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  #61  
Old 12-05-2011, 01:09 PM
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monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Yes, I think the oversized washer is there to keep the free wheel gear from moving in the direction of the arrow. It's the only reason I could think of for using a washer of that size.
I was thinking the same thing initially and thought of trying to source a Delrin (POM) washer with the same outer diameter and a properly sized inner diameter to eliminate the loosness but I was unsure of Delrin's thermal properties. I was worried it would melt if the engine got really hot for some reason so I just went with the smaller steel washer.

Mine is 2010 manufactured in late '09. Are there any early bikes that have the rattle? I wonder if the oversized washer was added later on in production?

-Tarmac

My old K1300R was an '09 bike, manufactured in early '09 and it rattled like a bag of nails.
-Monkeewrench.
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  #62  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:45 PM
elp_jc elp_jc is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Mine is 2010 manufactured in late '09. Are there any early bikes that have the rattle? I wonder if the oversized washer was added later on in production?
Only a p/n check would tell you. Mine is 02/09 build. I don't hear the rattle, but feel the 'grind', so probably have it but don't hear it with earplugs. And haven't done the 3-4K rpm test while stationary.
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2011, 12:22 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Tarmac,
Just got back from my BMW dealer in Germany; ordered the DVD service manual, clutch cage lock tool, tensioning gear tool and the oil pump chain adjustment tool.
I've just re-read your original post and noticed that you mention a crankshaft lock pin (BMW tool). can you let us have a photo of this and the part number?
Sorry to be a pain, but I intend to get everything ready for the xmas break when I'll have enough time to get on with the job.
BTW, when I discussed your findings with the service manager, he just shrugged and said that they will never cover this work under guarantee, but he had a sort of knowing expression on his face when I said it was clear where the noise was coming from.
I'll let you know how I get on after the job.
Thanks again from my wife, now that I don't moan every time about the same old rattle after I get back from a ride
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  #64  
Old 12-09-2011, 10:48 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
Excellent post Tarmac! I had to hit the print button on this one! Keep going and you will put Haynes out of business. I do have a question for you...I'm interested in the dimensions of the clutch cage lock tool(box end wrench). Could you tell me the inside diameter of the ring and inside diameter of the square protrusions and there width?I have made several wrenches in past the like this for the heavy duty mechanics at work,not much to it.Thanks for your post.

Hey Biff,

Here are the dimensions of the clutch basket tool.

-Tarmac
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  #65  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:18 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Hi Tarmac,
Just got back from my BMW dealer in Germany; ordered the DVD service manual, clutch cage lock tool, tensioning gear tool and the oil pump chain adjustment tool.
I've just re-read your original post and noticed that you mention a crankshaft lock pin (BMW tool). can you let us have a photo of this and the part number?
Sorry to be a pain, but I intend to get everything ready for the xmas break when I'll have enough time to get on with the job.
BTW, when I discussed your findings with the service manager, he just shrugged and said that they will never cover this work under guarantee, but he had a sort of knowing expression on his face when I said it was clear where the noise was coming from.
I'll let you know how I get on after the job.
Thanks again from my wife, now that I don't moan every time about the same old rattle after I get back from a ride

Hi Monkeewrench,
Here is a picture of the crankshaft lock pin and the clutch basket install tool. I'm not surprised at the response of your service manager.
Good luck on the repair and don't forget you'll need a special tool to get the shaft out.
-Tarmac
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  #66  
Old 12-11-2011, 11:25 PM
biff biff is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Hey Biff,

Here are the dimensions of the clutch basket tool.

-Tarmac
Great! Thanks for posting! Is the raised wall necessary?
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  #67  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:32 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac

Regarding the special puller, I ordered the following parts from Snap On...
1 - CG41-14 - Collet $39.05
2 - CG250-8A - Shaft $53.9
3 - CG250-9 - Hammer $49
4 - CG41-11 - Rod $21.80


This is what it looks like...


The business end of this puller looks very familiar to me. It works just the same as a broken shell extractor that is used to remove a torn cartridge case from the chamber of an assault rifle or machinegun. Can easily be modified into the Snap On configuration.
In Europe these pullers can be bought at gun shows for a few euros. I assume the situation is at least as favourable in the US.
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  #68  
Old 12-13-2011, 01:58 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Tarmac,
Thanks very much for the info, I think I'll have all the necessary tools now.
I ordered a bearing removal tool for the idler shaft - 5 to 8 mm range; this should be ok shouldn't it?
Just to be on the safe side, are there any other "special" tools that will be required? (what's the crankshaft nut size?
I'll be doing the job at our factory during the xmas break, and want to be sure it's finished before everyone returns in the New Year!
I presume the oil is removed and you replaced the filter?
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  #69  
Old 12-13-2011, 10:10 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Hi Tarmac,
Thanks very much for the info, I think I'll have all the necessary tools now.
I ordered a bearing removal tool for the idler shaft - 5 to 8 mm range; this should be ok shouldn't it?
Just to be on the safe side, are there any other "special" tools that will be required? (what's the crankshaft nut size?
I'll be doing the job at our factory during the xmas break, and want to be sure it's finished before everyone returns in the New Year!
I presume the oil is removed and you replaced the filter?

