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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:53 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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BMW warranty practice

Well for three years I have been banging on about K 12 and 1300 vibration issues that cause all sorts of other horrible rattles and associated noises all caused by the primary gear bearing tolerance being loose on a percentage of bikes.
Then recently I see and read about a guy from South Africa that had his forks snap off under the top yolk on a 1200 GS over 2 years ago, he has been campaigning for all that time to get BMW to recognise there is a weakness in this area and fix it....... at last they have, it’s a cheap and easy fix for the dealer to do but boy oh boy have they dragged there heals and FLATLY REFUSED to recognise there was ever a problem, and this on a major safety issue too.
My point is that in typical BMW fashion they have refused to attempt to rectify this vibration/ rattle and harshness in there 4 cylinder across the frame bikes in all the years of production, simply put, if it’s not going to kill you (and perhaps even if it is) they couldn’t give a sh1t about it, just keep pumping them out and sod you if you have a warranty issue.
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Old 02-20-2018, 03:01 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: BMW warranty practice

finally you've accepted the mission statement! I just spent quite a while looking at horrendous vids of leaking fuel connectors. Appalling makes the Ford Pinto look like a public service.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:49 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: BMW warranty practice

One wonders what avenue is available to make the safety minions of various jurisdictions aware of defects. I'm sure the manu is not obligated to report things. Perhaps we should find out how to submit safety complaints.
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2018, 07:18 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

I’m just about finished with BMW.
My K13S has been nearly flawless. I got lucky on that one.
My R12GSAW not so, but hopefully all is rectified.
It disgusts me that they never admit to any of the flaws in their bikes.

I just don’t think I want to try another bike and hope to get lucky again. Not for the money they charge.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:23 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

I recently had an opportunity to test drive a 2017 GS, bike handled great but I just couldn't get past the noisy engine. Sounded like something inside was just plain loose. A friend of mine did a test ride on 2 different GS's at 2 different dealerships and came away with the same impression. Engine just sounded noisy. BMW dealers seem very reluctant to negotiate price as well. Even on leftover stock. Last Saturday a week ago I purchased a 2017 triumph explorer Xcx with bags for 15k out the door. Ad to that 0% financing. I don't knock the beemers, their beautiful bikes, but the triumph deal was much more appealing to me.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:43 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Been riding since 1977. I've had problems (minor/major) with every brand of Motorcycle I've owned. 3 Yamahas, 1 Honda, 1 Suzuki, and 3 BMWs.

Developing something made from the raw elements of the Earth is no easy task. Almost always a product makes it to production with some flaws. Having retired from a career in Embedded Electronic Control System Development I witnessed my share of foolish decisions by management and less than stellar engineering...and thankfully, satisfyingly saw some good things happening too.

You spends your money and you takes your chances aye?

Oh, I really like my '11 K1300S - Bayerische Kraftwerk!
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:21 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
Been riding since 1977. I've had problems (minor/major) with every brand of Motorcycle I've owned. 3 Yamahas, 1 Honda, 1 Suzuki, and 3 BMWs.

Developing something made from the raw elements of the Earth is no easy task. Almost always a product makes it to production with some flaws. Having retired from a career in Embedded Electronic Control System Development I witnessed my share of foolish decisions by management and less than stellar engineering...and thankfully, satisfyingly saw some good things happening too.

You spends your money and you takes your chances aye?

Oh, I really like my '11 K1300S - Bayerische Kraftwerk!

That being said.... I don’t think what brand of bike you buy, they all have there own issues, especially when first introduced. Manufacturers do not admit to problems with there product usually until they are forced to. That goes for the automobile guy’s too. You either live with it or get out of game.

GT
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:03 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by gomato
That being said.... I don’t think what brand of bike you buy, they all have there own issues, especially when first introduced. Manufacturers do not admit to problems with there product usually until they are forced to. That goes for the automobile guy’s too. You either live with it or get out of game.

GT
I don’t disagree at all with you regarding any mechanical product and teething problems.... however it is the way that various manufacturers go about sorting out these problems.... or in BMWs case not doing anything and ignoring said problem until they are forced to.
I have had cars from BMW and Audi, and they are like chalk and cheese regarding warranty, BMW drive you to distraction, Audi just sort it, Yamaha, Triumph and Suzuki all behaved properly...... BMW just argue there is no fault.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2018, 02:48 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Eventually we all come to the realization that the mothership will never admit that a particular design flaw is a safety hazard. Similarly, they will never go out of their way to help pay for a repair of a poorly designed system, especially if it is on an older bike or a bike that doesn't fit into their model lineup. I learned this years ago when the ABS III puked on my k1200s. I doubt whether any other bike manufacturer is any different. It's general big corporate mentality.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2018, 09:46 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
a guy from South Africa that had his forks snap off under the top yolk

