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  #61  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

OK, there's a lot of stuff here, so I'm going to ask something dumb, and hopefully not get slapped. How do you tell which module you have? Mine has BMSK and then a series of numbers starting with 7.

Here's the deal. I had NONE of these issues for 4500 miles. My riding style varies greatly, but tends towards "hard". I was in Minneapolis the other day, and out of the blue, 3000 rpm idle. I could knock it down by letting a little clutch out. Jerky response down low, bad idle, the whole deal. I was upset, having read about your troubles.

So I shut the bike down. We have Coffee. I hop back on, no issues. Another 1000 miles, hasn't raised it's head again. I'll ask the dealer at the 6K next week. He's a damn good dealer, got some stupid stuff "goodwilled" on my K1200RS, I didn't have to pull the irate customer act. I'll let you know what I find out.
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  #62  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:52 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
Finally, there's a "Limited Time Offer" to upgrade "just" GTs to the new ecu! Why not the K-S/R? There is some blather the limited time offer is for those "thinking" about retrofitting asc, but the new ecu was installed in my bike w/o also adding asc. And, knock wood, it fixed the high idle and what I refer to as BBS (or should that be just plain BMW B.S.?) BBS = Bucking Bronco Syndrome.

Miles


the worst part about this "limited time offer"
it was introduced, to the dealers, in a HIDDEN MEMO.....
NEVER intended to be seen by any customers....
and.... you HAD to "ORDER" the NEW ECU by 4/30/07

when i was at my dealer last saturday, during the 6 hour wait... BEFORE the problems with my bike arose...
i was able to see that memo...
because i was again being angry about not being able to RETROFIT the TPM

BMW has screwed up A LOT lately....
- lying about what our "VERSION A" 2007 GTs would do, or could have (as options)
- hiding the problems with the OLD ECU

just to name 2
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  #63  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:55 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by lownoterider
OK, there's a lot of stuff here, so I'm going to ask something dumb, and hopefully not get slapped. How do you tell which module you have? Mine has BMSK and then a series of numbers starting with 7.

Here's the deal. I had NONE of these issues for 4500 miles. My riding style varies greatly, but tends towards "hard". I was in Minneapolis the other day, and out of the blue, 3000 rpm idle. I could knock it down by letting a little clutch out. Jerky response down low, bad idle, the whole deal. I was upset, having read about your troubles.

So I shut the bike down. We have Coffee. I hop back on, no issues. Another 1000 miles, hasn't raised it's head again. I'll ask the dealer at the 6K next week. He's a damn good dealer, got some stupid stuff "goodwilled" on my K1200RS, I didn't have to pull the irate customer act. I'll let you know what I find out.

you have the OLD ECU
the new one has a "P" at the end

when was your bike BUILT?

mine was a first-week production 2007....
built the week of august 7, 2006

they didn't start putting in the "NEW" ECUs until after the first of this year

why it happened, ALL OF A SUDDEN is beyond me

i LOVE my GT.... and it is my 5th BMW
but....
this bike has problems

no, not all of them..... but, a significant percentage
BMW knows this....
it's time for a NATIONWIDE RECALL of the faulty ECU

after YOUR post, if i were one of those folks who had the OLD ECU and was having NO problems.... i'd STILL be worried that my bike would start "acting" up when i was on some long trip, far from ANY BMW dealer
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  #64  
Old 05-30-2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Mine was built in December '06. Still only that one occurence. Hot day, varied between stop and go and blast down the interstate. Going to have another one today. Upper 80's here, and I have an urban excursion on the plate. I'll be in the vicinity of my dealer, too...... We'll see what happens.
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  #65  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:35 PM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
the worst part about this "limited time offer"
it was introduced, to the dealers, in a HIDDEN MEMO.....
NEVER intended to be seen by any customers....
and.... you HAD to "ORDER" the NEW ECU by 4/30/07


Greg,

That internal bulletin, as typical, can be interpreted in lots of different ways by both your dealer and BMW - NA.

The last sentence in the first paragraph of the bulletin says and I quote: "Your invoices submitted for this campaign will be accepted in the period ending June 29, 2007".

The bulletin contains a "double meaning".

My dealer ordered the "new" ecu after May 1 and submitted the invoice back to BMW-NA less than a week later.

If the dealer "chooses" on an individual case basis, (these are human beings capable of abstract thinking, afterall), a new ecu can be sent on the "deal" and the there is still plenty of time to get all the paperwork into BMW - NA by the end of June! It's just a matter of your dealership getting on the phone and both him and BMW -NA agreeing to send out the lititle black box. Nothing is cast in concrete on this issue.

FWIW, although I'm using myself as a statistical sample of "one" and perhaps not valid, the following occured during April: Version 8.1 of the software was downloaded into the old ecu on my early '07 and the high idle and bucking resulted. Compare that with the following: next the dealership "installed" the "new" ecu also with 8.1 that was preloaded at the factory.

Over the next 10 days and more than 3000 miles (on tour), the bike ran smoothly (and with more punch) seemingly like all the later Mk II '07 GTs.

