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  #1  
Old 06-22-2015, 09:44 AM
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What Happened to BMW Quality?

I bought a 2007 K12GT with 36K miles a couple weeks ago. The bike looks showroom new without a single blemish. Beauty is only skin deep, however. On day 2 the front brake pad sensor failed. On day 5 the ABS pump failed.



The dealer who sold me the bike completed a 36K service before I took delivery. When I told them about the problems they were surprised.

I repaired the brake pad sensor. The wire leading to the caliper was broken by a zip tie some gorilla over tightened at the factory. The dealer offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,500. I've read about stuck brushes in the ABS pump motor. I could do the repair myself, but I've decided to sell (dump) the bike and buy something else. I just don't trust the K12GT, fearing the next problem will leave me stranded at roadside.

I asked the dealer if they would accept the bike in trade for something else, but they don't want it until the ABS is repaired. I don't blame them.

I've owned several BMWs over the years, the newest was a 2003. I never had a single problem. What happened to BMW quality?
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2015, 09:47 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Went away when they stopped making 65 hp boxer bikes.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2015, 09:54 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
but I've decided to sell (dump) the bike and buy something else. I just don't trust the K12GT, fearing the next problem will leave me stranded at roadside.

Actually, you should have the "reliable" brakes... so, dunno what tho say... (non-wheezy brakes, right?) MM should fix your pump for $250. So give that a thought before you sell the bike.
When they work, there's nothing like those bikes, they are outstanding.
And if you add the riser plates, that bike is just a blast...
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----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

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  #4  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:35 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondrage
Actually, you should have the "reliable" brakes... so, dunno what tho say... (non-wheezy brakes, right?) MM should fix your pump for $250. So give that a thought before you sell the bike.
When they work, there's nothing like those bikes, they are outstanding.
And if you add the riser plates, that bike is just a blast...


Don't know what you mean by "reliable" brakes. The front works great. The rear requires quite a bit of pressure on the pedal. They feel like wooden blocks. This might be related to the ABS pump.

I'm familiar with MM.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:41 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

What I meant was that the iABS with the servos, do have a higher failure rate than the iABSII (Teves) non-servo brakes.

The non-servo brakes can be fixed by MM, the servo-brakes not.
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BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2015, 12:38 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
I bought a 2007 K12GT with 36K miles a couple weeks ago..... but I've decided to sell (dump) the bike and buy something else. ...
Then why post here? Module Masters in Moscow Idaho will repair the ABS module for 250 dollars plus shipping, and it includes a 5 year warranty. Fix it and you have a bike that will last another 100,000 miles easy.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2015, 12:47 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Wasn't there an issue with the spring on the rear brake binding around that year?

Personally, I'd be more concerned about making sure the engine has the cam chain jump guard installed, did the dealer verify that?

P.S. Nice looking bike!
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2015, 01:03 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Ya know, while I'm sympathetic to anyone having issues with their machine, what I have real consternation over is generalizations (i.e. “What happened to BMW quality.”) based on “look what happened to me today.” Unfortunately, while these forums are a great way to share information, they also serve as a springboard to grind an often imaginary axe, by magnifying a few similar problems with a particular model, or brand…BMW or any other. I get it…you’re mad, I get it…you’re frustrated, I get it…$1,500 is a nice chunk of change. What I don’t get is glittering generalities based on your, or a few other, similar issues experienced by other riders; not when factoring in the thousands of other K1200GTs rolling down the road with no issues. That said, this isn't that to say that there haven’t been other proven build quality trends that have emerged over the years, a couple recently. But every breakdown doesn’t equal a systemic quality issue with BMW, or any other brand.
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78 Toyota FJ40
08 MB CLK63 AMG Black Series

14 K1300S 30Yr (gone)
07 K1200S Blue/Silver/Black (Gone...again)
07 K1200S Blue/Silver/Black (Gone)
03 K1200GT (Gone)
03 Porsche 911 Turbo (Gone)
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2015, 01:25 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTr
Ya know, while I'm sympathetic to anyone having issues with their machine, what I have real consternation over is generalizations (i.e. “What happened to BMW quality.”) based on “look what happened to me today.” Unfortunately, while these forums are a great way to share information, they also serve as a springboard to grind an often imaginary axe, by magnifying a few similar problems with a particular model, or brand…BMW or any other. I get it…you’re mad, I get it…you’re frustrated, I get it…$1,500 is a nice chunk of change. What I don’t get is glittering generalities based on your, or a few other, similar issues experienced by other riders; not when factoring in the thousands of other K1200GTs rolling down the road with no issues. That said, this isn't that to say that there haven’t been other proven build quality trends that have emerged over the years, a couple recently. But every breakdown doesn’t equal a systemic quality issue with BMW, or any other brand.

Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2015, 01:41 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.

Hahahahaha!

I'm with you BikerG.
I won't get started, but like CabnFvr said, look into MM to fix the ABS.
2007 the ABS was improved, as well as many other issues. Do check the jump guard, that should be a recall, and it's very simple to check.
Once you fix the ABS, that bike has many issues sorted.

I'll tell you, if reliability is what you want, those families of bikes are not what you're looking for. Those bikes are raw power. And power has a cost.

Reliability, and I say this cautiously, and trying not to injure anybody, could be better looked in the boxer machines.
Something breaks and they're dead simple to work on, and there are plenty of used spares.

Anyways, I do wish you the best, and I do get your point.

Other marques are no better in reliability, perhaps HD (but would you want that????).

So, stick to what you enjoy, and BMW is a good brand.

I'm past complaining now, I'm just trying to enjoy.

Cheers!
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----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

-----------------------------------------------------
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2015, 02:10 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.

Geee...didn't mean to strike a nerve, or even to take the moral high ground While I respect your opinion, I clearly don't agree with your sweeping conclusion based on what..."I've been riding BMWs since the 70s"?? Understand your frustration and hope you find a brand you feel you can rely on...happy riding
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15 R1200GS Adventure (don't be hatin')
78 Toyota FJ40
08 MB CLK63 AMG Black Series

14 K1300S 30Yr (gone)
07 K1200S Blue/Silver/Black (Gone...again)
07 K1200S Blue/Silver/Black (Gone)
03 K1200GT (Gone)
03 Porsche 911 Turbo (Gone)
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2015, 02:41 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.

I too have been riding BMW since the 70's. 76 R90s was my first. It was fine, until it was totaled at 2 years old. Replacement 78 R100RS suffered a rod bearing going out on a trip that led to a crankshaft replacement on vacation. A few months later the crank failed again, probably due to some debris getting in a oil supply hole. Had that bike 5 years, though it was down for 2 of them with various engine failures. Replaced it with a nice 83 R100RS that was totaled after 2 years. Then got 2 85 K100RS's, one of which was totaled at 2 years... The other I still have, and it's now 30 years old with just under 40k miles on it. On that bike I've had to replace the gearbox (popped out of 2nd gear), hall effect sensor, two fuel pumps, and a whole lot of plastic bits that fell apart due to age after sitting 10 years.

Now I have a 2015 K1300s, and I'm kind of dreading repair bills when I get around 20K miles on it. Only 5k so far, with no failures or real problems. Hot start 'issue' is kind of minor, but annoying.

Lots of parts to fail on these high-powered, complex beasts. Price of performance, I guess.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2015, 04:37 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. .

I don't miss my 1984 R100RT. Seems like every time you went around the block you had to tinker with it to keep it running right.
In the 4 years I owned it the heads had to be redone two times, and when I traded it in with 65,000 miles the valves needed reworked a third time.
I also had to have the splines rebuilt on the final drive.
Carburetor diaphragms and floats had to be replaced at least once and a long list of minor problems.
I don't miss the good old days.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2015, 06:52 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.

Having had an FD failure in the past (2006), I would be very interested to know details of this NHTSA investigation you became aware of. I'm unable to find it on their website. I also had the rear brake ABS module fail on my 2008 RT, however ModuleMasters repaired it at a very reasonable cost and in very short order.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2015, 08:41 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74mach
Having had an FD failure in the past (2006), I would be very interested to know details of this NHTSA investigation you became aware of. I'm unable to find it on their website. I also had the rear brake ABS module fail on my 2008 RT, however ModuleMasters repaired it at a very reasonable cost and in very short order.

http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/2...FinalDrive.pdf
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2015, 07:13 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting that. I was quite amazed that the later EVO Paralever final drive, as on your 2007, was never recalled. Someone even ran a website to catalog the failures. Some design changes were made around that production year, and reliability was seemingly improved.