I can believe this. Look at the photos of the cycle in a collision with a car posted on this forum. The frame failed at the welds. It looked like cold welds or lack of penetration that would never pass a certification test. I'm not saying all frames are defective.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:49 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

What is a Safety-Related Defect?
A safety-related defect is a problem that affects the safe operation or functioning of a vehicle, tire or child car seat. In order for a defect to be considered safety-related, it must have originated at the design, manufacturing or assembly stage, or it must interfere with the functioning of the vehicle, tire or child car seat. The defect must also be present in a group of similar vehicles, tires or child car seats, and it must directly endanger the safety of a person, which includes drivers, passengers, the occupants of other vehicles, pedestrians, cyclists and other road users. Finally, the problem caused by the defect must occur with little or no warning and not be due to everyday wear and tear, a lack of proper maintenance, or negligence on the part of the owner.


https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur....aspx?lang=eng

A way out in the last sentence. I'm sure other jurisdictions have their own reporting mechanisms.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2018, 10:07 AM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

It's the German Engineering ethos - they are 98% right and 100% certain. It takes an act of <deity of your choice> to get them to acknowledge they've made a mistake. It's not just vehicles either. It's in everything they do.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:03 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
It's the German Engineering ethos - they are 98% right and 100% certain. It takes an act of <deity of your choice> to get them to acknowledge they've made a mistake. It's not just vehicles either. It's in everything they do.
Got it in one, I have worked with a number of German manufacturers and they are “never wrong” even when the obvious is pointed out to them.
They drove us mad at times. Never mentioned the war once either 😂😂😂
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:18 PM
KafkaKaffe KafkaKaffe is offline
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsDriverWes
It's the German Engineering ethos - they are 98% right and 100% certain. It takes an act of <deity of your choice> to get them to acknowledge they've made a mistake. It's not just vehicles either. It's in everything they do.
Even invading Poland??? Hmmm oddly its a culturally insensitive cliché but I never met a German who was not insufferably arrogant. A statistically meaningless anecdote of course.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:04 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Haven't you guys ever heard the old joke about Germans? "You can tell a German from 200 feet away...from 2 feet away, you can't tell him a damn thing."
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:59 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

So we're bashing the Germans for being German now?

How many of you on this Forum have German Forefathers? Ich bin ein Achtel Deutsch.

So ein Schlamfest!
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:59 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

If we have a moderator, this has gone far enough. There is a difference between product evaluation and cultural insults.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:04 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

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Old 02-23-2018, 08:35 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by KafkaKaffe
I never met a German who was not insufferably arrogant. A statistically meaningless anecdote of course.
Seriously?? I know a lot of Germans and most are are pretty self assured, but only a few are really arrogant. Probably about the same percentage as Americans. Now the French, we'll that's a different story.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:32 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
Seriously?? I know a lot of Germans and most are are pretty self assured, but only a few are really arrogant. Probably about the same percentage as Americans. Now the French, we'll that's a different story.

Its the Liechtenstein aeronautics engineers that you really need to watch out for.
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:24 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
Seriously?? I know a lot of Germans and most are are pretty self assured, but only a few are really arrogant. Probably about the same percentage as Americans. Now the French, we'll that's a different story.

Now you’re talking😂😂
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:51 PM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

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Now you’re talking😂😂
Sad to think your leaving I have read a lot of your posts and you are an ace. Great technical reading well written etc/
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:59 AM
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Re: BMW warranty practice

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Sad to think your leaving I have read a lot of your posts and you are an ace. Great technical reading well written etc/

I really wanted to get a few riders with the same vibe problem as me together to afford the expense of a short run of the offending sleeve/bush made in oversizes to eliminate the wobble on the primary gear, but sadly there were only three that were keen enough to show any interest so I had to shelve the whole thing.
I have just one that I am going to do but by a different route, ie selective bearings from various manufacturers as explained in another post. But you have to prepared to fit and discard bearings until a clearance free fit is found, this is what BMW should be doing with various sizes of sleeve on original assembly, however because they have replaced engines and bikes when pressed it was obvious they didn’t know why certain engines were vibrating and noisy and others were not, just like the fix for the fragile fork legs on the 1200 GS bikes, it’s so simple.
Never mind, whoever gets my K1300 from Balderstones in Peterborough will take home the smoothest, quietist K of all....... it’s there now folks..... buy it. Cheers.
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