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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 03-31-2014, 05:46 AM
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Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Hello,

I saw a couple threads related to the K1300S stalling so I assume this has been a long run issue.. still not solved by BMW.

In short it happens when coasting or stopping the bike, always when the engine is hot.
Symptoms are erratic engine noises, inner guts bumping (as if a couple cylinders where on strike), idle mode going up and down, simple stalling. Even happen at highway cruising speed where is simply shut off when I pull the clutch lever to gear down.

This has been the case for more than a year (2011 model) with repair in Jan 2013, July 2013 and Feb 2014, paired with 3 scheduled maintenance during 2013 every 10.000km.

Needless to say that the issue has not been sorted out and that I'm pissed off as the bike is out of warranty now. Although as it started while still covered by the warranty, I am in tensed discussion with the Belgian branch of BMW to have them take their responsibility.

Last event in Feb 2014 brought something new in the problem, backfiring. This time I had to have the bike being towed back as I didn't want to ride it with a one meter flame trailing me :-(

So far they tried the following: Complete purge of the cooling system, electronics resetting, electrical wiring check.

Anyway, I was wondering if some good advice could come from fellow owners and what are the solutions out there.
I still believe the K1300S is a great bike and throwing it away is not a solution.

Non, what about this Power Commander device? Really recommended? If yes which one is to be considered?

As to illustrate my 'misery', here are a couple videos:

First video documented occurence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu7mF...p6JiZLmBZm19J8

Including pyrotechnic effects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdzl...=share&index=1

Last occurence a couple days ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLh6L...Zm19J8&index=2

Drive safe,
Christophe
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:55 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

my 2009 k1300s had a stalling issue but the issue was fixed with the first software upgrade. no issues with stalling since. i've heard good things about the power commander but i don't have any first hand experience.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:07 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

I would think Ignition timing is the culprit. Could be a crank position sensor or a defective ECM/software and/or it's wiring. Could be burned/non closing exhaust valve(s), but unlikely.

Being a pre existing condition, I would hope BMW takes care of this. I would also find a different dealer.

Good luck
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:29 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

I would say the erratic engine noises are caused by the clutch and or drive train as the engine is on the verge of stalling when you are in gear and is likely not an issue.

Can you tell is it real backfiring or unburned gasses exploding in your exhaust down stream of your SLS system injecting air into the exhaust stream? If the engine is cutting out you could get a lot of raw fuel in your exhaust, when it is mixed with fresh air from your SLS system and hits your red hot catalytic converter....bam.

If BMW kicks you out of the fraternity I would find a good independent BMW mechanic with a lot of experience, being in Europe my guess is that you should not have too much troube finding one.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:36 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Booster Plug (Denmark) or Accelerator(Belgium). I have the former and Beech has the latter. Same result: no stalling, better idle, better throttle response and even smoother shifting. Recommended to me and installed by a certified BMW Master Technician.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:45 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Hi Christophe, Is there a chance you got bad gasoline? Perhaps it is a fuel issue.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:17 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellcraft
my 2009 k1300s had a stalling issue but the issue was fixed with the first software upgrade. no issues with stalling since. i've heard good things about the power commander but i don't have any first hand experience.

They did a full reset during the third maintenance in November. Things seemed to go better until it started again in January. This is inconclusive as to know whether the reset or upgrade was effective. By the way I don't know if it was only a reset or if an upgrade was included. Will ask them.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:19 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by tward
I would think Ignition timing is the culprit. Could be a crank position sensor or a defective ECM/software and/or it's wiring. Could be burned/non closing exhaust valve(s), but unlikely.

Being a pre existing condition, I would hope BMW takes care of this. I would also find a different dealer.

Good luck

At the last repair they said it was the electrical ground wiring that was the issue. Again, went ok for a while then back to problems.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:23 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13Mike
I would say the erratic engine noises are caused by the clutch and or drive train as the engine is on the verge of stalling when you are in gear and is likely not an issue.

Can you tell is it real backfiring or unburned gasses exploding in your exhaust down stream of your SLS system injecting air into the exhaust stream? If the engine is cutting out you could get a lot of raw fuel in your exhaust, when it is mixed with fresh air from your SLS system and hits your red hot catalytic converter....bam.