I really hope you're able to get things sorted quickly. That is a beautiful bike, and should be a thing of pride to own. Best of luck.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2015, 07:56 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

As an addendum to my original reply I will add some sympathy. I gave up on BMW in 1989 due to the vibration issues of the 1985 K100RS (some did, some didn't. Mine wanted a job a Sherwin-Williams), and coming back to BMW in 1991 mainly due to the BMW club rallies, I am now at a point where maybe the bikes need this or that, but overall I know they will get fixed and also I know that if I want to I can keep them running forever. So far I've always traded before forever gets here.

But in 2002 I had had it. See attached. Funny thing is that when riding the bikes I loved them. So except for 1989-91 nothing else has clicked (except for the Ducati I should have kept. That paid for bike ate 150 a month in maintenance, and at only 6000 miles a year.) And the K1200S, it was beyond good until I got to the point my body doesn't fold as good as it once did. So I miss the K75s, and the Duc, and the K1200S, but I don't feel that way about the Kawasaki's or Yamaha. I can't logically explain that so I won't try. So anyhow, heres my rant when I was fed up with trying to get the 2002 K1200RS luggage and seat to work for us. (Another bike that we eventually loved, BTW.)
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2015, 08:13 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Tim, funny stuff. I like the statement, "Once upon a time there was a motorcycle company that produced the best sport touring motorcycles in this sector of the galaxy. BMW."
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2015, 08:47 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

The question is.... Tell me about a Motorcycle company that makes better motorcycles than BMW

Yes, they have problems but I don't know a brand without issues or problems or recalls.

Our motorcycles are produced with the best quality standards, with the same norms and criteria as cars production, with the similar last generation machines.
Adding this, at least here, BMW take cares about problems even out of warranty.

Yes I had serious problems, and one time she let me in the middle of the nothing, but, if I have now the choice to stay in BMW or change to another brand, I decide to stay with BMW

I had some issues with the dealer but never with the factory or BMW people

As a mechanics lover, I enjoy everyday just to see how the bike was made, with a lot of fine details, and I don't talk about fashion ones. Just look the final drive, the forged parts of the front suspension, the aluminium steering bridge, the delicate finishing of the engine block.

About riding, always I feel confidence when ride, never was crossed in my mind a fail that could end in an accident as consequence of malfunction, materials or bad assembly.
Also I know many problems caused by the users like overtight, aftermarket cheap parts/lubricants or simply a bad mechanics, logically we always analyze the effect, not the cause.

This reflexion comes to me after 17 motorcycles, and second BMW
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2015, 09:20 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
The question is.... Tell me about a Motorcycle company that makes better motorcycles than BMW

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...e-reliability/
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  #21  
Old 06-23-2015, 09:41 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG

A useless report, no mileage figures. Mean time between failure info is a good measure of durability.

Interesting though, of my three BMW, the one which I was most anxious about for failure never let me down, the K1200S went 57,000 miles without issues. The clutch made a lot of noise but never failed.
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2015, 09:42 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
And now we start a bizantine discussion about this is the best and that is the best

Is just my opinion, based in my experience or knowledge, no doubt there are thousand of different point of view, luckily.

I don't try to generate great discussions about brands, just reply a title " What Happened to BMW Quality" , not about BMW reliability, is another subject in another thread.

Another interesting point in Asphaltrubber article linked : contradictory, isn't it ?

While Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha may be winning the minds of riders with their production prowess, they are losing the hearts of consumers, which is interesting since any salesman will tell you it is easier to keep a current customer, than to make a new one.
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  #23  
Old 06-23-2015, 10:44 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

So who is this dealer that sold you a used bike that did not have AT LEAST a 30-Day warranty? IMHO, doesn't sound like a very good deal to me...
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Old 06-23-2015, 11:39 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Sorry to hear about this error with the ABS pump and the brake -- this mess should be cleaned up by the Dealership!! If there's a BMW quality problem here - it's a dealership quality problem to me....

