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View Poll Results: Do you routinely warm up your bike before driving off?
Yes, essential to warm your bike properly. 49 40.16%
No, its just a waste of time and fuel. 73 59.84%
Voters: 122. You may not vote until 'registered'. Please go here: http://www.i-bmw.com/register.php

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  #61  
Old 02-10-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
I know this is being slightly snarky but... As I fired up the snowblower yesterday, I wondered about how long it was going to be before the tires came to full temperature.

How fast were you going? I guess it would be a matter of friction but I really have no idea?
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  #62  
Old 02-10-2017, 02:32 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

2 stroke or 4?

Lol.
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  #63  
Old 02-10-2017, 02:53 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Two stroke? Horrors!

B&S 5.5HP More HP would have helped with the slush masquerading as snow. As it was, it looked like I was extruding blocks of something unholy. Yech!
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  #64  
Old 02-10-2017, 04:36 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

As I fired up my car last Tuesday I was wondering how long it would take for the tires/wheels to warm up enough and shed the icy crust inside the wheels.120 miles of jumping/shaking from the out of balance.One icy wheel left by the time I got back.

Suspension? None since last week end.Icy crust in the wheel wells is about 1" from the tires.

Snowblower? Mine is chained up.
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  #65  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:31 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

So, what do we have here? Apparently a "debate" between folks who believe there are no potential issues if you start a cold engine and then immediately grip it and rip it, and folks who want to start their cold engines and then let them idle to warm up until they have just enough gas left in the tank to get to the nearest station so they can fill up for their ride.

Me? I'll continue to start a cold engine, let it run for a minute or two while I put my gloves on and the idle stabilizes and the oil fully circulates in the engine and starts warming up, and then ride away but take it easy until the engine fully comes up to operating temperature and I know everything is being properly lubricated. Then I'll grip it and rip it.
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  #66  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:16 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
Me? I'll continue to start a cold engine, let it run for a minute or two while I put my gloves on and the idle stabilizes and the oil fully circulates in the engine and starts warming up, and then ride away but take it easy until the engine fully comes up to operating temperature and I know everything is being properly lubricated. Then I'll grip it and rip it.

What he said..........
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  #67  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:20 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

When I read this in my K13S owners manual I wondered what kind of piece of crap can catch on fire from overheating? What a rotten design if it can't idle indefinitely, it's not like it's oil and air cooled. It's not that I want to leaving it idling, but it ought not be dangerous.

BeemerMikeTX has it right. I'm concerned about oil circulating fully before bringing it above idle, so I start it on the center stand or else straddling it and run it for a minute or so before riding away.

Quote:
Risk of fire
...
Cooling would be inadequate if the engine were allowed to idle for a lengthy period with the motorcycle at a standstill: overheating would result. In extreme cases, the motorcycle could catch fire. Do not allow the engine to idle unnecessarily. Ride away immediately after starting the engine.
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  #68  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:39 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I guess I'm the only one who gets on and goes like stink without regard of engine temp. Tire temp means more to me.
I'm guessing you were just stirring shit with this post. But at any rate, your bikes, having to lug you around, are probably thinking that warming up is the least of their problems.
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  #69  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:46 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

The coldest it's gets at my place is 2degreesC. The hottest so far is 47'C.
I roll the bike out of garage, with the key already turned on but not started. I am already dressed, geared up, helmet on. I climb on the bike, turn on my helmet, choose some music to listen to.
I start the bike and gently ride away until I get 3 bars on the temp gauge and that's it.
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  #70  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:32 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1DUDE
I'm guessing you were just stirring shit with this post. But at any rate, your bikes, having to lug you around, are probably thinking that warming up is the least of their problems.

Hey Jeff, GFY!

I might have been stirring the pot, but the fat guy joke is too much.
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  #71  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiMat
I start the bike and gently ride away until I get 3 bars on the temp gauge and that's it.