Hey Monkeewrench,

The inner diameter of the shaft is 6.95mm so the one you ordered should be fine. You will need a T30 torx for the clutch cover screws, an 8mm hex driver for the plug to access the idler shaft, a 30mm socket for the nut on the clutch/clutch basket and a 15mm or 17mm socket for the crankshaft (I can't remember exactly which one it was). You will almost certainly need an impact wrench to remove the nut holding the clutch on, mine was on pretty tight. Also there isn't much clearance around the nut so make sure the 30mm socket walls are not too thick. My Stahlwille socket wouldn't fit, I had to go buy a Craftsman socket. It helps to have someone hold the clutch basket tool while you break the nut free. When your pulling the idler gear shaft put something to catch the idler gear and washer so they don't fall down into the engine. This happened to me and I spent over an hour finding the washer and fishing it out. You don't need to drain the oil. Oil loss is minimal, around 150 mL total. When installing the clutch cover screws the initial torque value is 3 Nm and then a final 90 degree turn. I did the final 90 degree turn with a torque wrench and it ends up being 5.2 Nm. Good luck on the repair

-Tarmac
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  #70  
Old 12-13-2011, 10:19 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

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Originally Posted by biff
Great! Thanks for posting! Is the raised wall necessary?

Hey Biff - I don't think the raised wall is really necessary but it does help stabilize the tool under load.

-Tarmac
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  #71  
Old 12-14-2011, 02:00 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thanks Tarmac,
Can't wait to get on with the job, you've been a fantastic help
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  #72  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:43 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Hey Biff,

Here are the dimensions of the clutch basket tool.

-Tarmac
Thanks again. I whiped this one up at work this morning.
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  #73  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:43 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

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Originally Posted by biff
Thanks again. I whiped this one up at work this morning.

Excellent work Biff. Let me know how it works out.

-Tarmac
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  #74  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:55 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Just following up.... I received the replacement (OEM BMW) washer that I ordered several weeks ago. It is identical to the original washer in my bike.

-Tarmac
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  #75  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:58 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Just following up.... I received the replacement (OEM BMW) washer that I ordered several weeks ago. It is identical to the original washer in my bike.
AND???? Are you going to use it, or leave the Home Depot one there? Inquiring minds want to know . Happy new year everybody.
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  #76  
Old 01-02-2012, 12:20 AM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

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Originally Posted by elp_jc
AND???? Are you going to use it, or leave the Home Depot one there? Inquiring minds want to know . Happy new year everybody.

Hey JC,

Well since it's the same as the washer that was the source of all the noise/rattling I'm sticking with what I have in there now.

-Tarmac
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  #77  
Old 01-02-2012, 12:44 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Hey JC,

Well since it's the same as the washer that was the source of all the noise/rattling I'm sticking with what I have in there now.

-Tarmac
So if you had it apart again would you but a thicker washer in?
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  #78  
Old 01-02-2012, 10:37 AM
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Smile Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Tarmac,Finished the job, thanks to your tips and the sevice CD it was actually not such a difficult thing to do.The washer fitted to my bike was slightly different to yours:Inside diameter: 9.93mmI turned a new washer out of bronze, inside diameter 9.85, outside diameter 20.00 and thickness 1.60.I haven't had the chance to ride it yet; Swiss weather is not up to much, but the motor sounds sweet.I had the whole bike up on a workbench which made the job a lot easier on my back!I seriously do not believe that there will be any problems with the alternator free wheel not being 100% in mesh with the starter idler gear.I was a little confused however with the use of the big clutch basket tool. Once the crancshaft lock pin was inserted, the motor wouldn't turn anyway. I just used a 30mm socket and a decent extension to undo the nut.Also, the starter motor idler shaft just came out with my fingers! I didn't need the bearing removal tool at all. I imagine the machining tolerances were against you on your bike!Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you've ridden the bike for a few thousand miles and there's been no side effects.Looking forward to some dryer weather now.
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  #79  
Old 01-02-2012, 05:50 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
So if you had it apart again would you but a thicker washer in?

Hey Biff,

No, the washer I have in now fits well and does not rattle. The original washer inner diameter is significantly bigger than the shaft diameter and was causing the rattling noise. I posted the dimensions earlier in the thread.