I would call the offices of BMW North America and at least register a complaint about the Dealership if they're not willing to really help you out - $1.5K is BS to me and would make me change Dealers --- not bikes....

I'd suggest you fix the bike - it's worth less money in it's current state. Dang it man, get it running and spend some time on it -- we all have to sort through stuff with new machines -- you're in the same boat with whatever you replace it with!!

I just replaced the clutch basket in my '07 GT -- this is one of the best bikes I've EVER owned - I love it and hope you find same.....
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Old 06-23-2015, 11:56 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

It may have been a consignment sale RCU,I am not sure if warranty applies.
One of the attractions for me of the 2000's KRS and KGT and the R series was they were beautiful machines and the added bonus was they were wonderful bikes to ride.Am a member of a club that has a rider that three years ago had a 09 Concour with over 150k kms done on FarRides and Iron Butt rides and never opened up ,so I sold a KRS and bought one on its reputation.I did not last more than a month or so before an 06 KGT was irresistible ,then and a month ago an 06 R1200S.The Concour has done 63k kms trouble free and my colleague has done 280k kms !, and just replaced front fork seals etc. But I still prefer the Beemers still for their appearance and pure riding joy.
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2015, 12:03 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNJ1300
So who is this dealer that sold you a used bike that did not have AT LEAST a 30-Day warranty? IMHO, doesn't sound like a very good deal to me...

I'd rather not mention the dealer's name. I've had a good relationship with them over the years. And besides...many dealers sell used bikes as is with no warranty. Nothing new. Whether or not it's a good deal is up to the buyer.

I came to an agreement with the dealer today. They offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,200, including parts and labor. I agreed to move forward. I mentioned Module Masters. The dealer cautioned me about rebuilt or used parts. Also, since they waived the labor charge in my repair, I would be on my own if a rebuilt part failed.
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:50 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
I'd rather not mention the dealer's name. I've had a good relationship with them over the years. And besides...many dealers sell used bikes as is with no warranty. Nothing new. Whether or not it's a good deal is up to the buyer.

I came to an agreement with the dealer today. They offered to install a new ABS pump for $1,200, including parts and labor. I agreed to move forward. I mentioned Module Masters. The dealer cautioned me about rebuilt or used parts. Also, since they waived the labor charge in my repair, I would be on my own if a rebuilt part failed.


I'm glad to hear you got to a workable solution with the dealer and will get a new part -- my biggest complaint about this bike is the gas gauge strip; however, I've been told that this failure appears to be confined to California and the fuel additives here..... Hmmmm, maybe google will build a self driving motorcycle!
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:08 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Spare me the self-righteous bull crap. Perhaps you're new to the marque. I've been riding BMWs since the 70s. Trust me, the bikes aren't what they used to be. The NHSTA has opened an investigation into final drive failures. Harley surpasses BMW in owner satisfaction. I could go on.

Harley 'owner satisfaction' I believe is much more a factor of brand loyalty than actual satisfaction..... Most of the old hard-core bikers I know still have a soft-spot for Harley's and reverence for their old Harley's (shovel, EVO .etc) but have a another brand in the garage as they've been priced out of the replacement market.... Besides, if these posers complained about the bike, they'd have to get rid of their entire wardrobe too!
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:39 PM
RCU2WYO RCU2WYO is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe
It may have been a consignment sale RCU,I am not sure if warranty applies.
One of the attractions for me of the 2000's KRS and KGT and the R series was they were beautiful machines and the added bonus was they were wonderful bikes to ride.Am a member of a club that has a rider that three years ago had a 09 Concour with over 150k kms done on FarRides and Iron Butt rides and never opened up ,so I sold a KRS and bought one on its reputation.I did not last more than a month or so before an 06 KGT was irresistible ,then and a month ago an 06 R1200S.The Concour has done 63k kms trouble free and my colleague has done 280k kms !, and just replaced front fork seals etc. But I still prefer the Beemers still for their appearance and pure riding joy.

