibration problem around 3,000rpm. Maybe it was just the 2009 bikes, as I have heard of less problems now. BMW are keeping tight lipped – but my 2010 model is so much better and feels like a higher quality and more exciting (yes - even quicker) product – I can only suspect that BMW make continual tweaks and improvements to production and design based on testing and feedback – resulting in products that evolve and just get better all the time. Like I said – I don’t know the root cause of the problem – only that for me it’s a successful conclusion. If you have a K1300 with a similar problem – suggest you nag the dealer and BMW for a solution and don’t give in until the issue is resolved.

Thanks to the guys at Ocean BMW in Plymouth UK who helped to resolve this for me. Thanks also to BMW UK – although I must say they are a hard organisation to engage with and get answers from. But again – after nagging – I must admit they did resolve the situation satisfactory for me in the end – so thanks to them too.

Looking forward to a long summer.

Steve B
Plymouth UK
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-17-2011, 06:53 PM
RFW's Avatar
RFW RFW is offline
2013 Member of the Year
Post: 9,307 Thanks: 182
Thanked 766 Times in 551 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kelowna, BC Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E. Coyote
They replaced a free wheeling(?) pen of the starter
I believe this is the "one way overrunnung clutch" sometimes known as a "freewheeling clutch", or "sprag clutch", that allows the starter to drive the engine, but the engine (once started) cannot drive the starter. Frankly, having had a lot of experience with this component on my old K100, as well as several Japanese bikes and even my beloved 1967 Honda S600 sportscar, I really doubt that it could cause this vibration.
__________________
Bob.

No more "Vancouver.... the Blond Bimbo of Cities" for me
.... moved to Kelowna BC in the beautiful wine country of the Okanagan Valley.

- '08 K1200GT, metallic charcoal/silver
- '86 K100RT, Diamantgrau Metallic (great old girl!).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-20-2011, 08:26 AM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

The cause of the vibration was the freewheeling mechanism of the electric generator ('dynamo'). Indeed, not of the starter. I tested the bike and didn't hear the rattle any more. So it seems to be solved and I'm quite happy with that! Only curious what will happen after a couple of hundred km's, but let's not be too sceptic...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-23-2011, 11:23 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E. Coyote
The cause of the vibration was the freewheeling mechanism of the electric generator ('dynamo'). Indeed, not of the starter. I tested the bike and didn't hear the rattle any more. So it seems to be solved and I'm quite happy with that! Only curious what will happen after a couple of hundred km's, but let's not be too sceptic...
Can you let us know exactly the name of the parts which were changed? (BMW part numbers?)
I'd like to take my bike to my dealer and tell them exactly what should be changed.
What is the name of your dealer?
It's great to hear that the problem is (hopefully) solved. Well done!!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-26-2011, 11:46 AM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Can you let us know exactly the name of the parts which were changed? (BMW part numbers?)
I'd like to take my bike to my dealer and tell them exactly what should be changed.
What is the name of your dealer?
The replaced part is the free wheel axis of the generator/alternator (no. 1199000). They had to dismantle the generator, starter and clutch to do that. My dealer is BMW Motorrad in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
Good luck!
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-26-2011, 11:50 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

That's great, thanks very much.
I'm going to see what my dealer here in CH will say to this!
Have you been able to ride a few more kilometers to see if the vibration really is gone?
You've probably got the same sort of weather as us, so I don't blame you if you havente been out much
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-26-2011, 11:52 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Oh, and another thing; did BMW charge you for this work? or is it all still under guarantee?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-26-2011, 12:06 PM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

It is indeed too cold to drive. And off course it was under guarantee (allthough I did receive the bill of € 340 by mistake).
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-20-2011, 12:11 PM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Question Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