-Tarmac
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  #80  
Old 01-02-2012, 06:08 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
Hi Tarmac,Finished the job, thanks to your tips and the sevice CD it was actually not such a difficult thing to do.The washer fitted to my bike was slightly different to yours:Inside diameter: 9.93mmI turned a new washer out of bronze, inside diameter 9.85, outside diameter 20.00 and thickness 1.60.I haven't had the chance to ride it yet; Swiss weather is not up to much, but the motor sounds sweet.I had the whole bike up on a workbench which made the job a lot easier on my back!I seriously do not believe that there will be any problems with the alternator free wheel not being 100% in mesh with the starter idler gear.I was a little confused however with the use of the big clutch basket tool. Once the crancshaft lock pin was inserted, the motor wouldn't turn anyway. I just used a 30mm socket and a decent extension to undo the nut.Also, the starter motor idler shaft just came out with my fingers! I didn't need the bearing removal tool at all. I imagine the machining tolerances were against you on your bike!Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you've ridden the bike for a few thousand miles and there's been no side effects.Looking forward to some dryer weather now.

Hey Monkeewrench,

Glad to hear it went well. Yes, I guess if you leave the bike in gear the clutch basket tool is not entirely necessary if you use the crankshaft lock pin. I'm really surprised to hear the idler shaft came out so easily. There was no way mine was coming out without the puller. I agree, the incomplete gear mesh is a non issue. Absolutely no issues with mine so far and the rattle/noise has not returned. Let me know once you get a chance to take it for a spin.

-Tarmac
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  #81  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:43 AM
biff biff is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Hey Biff,

No, the washer I have in now fits well and does not rattle. The original washer inner diameter is significantly bigger than the shaft diameter and was causing the rattling noise. I posted the dimensions earlier in the thread.

-Tarmac
Pardon me.I went back and read your post about inside diameter.There is no excuse for this. Of coarse it will oscillate on the shaft,what was BMW thinking?
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  #82  
Old 01-03-2012, 02:33 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac
Absolutely no issues with mine so far and the rattle/noise has not returned.
Hey man, how many miles have you put with the new washer? And the main reason for my post is if you know what material that washer was made of. I assume we can just put anything in there, do we? Is there any wear on that smaller washer? I also wonder if the larger stock washer will grind itself down until it no longer causes any issues, or can it continue grinding until the end of days? The rattling due to a large diameter inner circle (unexcusable indeed) shoudn't cause any issues. But the grinding on deceleration, if caused by the same washer, is definitely a concern over the long run. What is wearing? The washer? Or if it's harder than the surrounding parts, those parts will wear over time. Just curious if you had a close look to see what exactly was scuffed. Thanks man.
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  #83  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:34 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc
Hey man, how many miles have you put with the new washer? And the main reason for my post is if you know what material that washer was made of. I assume we can just put anything in there, do we? Is there any wear on that smaller washer? I also wonder if the larger stock washer will grind itself down until it no longer causes any issues, or can it continue grinding until the end of days? The rattling due to a large diameter inner circle (unexcusable indeed) shoudn't cause any issues. But the grinding on deceleration, if caused by the same washer, is definitely a concern over the long run. What is wearing? The washer? Or if it's harder than the surrounding parts, those parts will wear over time. Just curious if you had a close look to see what exactly was scuffed. Thanks man.

Hey JC,

I have about 600 miles since I changed the washer. The washer material was steel. I haven't opened it back up since I installed it so I don't know if there is any wear. There shouldn't be since it can't rub against anything (it's smaller in diameter than the original). Keep in mind that the washer/spacer is on the starter idler gear shaft. So the gear only turns during starting. Also the new washer isn't overlapping the alternator freewheel gear like the old one did. The rattling noise didn't come from the washer grinding against anything it was from it oscillating on the shaft and rubbing against the alternator freewheel. If you look at the picture of the original washer (earlier in this thread) you can see where it is scuffed a bit at the edge.

-Tarmac
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  #84  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Great description Tarmac! I'd like to know if you have any speculation as to why BMW didn't space the alternator freewheel gear over so it lines up properly? Would it be possible to make a spacer for that too? Having that much axial play seems a bit out of character for their reputation and their solution has a bit of a ghetto feel to it. I have a K12 and get a 5500+ rpm buzz/ vibration that really annoys me and I think this may have something to do with it. My conjecture is that the shorter stroke would move the vibes/harmonics up in the rev range. Thanks again for a great job.
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  #85  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvr929rr
Great description Tarmac! I'd like to know if you have any speculation as to why BMW didn't space the alternator freewheel gear over so it lines up properly? Would it be possible to make a spacer for that too? Having that much axial play seems a bit out of character for their reputation and their solution has a bit of a ghetto feel to it. I have a K12 and get a 5500+ rpm buzz/ vibration that really annoys me and I think this may have something to do with it. My conjecture is that the shorter stroke would move the vibes/harmonics up in the rev range. Thanks again for a great job.

You need to see the inside of the freewheel mechanism. The small amount of play is just the nature of the design. Putting a spacer in wouldn't be possible. I think I have a picture of it. I'll post it if I do.