Same for me most of the time.
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  #72  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:02 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXdB
When I read this in my K13S owners manual I wondered what kind of piece of crap can catch on fire from overheating? What a rotten design if it can't idle indefinitely, it's not like it's oil and air cooled. It's not that I want to leaving it idling, but it ought not be dangerous.
I suspect it's the same concern that they had with the R1100RSL (lower fairing), the plastic fairing near the exhaust pipes would overheat and catch fire. Those pipes can get cherry-hot if the bike just sits and idles for a long period.
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  #73  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
let it idle 30 sec to 2 minutes depending on temp to let the oil get moving then drive away gently.
That's more or less what I do but don't consciously think about pre-warming. By the time I'm settled in the saddle and pedalling back down my driveway, I consider that is enough but don't push the revs hard until the temperature starts to move up.

The issue here is with the idle mixture. When cold the ECU is richening mixture and my argument is it is better to have the engine and CAT swept under partial load than let it sit at 1100 idle rpm to take forever to 'warm up'. Rich mixture usually means lower combustion temperatures, less heat and a greater risk of clog or coking. What do we mean by warm up anyway? When cold, the coolant thermostat should be closed and coolant flow bypassed. In bypass what you see on the gauge isn't representative of internal engine temperature. The cyl. head temperature sensor is what matters most and getting the heads hot to weaken mixture as soon as possible is more important. Also, remember there's a thermostat for oil circulating through the oil cooler and on cold starts that should be closed.

Rich mixtures on cold engines and incomplete combustion can wash down cylinder bores and reduce the effectiveness of lubrication. Water condensation withing the engine and oil will remain until the oil temperature gets to 100 degrees C. The quicker it gets there the sooner it boils off. If the oil temperature never gets there (short journey start stops) internal condensation will remain and build up. Even multigrade oils are less effective at lower temperatures. I think starting and running perhaps with slightly more revs in a lower gear and not laboring the motor is better than idling on the stand. Idling on the stand just makes you feel better to take off and hit the revs when in actual fact the engine needs a lot longer for all parts to stabilize their temperature.

All you have is a coolant temperature gauge. Gauges measuring oil temperature and cyl. head coolant temperature (ECU) would help you decide how to ride the bike after cold starting.
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  #74  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:50 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
I suspect it's the same concern that they had with the R1100RSL (lower fairing), the plastic fairing near the exhaust pipes would overheat and catch fire. Those pipes can get cherry-hot if the bike just sits and idles for a long period.

Ah ha, good point. Yes, that makes sense. I was thinking of the engine parts catching fire rather than static components, and this is the first fully faired bike I've ever had.
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  #75  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:40 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jargon
Ok, stupid question, what is the purpose of releasing the clutch on a sub 32F cold start even though you're in neutral?

Late but, well..

IMO the only pourpose is to lubricate inside the clutch, between the disks.
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  #76  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:33 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
I suspect it's the same concern that they had with the R1100RSL (lower fairing), the plastic fairing near the exhaust pipes would overheat and catch fire. Those pipes can get cherry-hot if the bike just sits and idles for a long period.

Er, you are joking, right?

Cherry-hot? As in glows cherry red? And that happens at what point of operation? Funny, doesn't seem to happen when running flat out. Idling: lower revs means fuel is burned less often means less heat in general means the exhaust manifold and header pipes and cat and muffler aren't heated as much as at WOT. As in police BMW's RT's (without water cooling and with) idling for extended periods and not going up in smoke. You are joking, right?
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  #77  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:39 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
Late but, well..

IMO the only pourpose is to lubricate inside the clutch, between the disks.

Not on a K1200RS/GT or any vehicle with a dry clutch.There is a lot of drag spinning the cold transmission/final drive even in neutral.Does the ECU/TVA compensate fast enough to prevent a stall from that excess drag? Not really on a brick engine. Figure that out....my 83 Toyota 4WD at minus 10C? May even stall the engine if I release the clutch too fast.