W.E.Coyote until now, did you try the bike and did you see if the job, you have done, is working? Even I, as just bought, have the same problem and working on the oil pump chain tension I settled for a few tens of kilometers, but now is back, much to be ashamed if, in those conditions, someone hear my love (I love the K for everything else)
Roby
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:01 PM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I've driven about 250 km's now. Still no rattle and noise. So it sounds good (again)!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-02-2011, 01:50 PM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thanks. I'll try the job and I will tell you the result, because here in Italy we speak only about the oil pump chain, but it doesn't resolve!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:01 AM
odwa odwa is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Telford, PA USA
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I am having the same issues with my 2011 K1300s, 300 miles new. Has there been any successful solution from BMW regarding this?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:22 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Odwa,Sorry to hear you're having the same problems.I have had absolutely no help whatsoever with mine.I've now been to multiple offical BMW dealers here in Switzerland and in Germany.They all say the same; "we know of this problem, but so far no engine has siezed or broken, so we're doing nothing - live with it!"Well, I'm not living with it now, I've sold the piece of junk!Got a very good deal with a different BMW dealer and have bought a brand new 2011 K1300S - absolutely no problems at all!!Basically, to quote another BMW dealer (who will go unnamed) either you buy one that is noisy, or it's not - it's just a gamble.My advice - take it back and demand a different one, maybe you'll get lucky!If the rest of the bike wasn't so good, I would have given up on BMW a long time ago - their customer service is fantastic if you don't have any problems, as soon as you find something wrong with the product, they just don't want to know.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-13-2011, 06:05 PM
elp_jc elp_jc is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 3,151 Thanks: 1
Thanked 99 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I hope my '09 doesn't have this problem; just bought it from a private party. Searched his posts, and his only issue was the stalling, but was fixed right away.

How can you duplicate this issue? Can it be heard in N while sitting in your garage, or does the engine have to be under load? Please let us know. And hopefully one of the affected owners could shoot a quick video to hear exactly what you're talking about. I was a bit aprehensive of buying my first used bike on the first year it came out, but after much research, came to the conclusion the only inherent problems I found were not major at all, like the stalling, rear link, and bad switchgear. Of course, I missed this one . But other than the vibrations that put my hands to sleep at much higher rpm, I didn't notice anything weird while test-riding it, or coming back home, so hopefully I'm home free . By the way, my KRS used to vibrate very noticeably right at that range, but was deemed normal. Take care.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-14-2011, 06:11 AM
W.E. Coyote W.E. Coyote is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 8 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I,ve driven a couple 1000's of kilometers in the meantime, and still no nasty noises! Apparantly the cause was the free wheel axis of the generator/alternator. Keep pushing your dealer and the national importer for repair. I wrote a letter to the importer and had to pull some strings within that organization before they took action. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-26-2011, 03:04 AM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Today was a good day. I fixed the 3.5K - 4.5K noise/rattle issue on my 2010 K1300S! I'll post a write up with pictures soon.

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-26-2011, 07:32 AM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thank you tarmac, I have resigned myself to this noise because here in Italy dealers say it's normal and you can not fix.When you can, let us know your solution. Thanks again and greetings
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:14 PM
X-RAY MIKE's Avatar
X-RAY MIKE X-RAY MIKE is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 359 Thanks: 128
Thanked 111 Times in 80 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ghent, NY U.S.A.
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Had a horrific rattle at start up after the bike had been idleing until warmed up. Shut her off WITHOUT raising the rpm at all during warm up. Bike sat for 10 min and sounded like she was going to blow up when I re-started.Noise lasted 3/4 of a second. Logged a memo in my file at BMW. Without hesitation the service counter told me that they had a memmo from BMW re: cam tensioner noises. If it happened again they would up-grade the tensioner under warrantee. Will also instal Cam-Chain Jump Guard at the same time - no charge for labor on the jump-guard since it will already be apart. Max BMW in Troy N.Y. rocks.
__________________
2015 Motorsport Speed Bike
09 K1300 S Lava Orange (the faster color) R.I.P.
79 H-D FXS Low Rider (original owner)

Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too tired to fight he'll just shoot you.
I'm the first guy you see when you come to after saying "Hold my beer and watch this !"
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'X-RAY MIKE' for this post:
  #40  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:40 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Post Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

As I posted a few days ago, here is how I fixed the annoying rattle:


I bought my ’10 K1300S in May of this year. This is actually my second K13S. I had another ‘10 tri-color K13S which I regrettably sold last year. I really missed that bike so I bought another one just like it. I noticed the loud rattling noise/vibration in the 3.5K – 4.5K rpm right away. Though it had been awhile since I had last driven my previous K13S, I did not remember it making this noise. In fact I spoke to the new owner about it and he hadn’t noticed these rattling noises either.

The symptoms were a loud rattling noise and some abnormal vibration in the 3.5k – 4.5K rpm range, especially while decelerating in this range. It was always present regardless of engine temperature but it was a little less noisy when the engine was cold. It’s difficult to discern exactly where the noise is coming from but it sounds like it’s just underneath the air box around the alternator or starter. I also had random issues starting the bike when it was hot. The bike would start just fine cold and after a 30-minute ride and a brief stop it would barely turn over as if the battery was weak. I replaced the battery and this would still occasionally happen even with a full charge.