-Tarmac
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  #86  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:38 PM
kvr929rr kvr929rr is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Thanks again Tarmac. I found some threads on the clutch basket indicating that might also be a source of vibration, so I'm going to look at that too.
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  #87  
Old 01-25-2012, 04:34 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Amazing!!!
Dear Tarmac, I live in Mexico City and have been riding K1300s's for a couple of years.
Been to all BMW repair shops trying to get a reasonable couse for the 3.5 - 4.5rpm vibration getting the same old answer... That's normal.
After reading about your solution I printed out the entire post and gave it to the manager of one of the ships and is willing to do the job (hurray)
Up to now there are 5 bikes waiting in line to get that washer replaced.
Unfortunately we haven't been able to get the size you suggested.
Please help!!! I'd be willing to pay $100 for 5 washers to be sent down to Mexico.
Would it be too much to ask you to get them for us???
Thanks and BRAVO!!!
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  #88  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:47 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your comments. I sent you a pm.

-Tarmac
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  #89  
Old 01-26-2012, 02:24 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed cline
I live in Mexico City and have been riding K1300s's for a couple of years.
You're a brave man to ride a motorcycle in Mexico City . Lived there for 20 years, but left 30 ago. I'd LOVE to ride to Cuernavaca on a bike . Toluca wouldn't be bad either, but it was BAD with traffic back then; can't imagine now . I only miss Tequesquitengo and Cuernavaca; nothing else. Haven't been back in over 20 years. My brother flies there every week (owns a business), but he likes the fast life. Good luck man, and ride carefully.
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  #90  
Old 02-02-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

After reading TARMAC´s post about his solution to the 3.5 - 4.5 vibration, i decided to go for it.
Got a BMW dealer to get the job done but needed to get the replacement washer.
After a long search without success i decided to have one made special.
Inner diameter: 9.80mm
Outer diameter: 16.00mm
Thickness: 1.60mm
Picked up the bike today, SWEET!!!!! the F*** vibration is finally gone.
The head manager of the dealer was so surprised, he couldn´t belive that a simple washer could cause the problem they have been dealing with since 09.
To all K owners, TARMAC hit the bullseye. if you have the vibration problem, get that washer replaced, absolutely worth it.

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  #91  
Old 02-04-2012, 08:06 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Dear all,

I started this thread when my new K1300s suffered these symptoms. BMW resolved this for me (eventually), and now I experience nothing but joy and excitement from my bike. No unusual noise, rattles or vibration. I have enjoyed reading all your comments and have been intrigued with the fixes proposed and implemented. In a way I do miss tinkering with my bikes and improving them.................

However - the root cause of these problems are a design or manufacture issue caused by BMW. BMW may be reluctant to admit this - but dealers are aware of the problem and know how to fix this. The problems I had were all sorted by BMW and my local dealer - I'm completely happy about the outcome now (although it was a trial at the time).

Therefore - fascinating as this thread is - can I suggest that forum members still in warranty or even just out of warranty take their bikes back to their BMW dealer and insist they get it fixed for them. Even if well out of warranty - there is a chance BMW and the dealer will be supportive and maybe offer a fix by supplying corrective parts and just charging labour costs or something like that. BMW and their dealers want to keep us all loyal so we will be repeat customers in future. Thanks to the support from my local dealer (BMW UK less so), my next bike will be a BMW.

If your local dealer is not supportive - please contact BMW UK or your national importer. If anyone wants more help in nailing this issue - please talk to the team at Ocean BMW team in Plymouth UK, as they did get to the bottom of this issue and know how to fix it. (Sorry Mark & Bill if you get loads of calls - but there will be a few new customers too!). http://www.oceanbmwbikes.co.uk

So, hope anyone still having this problem gets it sorted by the Spring - have a great trouble free year on your K and ride safe too.

SteveB
Plymouth UK
K1300S Tricolour
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  #92  
Old 03-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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monkeewrench monkeewrench is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

To all involved with this rattle issue, and especially Tarmac

I also did the work myself, manufacturing my own washer as per Tarmacs instructions, and took it out last week for the first proper run; Absolutely fantastic
The awful rattle noise is gone at last.
I can't believe I got through three different K1300 models just because my dealer kept saying that this is "normal".

If anyone in the Switzerland area wants to borrow all the tools I bought for the job, let me know. (I'll sell them on if anyone is interested).

(My dealer is still saying that this is not a problem and refuses to do the job under warranty, to be honest, I can't be bothered anymore discussing it with him, my bike is still under warranty and he won't cover anything).

Once again, Thanks Tarmac for finding the solution and describing the repair so well.
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  #93  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:07 AM
lfoggy lfoggy is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Anyone in the UK able and willing to do this mod or willing to lend the tools needed ? I can make the washers....
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  #94  
Old 03-13-2012, 07:52 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
To all involved with this rattle issue, and especially Tarmac

I also did the work myself, manufacturing my own washer as per Tarmacs instructions, and took it out last week for the first proper run; Absolutely fantastic
The awful rattle noise is gone at last.
I can't believe I got through three different K1300 models just because my dealer kept saying that this is "normal".