BMS-KP? I wouldn't leave home without it!!

Miles
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  #66  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:23 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I guess my question is...how did you talk the dealer into ordering the new ecu? Based on the bulletin the service manager I spoke with seems that flashing the ecu will do the trick with a new airbox. I think that sometimes a service manager or anyone in the service industry realizes that gossip on forums can get out of hand. We are not technicians and they might get defensive. I find it hard to believe that so many people have had issues with this and BMW hasn't stepped up and provided a real fix for this.
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  #67  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:45 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
Greg,

That internal bulletin, as typical, can be interpreted in lots of different ways by both your dealer and BMW - NA.

The last sentence in the first paragraph of the bulletin says and I quote: "Your invoices submitted for this campaign will be accepted in the period ending June 29, 2007".

The bulletin contains a "double meaning".

My dealer ordered the "new" ecu after May 1 and submitted the invoice back to BMW-NA less than a week later.

If the dealer "chooses" on an individual case basis, (these are human beings capable of abstract thinking, afterall), a new ecu can be sent on the "deal" and the there is still plenty of time to get all the paperwork into BMW - NA by the end of June! It's just a matter of your dealership getting on the phone and both him and BMW -NA agreeing to send out the lititle black box. Nothing is cast in concrete on this issue.

FWIW, although I'm using myself as a statistical sample of "one" and perhaps not valid, the following occured during April: Version 8.1 of the software was downloaded into the old ecu on my early '07 and the high idle and bucking resulted. Compare that with the following: next the dealership "installed" the "new" ecu also with 8.1 that was preloaded at the factory.

Over the next 10 days and more than 3000 miles (on tour), the bike ran smoothly (and with more punch) seemingly like all the later Mk II '07 GTs.

BMS-KP? I wouldn't leave home without it!!

Miles

i'm banking on the "no news is good news" at THIS point
no word from my dealer... perhaps they are doing "MORE" rather than "LESS"

if you get my meaning
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  #68  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:54 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I just heard from my dealer, BMW authorized a new air-box. I don't want a new air-box I want a new ECU. I think my dealer agrees with me, but he can only do what BMW says to do . Although my bikes running great with 9.1, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the high idle comes back. For now I'm just going to put some miles on it and see what happens.
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  #69  
Old 05-30-2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

my dealer hasn't called me yet
they've had my since 1300 yesterday
they will close in 16 minutes

is this "no news is good news?"

i have NO idea..... but, i will NOT call them today
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  #70  
Old 05-30-2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
Although my bikes running great with 9.1, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the high idle comes back. For now I'm just going to put some miles on it and see what happens.

there is NO "expiration date" on getting a new ECU authorized by BMW IF your bike doesn't run well

so...
ride it and let's see what happens

if, on the other hand, you are going on some long trip soon....
that isn't good
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  #71  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:16 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
Although my bikes running great with 9.1, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the high idle comes back. For now I'm just going to put some miles on it and see what happens.

My dealer said that BMW says 'new airbox for hi idle'. So I got my bike back today with a new airbox. I also got 9.1. Bike runs really well, though only have about 50 mi. on the new airbox. Low speed handling like night and day. Better torque and no bucking.

I ordered the ASC update at disount price as a way to get new ecu. Wondering if maybe I don't need it, but will get it anyway, as insurance.
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  #72  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:22 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
My dealer said that BMW says 'new airbox for hi idle'. So I got my bike back today with a new airbox. I also got 9.1. Bike runs really well, though only have about 50 mi. on the new airbox. Low speed handling like night and day. Better torque and no bucking.

I ordered the ASC update at disount price as a way to get new ecu. Wondering if maybe I don't need it, but will get it anyway, as insurance.

so.....
you DO have the NEW ECU in your bike now?
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  #73  
Old 05-31-2007, 11:01 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
so.....
you DO have the NEW ECU in your bike now?

No, I still have the old ECU. The ASC is still on order.
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  #74  
Old 05-31-2007, 12:15 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I really hope that this airbox and 9.1 upgrade does the trick. I rode in this morning and the whole way in I was wishing I had my R12st back. It was not as comfortable to ride but way more responsive and dealt better with traffic. Then I said to my self...just be patient. I then got to the traffic light right in front of my office and the throttle stuck at 2900rpms. The joys of GT ownership
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  #75  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:13 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
No, I still have the old ECU. The ASC is still on order.

hmmmmmm
good luck
i hope that all works out well
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  #76  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:14 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher
I really hope that this airbox and 9.1 upgrade does the trick. I rode in this morning and the whole way in I was wishing I had my R12st back. It was not as comfortable to ride but way more responsive and dealt better with traffic. Then I said to my self...just be patient. I then got to the traffic light right in front of my office and the throttle stuck at 2900rpms. The joys of GT ownership

$25,000.00+ of frustration
isn't life grand?
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  #77  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:28 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
This needs to be clarified. ...
No doubt the GT and S have different programming. I was just trying to instill a bit of hope. I hardly ever mentioned how cold natured our RS was, or that for the first year and a half of ownership it would try to commit suicide if ridden at high rpm into a turn (die whe on throttle up, lurch on decelleration, etc.). The dealer could NOT fix it, and that was incredibly frustrating. Everyone kept telling me to "let BMW fix it". They could not. It made me rather .