If BMW kicks you out of the fraternity I would find a good independent BMW mechanic with a lot of experience, being in Europe my guess is that you should not have too much troube finding one.

It looks more like unburned gas as the video was shot while in neutral and just revving. No downshifting or cutting the throttle. Really felt like the engine is working on less than four cylinder (nasty clonks even felt physically beside the sad noise).

About BMW's responsibility, I'll keep reminding them that they have a role to play here. Or indeed going the independent road will be the only next step possible.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:27 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howkan
Booster Plug (Denmark) or Accelerator(Belgium). I have the former and Beech has the latter. Same result: no stalling, better idle, better throttle response and even smoother shifting. Recommended to me and installed by a certified BMW Master Technician.

Thanks will look at this. Only knew about the Power Commander module.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:30 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
Hi Christophe, Is there a chance you got bad gasoline? Perhaps it is a fuel issue.

Very unlikely, this happens over a year now, with travelling in France from North to South and Germany down to Garmisch-Partenkirchen from Brussels in Belgium. Cannot imagine that I would get bad gas in so many locations. Would be significantly more coincidental if the troubles always happened in the same area, or very sadly after tanking at the gas station close to home!
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:34 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

And finally, today's latest update!

It seems the stream of emails I sent about this finally kicked in and BMW just called today to schedule a appointment at the shop in 2 weeks. They said they'll open it :-( to investigate deeper.

A sign they are taking this seriously is that I'll be provided with a replacement bike free of charge.

More to come in a couple weeks I hope.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:39 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Mine did pretty much the same thing...software update fixed it....
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:48 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
This time I had to have the bike being towed back as I didn't want to ride it with a one meter flame trailing me :-(


You weren't kidding about the flamethrower! Good luck getting your issues resolved.
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:34 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

good luck and keep us updated.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:13 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by tward
I would think Ignition timing is the culprit. Could be a crank position sensor or a defective ECM/software and/or it's wiring.

Defective crank sensor is definitely a strong possibility!

Quote:
Could be burned/non closing exhaust valve(s), but unlikely.

More than "unlikely"..... impossible! Burned exhaust valves don't (and can't) exhibit these symptoms.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:46 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
Defective crank sensor is definitely a strong possibility!


More than "unlikely"..... impossible! Burned exhaust valves don't (and can't) exhibit these symptoms.


Sorry RFW, but here's a quote form http://www.ssch.com.au/trade-news/a-...valve-failure/
A burnt valve will cause issues with your vehicle’s performance and fuel consumption. Rough idle, reduced power, backfiring, and misfire are all symptoms of valve burn. If your engine is showing symptoms like these, we recommend you get your car checked by a trusted mechanic, as continual driving with a burnt valve will cause more damage to your engine, and will in turn cost more to repair in the long run. I can't vouch for the source, but with a quick google they showed up.

I would think that as long as there is enough compression combustion can take place.
I do not think that this is the bike's problem however.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:28 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

My K12R didn't do the pyrotechnic effects, unless I put the open exhaust...

It did stall though, and it sounded just like your engine.
Got specially bad on very hot days (95F about 35C). I've been told it's a sticky iddle valve, to which the only solution is an airbox update and a software update.

I've been also told that it could be the breather hoses. Never checked that.

Been told that these bikes run very lean to pass emissions (notice how idle is at 1,100 rpm, instead of 800-900rpm, BMW engineers couldn't run it that lean that slow).

People have fixed the fueling issue with PC3 and BoosterPlugs.

Me, I notice that this only happens to me when it's very very hot and/or humid.
Also, when I go revving the bike for no reason like a Harley rider. Then it stalls.
I fix it by turning the bike off, turning back on, and then I carry on and do not rev it for no reason...

My 2 cents..
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:08 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondrage
Got specially bad on very hot days (95F about 35C). I've been told it's a sticky iddle valve, to which the only solution is an airbox update and a software update.

I've been also told that it could be the breather hoses. Never checked that.

Interesting thoughts here. It indeed happens when the bike's engine is hot, never when starting with a cooled engine. And related to the ambient hotness, even if the bike stalls during winter, the situation became more evident during the summer.