I took my bike in for service and discussed these issues with the technician. After a few days they called and said they couldn’t find anything wrong with it. They said the battery charge was a little low so they charged it. When I asked about the rattling sound they said they didn’t hear any abnormal noises. When I picked it up, I had them listen to the rattling noise and they were not impressed and said it was normal.

I usually always ride with earplugs and the noise is barely audible with ear plugs and a helmet. But I’m an engineer and just knowing the rattle was present really annoyed me. I knew the noise is not normal and that not all K13S have this rattling sound so I decided I would try to fix it myself.

Based on some of the previous information posted here and the symptoms my bike had I thought I would start with looking at the starter idler gear and alternator free wheel gear. So I ordered some parts and a few special tools and dove in.

I highly recommend getting the service manual DVD for reference and more detail on the following procedure.

Disassembly:
1. Remove the left/right fairing panels.
2. Remove the lower engine spoiler.
3. Remove the left/right fuel tank trim panels.
4. Remove the fuel tank.
5. Remove the starter.
6. Remove the clutch slave cylinder.
7. Remove the right engine housing cover.
8. Remove the crankshaft position sensor and install the crankshaft lock pin (BMW tool).
9. Remove the clutch plate cluster using the clutch cage driver lock (BMW tool).
10. To remove the clutch basket you need to unload the tensioning gear of the alternator free wheel. Turn the crank until you see a small hole in the alternator free wheel gear. Insert the locating pin (BMW tool) and turn it 90 degrees clockwise to unload the tensioning gear. The clutch basket can now be removed.

Now with the clutch basket out we can access the starter idler gear and the alternator free wheel mechanism. I rotated the alternator free wheel mechanism by hand and heard something rattle. The rattle was coming from a washer (spacer) that was next to the starter idler gear. The washer fit loosely on the shaft and had quite a bit of play. It also appeared to be somewhat oversized (outer diameter) because it overlaps the alternator free wheel gear teeth as well. Obviously the washer is there to keep the correct offset for the starter idler gear so it meshes with the alternator free wheel gear properly but I can't understand why they used a washer with such a large outer diameter. I was pretty sure this was the source of the rattle. So the next step was to replace this washer with a properly sized washer (spacer), one that fit the shaft without any play and the correct thickness to provide the correct offset for the idler gear.

Here is the challenging part. How to remove the shaft for the started idler gear? The only access to it is via a small port after you remove a plug. The shaft itself does not have threads and is pressed in... so it’s a tight fit. The service manual just says ‘use a suitable tool’. I struggled with this for a while and couldn’t get it out. I tried tapping the shaft so I could thread a bolt into it and use that to pull it out but the steel of the shaft was much harder than any of the taps I could find and I couldn’t cut a single thread into it. Very frustrating. After searching, I eventually had to order a special 'Snap On' internal shaft/bearing puller. It took 10 days to arrive. Once I had the puller I had the shaft out in 10 minutes. Having the correct tool for the job at hand always makes things easier. With the shaft out I could see just how poorly the washer fit on the shaft. It wobbled quite a bit and had lots of play. The idler gear itself fit perfectly on the shaft with no play whatsoever. I then found a replacement washer that fit perfectly on the shaft and was the correct thickness and had a smaller outer diameter so it would not rub against the alternator free wheel gear.

Before putting everything back together I installed the timing chain jump guard and adjusted the oil pump chain. Assembly is basically the reverse of the steps above. You need to unload the alternator free wheel gear again before installing the clutch basket.

Finally, no more rattling! Replacing the washer (spacer) definitely eliminated the 3.5K – 4.5K rattling noise on my K13S. Also, it seems to have solved my random ‘difficult to start/turn over when hot’ issue as well. The K13S engine is definitely not the smoothest engine out there, but at least it sounds normal now and it runs just like I remember my previous K13S did.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

-Tarmac









Reply With Quote
The following (5) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'tarmac' for this post:
  #41  
Old 11-29-2011, 02:56 AM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I have no words, just brilliant, I will do the job as soon as possible. many thanks from Italy
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-29-2011, 08:00 AM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

After reading your post, compelling, because I recognized myself in your story, I am sure that will solve this serious flaw, not at all normal, as they say different dealers I asked. Just another word, how do you explain you solved "difficult to start / turn over When hot" with the work you've done. Thanks again (I am sorry the poor english)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:15 PM
cooter's Avatar
cooter cooter is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 123 Thanks: 3
Thanked 39 Times in 18 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Jordan, UT United State
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Wow! That's way cool! So, can you tell us what the Snap-On tool was that you used to pull out the starter idler gear shaft and what washer you found that fits??