Monkeewrench, you have a PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:43 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeewrench
To all involved with this rattle issue, and especially Tarmac

I also did the work myself, manufacturing my own washer as per Tarmacs instructions, and took it out last week for the first proper run; Absolutely fantastic
The awful rattle noise is gone at last.
I can't believe I got through three different K1300 models just because my dealer kept saying that this is "normal".

If anyone in the Switzerland area wants to borrow all the tools I bought for the job, let me know. (I'll sell them on if anyone is interested).

(My dealer is still saying that this is not a problem and refuses to do the job under warranty, to be honest, I can't be bothered anymore discussing it with him, my bike is still under warranty and he won't cover anything).

Once again, Thanks Tarmac for finding the solution and describing the repair so well.

Hey Monkeewrench,

Glad to hear this and thanks for the kind words. Mine is still rattle free as well.
Did you really go thru 3 different bikes searching for a good one?

Tarmac
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  #96  
Old 03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hey Tarmac,
My first BMW was a 2010 K1300R with 800km: it rattled so bad, the dealer took it straight back and gave me a good deal on a 2009 K1300R with 3000km. This one rattled less than the previous, but after riding about 8000km on it, the rattle just annoyed me so much that I went ahead and bought a brand new K1300S last autumn.
This is the bike that I have now repaired after reading your posts. It's now got 3000km on it.

These bikes are actually quite amazing, the performance is eye opening (especially after fitting a power commander and having the bike set up on a rolling road) and its surprisingly quick around our local track (surprises a few of the GSXRs' coming out of the corners too;-), it's such a shame that BMW don't just fix the rattle.

Iv'e ben riding bikes now for 31 years and have gone through a number of bikes, good and bad, but the K1300S has got to be the best all round bike I've ever owned - you can pop out for a sunday afternoon blast around the black forest, keeping up with the loons on KTMs' and then pack it up for a 1000km tour down to Italy the week later - not many bikes could master that!

The rattle was the only thing ruining the experience, thanks to you, this is now a thing of the past
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  #97  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Put the jump guard in today and although my bike did not rattle that much between 3 - 4K revs, I decided that since the clutch cover was removed, to replace the bad washer with a home made one.
I did not remove the starter and the generator. This saves a lot of time because the gas tank can stay put.
I only removed the clutch, pulled the hollow axle with a simple home made puller, changed the washer, tightened the oil pump chain and put everthing back in.
A few remarks:
The central clutch nut is torqued VERY TIGHT and takes a lot of force. Not a one man job if you are not using an air hammer. I had to extend the wrench with a meter long steel pipe to get enough leverage while my buddy lying on his back, had his feet against the clutch lock tool to prevent it's lugs from disengaging. The lock tool itself was supported by a hefty wooden block between it and the ground. We repeated this circus act when remounting the clutch.
I re-used the steel gasket and like everyone who has done this job, now have a paper spare one.
Although I replaced the expensive aluminum bolts, I first re-used the old ones when making a test ride to check if the job was done right. No leaks and everything worked fine. After replacing the old bolts though, I noticed that the threads were already rounded from "torqueing" them twice. So my advise is to not re-use these bolts.
Bike sounds like when it was new: 95% exhaust, 5% the usual mechanical noises.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
lfoggy lfoggy is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

OK, I've found a BMW mechanic who will do his mod for me as the rattle is quite irritating. I am going to make the washer myself as I have access to machining facilities. Question is what dimensions and what material.
I could make the washer the same 40mm O.D. as the original but make it thicker (1.60mm) with an I.D. of 9.82mm to give a close sliding fit on the shaft. This will maintain the meshing of the two gears and hopefully rattle less. Alternatively I could go fo 20mm O.D. and lose the overlap like tarmac and monkeywrench. Any thoughts ?

As for the material - phosphor-bronze, brass, steel.....any suggestions ?
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
OK, I've found a BMW mechanic who will do his mod for me as the rattle is quite irritating. I am going to make the washer myself as I have access to machining facilities. Question is what dimensions and what material.
I could make the washer the same 40mm O.D. as the original but make it thicker (1.60mm) with an I.D. of 9.82mm to give a close sliding fit on the shaft. This will maintain the meshing of the two gears and hopefully rattle less. Alternatively I could go fo 20mm O.D. and lose the overlap like tarmac and monkeywrench. Any thoughts ?

As for the material - phosphor-bronze, brass, steel.....any suggestions ?

Let us know what you do. I've JUST picked up my K1300R (only 200km so far), and the vibration is seriously driving me insane.