SOP to start any manual vehicle in cold weather.Goes back farther than I have been driving/riding in cold weather.Let me try to remember who ingrained that in me? Grandpa? Licensed as a mechanic in Quebec in 1928? My father?Mechanical engineer/class A mechanic? Or a lot of service calls(mine) at -20-30F?

K-bin fever.
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  #78  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:54 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Not on a K1200RS/GT or any vehicle with a dry clutch.

Yes Pierre, my bad. Wrong model, my comment was on the wet clutches lubricated with pressurized oil...

Thanks for the correction
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  #79  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:08 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
Er, you are joking, right?
Cherry-hot? As in glows cherry red?

Nope he ain't joke'n...without a fan blowing on the RS while synching the TB's, the header pipes do in fact "glow cherry red"...BTSIH...a fan's mandatory to prevent this...
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As of SEPT-2018,
'85K100RS,Original Owner,DOWN@*200,620*mi
**Parked in the living room, waiting for possible restore**
'03K1200GT, 4th Owner,55,480mi. To replace the '85
**Miles Ridden since owned: 24,910
'96R1100RS,3rd Owner,80,310mi.
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:16 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Not on a K1200RS/GT or any vehicle with a dry clutch.There is a lot of drag spinning the cold transmission/final drive even in neutral.

I've gotten in the habit of always engaging the clutch (on all clutch assisted vehicles, even "wet" types) when starting...just seems the "proper" procedure...others may disagree, yet works for me...
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As of SEPT-2018,
'85K100RS,Original Owner,DOWN@*200,620*mi
**Parked in the living room, waiting for possible restore**
'03K1200GT, 4th Owner,55,480mi. To replace the '85
**Miles Ridden since owned: 24,910
'96R1100RS,3rd Owner,80,310mi.
**Miles Ridden since owned: 49,510
'07 650 V-STROM, 2nd Owner, 38,125mi.
**Miles Ridden since owned: 10,350
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  #81  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:00 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBEmerson
Er, you are joking, right?

Cherry-hot? As in glows cherry red? And that happens at what point of operation? Funny, doesn't seem to happen when running flat out. Idling: lower revs means fuel is burned less often means less heat in general means the exhaust manifold and header pipes and cat and muffler aren't heated as much as at WOT. As in police BMW's RT's (without water cooling and with) idling for extended periods and not going up in smoke. You are joking, right?
As SKYGZR said, I'm not joking. If you let an R1100 engine sit and idle for more than a few minutes, the exhaust header pipes near the engine will glow cherry red. I also saw this on my K75S engine. I haven't tried to duplicate it on my K1300S or my Ducatis. No extended idling for me, at least not without a fan blowing air across the engine. When I sync the throttle bodies on my R1100RS, which requires extended idling, I set up a box fan to blow air across the engine, oil cooler, and exhaust pipes while I'm doing the work (although the engine itself will not overheat without the fan).
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  #82  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:11 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Risk of fire? Quite a few Rs were left running too long.Absent minded owners starting their bikes and? Phone rings or getting called inside? 1/2 hr later walk out and find a rather hot R? Hot enough that it stopped running?

And a recent one where the bike went into spontaneous combustion mode when parked overnight in the owner's garage.Parked with ignition off.....!

I miss the Proom...proom...proom....of the K1200RS idling in the yard as I wait for the oil cooler thermostat to open up and circulate the dirty oil out of it.So I can do a full oil change.Starting on a cool morning that is 12-15 minutes of idling before the thermostat opens.Not gonna sit there and wait so usually come inside and play on the net.And listen to the Proom...proom....proom through the K-bin log walls.
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  #83  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:28 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardo
Yes Pierre, my bad. Wrong model, my comment was on the wet clutches lubricated with pressurized oil...

Thanks for the correction

No problem but fill me/us in a little on the slant Ks clutch lubrication? If I understand it is all pressurized?