Good point - hadn't considered the consignment orientation; yet, I'm glad to see that they did bend and help out with the labor .etc on the new part.... Still, $1.2k without warning is low punch - we'd all be angry in the same position.....
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2015, 03:14 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

I'll give you $500 dollars for that piece of shit. If you try to sell it for more, you are putting somebody's life in jeopardy and you don't want to do that.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:13 PM
RCU2WYO RCU2WYO is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Hahahaha - that's what I was thinking.....
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:52 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
And besides...many dealers sell used bikes as is with no warranty. Nothing new.
Nothing new, but still bad business. They can't provide a full warranty of course but 30 days, 10 days, something... the vehicle was sold to you as working and refusing to cover a failure right off the lot isn't very honest.
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2015, 06:07 PM
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FastEddieb FastEddieb is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
I've owned several BMWs over the years, the newest was a 2003. I never had a single problem. What happened to BMW quality?

Since about 1967, BMW's I've owned:

R27 (x2)
R50/2
R75/5
R60/2
R80RT
R60/2 w/Velorex sidecar
R100GS/PD
K1100LT w/EML sidecar

Currently owned:

1999 K1200RS
1998 K1200RS w/EZS sidecar

None was nor is perfect. The old airheads win for simplicity, but have their own issues. My '99 K1200RS is probably tops on reliability, with only two significant repairs in 16 years and 82,000 miles.

About a month ago I rode with a friend to the new BMW dealer in Alcoa, TN.

Not dissing anyone's choices of ride, but nothing in the lineup does it for me. The RNineT comes closest, but would do nothing for me that my little Buell Firebolt doesn't.

For the most part the currently lineup just seems too complicated - even the switchgear puts me off, especially knowing BMW's history on those. Things like ESA and shift assist and adaptive headlights just take the bikes out of the basic, tinkering class that my K1200RS's are pushing right to the limit as it is.

A couple weeks ago I went to an Airhead rally in NC. I was reminded what a great sport touring bike the K1200RS is.







With new tires and the Ohlins dialed in just so, K RAPIDO still feels like the all-of-one-piece, low-flying-cruise-missle it always has.

If I ever felt the need for a "new" bike, if it was a BMW it would likely be another well-preserved K1200RS or maybe even an airhead. Otherwise, no thanks.

But That's Just Me™!
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:27 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

So BMW does not stand by used bikes they sell? No warranty of any type? sounds fishy to me.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:52 AM
74mach 74mach is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Keep in mind that he didn't buy the bike from BMW, he bought an 8-year-old bike from a BMW dealer. The factory warranty had expired five years prior to the sale. However, it looks like they've come to a reasonable agreement on repair.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:31 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74mach
Keep in mind that he didn't buy the bike from BMW, he bought an 8-year-old bike from a BMW dealer. The factory warranty had expired five years prior to the sale. However, it looks like they've come to a reasonable agreement on repair.
Guess your right any used bike a dealer sells has no warranty what so ever once the factory warranty expires, Damn thought they gave at least a 30 day one.
From what i can tell they take in a bike at trade look it over and list issues they find and only repair those things that make it road legal all else is listed but not necessarily repaired but buyer has the option to pay for those repairs "Estimated cost of repair of major issues" as documented in the sales agreement but they do wash it.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:55 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAK04GT
Guess your right any used bike a dealer sells has no warranty what so ever once the factory warranty expires, Damn thought they gave at least a 30 day one.
From what i can tell they take in a bike at trade look it over and list issues they find and only repair those things that make it road legal all else is listed but not necessarily repaired but buyer has the option to pay for those repairs "Estimated cost of repair of major issues" as documented in the sales agreement but they do wash it.

That's how it works. BMW dealers aren't Car Max.

I sold Hondas during my college years. The shop I worked in inspected used bikes, making sure they start, stop, have good tires and working lights. In some cases, they'd do a tune up. This was usually done in instances where they could do the work and price the bike with a good margin.

If a bike is eligible, some dealers will offer an extended warranty. Otherwise, the buyer is on his own, the same way he is with private sellers.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:00 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

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Originally Posted by justjoe
I'll give you $500 dollars for that piece of shit. If you try to sell it for more, you are putting somebody's life in jeopardy and you don't want to do that.

So your life is worth only $500, huh?
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:07 PM
mondrage mondrage is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
So your life is worth only $500, huh?