I have this exact noise as well, but no starting problems that I've experienced yet.
__________________
2012 Triple Black R1200GSA
2010 K1300S
2007 K1200GT
2005 VTX1800F(Sold)
IBA Member 48556
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:24 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by quasar
After reading your post, compelling, because I recognized myself in your story, I am sure that will solve this serious flaw, not at all normal, as they say different dealers I asked. Just another word, how do you explain you solved "difficult to start / turn over When hot" with the work you've done. Thanks again (I am sorry the poor english)

Quasar - Although I can't definitively explain it, I suspect that the oversized spacer was somehow binding the alternator free wheel mechanism due to the overlap. The problem was intermittent. I actually also disassembled the alternator free wheel mechanism and didn't see any obvious defects. I do know that prior to this when my bike was hot it would sometimes crank/turn over slowly, like the battery was weak. This hasn't happened since. Good Luck
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-29-2011, 09:33 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooter
Wow! That's way cool! So, can you tell us what the Snap-On tool was that you used to pull out the starter idler gear shaft and what washer you found that fits??

I have this exact noise as well, but no starting problems that I've experienced yet.

Hi Cooter,

Regarding the washer, I found one that fit perfectly at 'Ace Hardware'. It was marked as a 3/8" steel washer. Here is some additional info:

Shaft Diameter: 9.77 mm
Gear Inner Diameter: 9.80 mm
Original Washer Inner Diameter: 10.20 mm
Original Washer Outer Diameter: 40.00 mm
Original Washer Thickness: 1.47mm
Replacement Washer Inner Diameter: 9.80mm
Replacement Washer Outer Diameter: 16.00mm
Replacement Washer Thickness: 1.60mm

Regarding the special puller, I ordered the following parts from Snap On...
1 - CG41-14 - Collet $39.05
2 - CG250-8A - Shaft $53.9
3 - CG250-9 - Hammer $49
4 - CG41-11 - Rod $21.80

If you prefer you can order the complete puller set for a mere $1302.35...
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=10158&group_ID=2351&store=sn apon-store&dir=catalog

This is what it looks like...

Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'tarmac' for this post:
  #46  
Old 11-30-2011, 11:24 AM
cooter's Avatar
cooter cooter is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 123 Thanks: 3
Thanked 39 Times in 18 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Jordan, UT United State
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thank you! This is very helpful.
__________________
2012 Triple Black R1200GSA
2010 K1300S
2007 K1200GT
2005 VTX1800F(Sold)
IBA Member 48556
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-30-2011, 01:21 PM
Pedro Pedro is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 35 Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I don´t have any rattle or vibration in my bike but i enjoyed a lot this fantastic description. Thanks for posting.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-01-2011, 03:49 PM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Tarmac, I am amazed! reading your post was like reading my mind for the last two years!
I've bought and sold on two K1300s' because this rattle was annoying me beyond reason.
I now have a brand new K1300S which had no rattle for the first couple hundred kilometers, but now rattles like all the others. no less than 5 different BMW dealers all told me that this was normal, and I was starting to believe them. I too am an engineer, and just cannot live with something that obviously just isn't right.
Thank you so much for your absolutely perfect description of how to fix this problem. I can't wait to get into the garage and start work. If you're ever in Switzerland, let me buy you a beer or three!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-01-2011, 07:06 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Tarmac, I am amazed! reading your post was like reading my mind for the last two years!
I've bought and sold on two K1300s' because this rattle was annoying me beyond reason.
I now have a brand new K1300S which had no rattle for the first couple hundred kilometers, but now rattles like all the others. no less than 5 different BMW dealers all told me that this was normal, and I was starting to believe them. I too am an engineer, and just cannot live with something that obviously just isn't right.
Thank you so much for your absolutely perfect description of how to fix this problem. I can't wait to get into the garage and start work. If you're ever in Switzerland, let me buy you a beer or three!
Thanks. I may take you up on your offer.
-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:28 AM
biff biff is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 2,338 Thanks: 10
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: vancouver (Delta, BC Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Excellent post Tarmac! I had to hit the print button on this one! Keep going and you will put Haynes out of business. I do have a question for you...I'm interested in the dimensions of the clutch cage lock tool(box end wrench). Could you tell me the inside diameter of the ring and inside diameter of the square protrusions and there width?I have made several wrenches in past the like this for the heavy duty mechanics at work,not much to it.Thanks for your post.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12-03-2011, 11:55 AM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Tarmac, I see that you have no chain guard, I suggest you to apply it, as discussed here http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=34512 and shown #33.
Of course I support the call of monkeewrench for a meeting with drink here in nord est of Italy...
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:06 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
Excellent post Tarmac! I had to hit the print button on this one! Keep going and you will put Haynes out of business. I do have a question for you...I'm interested in the dimensions of the clutch cage lock tool(box end wrench). Could you tell me the inside diameter of the ring and inside diameter of the square protrusions and there width?I have made several wrenches in past the like this for the heavy duty mechanics at work,not much to it.Thanks for your post.