Wasn't uncommon back in the days to find seized clutch plates after storage.Lots of violent at times back & forth motions against the seized clutch as one worked the clutch could free them.Or a tow until the rear wheel stopped skidding.Never easy.....!Phew....I am too old for that kind of exercise.

So wet clutches sitting in an oil bath? Good idea to work the clutch lever and turn the clutch housing once in a while.Pressurized oiling system and long term storage?
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  #84  
Old 02-13-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

The only reason I can think a K1200 would self ignite or glow its headers cherry red is if the fans were faulty and didn't cut in? In stalled traffic My KRS can be idling a lot and relies on the fans to move air behind the plastics, but I accept it isn't something the bike really likes or is good for it.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:41 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
The only reason I can think a K1200 would self ignite or glow its headers cherry red is if the fans were faulty and didn't cut in? In stalled traffic My KRS can be idling a lot and relies on the fans to move air behind the plastics, but I accept it isn't something the bike really likes or is good for it.
The purpose and function of the fans is to to draw air through the radiator to cool the coolant (and the engine), and not to cool the exhaust pipes.
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  #86  
Old 02-13-2017, 08:26 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
The only reason I can think a K1200 would self ignite or glow its headers cherry red is if the fans were faulty and didn't cut in? In stalled traffic My KRS can be idling a lot and relies on the fans to move air behind the plastics, but I accept it isn't something the bike really likes or is good for it.

Oh they'll glow on the K1200RS. Remove the belly pan and start it at night, doesn't take long.
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  #87  
Old 02-13-2017, 09:46 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Oh yes they glow.....! But considering that some of them bikes are 20yrs old,how are your fuel lines?Prudent thing is a rather cheap replacement at? 11yrs in my case but I sure did the brake lines long before that.

Storage or sitting too long? Do not park next to a source of Ozone.
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:14 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Unless you are in Alaska and using straight weight oil (30 or higher) I see no reason to 'warm' it up by sitting. I don't believe warming it up hurts the engine...why/how could it?...I do see it wasting MONEY on fuel that is not moving the vehicle....
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
The only reason I can think a K1200 would self ignite or glow its headers cherry red is if the fans were faulty and didn't cut in? In stalled traffic My KRS can be idling a lot and relies on the fans to move air behind the plastics, but I accept it isn't something the bike really likes or is good for it.

Stick an exhaust valve and watch......the Norton did that once or twice when running 40 weight......switched to 20/50 GTX....
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:58 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Originally Posted by mikethebike61
Unless you are in Alaska and using straight weight oil (30 or higher) I see no reason to 'warm' it up by sitting. I don't believe warming it up hurts the engine...why/how could it?...I do see it wasting MONEY on fuel that is not moving the vehicle....
Let's see, spend a couple of cents worth of gas to limit wear on a cold motor, or let it wear out sooner than later and pay the bills to get things right. It's your bike, but I call it (borrowing from B. Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac) "penny wise and pound foolish".
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:38 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
So wet clutches sitting in an oil bath? Good idea to work the clutch lever and turn the clutch housing once in a while.Pressurized oiling system and long term storage?
Just my non official opinion...

Even if we have different types of clutches , is better if you let work it gentle and smooth in the first minutes of running, because is easier to the lubrication system. Also in dry clutches, or brake systems. a kind of example, if you wash the vehicle, brakes becomes rough and noisy due inmediate oxidation, then is better if you push and release gently the clutch (or brakes) lever to "polish" the surfaces again.

So my opinion about the OP: Must warm all the vehicle, not only the engine, in my experience I warm the engine a minute to let the oils fills all of places, and I move the bike with care until the engine temp in normal. in that way you have the bearings (as example) ready to use without damages
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:19 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Exactly.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:54 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Let's see, spend a couple of cents worth of gas to limit wear on a cold motor, or let it wear out sooner than later and pay the bills to get things right.
Gasoline engines are going out of date and pushing more pollution into the atmosphere just brings forwards the inevitable switch to cleaner automotive power and less dependency on fossil fuels.