I certainly hope that's not the case here. But I really do LOVE the S. 9500 miles and zero problems.
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  #78  
Old 05-31-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Update on my bike:

sorry for the large type....
you'll see why in a minute.....

i'm pissed
they haven't even touched my bike
they didn't have the airbox.... they don't know when it will be here
so, nothing has done been done on my bike AT ALL...

just thought you'd like to know
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  #79  
Old 05-31-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

i know that miles will tell me that everything will be ok.... eventually (and, i DO need that right now, MILES..... please)
but.....
i was hoping that in the 48 hours they've had my bike that SOMETHING POSITIVE had been done

but......
NO.....
the bike has been sitting and no one called to give me an update (of course...... why would they? there WERE no updates )

so......
i'm no closer to getting my DESERVED NEW ECU than i was 2 days ago

so......
they will replace my airbox and REflash the ECU.... only 6 more flashes left in the 13-flash limit.....
and ALL UNDER WARRANTY for a bike that won't run properly
IF i don't get that new ECU.....
what will i do in a year when i need to pay for a new ECU when all of the allotted flashes were done AT THE DEALER'S DISCRETION??????
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  #80  
Old 05-31-2007, 05:36 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Greg,

My posts on this thread may have made it look like the new ecu was installed in a short time-frame.

If I've given anyone that impression, it's not the case.

My bike was at the dealership for one day more than two full weeks while they must have gone thru a process that led to the decision to replace the ecu.

For instance, there's something the dealer network has called "PUMA" which is some sort of internet website that dealers use to discuss "problem issues" with other dealers and presumably BMW -NA.

Then, there's the time it takes to order and receive parts - which shouldn't be more than a couple of work days. Clearly the new airboxes, the 9.1 cd and/or the new ecu's aren't stocked.

Did they give you any clue what's in the offing for your bike?

Even if they don't/can't give you the steps that are taking place to fix your bike, I'd wait one more work week before taking any other action.

Yes, the new ecu would be right up there on my priority list. As I"ve said before that would be priority even if the new airbox, version 9.1 fixes the high idle problem. There's always the notion that you can take the next step and integrate the asc if you wish, the value of your bike goes up incrementally since it's now the "latest version" of the '07 model year - a knowlegable prospective buyer would be interested in that imo. And, as you indicated, your back to zero on the flash count.

Miles
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  #81  
Old 05-31-2007, 07:03 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

thank you very much, Miles...
for that "PEP TALK."
i really appreciate it

putting the "timeline" in perspective is very very helpful to me
i'll continue to have faith and keep you informed as to what happens next

saturday morning... 38 hours from now
i'll DRIVE over to the dealer to see what's going on

thanks
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  #82  
Old 05-31-2007, 08:39 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

is it possible
that with all the upgrades
that someone with the new generation "K" bike
actually upgrade themselves into a problem

that their perfectly running bike
be made worse

that well enuf be left alone
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  #83  
Old 05-31-2007, 10:20 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tail
is it possible
that with all the upgrades
that someone with the new generation "K" bike
actually upgrade themselves into a problem

that their perfectly running bike
be made worse

that well enuf be left alone

you are correct...
it was my dealer's idea to upgrade my bike from 8.1 to 9.1 software on my OLD ECU, 1st-week production 2007 GT

and.....
well, you know the rest of MY story
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  #84  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
yes.....
i know ALL about the crappy/warping airbox that BMW put in my K1200GT
but......
i NEVER had the problem

then..
while at the dealer yesterday,they decide to take care of all kinds of "campaigns" on my bike

1. new center stand
2. oil filler cap
3. 9.1 software install

takes 16:16. i'm there 6 hours. i leave

instantly the bike surges/can't even ride it safely
go back.... and it turns out....
"never install the 9.1 software before you put in a new airbox/even on bikes that have never had the problem previously"

so....
they no more airboxes...they don't know when they will
and..... i can't ride my bike (safely)

oh... and..... on the way home
i (of course) wasn't very happy
so.... i was going 72 in a 50
memorial day weekend
and.... i get stopped
NICEST COP IN THE WORLD
wanted to take for 15 minutes about my 2 gps devices on 1 bike
bmw nav iii
garmin 376c
LOVED my bike

STILL HAVE ME A $210.60 ticket for "22 over"


it was a GREAT FUCK__G day

I'm with BMW Motorrad USA. I've passed this message on to a BMW Motorrad National Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.
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  #85  
Old 06-01-2007, 11:56 AM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-Motorrad
I'm with BMW Motorrad USA. I've passed this message on to a BMW Motorrad National Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.

Aw come on, now. This almost sounds like a pre-recorded message. You said the same thing several weeks ago when a similar problem popped up and your passing along one of our messages amounted to a hill of beans.