At the 1000k post break in service, I will have to get them to do this.
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  #100  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:16 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
OK, I've found a BMW mechanic who will do his mod for me as the rattle is quite irritating. I am going to make the washer myself as I have access to machining facilities. Question is what dimensions and what material.
I could make the washer the same 40mm O.D. as the original but make it thicker (1.60mm) with an I.D. of 9.82mm to give a close sliding fit on the shaft. This will maintain the meshing of the two gears and hopefully rattle less. Alternatively I could go fo 20mm O.D. and lose the overlap like tarmac and monkeywrench. Any thoughts ?

As for the material - phosphor-bronze, brass, steel.....any suggestions ?

As far as the outer diameter, it probably doesn't really matter but I think a smaller diameter washer would be less prone to vibrate or make noise. The inner diameter is critical. The washer I installed is bronze. I think steel would also be fine. Good luck.

Tarmac
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  #101  
Old 05-08-2012, 05:13 PM
GPK1300 GPK1300 is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I talked to Tarmac about this personally but I just wanted to add to the forum. I bought a 2010 K1300R that was sitting at a dealer for two years with 1400Km on it. I knew something was major wrong the day I brought it home. Severe buzzing noise at 4500 RPM and as it decelerated down to 3000 RPM. 5000 RPM and above, very smooth.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that BMW does not acknowledge this massive problem over a bloody 50 cent washer !!!! And on top of it I have to deal with " it's not a BMW approved repair and will void your warranty"
They have adjusted the balance shafts and possibly changing the clutch basket now.
The symptoms I have are exactly what is described here, and I hand them the solution and they won't do it !!!
Stay tuned guys, I may be the first one to sue these guys for my money back. It's very quickly getting to that point. They have to learn that they will not get away with it.
We should not have to fight for a bike that works, and then they ignore the solution. Yikes.
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  #102  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:07 PM
GPK1300 GPK1300 is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

New washer on idler shaft installed, new clutch basket, same horrible noise. Calls are in to BMW engineering and whispers of a new engine. Good times ! Wonderful experience.
Shame on me for not doing my due diligence before buying this bike.
I looked at the BMW Microfiche and a new engine is $ 13,250.00 USD . Might as well give me a new bike. BMW would not tolerate this substandard product in their cars, why in their bikes ?
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  #103  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:46 AM
Pedro Pedro is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

It´s strange because some bikes (like mine) come with no problems and another ones come with problems. Someting to BMW think about.
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  #104  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro
It´s strange because some bikes (like mine) come with no problems and another ones come with problems. Someting to BMW think about.

That tells me one thing. poor quality control. These are motorcycles, not custom guitars where each one has a variance in sound and quality. Most engine components are made on CNC machines, but somehow I feel the tolerances are loosy goosy for motorcycles, compared to modern automobiles. Have a few parts out of concentric and then rev them at 4000-9000 RPM and you will get noise and vibration.
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  #105  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:57 AM
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Mrmerlin Mrmerlin is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I just bought a 2011 and it had 440 miles on it,
after riding an additional 230 miles , I find there is a sort of grinding noise from what sounds like the cam chain or the center of the engine.

At first it sounded like a loose fairing so I removed the fairings and checked for loose fittings,
the only part that was loose was the rear most heat shield on the belly,
after refitting it the vibration it made went away and made it easier to hear the engine vibration.

So its more clear now from about 4200 RPM till about 2600 RPM when decelerating the grinding/ rattling noise is apparent.

Conditions: engine warm and any gear selected closing throttle from 4200 RPM then coasting down to 2600 RPM rattle ensues

If the throttle is opened and the engine put under load then noise goes away.

I had removed the clutch cover to install the plastic jump guard then I found this info from Tarmac.

NOTE my bike came with the new tensioner installed there isnt any rattle noise on start up
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  #106  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:15 AM
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henkpenk henkpenk is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

You are experiencing the by now classic K13-rattle. Live with it or replace the washer inside. If you hold the washer that BMW puts in, between your fingers and tap it, it rings like a bell. No wonder it makes noise once it starts vibrating on its hollow shaft.
Replacing it will eliminate nearly all the noise and vibration in that rev-bracket. My guess is that the washer does not cause the vibration because it only spins when the starter is at work, but it reacts to - possibly - the harmonics of the alternator and/or its rubber coupler.
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  #107  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:15 PM
GPK1300 GPK1300 is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