The engine life of your next gasoline bike will be determined not by wear but increased Eco taxes on fuel, more stringent State emissions regulations, limits on what types of vehicles are allowed in congested cities and how much longer you expect to live.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:54 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Just for giggles, I did a little non-scientific experiment, just to see what temps the bike would actually see.

Ambient temp was 48F. I started the bike and immediately started driving, watching the temperature gauge. Before I could get out of the drive way, roughly 400 feet and maybe 10 seconds, the bike had already reached 90F. Another 2000' to the main road and the engine temperature had reached 120F. After riding roughly 25 miles the highest engine temp I saw was 197F and the lowest was 180F. I have only done this once so take that for what it was.

So my question is this: Do you feel that 120F is warm enough to "spread the oil" to all the nooks and crannies (forget just the moving parts) to protect your engine?

120F was the temp after less than a minute and 1/2 mile to get to the main road for me. In your experience, is that enough? Just curious.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:47 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I'd be good with that. Barring some design problem, oil is pressurized as it goes past nooks and crannies; if the oil's flowing well, life is good. :)

The point of waiting for the needle to start moving is to be sure the oil isn't as sluggish as it might otherwise be in low temps. Your comment about ambient temperature is worth a further thought: if the bike's been either sitting in direct sun, on a hot pavement, or ambient temps are (pulling a number out of thin air) 75+, I'd be inclined to think sluggish oil isn't a problem. I'd let the motor idle while getting the helmet and gloves on, and call it good. And I still would try to avoid winding the motor up until the needle has moved a bit. Can't hurt, might help. YMMV
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe

So my question is this: Do you feel that 120F is warm enough to "spread the oil" to all the nooks and crannies (forget just the moving parts) to protect your engine?


Hi Joe

IMUO yes, because if you use oils and greases as specified, they was designed for extremely low temperatures, specially multigrade oils.
By other side, the most important is to let oil separates the metals, as example between the conrod and crankshaft, and happens in fractions of second after you start the engine.

we always think in the engine, but this one is protected with the thermostat that increases the temperature almost immediately, Imagine the gearbox or final gear of your car when you ride at normal speed on a highway with rain and snow on the road, you can bet the gearbox oil is below zero c
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:45 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I always warm up vehicles and will continue. The longest period of time I have owned a vehicle is 18 yrs. No major repairs. Remember the same engineers that recommend no warm up also recommended no final drive oil change for life. How many final drive failures happened. I knew better than that and changed my final drive oil every other year. Same with warm up. You can listen to someone else or do what you know is right.
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:55 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I think you can get caught following old principles because engines now under ECU computer control using modern lubricants perform a lot differently. Emmission control, recycling of engine fumes and condensation is not a good thing for cold engines and the faster they warm up the better. Emission control and fuelling ratios usually monitor cylinder head coolant temperature. Our bikes don't have the same systems as modern cars yet. But read about exhaust gas recirculation valves (EGR's) and the problems those give on vehicles used for frequent cold starts and short journeys.

How long does a K12 need to idle on the stand to reach the same internal temperature as when ridden gently? Under load I would expect the warm up time to be a lot shorter and better for the engine?

The life of a modern vehicles depends less on engine wear mileage, but more on deep pockets to keep the engine management electronics working and changing designs to meet environmental regulations.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:46 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Well, there is the ECU on the KRS and, I hope, people are using something beyond straight Castrol caster bean oil. NTS, letting the motor run at least while gearing up isn't a bad thing.

Short runs, with condensation, as you say say, are a Bad Thing. Compounds in the exhaust stream dissolve in the condensed moisture and turn into ugly, exhaust pipe eating acids.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:29 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Just for giggles, I did a little non-scientific experiment, just to see what temps the bike would actually see.

Ambient temp was 48F. I started the bike and immediately started driving, watching the temperature gauge. Before I could get out of the drive way, roughly 400 feet and maybe 10 seconds, the bike had already reached 90F. Another 2000' to the main road and the engine temperature had reached 120F. After riding roughly 25 miles the highest engine temp I saw was 197F and the lowest was 180F. I have only done this once so take that for what it was.