Let's get some detail going.

Who are you? What capacity are you representing BMW Motorrad?

And, most importantly who (name please) are you passing the message to? And what authority does he have to correct these problems?

Further, do you not agree that all the "original" ecu's in the early '07 GTs should be retrofitted under warranty with the new ecu's? Why is BMW Motorrad USA dragging their feet on this issue?

Do you not agree that releasing a rider on the premier flagship bike in the BMW line that bucks and suffers a high idle while riding does in fact constitute product liability on the part of BMW in the event of a mishap caused by these two problems? (A true saftey issue as some have indicated?)

Is it true that BMW Motorrad USA laid off all the field engineers who were equipped to handle these problems in the field? How does that square with "passing the message along'?

If you do have any clout, how about a recall on all GTs, regardless of model year, to have the new, updated airbox installed along with 9.1; and a recall on all early '07's to have the new BMS-KP ecu installed?

Can you tell us the reason the original ecu was trashed in favor of the new ecu beyond the weak excuse that the GTs needed the new ecu to accept asc? Why didn't the original ecu "accept" asc when it was in the bikes and the promise was made to many of us it was just a matter of "adding" asc as a retrofit?

There are many more questions surrounding the issues with the GT, but maybe you could specifically, in detail answer these questions at this time?

Most importantly, if your post is in the least bit effective, have you now sent the new BMS-KP ecu to Greg Saval's dealer for the fastest possible installation? This should be done at no cost to him - never mind the so called "limited time offer"!

Has this happened?

Miles
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:07 PM
Miles_Miller Miles_Miller is offline
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Here is a copy of the same exact message from BMW Motorrad USA in the same wording when another GT owner had a similar complaint back on May 3rd.

What was the result of this intervention on the part of BMW Motorrad's "Customer relations Representative? Please be explicit!

Please don't insult us with platitudes. Are these two messages real; or, is this just a bunch of BMW BS?

Miles

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Re: Bike Issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianB
I started talking about this on another thread in General discussions but thought I'd start my own in the Tech section. I'm kinda new to to this message board thing so please excuse any breach of etiquette.

I brought my bike in for it's initial service last week. The only warranty item I had was for a jerky throttle at low rpm. I was told it was the throttle cable being lose and that would fix the problem. When I rode the bike home it seemed ok. I've now had a chance to ride it a bit and have found the same problem still happening.

The way I would describe it is this:

There is a "surging" at part throttle opening making it difficult to finese the throttle at all. I have resorted to using the clutch around slow speed corners since the acceleration is so unpredictable.

At times I can hold the throttle at part opening with little initial result. Leaving in the same position though the bike will begin to accelerate.

Any thoughts? The dealer looks at me like I have an extra head sewed onto my shoulders when I describe it to them.

The bike is a 2007 with ESA and cruise control.

Thanks in advance for any and all input.



I'm with BMW Motorrad USA. I've passed this message on to a BMW Motorrad National Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

My 2006 K1200GT (first deliveries here in the USA, May, 2006) experienced throttle hesitation and some very noticeable flat spots in the throttle. Truth be known I was ecstatic with the bike's performance, having awaited its arrival since the fall of 2005, and was willing to forego some of its oddities. For example, trying to hold a consistent RPM at lower RPMs, or, more importantly, how it was sometimes a bit scary to negotiate a low-RPM tight turn, wondering what the engine was going to do.

Suffice it to say, Lee Florin, service manager at BMW Daytona and his fine staff worked through these issues with appropriate software version updates, with the final update being V8.X.

About that time I acquired, again through BMW Daytona, a 2006 demo K1200R. Oddly, I ordered a spare key only to find out that BMWMotorrad somehow lost the code for my ECU and the only way to get a second key was to upgrade to the new "P" version of the ECU. I was so happy with BMW's response and what I perceived as a very definite performance update that I asked BMW Daytona to look into replacing the ECU in my '06GT of course me paying for the new ECU and attendant labor.

This of course does not necessarily help those that are having specific issues with the GT, the somewhat less than spectacular improvements with version updates, but I believe that while there may be lots of sides to the story, the new "P" suffix ECU is clearly the way to go in my opinion. What's disappointing is the varied responses members of this forum are receiving from the dealers.

Kudo's to Bill Peretti's operation in Daytona, Lee Florin/Bill Warnick, and the service staff. I know, a shameless plug!
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:30 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I just received my '07 GT back from California BMW's excellent service department, in for the high idle problem. BMSK ECU, build date 12/06. They replaced the airbox and upgraded the software to 9.1. The low speed performance was excellent, with no bucking. I did notice a slight lag in the the onset of engine compression when rolling off throttle, which was expected as the only way to prevent bucking.

Odd this morning tho, after my 30 mi. ride to work. The idle was slightly elevated to 1200 RPM, and when I opened the throttle to bring it to 2000, the ECU took the throttle from me and bounced it up to 3000. I then released the throttle and idle went back, slowly, to 1200. I repeated this about 4 times. I turned the engine off then restarted about a minute later, and the behavior disappeared, with idle back to 1050. Had to be software.