Hi Biff, I'll get you the dimensions early next week.

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:18 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by quasar
Tarmac, I see that you have no chain guard, I suggest you to apply it, as discussed here http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=34512 and shown #33.
Of course I support the call of monkeewrench for a meeting with drink here in nord est of Italy...
Quasar, it was the last step. The last photo shows it installed. It literally just snaps into place. Cheers.

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-03-2011, 10:07 PM
elp_jc elp_jc is offline
Can assemble bike blindfolded
Post: 3,151 Thanks: 1
Thanked 99 Times in 94 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
I suspect that the oversized spacer was somehow binding the alternator free wheel mechanism due to the overlap.
Thanks for your detailed post . I have the feeling that all of us engineers are just as anal .
Based on comments that even newer bikes have the issue, that means all bikes have the same darn washer... at least until early build 2011s. And that also means we all have the issue, but some bikes are worse than others due to tolerance differences. Or some people hear it more than others. I also wear earplugs, and haven't heard anything worrysome yet, but I can sure as hell feel the grinding/roughness on deceleration since I bought it with 2,700 miles. By the way, that feels similar to my ex-K1200RS that I bought new, so must be a BMW trait, I thought. Currently have less than 5K miles and hasn't gotten worse. I don't believe that washer would cause any damage over time IF it doesn't bind the starter, like yours did. But why the hell oversize that washer in the first place??? Just like the crank jump guard, we're talking $1 parts here; geez.

Anyway, have right engine cover off, fuel tank off, etc. to plug the air injection system, but still would have to buy a lot more tools for something that might not get worse, so will probably leave it alone for now. And I already had to buy special tools for the rear FD seal, so that'd have to wait until next year. But at least we know how to fix it. Plus it's a good idea to put more miles to adjust the oil pump chain as well. Hey, if you want to get rid of those tools cheap, I have first dibs . Thanks again for your contribution .
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:52 AM
Craig H.'s Avatar
Craig H. Craig H. is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 264 Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta, AB Canada
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Tarmac: Have you thought of sending your information to "head office" to see if they even respond?? Could this generate a recall?

Craig
__________________
When I go, I want to go like dear old grandpa...asleep at the wheel with everyone else in the car screaming!!

A recent study found the average Canadian walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found Canadians drink, on average, 22 gallons of beer a year. That means, on average, Canadians get about 41 miles to the gallon. Kind of makes you proud to be Canadian, doesn't it??!!

1972 Honda 450 SL
1976 Honda 750 F
1976 Yamaha XS 650
1978 Honda 125 CL
1982 Suzuki GS 1100
2004 Kawasaki ZRX 1200
2007 Suzuki GSXR 600
2009 Aprilia RS 125
2010 BMW K 1300 S
2017 BMW S1000RR
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-04-2011, 01:55 PM
quasar quasar is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 10 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trieste, Italy
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

... or perhaps a job as chief engineer at BMW ...
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:33 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I have been thinking about the washer and why it appears to have been deliberately oversized. While I had the alternator free wheel assembly out, I remember that the free wheel gear actually had a small amount of axial movement on the shaft. It was about 2-3mm, not much really and it wasn't sloppy. When the free wheel gear was at it's farthest point away from the tensioning gear on the shaft, the free wheel gear teeth meshed perfectly with the starter idler gear teeth. If the free wheel gear was moved to its limit toward the tensioning gear, than the idler gear teeth would not mesh fully with the free wheel gear (there was still plenty contact area between both gears though). With the oversized washer installed, it keeps the free wheel gear teeth perfectly meshed with the idler gear teeth. In my opinion it was a simple but poorly implemented solution by BMW. Without the oversized washer there is nothing keeping the free wheel gear from moving towards the tensioning gear, thus about 2mm of the face of the free wheel gear teeth will not be contacting the surface of the idler gear teeth. (Sorry, didn't get a picture of this) Keep in mind the idler gear and free wheel gear are directly driven by the starter alone. Only the split tensioning gear is directly driven by the engine.