Last July when I had to make an emergency repair they decided the problem originated in the cooling system. A full purge has been done and some cleaning of the radiator. Went better after but the problems came back of course.

Maybe I'm becoming paranoid (but hey after all we're talking about a bike here, and we're sensible to the matter), but I feel that the bikes temperature levels are climbing fast. Even on a totally average day around 18C (64F) I find that the fan kicks in quickly and the temp indicator is rapidly in the top section. Note that once riding out of the city the temp goes back to nominal.

Makes me wondering if this is not a very unlucky conjunction of injection/electronics on one side and cooling system failure on the other one. I'm sure the BMW mechanics will think of that next week when the bike goes again into the shop.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:17 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Update!

Just got the bike back yesterday. Went in on April 14th and released on May 8th. Had to be checked by some expert engineer from BMW. Got little details on what they actually did, but as I understood, they changed the injection's valves, some sensor and reset the electronics (once more). What I am sure is that they did more than 150km (93mi) of road testing.

Since yesterday evening, she's working seamlessly and I can't wait for the weekend to make a longer run. Hopefully the troubles are behind me.

Now what I don't get is why this problem took such a long time to be resolved and required four repair sessions and went through three regular scheduled maintenance. By the way they also did the 60000km (37300mi, don't know the interval for the maintenance in miles, in clicks it's every 10000) maintenance since it was in the shop!

Although the mechanic part is somehow resolved, I still have a topic on the table with BMW as a brand. I want them to take some kind of responsibility for the more than a year troubles and the apparent lack of genuine concern as a premium brand should do.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Hi Chris

I have now EXACTLY the same problem

I think is a double take of the American guys about stalling , now we rest of the world have the same issue No records for this problem in European , African, South american bikes...

Yesterday, last day of the 2 years warranty, I went to my dealer with the purpose of mark the record of the problem, but knowing they have not the immediate possibility to fix the issue. This let me to extend the warranty in this pointed problem.

They did the same things:
- Change the air filter,
- Read fails and recorded warnings (nothing, recorded, perfect bike! )
- Resets the computer, reload software, they said this happened in a couple of bikes, seems a corrupted software - unknown reason.

Symptoms:

- Easy to see in your (excellent!) videos.
- Erratic and Randomly fails.
- Happen wit all types and brands of fuels,
- This happen usually when you ride at speed, like open roads, with the engine only warm, then you enter in a town, the engine have more temperature, and starts the fail.
- Same as started, it goes again and the engine runs smooth as usual.
- Fail occurs at idle, and you need to reach 2000 RPM or more to keep running the engine.
- In high RPM the bike runs perfect, this discards many theories about valves, chain and others permanent damages in the engine
- The exhaust becomes black and you can touch the carbon, Before this problem the exhaust had a light grey color.
- As we can see in the videos, is the same as when in carburetor bikes you choke, also you can see the black smoke typical of choked engines.


My thoughts of the causes : Not valves, not chain, not QS, not air filter

Probabilities:
- Random fail of the some sensor, like Lamba sensor or Air box temperature.
- Also is possible a malfunction of the Butterfly valve (See Skapan thread ) , I heard the valve open in low RPM, IMO unusual, Now I investigate this.
- Exhaust: I'll change my home made exhaust install again the OEM one, to see differences and eliminate that possibility.

One thing I'm sure, almost impossible that the dealer find the issue, since is aleatory, and the response is: "works fine, is weird".

Chis: You bet I will find the solution, no matter the time, cost or effort . "Donkey no f@*k because is cute, but insistent"
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:45 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
Hi Chris

I have now EXACTLY the same problem
...

Hello Bernardo,

Sad that you have the same issue, but relieved that i'm not alone (don't take me wrong I'm really not happy about this, just feel less lost).

I'm looking forward to your findings.

In the meantime I will try to get as much info from the dealership where the repairs have been done. Will post whatever I can get.

Christophe
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:00 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
but relieved that i'm not alone (don't take me wrong I'm really not happy about this, just feel less lost).

Hey bud! you shoot farts in public?... me too!!