Have got ASC retrofit on order.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Did all of you who have the ASC retrofit (e.g., the KP ECU) on order place your orders prior to the April 30th deadline, or did some of your dealers manage to order the retrofit at the bulletin price after April 30th?

Rusty
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:44 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC
Did all of you who have ASC (e.g., the KP ECU) on order place your orders prior to the April 30th deadline, or did some of your dealers manage to order the retrofit at the bulletin price after April 30th?

Rusty

I was quoted $600 plus some change, the discounted price, after April 30. My dealer said BMW had approved, so have my hopes up. When I pays my money, I'll give the final word, tho.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:44 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
I just received my '07 GT back from California BMW's excellent service department, in for the high idle problem. BMSK ECU, build date 12/06. They replaced the airbox and upgraded the software to 9.1. The low speed performance was excellent, with no bucking. I did notice a slight lag in the the onset of engine compression when rolling off throttle, which was expected as the only way to prevent bucking.

Odd this morning tho, after my 30 mi. ride to work. The idle was slightly elevated to 1200 RPM, and when I opened the throttle to bring it to 2000, the ECU took the throttle from me and bounced it up to 3000. I then released the throttle and idle went back, slowly, to 1200. I repeated this about 4 times. I turned the engine off then restarted about a minute later, and the behavior disappeared, with idle back to 1050. Had to be software.

Have got ASC retrofit on order.

So you have one of the, what I call interim 2007 GT's, manufactured in 2006 if it has the non-P suffix ECU, am I correct? As importantly, can you describe what actually ensued when you attempted/ordered the ASC option? Did you initiate the process or did your dealer?

There has been documented information that asserts that BMW Motorrad offered the new ECU/P model through its dealers to those 'interim' 07 GT owners so that ASC and TPM could be added to their cycles as an upgrade. The ECU was offered at some lower price i.e. $250 or so, and whatever the ASC/attendant labor additionally added. My understanding was that this was not a thought-out, or overt marketing plan and that to many this flew under the radar in terms of knowing about it. And, the program ended in May '07.

As an '06GT owner of course this made no difference to me in that the servo-brakes, etc. precluded this program. This information did not come to me from any dealer, BTW.
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  #92  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:51 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Right. I purchased and took delivery of my 2006-build 2007 K12GT on March 3, 2007. The first I heard of the ASC retrofit/KP ECU upgrade was on this forum, and it was after April 30th! No one offered me anything between March 3rd and April 30th, and my dealer says BMW is taking a "Well, that's just too bad for you" position on the matter.

Any comment, Mr. BMW-Motorrad???

Rusty
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  #93  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
So you have one of the, what I call interim 2007 GT's, manufactured in 2006 if it has the non-P suffix ECU, am I correct? As importantly, can you describe what actually ensued when you attempted/ordered the ASC option? Did you initiate the process or did your dealer?

That is correct - an interim '07 GT is what I have, with a non-P suffix ECU.

I was made aware of the ECU as an issue with the interim GTs by reading posts here and on k-bikes.com, specifically around the high idle issue. Although I had not experienced it yet, I was pretty sure, based on posts here, that it would show up. Sure enough, at 1200 miles, it struck.

I had started the ASC retrofit ordering process before that, however, on the belief that having the new ECU and the ASC option would add considerable resale value to the GT, and would be the only way to really fix the yet to come engine behavior issues. I also wanted the ASC feature, since I routinely ride in the rain.

I brought the Service Bulletin no. to my dealer's service dept. about May 15, and asked them to order the discounted ASC retrofit. The service writer started to research it and the service manager walked by and said that the discounted parts portion of the bulletin had expired on April 30 - a week after I had taken delivery of my GT!

I voiced my chagrin with the owner of the dealership, and he said he would look into it. I later talked to the parts manager (I don't believe my conversation with the owner had anything to do with this), who took the bulletin no. from me, and said all he needed to do was email BMW to get approval. About a day later, he came back and said BMW had approved it and it would cost a bit more than $600. There are no BMSKP ECUs in the states, so not sure when all this will arrive. BMW needs to also ship a VIN specific CD to the dealer to activate the new ECU.
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  #94  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
I brought the Service Bulletin no. to my dealer's service dept. about May 15, and asked them to order the discounted ASC retrofit......About a day later, he came back and said BMW had approved it and it would cost a bit more than $600.
Gosh, Mr. BMW-Motorrad, there appears to be an inconsistency here between what you're telling this customer's dealer and what you're telling my dealer. Why is that???

On edit - I contacted my dealer MAY 10TH!! Would you like a copy of the e-mail???

Rusty
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:27 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
I brought the Service Bulletin no. to my dealer's service dept. about May 15, and asked them to order the discounted ASC retrofit.

BTW - my parts manager told me that most of the work involved in ordering the parts on the authority of the bulletin was actually in finding the bulletin without its number, so having the number for them was a real plus.
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

I advised my dealer of the bulletin number as well.....