By replacing the washer, I don't think the potential reduced gear meshing on the idler/free wheel gears will cause any issues. Personally, I would rather not have the rattle than perfect gear mesh on the idler/free wheel gears.

Our of curiosity, I ordered a replacement washer (spacer). I'm curious to see if it's the same outer diameter and inner diameter as the one that was installed in my bike. I'll report back once it arrives.

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:03 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig H.
Tarmac: Have you thought of sending your information to "head office" to see if they even respond?? Could this generate a recall?

Craig

Yes I have thought about writing a letter to BMW but haven't yet. I would be really surprised (and dismayed ) if BMW wasn't aware of the root cause of the rattling/noise issue. Plenty of people have complained. Surely they have looked into it. I suspect they know the root cause but have decided on a 'skillful neglect' approach for the following reasons...
  • its not a safety issue and customers are not in danger
  • there haven't been any mechanical failures attributed to it
  • cost to repair affected bikes
  • it's really just more of an annoyance than anything else
  • the K1300S is at the end of its life cycle

I'm not saying the above is acceptable. I just haven't taken the time to pursue the issue with BMW yet. I would be really surprised if this generated a recall. It would be nice if they at least reimbursed me for my labor/parts. I'll let you know what happens...

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:42 AM
monkeewrench's Avatar
monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, ZH Switzerland
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Thanks for the kind words guys.

I have been thinking about the washer and why it appears to have been deliberately oversized. While I had the alternator free wheel assembly out, I remember that the free wheel gear actually had a small amount of axial movement on the shaft. It was about 2-3mm, not much really and it wasn't sloppy. When the free wheel gear was at it's farthest point away from the tensioning gear on the shaft, the free wheel gear teeth meshed perfectly with the starter idler gear teeth. If the free wheel gear was moved to its limit toward the tensioning gear, than the idler gear teeth would not mesh fully with the free wheel gear (there was still plenty contact area between both gears though). With the oversized washer installed, it keeps the free wheel gear teeth perfectly meshed with the idler gear teeth. In my opinion it was a simple but poorly implemented solution by BMW. Without the oversized washer there is nothing keeping the free wheel gear from moving towards the tensioning gear, thus about 2mm of the face of the free wheel gear teeth will not be contacting the surface of the idler gear teeth. (Sorry, didn't get a picture of this) Keep in mind the idler gear and free wheel gear are directly driven by the starter alone. Only the split tensioning gear is directly driven by the engine.

By replacing the washer, I don't think the potential reduced gear meshing on the idler/free wheel gears will cause any issues. Personally, I would rather not have the rattle than perfect gear mesh on the idler/free wheel gears.

Our of curiosity, I ordered a replacement washer (spacer). I'm curious to see if it's the same outer diameter and inner diameter as the one that was installed in my bike. I'll report back once it arrives.

-Tarmac
Hi Tarmac, another small question; in this picture, it looks more like the oversize washer would stop the gear moving inwards towards the engine? That would explain why it's oversize.
If it (washer) is only there as a spacer why the hell ar BMW still fitting such a large diameter? in fact, a spacer made from POM or PBT would have done a better job? (no noise) By the way, my bike is a 2011 model, produced in August this year and rattles on like all the others!
-Monkeewrench.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-05-2011, 12:48 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 37 Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Hi Tarmac, another small question; in this picture, it looks more like the oversize washer would stop the gear moving inwards towards the engine? That would explain why it's oversize.
If it (washer) is only there as a spacer why the hell ar BMW still fitting such a large diameter? in fact, a spacer made from POM or PBT would have done a better job? (no noise) By the way, my bike is a 2011 model, produced in August this year and rattles on like all the others!
-Monkeewrench.

Yes, I think the oversized washer is there to keep the free wheel gear from moving in the direction of the arrow. It's the only reason I could think of for using a washer of that size.
I was thinking the same thing initially and thought of trying to source a Delrin (POM) washer with the same outer diameter and a properly sized inner diameter to eliminate the loosness but I was unsure of Delrin's thermal properties. I was worried it would melt if the engine got really hot for some reason so I just went with the smaller steel washer.

Mine is 2010 manufactured in late '09. Are there any early bikes that have the rattle? I wonder if the oversized washer was added later on in production?

-Tarmac
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 PM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 1.61331 seconds with 15 queries