Nah... Chris, I understand you thought, and is good to search together (and others please!) this problem
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:59 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

The problem with mine was the crankshaft positioning sensor
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:17 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chulla10
The problem with mine was the crankshaft positioning sensor

With the same symptoms? Have they changed it and problem has disappeared?. Thanks...

Last edited by bernardo : 05-13-2014 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:32 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

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Originally Posted by bernardo
With the same symptoms? They have changed it and problem has disappeared?. Thanks...

Con exactamente los mismos síntomas

The tank gas tank was cleaned, fuel pump changed with no results. But when the cps was changed problem solved

Buena suerte
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:32 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

The problem....


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y3VOELPTtrw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:55 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

I had the same problem on my 2005 K1200S one of the first in the US, how bad it is, that almost 10 years later BMW could not fix it, that amazes me.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:31 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

In a couple days (weeks?) I am supposed to have the exact list of the fixes done by the BMW shop. I got the bike back a week ago and so far no sign of troubles. We'll see on the long run.
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Old 05-29-2014, 04:18 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Today's update:

9:00 Pickup Fiona from the dealer, the tech guy said:
- Reading ECU: no issues,
- Airbox + idle sensor: dirty, perhaps one loose hose
- They used the bike almost 150 Km, and they think is all ok.

- Riding in the town about 2 hs... better but the issue continues.

After an interesting chat with the tech and the boss, we agreed that next week I'll go again but they let me collaborate and work together over the bike . I think there are probabilities the cause are dirty throttle bodies. Common issue with the first US K1300S models (stalling ), then we'll remove the throttle bodies and spray it with Wurst throttle bodies cleaner.

Also they have one crankshaft positioning sensor in stock and will change it as suggested by Carlos (thanks!)

Fortunately these guys are very positive and interested to fix my issue.
For sure you will know the results

I'm 200 Km. far from dealer. in high RPM, Fiona flies
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:57 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Today's update

- Complete 30.000 Km. service, in order to eliminate variables and fail probabilities. (oil with filter, air filter, spark plugs, valves, cooling system... half a million dollar cost.
- Throttle bodies absolutely cleaned, looks like a new , with Wurst Throttle bodies cleaner spray. This point is important because many post in everywhere mention could be a stalling cause.
-Step by step throttle actuator checked and cleaned,

After that, riding 20 minutes, the problem continues ,

Today the bike still in dealer going to do
- Change throttle body actuator and switch, because one of the symptoms is high RPM idle when fails
- Change the crankshaft positioning sensor,
- Check the exhaust butterfly: servo and system.

As a personal comment: Always I have heard about "american" stalling problem, and I looked that as a far and weird problem, today I have the possibility to live the problem with the help of all of BMW equipment and techs, and the bunch of experience of many forum friends around the world, Isn't perfect?
For example I had the idea that:
- cleaning the throttle bodies fixes the issue . Is not the reason
- Bad fuel: may be, but here nobody had stalling and I rode almost 90.000 Km with the same fuels. IMO is not the reason

Next report coming soon !!
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:04 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Bernardo,

I can't report I fixed the stalling issue.

Stalling (how it's happened to me):
- When I go crazy and I start revving the engine at a traffic light. Sometimes it dies.

Surging
- When the weather changes and starts to get very humid and about to rain. The bike starts to surge.

Revving by itself at idle.
- This used to happen to me all the time. I used to turn the engine off and on, and it used to fix it. In the end not even this would fix it.
- When I replaced the mirrors and the grips, I noticed that the old grip was very sticky in the side that touches the flange.
- I put a washer between the throttle grip and the flange. The bike now revs a bit more crazy, as there's not mechanical damping to the throttle inputs, but no more high-revving at idle.

Hope this help.

In the end, you know the answer is: AF-XiED or BoosterPlug.
BMW-mothership hasn't fixed it. No way the dealer will. It's a software design problem. These things run lean. As to the self-revving, give my suggestion a shot. It's very easy.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:44 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Thanks Eyvind

I know about your past issues, I'll wait the dealer ends with all the checks and changes, is convenient for me ($) because is the last warranty service, if they not fix the problem (i really hope yes), you bet I will start with my own investigation .