The source of the extreme buzzy noise for mine was the rubber coupling at the generator. It was broken in pieces and amplified the noise. They changed that and the generator.
It is not as loud now ,but that buzzing sound that you're experiencing is a characteristic of the bike. I first thought it was a body panel or metal baffle too, but it's not.
I changed the washer to Tarmac's fix as well but it definitely did not make the noise "disappear" as many here have stated.
I rode two other k1300s's at two dealers(mines an R) and they make the same irritating noise from 3000-4000 RPM.
This engine design was subbed out to "Ricardo" an engine designer and not done by BMW.
The noise is from the generator and it's corresponding gears in the area that Tarmac describes. Something there resonates at that RPM level and it's just a faulty design IMO.
As Bernardo says, either accept it or get rid of the bike. I just try to stay out of that RPM range and when I slow down I pull the clutch in so it doesn't buzz through that range.
It's like dating a beautiful girl. Nice and sexy , but fussy and irritating at times too.
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  #108  
Old 05-25-2012, 01:42 PM
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Mrmerlin Mrmerlin is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Ahh Ricardo

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...-bAPJDYU-VH0uQ
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  #109  
Old 05-26-2012, 06:59 PM
RM400MAN RM400MAN is offline
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Angry Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi all,I have recently purchased a 2012 K1300S and after 500klms started to experience the same noise and vibration problems.Been back to the dealer and am now in intense negotiation with BMW Australia,I am refusing to accept this bike back under any circumstance.Apparently BMW want to order a new alternator idler shaft from Germany,seems BMW have replacement parts to fix this problem so they have known about this issue from the start,but have deliberately denied of it`s existence.I am refusing to pay good money for a product that does not meet my expectation of a quality motorcycle,and no way will I allow the mechanics to open up the engine and strip it down.They have already pulled the clutch basket out and there is now paint missing from around the clutch cover.I still cannot believe that one of the biggest motorcycle builders can allow this debarcle to happen.Here in australia we have an organisation called the Consumers,Traders and Tenancy Tribunal,they have the legal power to enforce repair,replacement or refund orders and this is where I am now heading.Defently do not want another crap k1300 (am the owner of a great S1000RR) so am after my trade in back,a good old ZX12R Ninja. cheers,Steve Fennell
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  #110  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:00 PM
GPK1300 GPK1300 is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Steve. You are absolutely right , this is unacceptable. Germans are not stupid and I'm sure they know this is a big issue. They will also deny it until the cows come home. I am hearing whispers that the K1300 S and R may be discontinued soon like the K1300GT. Unfortunately, I don't like the look or size of any Italian or Japanese naked bikes or sport bikes. I'm 6'5" and the K 1300R is a nice size for me. Every Jap bike I've been on I've felt like a bear on a tricycle. It's a shame that BMW let this design out. It's also silly how they design their seat slopes and the mirror widths. Who the hell tests these bikes? 90 pound kids with no shoulders ?
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  #111  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:18 PM
RM400MAN RM400MAN is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Maybe there needs to be a law suit action taken by all affected K1300 owners,thank god for the internet atleast these sorts of issues can be shared by anyone with a computer these days,the big corporations can`t keep individual people in the dark for long now.
cheers,Steve
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  #112  
Old 05-27-2012, 06:25 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Dear all,

I started this thread originally when my new K1300s suffered these symptoms. I have posted the main points before - but as I keep seeing owners with these issues I feel it's worth an update and to state my current 2010 K1300S never had any noise, rattle or vibration problems from new. It's as smooth and powerful and trouble free as I could every wish for - so if you do have any of the symptoms well described in these posts - it's not a design fault anybody needs to tolerate.

A previous K1300S I bought new in 2009 did have the fault and BMW UK resolved this for me (eventually), and now I experience nothing but joy and excitement from my current bike. With the amount of worldwide publicity on forums I'm amazed to still be hearing that some BMW dealers will not admit there is a fault on a few bikes, and frankly - that some of you are prepared to attempt a fix yourselves when BMW dealers (certainly mine) know what the fault is and can sort this for you.

Therefore - fascinating as this thread is - can I suggest that forum members still in warranty or even just out of warranty take their bikes back to their BMW dealer and insist they get it fixed for them. Even if well out of warranty - there is a chance BMW and the dealer will be supportive and maybe offer a fix by supplying corrective parts and just charging labour costs or something like that. BMW and their dealers want to keep us all loyal so we will be repeat customers in future. Thanks to the support from my local dealer (BMW less so - communication skill not their strong point), my next bike will be a BMW.

If your local dealer is not supportive - please contact BMW UK or your national importer. If anyone wants more help in nailing this issue - please talk to the team at Ocean BMW team in Plymouth UK, as they did get to the bottom of this issue and know how to fix it. (Sorry Bill if you get loads of calls - but there may be a few new customers too!). http://www.oceanbmwbikes.co.uk

If you still can't get it resolved - in the UK it's easy to reject the vehicle using the Sale of Goods Act. You can then expect a repair or replacement to your satisfaction - don't "Accept" the bike under the terms of the Act until you are happy. Hopefully there is similar legislation in Australia the forum member with this fault on his new bike can use.

So, hope anyone still having this problem gets it sorted before the end of the summer. These bikes are amazing, the fault described in this post is a "known error" on a few bikes that can be fixed by any credible BMW dealer (you should not need to rebuild your own bike!). Good luck and ride safe.