So my question is this: Do you feel that 120F is warm enough to "spread the oil" to all the nooks and crannies (forget just the moving parts) to protect your engine?

120F was the temp after less than a minute and 1/2 mile to get to the main road for me. In your experience, is that enough? Just curious.

i am going to guess that was water temperature you were watching. oil temp, the temp that matters, significantly lags water temp in getting up to "speed". i watch this all the time in my race car and truck which have accurate digital water and oil temp gauges. some bmw M cars have a variable rev limiter that is based on oil temp. computer limits the "yee ha" until the oil, not water, is ready for it. heck, modern bmw cars don't even have a water temp gauge any more, they have an oil temp gauge instead.


and yes. the quickest way to warm up an engine properly is to ride/drive it gently for a bit. just sitting in a driveway idling ain't gonna do much good.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:40 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlytle
i am going to guess that was water temperature you were watching. oil temp, the temp that matters, significantly lags water temp in getting up to "speed". i watch this all the time in my race car and truck which have accurate digital water and oil temp gauges. some bmw M cars have a variable rev limiter that is based on oil temp. computer limits the "yee ha" until the oil, not water, is ready for it. heck, modern bmw cars don't even have a water temp gauge any more, they have an oil temp gauge instead.


and yes. the quickest way to warm up an engine properly is to ride/drive it gently for a bit. just sitting in a driveway idling ain't gonna do much good.

Yes, from the manual, this was the coolant temperature reading.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:15 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

As i was thinking and reflecting o how they do it in MotoGP. Friday morning they fire up the bike and let it idle for a bit before playing with the throttle. If an expensive bike like that does it then perhaps it is of no consequence that we do it on our road bikes. I still stand by "more rpm's equals which means more combustion which is heat and then more heat means any given part is warmed quicker." I don't mean to say "get on and wring out your gears" but gentle riding until the fan comes on is about my mark.
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:17 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

90k on the motor and never let it warm. don't start until it hits the floor in the spring. don't even warm the new bikes either. like everyone pretty much states it takes too long to get the engine actually warm. only time i let it run for a little bit is when it's been on the side stand for a long time and i get the always common extra oil smoke. but that is merely an extra minute or 2 at the most. once the temp comes up check how fast it gets to 100 mph
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Old 02-27-2017, 06:44 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

[quote=bernardo]Hi Joe

IMUO yes, because if you use oils and greases as specified, they was designed for extremely low temperatures, specially multigrade oils.
By other side, the most important is to let oil separates the metals, as example between the conrod and crankshaft, and happens in fractions of second after you start the engine. ...quote]

I think that is the key Bernardo and the warmup thing originates from the days when engine tolerances were 3 -4 times greater than they are now. Warm up was necessary to close the gaps to operating conditions. Personally I don't ride off straight away but coast down my driveway in neutral, engine running and 50 meters down the road I snick it into second and ride off.
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Something to keep in mind: No matter what the viscosity grade of the oil (5W-40, 0W-30, 20W-50), the oil is ALWAYS thicker (more viscous) and flowing slower at 60F (or 50F or 40F) than it is at 200F. And the oil pressure is higher at 4,000 rpm than it is at 1,200 rpm. Your engine needs a good film of oil between the moving parts (crankshaft bearings, cam lobes, etc.) to prevent wear and damage.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:50 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
Something to keep in mind: No matter what the viscosity grade of the oil (5W-40, 0W-30, 20W-50), the oil is ALWAYS thicker (more viscous) and flowing slower at 60F (or 50F or 40F) than it is at 200F. And the oil pressure is higher at 4,000 rpm than it is at 1,200 rpm. Your engine needs a good film of oil between the moving parts (crankshaft bearings, cam lobes, etc.) to prevent wear and damage.