I'm convinced must be a punctual cause, the bike worked perfectly without aftermarket solutions. I don't like to attack the effect (as BMW with the new last software changing the engine deceleration gradient) , I'll try to find the cause.

btw I think at this pňint is not a mechanical problem, at least throttle mechanism, works smooth and precise.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:55 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Today's Update

Crankshaft positioning sensor changed. the problem continues ,

Next week will try with exhaust:

- Change lambda sensor
- Change Butterfly mechanism.

Really a challenge. We'll see now. ...
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:28 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Final Report (I hope...)


Cause: Temperature air sensor (#9 - 13 62 17 39510 - see below), too much difference of reading compared with a new one (same as F800)

Now Fiona runs perfect, smooth and with the confidence all of movements, sensors and servos are clean and checked. I hope forever!

Thanks to the BMW Automunich Tech guys (Lamentably I can't say the same with the sales department )

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Old 06-18-2014, 09:08 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
Final Report (I hope...)
Cause: Temperature air sensor (#9 - 13 62 17 39510 - see below), too much difference of reading compared with a new one (same as F800)

Do you think this could be the heart of the problem?

On my end of the issue, I have gotten the bike back a some weeks ago now and have passed 1000 km "test runs" (yeah I know, not much but hey, I was on the West side of the Atlantic for a 10 days holiday!) without a flaw. So far Miss K is behaving as she should, no stalling and better yet, no pyrotechnics!

On the downside, I'm still waiting for the feedback from the shop about what they actually did to fix the problem.

Now a side note... The Belgian importer branch of BMW Motorrad is still considering the who will pay what question. From my point of view since this all started while she was still under warranty, the bill should be covered by BMW. They don't seem to see the same logic and I'm actually trying to get more details from the importer's reps directly, with little success communication-wise I have to admit.

So three points still on the to-do list:
1. Make sure the problem is really gone;
2. Get the exhaustive list of remedial actions (as this will be a great lessons learned that definitively is worth sharing with Beemers);
3. Finalize the responsibility subject and make sure that it's covered by warranty or at least ethical responsibility as I call it when talking to BMW's reps.

More to come...

By the way, Bernardo, you named yours Fiona. Any relation to Frank Gallagher? :-)
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:11 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

I had the same exact problem. Dealer had no solution. Traded the bike for another when I determined stalling out in some circumstances was challenging my life expectancy. BMW, are you listening ?
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:28 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatso
... I determined stalling out in some circumstances was challenging my life expectancy...

That's exactly what happened here. They started to take me seriously when I mentioned stalling on the highway. This was no joke anymore.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:38 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
.
Hi Chris

Quote:
Do you think this could be the heart of the problem?
I think yes, important is I had the opportunity to check every part with possibilities of fail, discarding many "perhaps" on the way, like dirty throttle bodies.
Pity the last intervention my tech guy changed 3 things because was easy, Throttle sensor, lambda sensor and temperature sensor, but the others didn't show any fail, so the most probable cause is the temperature sensor.

Most important we have now tips to check if stalling occurs!

Quote:
... The Belgian importer branch of BMW Motorrad is still considering the who will pay what question. From my point of view since this all started while she was still under warranty.
If the fail is in warranty, they must to fix the issue even if warranty expires. I reported this fail 1 week before the 2 years warranty, and zero cost. Same idea as factory recalls.
I think you must fight for that.

Quote:
By the way, Bernardo, you named yours Fiona. Any relation to Frank Gallagher? :-)
Nah....
Simple: Extremely sensual green fatty girl, like a Shrek Girlfriend...
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:00 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Stalling is one thing, flame throwing is something else!

Sure looks like an ignition problem with a lot of unburned fuel from somewhere. Any thoughts and swapping coils one at a time since this has been a problem in the past? The fact it happens with high heat means something is breaking down....

I would skip the PC or other add on gizmos and get someone to blow a new MAP in it!
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:15 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-K
Stalling is one thing, flame throwing is something else!

Hi Rick

In this case is the same cause because the engine when fail acts the same as the carburetor engines when you choke it, rough idle and black smoke, sometimes the black smoke becomes in a flame or an internal explosion inside the muffler

Personally I think this fail (at least in my case) is not an ignition problem.