Hahahahaha! Brilliant comeback. Stay classy.
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BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:32 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEddieb
If I ever felt the need for a "new" bike, if it was a BMW it would likely be another well-preserved K1200RS or maybe even an airhead. Otherwise, no thanks.

Nice looking brick. Here's a photo of a 1999 "taxi" I used to ride.

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Old 06-24-2015, 12:37 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
So your life is worth only $500, huh?
If JJ offers you a hug to make up, just don't do it.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:03 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
So your life is worth only $500, huh?

Sure. Is it a deal then? I'll come pick it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabnfvr
If JJ offers you a hug to make up, just don't do it.

Hey, I don't ruin your surprises!
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  #43  
Old 06-30-2015, 09:33 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

My woes continue....During a ride this weekend my clutch started squealing during take off in first gear. From what I've gathered the problem has something to do with the clutch basket not getting oiled correctly. I don't plan to fix the problem.

Here's a summary of my ownership:
Week 1: Brake pad sensor wire fails
Week 2: ABS module fails
Week 3: Clutch starts squealing

I can't take it anymore. My next ride will be a one-way trip to the dealer to trade in the bike.
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  #44  
Old 06-30-2015, 09:37 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Actually, that happens because the clutc pack creates some grooves on the clutch basket.
So, when the grooves are too large, the clutch does not actually completely release. Dragging the clutch and making that noise.

Possible fixes:
- get a newer gen clutch basket. Check for recalls.
- file the grooves...
__________________
----------------------------------------------------
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BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
BMW K1200S 2007 (in my stable, we'll see)

-----------------------------------------------------
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  #45  
Old 06-30-2015, 01:09 PM
RCU2WYO RCU2WYO is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

DANGIT - I hate hearing this news about this bike -- now the clutch.... I'm still in the camp that the DEALER needs to check these machines out THOROUGHLY and provide a warranty so that new owners don't get stuck with a problem....

I still think this is a fundamental problem with the handling of used equipment through a dealership - I'm expecting more from a dealership than I would through a straight purchase from the owner. I say that because - I'm spending MORE money (taxes, KBB retail .etc) and they are in the business of ownership transference -- they can handle this and a GOOD dealership should -- hell, I know I could handle it.....

Maybe, I should be a dealer.... If so, I would have a base fee for consignment and a correction clause with a 30/60/90 day lemon insurance policy for anything that falls outside of the pre-sale maintenance....

I'm really sorry to hear you're having such a rough go with what really should be a great experience, Biker G....
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  #46  
Old 06-30-2015, 07:39 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

From what I see BMW Corporate found the very essence of Quality ,refined it to its purest form, found the ultimate packaging carefully placed it in the tool pouch .......then deleted the tool pouch from the new bikes on a cost cutting initiative
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:23 PM
moymurfs moymurfs is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCU2WYO
DANGIT - I hate hearing this news about this bike -- now the clutch.... I'm still in the camp that the DEALER needs to check these machines out THOROUGHLY and provide a warranty so that new owners don't get stuck with a problem....

I still think this is a fundamental problem with the handling of used equipment through a dealership - I'm expecting more from a dealership than I would through a straight purchase from the owner. I say that because - I'm spending MORE money (taxes, KBB retail .etc) and they are in the business of ownership transference -- they can handle this and a GOOD dealership should -- hell, I know I could handle it.....

Maybe, I should be a dealer.... If so, I would have a base fee for consignment and a correction clause with a 30/60/90 day lemon insurance policy for anything that falls outside of the pre-sale maintenance....

I'm really sorry to hear you're having such a rough go with what really should be a great experience, Biker G....


The reason you are paying retail is so that dealer can pay his rent and keep lights on
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  #48  
Old 07-01-2015, 07:07 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
My woes continue....During a ride this weekend my clutch started squealing during take off in first gear. From what I've gathered the problem has something to do with the clutch basket not getting oiled correctly. I don't plan to fix the problem.