I asked earlier and will ask again. How long does it take to coat the moving parts? One revolution? Five, 100? A thousand revolutions?
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:10 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

All those revs happen in about a minute; the point's moot. It isn't going to hurt to let the engine idle for long enough to finish the last couple of tasks before leaving. Maybe it helps, maybe not. So what?

This horse is dead and drawing flies.

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Old 03-07-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I asked earlier and will ask again. How long does it take to coat the moving parts? One revolution? Five, 100? A thousand revolutions?
Within 15 seconds of start-up the oil pump will get oil to the furthest reaches of the engine (e.g., camshafts), but it will be "cold" oil. The goal is NOT to just "coat" the moving parts. For some moving parts (crankshaft bearings, rod bearings) oil under pressure has to sustain the gap between the moving parts, and for other moving parts (camshaft lobes) the oil has to thoroughly coat the moving parts and not be worn off. Oil at operating temperature does this best. Cold oil does this less well. So the trade-off at cold start-up is getting the oil (and engine) up to operating temperature as quickly as possible while not exceeding the ability of cold oil to provide the needed lubrication. Long warm-up extends the time the engine runs with "cold" oil, while immediate grip it and rip it exceeds the ability of cold oil to lubricate the faster moving parts.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:44 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
Within 15 seconds of start-up the oil pump will get oil to the furthest reaches of the engine (e.g., camshafts), but it will be "cold" oil. The goal is NOT to just "coat" the moving parts. For some moving parts (crankshaft bearings, rod bearings) oil under pressure has to sustain the gap between the moving parts, and for other moving parts (camshaft lobes) the oil has to thoroughly coat the moving parts and not be worn off. Oil at operating temperature does this best. Cold oil does this less well. So the trade-off at cold start-up is getting oil up to operating temperature as quickly as possible while not exceeding the ability of cold oil to provide the needed lubrication. Long warm-up extends the time the engine runs with "cold" oil, while immediate grip it and rip it exceeds the ability of cold oil to lubricate the faster moving parts.

This is the shittiest oil thread ever!

I think the chemistry behind oil as a protectant and lubricant is against you here.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:46 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Originally Posted by justjoe
This is the shittiest oil thread ever!

I think the chemistry behind oil as a protectant and lubricant is against you here.
Physics is a byatch. 😉
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

I usually ride older bikes and if I don't warm them up, they could stall at a bad time. Only a min or two will do it, but I have noticed a large difference with and with out warming up first.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:59 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

10/40 or 15/50 should move well enough...assuming it is not 05 degrees....in those cases I let it run while I put on the hard hat and gloves...
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:32 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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10/40 or 15/50 should move well enough...assuming it is not 05 degrees....in those cases I let it run while I put on the hard hat and gloves...
Should move well enough for what?
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:20 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Should move well enough for what?

To circulate.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:22 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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To circulate.
Well, yes, the oil will "circulate". But that is not really the question/issue.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:21 AM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

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Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX
Well, yes, the oil will "circulate". But that is not really the question/issue.

Isn't it? Oil is designed specifically to ease friction and wear of moving parts. Modern oils are formulated with special additives which adhere to surfaces reducing friction at "operating temperature" and at startup. The quality of these lubricating chemicals are not significantly decreased due to temperature as has been assumed in this thread. Hence, chemistry is against you!

The range of efficiency on motor oils is listed on the carton and can easily be looked up. For example, the pour point for Mobil 1 5w30 is -42C. Pretty low. But another factor is how efficient the motor is at pushing the oil around at low temperatures. I would wager that nobody on this site rides their motorcycles anywhere near the limits of our motors, the motor oils used or any other "physics" related issues which may occur.

Science, scientists, experts in combustion engines and every other quantifiable measurement says warming up an engine is pointless. But, to each their own. Do what makes you feel good.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:41 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Been resisting chiming in on this thread, but ignoring my better judgement now...

The point for warming up an engine is not just for getting the oil to temp (especially with modern multi-weight oils). It's just that oil temp is the best indicator we have for knowing when it's ready to be stomped.