Rusty
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

The timing on this "limited Time Offer" Bulletin is totally bogus, imo for the following reasons:

A) The bulletin was issued in Mid April to the dealers (or later).

B) The bulletin does indicate that the "special prices" would be available until April 30th.

C) that invoices submitted for this campagin will be accepted in the period ending June 29th, 2007.

None of the dealers had the new ecu BMS-KP in stock and probably still don't stock the part.

These bulletins are sent to dealers and GT owners are not notified otherwise.

Can you see the nonsense with this? Here we have an "internal" "limited Time Offer" bulletin issued by BMW Motorrad USA where the effective time frame for getting the GT owner in the loop and ordering the "parts" i.e the new ecu BMS-KP is a week or so?

This is patentenly ridiculous, and a gross insult to all the those who purchased an '07 GT with the now obsolete ecu.

Barring a recall to install the new ecu; at the very least, this "limited time offer" should be re-issued with a time frame, at the very least, that lasts until the end of the model year.

Miles
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:02 PM
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That's About What I Paid...

quote:he came back and said BMW had approved it and it would cost a bit more than $600

I paid about that for my '06 and it was worth it. (plus labor).
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:18 PM
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Re: That's About What I Paid...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
quote:he came back and said BMW had approved it and it would cost a bit more than $600

I paid about that for my '06 and it was worth it. (plus labor).


Was that for just the new ECU?
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:36 PM
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Re: That's About What I Paid...

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
Was that for just the new ECU?

Yes, since the '06 CANNOT have ASC.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by howfly
I just received my '07 GT back from California BMW's excellent service department, in for the high idle problem. BMSK ECU, build date 12/06. They replaced the airbox and upgraded the software to 9.1. The low speed performance was excellent, with no bucking. I did notice a slight lag in the the onset of engine compression when rolling off throttle, which was expected as the only way to prevent bucking.

Odd this morning tho, after my 30 mi. ride to work. The idle was slightly elevated to 1200 RPM, and when I opened the throttle to bring it to 2000, the ECU took the throttle from me and bounced it up to 3000. I then released the throttle and idle went back, slowly, to 1200. I repeated this about 4 times. I turned the engine off then restarted about a minute later, and the behavior disappeared, with idle back to 1050. Had to be software.

Have got ASC retrofit on order.

your bike now REQUIRES THE NEW ECU
the problem will only get worse

9.1 cannot be loaded into the OLD ECU
everyone in GERMANY knows this... but, no one will admit this in the USA

get your dealer to get you the new ECU
they just screwed up your bike
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC
Right. I purchased and took delivery of my 2006-build 2007 K12GT on March 3, 2007. The first I heard of the ASC retrofit/KP ECU upgrade was on this forum, and it was after April 30th! No one offered me anything between March 3rd and April 30th, and my dealer says BMW is taking a "Well, that's just too bad for you" position on the matter.

Any comment, Mr. BMW-Motorrad???

Rusty

this is why you have to go ABOVE YOUR DEALER'S HEAD
basically... i know realize..... that dealers ALL OVER THE COUNTRY have decided to SCREW their customers by FAILING TO MENTION this deal to all of us until it was too late

was this the "ORDER" for high up.......?
who knows

but....
it's time for all of us to demand the RIGHT THING TO DO

somehow BMW corporate TRIED to offer us a deal

i bought my '07 GT early because i was PROMISED that i'd be able to retrofit the ASC and TPM

BMW knew we were pissed when it turned out that the retrofits were either impossible or financially impeded
so..... they offered us some deals

but.... someone/somewhere in the BMW hierarchy screwed us

anyone have any ideas?
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  #103  
Old 06-01-2007, 05:33 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Did 370 miles today with 9.1 in the old ECU (over 500 total). Still had the high idle a couple times, but never over 1500 RPM. Hesitation was still there too but not as bad or often.
I guess a new air-box is the next step.
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  #104  
Old 06-01-2007, 06:46 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
Did 370 miles today with 9.1 in the old ECU (over 500 total). Still had the high idle a couple times, but never over 1500 RPM. Hesitation was still there too but not as bad or often.
I guess a new air-box is the next step.

do you think that the high idle "a couple of times" COULD be "normal"?
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:02 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
do you think that the high idle "a couple of times" COULD be "normal"?
ABSOLUTLY NOT, the route we did today didn't have many stop sign's or light's so it's hard to say how often the idle was high.
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:09 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
ABSOLUTLY NOT, the route we did today didn't have many stop sign's or light's so it's hard to say how often the idle was high.

quite frankly, i think the word "MADDENING" is the most accurate here.

of all the EFI "quirks" our beloved BMWs have had over time, this is the most DANGEROUS.