Quote:
I would skip the PC or other add on gizmos and get someone to blow a new MAP in it!
You're right, but with that you attack the consequence, not the cause, is the same solution adopted by BMW when they modified the software to change the way to accelerate the engine from 2000 to 1000 RPM, no more stalling but the cause is still there.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Forgot to put the latest video shot before the last repair session at the shop. Self explanatory :-(

http://youtu.be/YK688sDdCnQ
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:23 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
Forgot to put the latest video shot before the last repair session at the shop. Self explanatory :-(

http://youtu.be/YK688sDdCnQ

Yes, is the same fail, only I don't have flames because the home made exhaust modification, it has a perforated panel that work as firewall
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:37 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quick update.

Now that I got the bike back and did close to 5000 km since the problem has been solved, I can say that I'm out of misery.

No more stalling, backfire and other annoying (and dangerous) behaviors. From a discussion with the mechanic, it appears that they mainly had to change the injection valves sensor/controller, not sure which exact piece it is and could not get a part number. Gonna ask again.

So far so good, Miss K is working at optimum performance and that feels so good! :-)
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:16 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

I got back my bike from the workshop yesterday, and took it for a quick spin It runs better than ever before. It is too early to say if the fix is permanent yet, but somehow, I have a good feeling about this. They found that the Trottle Valve Switch was broken and replaced it with a new one.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:31 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Might be a language distinction but I have the feeling that what you call the Trottle Valve Switch and me the injection valves sensor/controller are actually the same part. We should investigate further and get a part number to clarify this.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:07 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Absolutely, we should! The part they changed on my bike is working together with another part they call a Trottle Positioning Sensor. They first told me that they had to change that part, but when I collected the bike, they had changed the other part instead.

I think there are a number of sensors and switches working together in this complicated fuel system, so it might not be the same remedy for ever bike with similar symptoms.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:20 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerLeiv
I think there are a number of sensors and switches working together in this complicated fuel system, so it might not be the same remedy for ever bike with similar symptoms.
Hi Liev

You're right, is complicated and impossible to know if you don't have the parts to check and/or replace, adding the BMW computer.

Is what the dealer did with my bike as you can read above.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:23 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

OK, just got the info from the dealership. The part replaced is the Throttle Valve Switch, part number 13 54 7 696 412.

Since the fix all is going well.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:16 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
OK, just got the info from the dealership. The part replaced is the Throttle Valve Switch, part number 13 54 7 696 412.

Since the fix all is going well.

Hope this helps.

BMW Parts-fiche make things complicated with nonsense description - probably caused by German to English translation.

In this case, the part that you gave is a TPS (Throttle-Position-Sensor) this term is widely accepted in automotive industry when talking about EFI system. It measures the percent opening of throttle and is located at end of shaft. It is just a fairly simple potentiometer with one or 2 tracks of varying resistance values depending on throttle opening.

So it is NOT a "switch" in the sense that it does not measure ON-OFF.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:26 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor
BMW Parts-fiche make things complicated with nonsense description - probably caused by German to English translation.

In this case, the part that you gave is a TPS (Throttle-Position-Sensor) this term is widely accepted in automotive industry when talking about EFI system. It measures the percent opening of throttle and is located at end of shaft. It is just a fairly simple potentiometer with one or 2 tracks of varying resistance values depending on throttle opening.

So it is NOT a "switch" in the sense that it does not measure ON-OFF.

You're right, thanks. According to the mechanic who mentioned it, it is indeed the sensor that checks the opening of the valves. His conclusion was that the sensor gave wrong values compared to the actual state of the throttle.

Thanks to correct this.
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:43 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor

So it is NOT a "switch" in the sense that it does not measure ON-OFF.

Is potentiometer, but is a switch

Is a potentiometer because the part mention 4K Ohm,
Is a switch because BMW says This is a switch!
Is made of gold because cost $ 175

In fact, is a potentiometer

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Old 08-11-2014, 10:20 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Im glad all this got resolved.

Thank all of you who had the issues for updating the post with resolution.