The bigger concern is tolerances in the engine. Certain parts are designed and manufactured to be proper shape/size at operating temp. For instance, many pistons are actually oval at ambient temps and only become round when hot. As you might imagine, you want to minimize the time a motor spends below operating temp because of the excess wear that occurs when out of tolerance, and you also don't want to put a big load on it during that time. Therefore, the usual recommendation is not to warm the motor by idling (takes too long), but don't hammer it either.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingiron
Been resisting chiming in on this thread, but ignoring my better judgement now...

The point for warming up an engine is not just for getting the oil to temp (especially with modern multi-weight oils). It's just that oil temp is the best indicator we have for knowing when it's ready to be stomped.

The bigger concern is tolerances in the engine. Certain parts are designed and manufactured to be proper shape/size at operating temp. For instance, many pistons are actually oval at ambient temps and only become round when hot. As you might imagine, you want to minimize the time a motor spends below operating temp because of the excess wear that occurs when out of tolerance, and you also don't want to put a big load on it during that time. Therefore, the usual recommendation is not to warm the motor by idling (takes too long), but don't hammer it either.

Listen buddy, don't come in here with your common sense approach! There ain't no tolerance for it!
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Every engineering paper I have ever read on late model gas ICE says to drive away when cold...this is presuming you have the correct oil....my son has a 2017 BMW M-4.....the software limits the rpm to something like 6000 until the oil is up to temp. The engine will spend more time and rpm sitting as it warms than it does driving slowly for a mile or two. These engines are aluminum block/piston which has the same thermal expansion rate, quite unlike the iron/piston of a 427 Chevy. Therefore the piston to cylinder wall clearance should be closer and the argument that you need to get the parts warmed up so they will be the proper size is not nearly as important as it once was.

Do I think it matters over the life of a motorcycle? Probably not. The 77 XLCH has 100,000 on the top end and 200,000 on the rest. When I had the heads off it still had hash marks on the cylinder walls (ALL the way around). You care to talk about large clearances that thing is cast iron cylinders/heads air cooled with the rear cylinder blocked from direct air flow. Except during the dead of winter I only allow it to warm up for as long as it takes to put the hardhat and gloves on, then just take it easy until the rocker boxes are warm to the touch.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:53 PM
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Re: Warming Up Your Bike: Essential or Waste of Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Isn't it?
No, it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Oil is designed specifically to ease friction and wear of moving parts. Modern oils are formulated with special additives which adhere to surfaces reducing friction at "operating temperature" and at startup. The quality of these lubricating chemicals are not significantly decreased due to temperature as has been assumed in this thread. Hence, chemistry is against you!

The range of efficiency on motor oils is listed on the carton and can easily be looked up. For example, the pour point for Mobil 1 5w30 is -42C. Pretty low. But another factor is how efficient the motor is at pushing the oil around at low temperatures. I would wager that nobody on this site rides their motorcycles anywhere near the limits of our motors, the motor oils used or any other "physics" related issues which may occur.
But the viscosity (thickness) of the oil DOES increase with decreasing temperature. Although a 5W-40 oil will not be as thick at 50 F as a straight 40W, it will be thicker at 50 F than it will be at 200 F. Which means it will not pump through the engine as readily at 50 F as it will at 200 F. Modern engines are designed to operate (efficiently) at a specific temperature (or narrow range) and the oil is selected for that range and engine design. That's why Porsche doesn't make air-cooled engines any more. So, while the oil will lubricate adequately when the oil and engine are at 50 F, it won't lubricate as well as when the oil and engine are at the design 200 F.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
Science, scientists, experts in combustion engines and every other quantifiable measurement says warming up an engine is pointless. But, to each their own. Do what makes you feel good.
Yes, letting the engine sit and idle until it reaches operating temperature is pointless (and potentially damaging), but likewise running WFO before the oil and engine have reached operating temperature is also potentially damaging.
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