"engine braking" has become a THING OF THE PAST
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  #107  
Old 06-01-2007, 08:18 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

My '06 was connected to the GT-1 today. The dealer had just received the 9.1 CD for the GT-1. And let's please remember this fact "for the GT-1". When he checked my BMS-K unit it gave us a current version level of "x" (some 8 digit number I didn't write down) it gave us a "plan" to "upgrade" my eprom (BMS-K flash memory) to some "new" version (again another 8 digit number I didn't write down). Point being my "BMS-K" could be upgraded by a "GT-1 at 9.1". Does that make my BMS-K now a 9.1 upgrade? Absolutely not. You guys all need to get your facts straight. There are no experts here (at least that I can tell) and most of this chat-chat is misinformed idle "gossip". With ignorance playing a large measure.

There is an awful lot of misinformation and speculation being bandied about in this thread. I suspect over 90% is pure BS and completely inaccurate. Some of these GT-1 upgrades (I believe 8.1 if my memory serves me correctly) are not even relevant for the K44 engine, but for the "S" and the "R".

In any case, my '06 is already PERFECT at version "_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _". So I declined the free upgrade. The service manager later told me I'd made a wise choice, the customers having upgraded all complaining about a lack of "snap". But smoother low end. (richer mixture I understand, which explains the backfiring we've heard about). In any case, my "Canadian" (and that may be relevant) bike isn't plagued by any of the issues.
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  #108  
Old 06-01-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIZIKS
My '06 was connected to the GT-1 today. The dealer had just received the 9.1 CD for the GT-1. And let's please remember this fact "for the GT-1". When he checked my BMS-K unit it gave us a current version level of "x" (some 8 digit number I didn't write down) it gave us a "plan" to "upgrade" my eprom (BMS-K flash memory) to some "new" version (again another 8 digit number I didn't write down). Point being my "BMS-K" could be upgraded by a "GT-1 at 9.1". Does that make my BMS-K now a 9.1 upgrade? Absolutely not. You guys all need to get your facts straight. There are no experts here (at least that I can tell) and most of this chat-chat is misinformed idle "gossip". With ignorance playing a large measure.

There is an awful lot of misinformation and speculation being bandied about in this thread. I suspect over 90% is pure BS and completely inaccurate. Some of these GT-1 upgrades (I believe 8.1 if my memory serves me correctly) are not even relevant for the K44 engine, but for the "S" and the "R".

In any case, my '06 is already PERFECT at version "_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _". So I declined the free upgrade. The service manager later told me I'd made a wise choice, the customers having upgraded all complaining about a lack of "snap". But smoother low end. (richer mixture I understand, which explains the backfiring we've heard about). In any case, my "Canadian" (and that may be relevant) bike isn't plagued by any of the issues.

chris
i find your post very arrogant

NO EXPERTS HERE?

my ass

you might forget that BMW owners are some of the most educated motorcyclists on the road
and this forum is a great gathering of smart folks

most of us have friends in the service departments and are very knowledgable about our bikes

i spent over 25K for my GT....
you can bet your ass i know what i'm talking about when it comes to versions of software

guess what?
some of the folks here know a heck of a lot more than some of the techs
IF you doubt that statement..... you are living in a delusional world

the dealers think that the internet and these forums have RUINED their relationship with the customer base... because of rumors and inuendo
but........
the exact opposite is true around here
smart folks spread facts about bmw problems
without this forum, folks would just SETTLE for what they get

for my money.....
i'll demand the best

that jackass at your dealership talking about NOT upgrading because of "lack of zip" is either LYING to you..... or just plain MISinformed
my bike idles at 3,000..... and it's dangerous to ride
there's 100s more out there doing the VERY SAME THING

now......
we are friends
and i don't mean to attack you
but..... your statement was arrogant and false.....

sorry to be so abrupt
but..... i've had enough
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #109  
Old 06-02-2007, 11:06 AM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

He does have a point that we really don't know what version is loaded onto the ecu except what the dealer or tech tells us.

Unless we have the version # then correlate that with the "update #", we really don't know which one the GT-1 decided to upload.

I also am beginning to wonder if the uploads are not properly "taking" on all bikes and if some bikes are left with corrupted fuel files.

Best way is to get the newest ecu as you have said previously.

I wonder if it's like upgrading windows. Some computers take it some don't. And the upgrade is never quite as complete as the original program.

Just a thought. I know you're mad. I would be too. The point is really acedemic as it doesn't solve any problems. Except maybe pointing you in the direction of getting a new ecu.

Maybe the best way to do this is as follows (assuming the bike is under warranty)

remove seat
unplug ecu
carefully connect a jumper wire to one of the pins (any one is OK)
carefully connect another jumper wire to another pin (it's ok if it tounches two or three pins)
attached the two jumper wires into the outlet socket of your home.
wait 30 seconds or until you smell something burning
remove the jumper wire and repeat at two different pin location.
then drop it off the roof just to "make sure"
reinstall ecu

Push your bike to the dealer and tell him the bike just died on the road and you think it might be the ecu

(Oh yeah and put your airbox in the oven at 500 degrees for 30 minutes and reinstall on bike before going in. Tell them they might want to check the airbox, too)
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  #110  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:04 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw

Maybe the best way to do this is as follows (assuming the bike is under warranty)

remove seat
unplug ecu
carefully connect a jumper wire to one of the pins (any one is OK)
carefully connect another jumper wire to another pin (it's ok if it tounches two or three pins)
attached the two jumper wires into the outlet socket of your home.
wait 30 seconds or until you smell something burning
remove the jumper wire and repeat at two different pin location.
then drop it off the roof just to "make sure"
reinstall ecu

Push your bike to the dealer and tell him the bike just died on the road and you think it might be the ecu

(Oh yeah and put your airbox in the oven at 500 degrees for 30 minutes and reinstall on bike before going in. Tell them they might want to check the airbox, too)

LOL
what a GREAT post
i LOVE it
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but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #111  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:11 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Spoke with my dealer this morning, I told him I'd rather have a new ECU than a new air-box, he'd rather change the ECU than the air-box but his hands are tied. He has to do what BMW says to do and that's a new air-box 1st. With the new air-box comes a new idle control motor (stepper motor). It's possible that could be the problem, but I doubt it. I really doubt the stepper motor will help the hesitation.
At least the process of fixing my problems has started. New air-box is ordered.
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  #112  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:18 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
Spoke with my dealer this morning, I told him I'd rather have a new ECU than a new air-box, he'd rather change the ECU than the air-box but his hands are tied. He has to do what BMW says to do and that's a new air-box 1st. With the new air-box comes a new idle control motor (stepper motor). It's possible that could be the problem, but I doubt it. I really doubt the stepper motor will help the hesitation.
At least the process of fixing my problems has started. New air-box is ordered.

we shall wait, PATIENTLY, together, my friend
i had a face-to-face conversation with the owner of my dealership and the service manager
30 minutes..... just the 3 of us
he'll be speaking DIRECLTY to BMW on monday

i hope that i get some satisfaction out of that meeting

again......
i've bought many bikes from them over the years and have always had a good relationship with them

one more thing
the owner took my GT out for a 50 mile ride the other day (with my permission)
BEFORE the new airbox was put in (in stock now/not installed yet)
and the bike didn't act up ONCE..... of course

he knows, only too well..... that the lack of problem doesn't mean the bike is "OK"

he agrees with your dealer that BMW is "tying his hands" to save money
so......
i don't expect my dealer to foot the cost of that new ECU
time will tell what happens next

thanks for your post
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2007 K1200GT
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live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #113  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:19 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

by the way.....
i hope that YOU can do a better job than ME with being patient
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Greg Savel
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live like you mean it...
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  #114  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:23 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
by the way.....
i hope that YOU can do a better job than ME with being patient
I've been dealing with it for 18,000 miles a few more won't matter
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  #115  
Old 06-02-2007, 01:26 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billg
I've been dealing with it for 18,000 miles a few more won't matter

a great attitude you have, my friend
an inspiration to this place

thanks for being here and commenting on your current issues with the GT
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2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #116  
Old 06-02-2007, 02:17 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

For what it's worth, I've heard the new 1098 has some idle problems as well...

Hate to imagine you getting BOTH BIKES and BOTH being unrideable! $30,000 worth of engineering crap.
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  #117  
Old 06-02-2007, 02:47 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
For what it's worth, I've heard the new 1098 has some idle problems as well...

Hate to imagine you getting BOTH BIKES and BOTH being unrideable! $30,000 worth of engineering crap.


the 1098 has WORSE 1st-year "teething" problems

1. a large percentage of the bike are STALLING..... not just at a light/at idle.... but, when decelerating..... the bike JUST DIES.... quite scary

new ECUs, etc for ducati as well

2. parts are falling off left and right..... NOTHING STRUCTURAL, but stuff is VIBRATING loose

3. disappointing rear-wheel horse power numbers on the dyno
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2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #118  
Old 06-02-2007, 03:38 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw
For what it's worth, I've heard the new 1098 has some idle problems as well...

Hate to imagine you getting BOTH BIKES and BOTH being unrideable! $30,000 worth of engineering crap.

The Ducati costs $30,000?
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  #119  
Old 06-02-2007, 03:44 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Miller
The Ducati costs $30,000?

his numbers were wrong

there are 3 different Ducati 1098 models

- base bike: 15K
- S model: 20K
- Tricolore/special edition S model: 25K

so... had i bought the Tricolore 1098, as originally planned.....
i'd have 50K of "engineering crap"..... in jcw's words
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Greg Savel
Clearwater, FL USA

2007 K1200GT
2011 R1200GS Adventure (now a SIDECAR RIG by DMC)

live like you mean it...
but take your family and friends along for the "ride"
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  #120  
Old 06-02-2007, 04:54 PM
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Re: 2007 K1200GT idles at 3,000 after 9.1 install and no new airbox

ducati has used magnetti marelli for many years

many consider the engine management systems by magnetti marelli
to be the best bar none

might they have problems from time to tome
i suppose so

most will find that its usually an errant sensor
as opposed to major sytem defect .... "flash" or soft ware
problem


good luck with your new 1098
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