Here's a summary of my ownership:
Week 1: Brake pad sensor wire fails
Week 2: ABS module fails
Week 3: Clutch starts squealing

I can't take it anymore. My next ride will be a one-way trip to the dealer to trade in the bike.

so now you know why the previous owner traded the bike in, i never liked purchasing used cars or bikes because you never know what problems will manifest themselves after you lay your cash on the table.
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  #49  
Old 07-01-2015, 09:59 AM
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JER K13S JER K13S is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

The recall issues involving the K13 appear to be a source of frustration among a minority of owners who have experienced a breakdown (or two) "before" BMW came to the table with a resolution.
IMO for every BMW out there with a problem (or two), there are probably twenty or more with no issues whatsoever . . .,
I have owned a 2010 K13S since new and other than a single burned out lightbulb, my experience has been ABSOLUTELY trouble free. And, even those pesky recalls were performed preemptively at no expense to me during the normal scheduled service interval.
Unfortunately, with many great machines, the path to perfection has been evolutionary . . ., and IMO, the K13 has reached that pinnacle.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:03 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JER K13S
Unfortunately, with many great machines, the path to perfection has been evolutionary . . ., and IMO, the K13 has reached that pinnacle.

Don't doubt you, but I'm jaded. There's no way I'll buy another BMW with a slant 4 mill.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:16 AM
moymurfs moymurfs is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JER K13S
IMO for every BMW out there with a problem (or two), there are probably twenty or more with no issues whatsoever . . .,

Well no kidding, that can be said for any company STILL making anything.

The op got burned x3 by a model in that "evolution" that is plagued with issues. I'll call them "growing pains". Some are from design others from supplied materials. I have no doubt that IF you could take the entire 2nd gen k12gt population only, and had a way to accurately find out what has needed attention, whether done by a dealer or private party, the results would be pretty eye opening........ and not favorable to the BMW marque. Probably a front runner for a model BMW wishes they could travel back in time for.
It's similar to the saying about crashing...There are those of us who have crashed and those of us that will. There are those 12gts that have had issues and those that still will.
12gt owners were just expecting a lot better than what we were given with this model.

I think it's awesome that you have a model you can honestly recommend.....we don't.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:28 PM
mondrage mondrage is offline
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerG
Don't doubt you, but I'm jaded. There's no way I'll buy another BMW with a slant 4 mill.

... and you would be doing the right thing.
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BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:24 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondrage
Actually, that happens because the clutc pack creates some grooves on the clutch basket.
So, when the grooves are too large, the clutch does not actually completely release. Dragging the clutch and making that noise.

Possible fixes:
- get a newer gen clutch basket. Check for recalls.
- file the grooves...

The problem is clutch oiling: http://www.i-bmw.com/attachment.php?...2&d=1310498905
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  #54  
Old 07-04-2015, 02:17 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Good morning,

I had the same problem with my K1200RS. The Iabs pump was broken. I went to Germany to pick up a refurbished Iabs module and had it installed by my local dealer. Since then the brakes are working fine. It saved me some money to do nice things.

The refurbished module was about 700 euro's. Don't know the rate in dollars.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:34 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

I wonder if I'm in the minority or majority. Bought my 07K12GT new and have 42Kmiles
with no big problems; just FD seal, and front ABS sensor broken wire. Didn't care
about the ABS breaking mid-trip, I rode bikes for 30 years w/o ABS and haven't
forgotten how. Packing up to go to MOA in Billings. I carry tools, GS911 diag tool, and tow
insurance. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I have a good dealer in town, they do annuals on it every couple years and I do
them in between. Kept up with the recalls and installed the updated cam chain tensioner
and jump guard myself. My clutch squeaks too but its only a noise, not
notice of impending failure. Once in a while it won't come down to idle but not often
enough to do anything about it, blip throttle and it comes down.

I attribute much of my success with this bike to this forum. Someone finds a problem,
someone posts a repair, many time with detailed instructions and pics, and I do the
preventative measures or am prepared for the possibility. I use the GS911 too.
This makes my 23rd bike and none of the others were fault free. Each had a fault (some
more than others), each had its own charm, most I still have.