Bill
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:20 AM
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Stalling problem resolved

I got confirmed from the workshop now that the part number for the Trottle Valve Switch is 13547696412, so it must be the same part. I have tested the bike myself now for some time, both on a race track and on the road, also on hot days. It is no more stalling under any conditions anymore, so I think I can say that the problem is resolved
Trottle Valve Switch, it was
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:47 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Great news! :-)

Now lets hope that BMW documents this property to get back to the case quickly if this happens again to another unfortunate rider.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:09 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
The problem....


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y3VOELPTtrw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why is the yellow light on?
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:15 AM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

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Originally Posted by ZATO
Why is the yellow light on?

I was low on gas. If you check the tank level indicator, it's at the minimum, no worries there.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:13 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyRide
I was low on gas. If you check the tank level indicator, it's at the minimum, no worries there.

All the money spent in my trip and no leftover for fuel !
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:47 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

LOL! The day I resolved my BRAKE FAILURE issue and drove down the driveway with NO LIGHTS on the Instrument Console , approx 45 seconds later the LOW FUEL warning light came on. OH GREAT,, What Now????

I know the feeling! LOL

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Old 09-23-2014, 05:43 PM
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Re: Choking and stalling when coasting, now with backfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
Hi Chris

I have now EXACTLY the same problem

I think is a double take of the American guys about stalling , now we rest of the world have the same issue No records for this problem in European , African, South american bikes...

Yesterday, last day of the 2 years warranty, I went to my dealer with the purpose of mark the record of the problem, but knowing they have not the immediate possibility to fix the issue. This let me to extend the warranty in this pointed problem.

They did the same things:
- Change the air filter,
- Read fails and recorded warnings (nothing, recorded, perfect bike! )
- Resets the computer, reload software, they said this happened in a couple of bikes, seems a corrupted software - unknown reason.

Symptoms:

- Easy to see in your (excellent!) videos.
- Erratic and Randomly fails.
- Happen wit all types and brands of fuels,
- This happen usually when you ride at speed, like open roads, with the engine only warm, then you enter in a town, the engine have more temperature, and starts the fail.
- Same as started, it goes again and the engine runs smooth as usual.
- Fail occurs at idle, and you need to reach 2000 RPM or more to keep running the engine.
- In high RPM the bike runs perfect, this discards many theories about valves, chain and others permanent damages in the engine
- The exhaust becomes black and you can touch the carbon, Before this problem the exhaust had a light grey color.
- As we can see in the videos, is the same as when in carburetor bikes you choke, also you can see the black smoke typical of choked engines.


My thoughts of the causes : Not valves, not chain, not QS, not air filter

Probabilities:
- Random fail of the some sensor, like Lamba sensor or Air box temperature.
- Also is possible a malfunction of the Butterfly valve (See Skapan thread ) , I heard the valve open in low RPM, IMO unusual, Now I investigate this.
- Exhaust: I'll change my home made exhaust install again the OEM one, to see differences and eliminate that possibility.

One thing I'm sure, almost impossible that the dealer find the issue, since is aleatory, and the response is: "works fine, is weird".

Chis: You bet I will find the solution, no matter the time, cost or effort . "Donkey no f@*k because is cute, but insistent"

Thank you for this posting and you insight Sir.. Just to let you know- I ride a K1200S in South Africa. Personally I have not experienced the "stalling issue" nor have I encountered unburnt fuel firing out my exhaust, however- I have a "sputter" at a RPM range between 2000 to 3000. This only occurs when the bike is at operating temp, another symptom that has cropped up (infrequently), it feels like the butterflies are open at a gnats ball hair- as when I perform a "blip" the RPM is constant for like 0.5sec and then drops down. I have noticed a increase in fuel consumption- avg consumption per tank in town riding conditions (before this "sputter") was 270- 290Km per tank, this has now decreased to 190- 220Km per tank.

At first I suspected bad fuel, but injector cleaner did not remedy the problem.

I prefer a BMW to any Jap bike, the "racing" mentality does not seem to suit a Hyper tourer such as the K-S'es, to me these sounds and sputters tends to go down like a turd sandwich in my opinion..

I shall ask my technician to perform a software upgrade and check the sensor positioning on my next service..

I do however have a question too- Can this cause failure and engine damage
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