SteveB
Plymouth UK
K1300S Tricolour
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  #113  
Old 05-27-2012, 08:08 AM
GPK1300 GPK1300 is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Hi Steveb, it is not clear to me from this thread what was wrong with your 2009 K1300 ? Did they tell you what they found or was it just resold to someone else without knowing the cause of the vibration ?
Your newer 2010 does not even have a hint of the vibration noise from 3000-4000 RPM ? I would find that hard to believe as I rode a few of these, including a 2012 and they all showed some level of it.
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  #114  
Old 05-27-2012, 11:37 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Steve your cryptic message does not fill in enough blanks.
What was the remedy?
adding part numbers would be a good start, as well as describing the issues your old bike had.

What I am experiencing is a defined rattle/grinding/ rubbing noise when the throttle is closed from 4200RPM to about 2600 RPM, when the engine is hot and in any gear,
this noise will go away when the throttle is opened and the engine put under load,
it sounds like its coming from the front right of the engine.
my 2011 has the jump guard installed and the new timing chain tensioner.

The next step for me is to fit the smaller washer to the starter idler shaft,
like Tarmac has done.
My bike has all of 620 miles on it.
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:46 PM
lfoggy lfoggy is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I've got a new 2012 K1300s and it has a rattle at 3500-4000rpm on the overrun when the engine is hot. With earplugs in it's quite hard to hear. I suspect if I hadn't read this thread soon after buying the bike I probably wouldn't have noticed it. Maybe its louder on other bikes but on mine I really don't think this noise would warrant a warranty claim....its more a quirk of the bike than a fault.
Now I know it's there however I find it quite annoying and was planning to get the washer replaced this summer.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:55 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Steve - You replaced your bike with a new one correct? How do you know they resolved the issues with your old one? What was the fix?

Some bikes definitely make more noise than others. I think that most people are satisfied with the washer replacement as it takes care of the distinct rattling noise. The rattling noise is gone on my bike and has not returned. It is still noisier in the 3K-4K range than anywhere else but the annoying rattling sound is absent. I think the noise that remains in the 3K - 4K range is from the generator free wheel assembly. In fact I had initially planned on changing it as well but decided to just change the washer to start with. I have a new generator free wheel assembly that I ordered along with the parts I needed for the initial washer fix. I may install it when I get some time to see if it makes any difference.

-Tarmac
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  #117  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:24 PM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Tarmac whats involved in replacing the alternator freewheel?
How much was the new freewheel part?
Did your alternator rubber drive connector look like it was damaged?
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  #118  
Old 05-27-2012, 09:52 PM
tarmac tarmac is offline
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
Tarmac whats involved in replacing the alternator freewheel?
How much was the new freewheel part?
Did your alternator rubber drive connector look like it was damaged?

Mrmerlin,

It's not a trivial task. It's pretty much the same procedure I wrote up. The starter idler gear needs to be removed to get the alternator free wheel assembly out. The assembly is expensive... about $572. My generator drive dampers were not damaged... I don't see how they could get damaged as they are just pieces of rubber. FYI... it's not a single piece but 4 individual pieces that fit between the drive flange and the generator.

-Tarmac
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  #119  
Old 05-28-2012, 03:34 AM
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Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

I swapped out the washer , I was able to not have to remove the clutch it was rather easy once it was described on what would happen when the idler pin was removed.
I took a long pick and ran it into the clutch gear then onto the underside of the starter gear and also used a magnet to hold the gear.
I then took a piece of thick wire and put it into the shaft and then slid the shaft out,
Meanwhile holding the washer with a second stronger magnet.
Once the washer was out of the position i used the other magnet to turn it in the case thus it was able to slide out.
I then took my new washer and put some thick sticky grease on it and with the magnet i was able to move it into position and then use a bent pick to push it into final position then slide the shaft into position.
I also adjusted the oil pump chain it was very loose it was easy to push it into the metal portion of the case,
now it has about 8mm of movement and can just be pushed into the front side of the tensioner plastic.
A quick start and it it sounds quieter ,
so a road test to follow.
This operation took about 40 mins to complete
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 009.JPG (508.9 KB, 316 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 005.JPG (334.1 KB, 275 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 006.JPG (449.0 KB, 302 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 008.JPG (366.1 KB, 273 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 001.JPG (381.5 KB, 273 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 002.JPG (358.5 KB, 294 views)
File Type: jpg K1300S washer 003.JPG (378.2 KB, 290 views)
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  #120  
Old 05-28-2012, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philly, PA USA
Re: K1300S Noise, Rattle & Vibration

Well I got a chance to take a long ride today, the engine noise is gone, the engine runs quietly and is smooth no hiccups,
funny how a small washer can make so much noise in an engine.
Thanks Tarmac for taking the time to share your wisdom on fixing this issue
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