The stats indicate that BMW is at a low in reliability, I was disappointed in how many
items I had to deal with in a new bike but I like riding it and its the best long haul bike
I've had. BTW, my wife's '09 Guzzi Norge is a fine bike too, I'm the "mechanic" on it
since there is no dealer in Alaska. Its got 30kmiles with no big problems. But its not nearly
as sophisticated or powerful a machine as the GT.
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  #56  
Old 07-12-2015, 12:28 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarmoose
The stats indicate that BMW is at a low in reliability, I was disappointed in how manyitems I had to deal with in a new bike but I like riding it and its the best long haul bike I've had. BTW, my wife's '09 Guzzi Norge is a fine bike too, I'm the "mechanic" on it
since there is no dealer in Alaska. Its got 30kmiles with no big problems. But its not nearly
as sophisticated or powerful a machine as the GT.

I picked up my GT from the dealer after ABS module was replaced this week. As I was waiting for my bike I questioned a nice looking R90/6 parked just inside the service entry. The service manager said it was his bike. I told him I used to ride one. I mentioned how simple and reliable my R90/6 was, and how I did all of my own maintenance, including valve adjustments. The service manager smiled and said simplicity is the reason he likes the old bikes.
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  #57  
Old 07-12-2015, 02:40 PM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Tempting fate, but here goes.

1997 'Taxi'. 32,000 miles in ten years. One problem -seized rear brake master cylinder.

Built quality : Bentley-esque.



2005 K1200S. 14,000 miles in four years. Modified cam chain tensioner and jump guard on day one. One problem - blown headlamp bulb.

Build quality - Universal Japanese Motorcycle + 5%.

David Mc.
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  #58  
Old 07-20-2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

In the interest of full disclosure, I am probably experiencing a bit of euphoria following a great 6,000 mile trip on my GT.

I bought a new 2007 K12GT in August 2007. It is my second BMW and is one of 3 bikes in my garage (2 Harley's, sorry), but I have 60,000 miles on it. From my home near Atlanta, it has taken me to Maine, Seattle, California, Colorado, Florida & The Keys several times, the Ozarks, and all over the southern Appalachians. It has never left me on the side of the road, which I attribute to it being a great machine that has benefited from careful compliance with scheduled maintenance.

Of course, I've had to deal with the known issues of this year and model. To wit: Recalls for key sensor, multiple fuel strips, cam chain tensioner, cam chain jump guard, lean fueling/surging, ABS pump replacement, rear drive bearing failure, and hot restart difficulty. But I've been able to deal with these during scheduled maintenance visits to my dealer. Most were under warranty, some were not.

In addition, I've changed the windshield, added a Rick Mayer seat, a Heli-bar handle bar spacer, and had a Power Commander installed and dyno tuned.

But all of that fades to black when I am on a wide open road out west, cruising along comfortably at 80-85 all day long. The ESA's setting sublety's really let you dial in the perfect ride. And when you roll back on the throttle to pass, or just for the heck of it, and shoot from 85 to 105 in a blink, it is hard not to just want to do it again. Then when you get in the twisties and elevation changes, click to the Sport setting, drop it into 3rd gear, and run up and down through the rev range with power to spare, and only needing the rear brake when you need to tighten up a turn, you'll have to fight the urge to turn around and do it again, too.

I keep thinking I'm ready for a new motorcycle. I've ridden several other new sport-tourers, and also the K16GT. They're terrific, but when I then get back on my GT, I realize I don't like any of those better than my old GT. The market value of the older slant-four GT's hasn't held up well. So, you can get them for a song. Even if you have to "invest" in some repairs/replacements, IMHO you will come out with a motorcycle that will serve you well for years, bring a regular smile to your face, and in the long run, still have you $$ ahead of other choices you could make.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:10 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgradolf
In the interest of full disclosure, I am probably experiencing a bit of euphoria following a great 6,000 mile trip on my GT.

Glad to hear you had a good, safe trip. That's a lot of riding. How many days were you on the road?

I repaired my GT's brake pad sensor wire and ABS module. No more red lights on the dash. But now the clutch started shuddering on take off in first gear. Have you experienced this on your bike?

I'm done with my GT. It's advertised on a couple classifieds. If it doesn't sell by winter, I'll trade it in next spring on a Guzzi Norge or Harley Switchback. Both are simpler machines by design with higher reliability than the GT.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: What Happened to BMW Quality?

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